At the outset, we have all given our views on air as well as through various medias. Has any one bothered to read the 123 document or the Hyde document. No. So in what capacity are u people blurting out without knowing the facts. We indians have the same old way of bending our heads b4 the whites even after 1/2 a decade of independence. We have come a long way from the perils of being subjected to harsh treatments by the colonial empires. We have so far indigeniously developed nuclear reactors and arms which we are put into use in our daily life. When the first and the future nuclear test were conducted, neither the US nor the Russians were aware that this was going on despite having sophisticated satelites all over the space. Now if we are forced to sign the nuclear deal which of interest not only to US but also to other nuclear nations precisely 45 nos. then we will have to open up our installations to the scrutiny of the these nations and all the secrecy shrouded will be opened up. In view of the above, we need to have the patience to wait for a few years and we will be self reliant.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Cyber Guy on Jul 12, 2008 01:32 AM Permalink
Syam,Why do think we are bending to the whites?? This deal has a lot of advantages for India in the longer run.Have you ever seen our PM so stubborn in this 4 years of rule.The reason why he is so rigid for the deal is he knows the advantages of the deal.Leave out the poor and the uneducated Indians,atleast we educated Indians should atleast be able to see the pros of the deal.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 01:42 AM Permalink
Biggest pro would be that US would pass a India Specific Agreement to supply our nuclear power plants with the required fuel & technology without subjecting our military nuclear facilities to inspection. This is contrary to their own Hyde Act. This statement recognizes India as a responsible nuclear power which is not signatory to NPT or CTBT.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 03:02 AM Permalink
N-deal doesnt ensure even 10% of total required electricity then from where these tall claims of industrialization and employment generation coming up?
RE:Nuclear Deal
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 02:08 AM Permalink
By having enough electricity for the masses and industrial development. Only industrialization can create employment and feed the large population of India.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:00 AM Permalink
Still hypothetical though, do you think USA would ensure supply the uninterrupted supply? Do you think India would be able to continue with its FBR development program under inspection regime? But still if we believe this to happen in India's favor how does economically India get benefited?
RE:Nuclear Deal
by viswanatha seshadri on Jul 12, 2008 01:35 AM Permalink
India has nothing to hide, strategically, or scientifically. India has already declared it will do first strike with her atomic arsenal. In atomic research and energy, collaboration with all other countries will only help india and the world at large.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by kavitha on Jul 12, 2008 01:32 AM Permalink
arey mallu lungi wala, kerala is almost spoiled by communists. do some thing to save ur commis own land
How much electricity will be generated and at what cost? What will be the total investment and what will be the output? Some stupids onthis board think that after the deal they are going to run their car and bikes on nuclear power. N-deal will not reduce the demand of petroleum in the country and nor the petrol will go cheaper.
RE:Myths!!
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 02:02 AM Permalink
There is shortage of electricity in India today even though India uses lot less power per capita than the developed nations. Once our lifestyle changes and even present materialistic boom reaches the masses then what will happen to our energy requirement.
During 1973 Oil embargo west had taken a step to go nuclear but that was stopped short by environmentalists except in France.
In India people do not plan for future, they only plan for tommorrow. This deal is for the future.
RE:RE:Myths!!
by Cyber Guy on Jul 12, 2008 02:07 AM Permalink
well said AK.Many people in the forum dont have the sense to see the future benefits.They just seem to think about how are they going to be benefited immediately.In general we do not think about the future which is why we always lag behind superpowers like US,Japan,UK.
RE:RE:RE:Myths!!
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 02:15 AM Permalink
This is the reason west conquered India Even though India had everything they lacked planners.
RE:RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:05 AM Permalink
Hmm.. how much power it plans to generate in future and how will it meet the demands? And most importantly at what cost? Future is of bio-fuels and renewable energy sources this is where whole world is investing.
RE:Myths!!
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 02:14 AM Permalink
World has been talking about renewable enrgy sources for the last fifty years but to date no success. Water, Solar, Wind and now Bio-Fuels. Do we have ebough land to cultivate Bio-Fuels as well as food for the table. Niclear is here others may be there. Pick one today either as a source or as insurance policy. You decide.
RE:RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:17 AM Permalink
Biofuels and biodiesel sources can be grown in oceans also. For your kind information in last 30 yrs USA has not added a single megawatt electricity produced by Nuclear material. However it has doubled its bio-ethanol production in last 3-4 years. Just give a search on different renewable energy sources and the electricity being produced by them in all over the world and compare it to the nuclear energy and tell me the statistics.
RE:RE:RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:31 AM Permalink
its not about land. Infact a single nuclear plant will utilize vast land plus a huge amount of land will be unusable if you dig deep their waste. So land is limiting factor in all the resources. But biofuels can be produced from biomass of Sea. Solar and wind energy dont need large establishment compare to nuclear reactors and nor they are rquired to worry about waste disposal.
RE:Myths!!
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 02:25 AM Permalink
US has lot of land that is not being used for cultivation and istead farmers are paid not to grow. That id not the case with India. India became a power only because it became self sufficient in food (whatever little) and did not need to import. USSR crumbled because of lack of food.
US did not increase its nuclear energy because of environmentalists, but it is restarting nuclear energy.
RE:Myths!!
by Cyber Guy on Jul 12, 2008 01:39 AM Permalink
hey hiral,get your facts rights before even saying others are fool...You think that Oil is used only to run cars and bikes in our country..That explains about you..Oil is used in 100's of different ways in our country which is obviously going to be very expensive in the coming years..so nothing wrong in signing this deal.
RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:52 AM Permalink
I know where petroleum is used in our country and nuclear energy can not replace the petroleum anywhere except electricity production where its not being used much. So the stupids on this forum who are spreading that after N-deal the prices will go down because petrol will go cheaper or we wont need petrol is baseless. My facts are in place and sound. Check yours!!!
RE:Myths!!
by Cyber Guy on Jul 12, 2008 02:05 AM Permalink
You should understand that this Nuclear energy will be tapped and used for most of our electrical needs which is going to be vital.yes petrol will not be cheaper immediately,but definitely our dependance towards the arab nations will decrease which is good.
RE:RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:14 AM Permalink
For your kind information after billions of dollars of investment N-energy will not make up more than 10% of our electricity requirments.
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 01:32 AM Permalink
take a calculator and do the calculations yourself. it's not wise to listen to what experts say, after all
RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:36 AM Permalink
I did and concluded that country is being cheated in the names of great benefits. But one thing is clear socalled supporters of deal dont know a single technical detail about deal which is very very beneficial for the country.
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 01:54 AM Permalink
hiral - well, if you do know all the technical details of the deal and conclude that the deal is detrimental to india, then what's the point in having discussion on this MB? shoot out a letter to MMS or join the BJP and go on to the streets. you will only find supporters of the deal on this MB.
RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:02 AM Permalink
No infact there are lot who doesnt support the deal and most of the supporters are just supporting under the euphoria and not on the basis of facts. I thought you would point out the benefits and cost effectiveness of the deal in our favor.
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 02:55 AM Permalink
i underestimated your patriotism and intelligence. you are too smart. i don't have any other deal benefits to be listed for you, sorry.
Only today I came to know that MMS, Kakodkar and Kalam are not patriotic as you.
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 02:11 AM Permalink
as for the cost effectiveness you already did ur calculations and you even concluded too.
as for the benefits - there are numerous - the biggest benefit is India will be on Global stage to act. If that doesn't ring a bell or if you think what's the use to be on global stage - then i really can't explain each and every detail on this MB. Today, millions of people wait in qs around the world to just visit USA and this deal is going to make India get closer to USA. What this means is the people of India can look for a better and good future in the long term. in order for the benefits to truly take shape .. one need to wait for 50 years. these are not short term benefits which u will see in the next couple of years. that's why this deal is very important for both India, USA and for the rest of the world too. That's another reason why all G8 countries are supporting it.
RE:RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 02:35 AM Permalink
India doesnt need a deal to go on global stage. Its already there since 11th May 1998. To go closer to USA signing the deal should not be a condition. G8 countries are supporting it because they want access of IAEA in to Indian nuclear establishment. I got your point that you want India to play USA's fiddle for the sake of their support and protection but many self-esteemed and patriotic Indians dont like it that way. USA wants tobe frnd of India then it should be without any conditions or deals.
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 02:18 AM Permalink
imagine when your neighbors keep on bugging you for petty and small issues and making your life miserable and you even thinking of leaving and going some where else. Then one day you met a powerful political leader who goes to your neighbor and settles the problems. How much better your life will be now? you can concentrate more now on your work instead of wasting your energies on your irritant neighbor. Imagine this situation at a country level. i hope u got the point
RE:Myths!!
by west on Jul 12, 2008 05:36 AM Permalink
what kind of patriotism is it when some one knows there's an alternative and still compromises with a detrimental agreement? this is called patriotism in your vocabulary?
RE:Myths!!
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 03:06 AM Permalink
Putting MMS in the list of Kalamji and Kakodkar is their insult. And I dont want your certificate for my patriotism either. Kalam and Kakodkar are supporting the deal for two reasons one is to get uranium supply for our N-plants and another is strategic proximity to USA but solution for both can be worked out and none of them are in position to direct govt for the alternative-and therefore both had agreed for the deal in present scenario. However kalam had advocated even National river Grid too but that is conviniently scrapped by patriotic MMS.
But for the fact that the International Atomic Energy Agency -- like many other UN watchdog bodies -- leaks like a sieve, we would still have been ignorant of the contents of the draft safeguards agreement submitted by the UPA Government for circulation among IAEA Governors for their approval. The Government of India, it is obvious, is yet to recognise the power of the Internet and realise the importance of transparency at home instead of obsessive secrecy. But even if there had been a tradition of transparent governance -- look at the remarkable way policies are framed in the US -- the Government would have been reluctant to make the draft of the proposed safeguards agreement with the IAEA public. On the contrary, it would have exerted -- as it has done -- to keep it a secret, just as it has been less than forthcoming about the fineprint of the proposed India-US civilian nuclear cooperation agreement ever since it was first mooted on July 18, 2005. Sure, the Prime Minister has on various occasions made statements in Parliament on this issue; in retrospect, on none of these occasions has he been upfront. Doubts and apprehensions raised by parliamentarians were brushed aside as being 'unfounded'; questions asked by scientists were studiedly ignored as being 'irrelevant'. Yet, with the unveiling of the draft safeguards agreement, those 'unfounded' doubts and apprehensions have come true and the 'irrelevant' questions have been answered: The UPA Government has led India into a b
RE:read
by indianpatriot on Jul 12, 2008 01:15 AM Permalink
The UPA Government has led India into a binding commitment that has little to do with the production of civilian nuclear energy and everything to do with bringing us within the restrictive framework of nuclear non-proliferation. The 'deal' is not about liberating India from the clutches of wayward oil-producing nations and the vagaries of fossil fuel, but binding us to the interests of the non-proliferation lobby and the business interests of the nuclear power industry.
RE:read
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:19 AM Permalink
Absolutely agree. The original idea for nuclear cooperation coined during NDA regime where actual intention was strategic partnership with USA. This deal makes a lot more commitment on our part than USA.
RE:read
by Cyber Guy on Jul 12, 2008 01:51 AM Permalink
Do you think BJP is opposing this deal because its harmful to India?? Advani opposes it so that IF he becomes the next PM he wants to operationalise it and take credit.Thats the sole reason BJP is opposing it. Even Vajpayee has lend his support to this deal indirectly. And the reason the left(aka chinese spies) reject it is because they dont want India to get closer with US which will make their homeland(China) more vulnerable.
Atleast we Indians should not see it in a political manner and see the real cause.
You think Manmohan singh and a bunch of scientists who approved this deal from the Indian side are fools?
Manmohan Singh inviting new East India Company to take over India. Anyhow, MM Singh praised the British for invading, colonising and ruling India for 190 years, when he was offered a honorary doctor degree by the Oxford or Cambridge Univ. He has already made history by sending a draft Text to IAEA, as a minority govt, humiliating a billion plus people. He is PM only for his Italian master and her Congress party, not for the nation and its 1 billion plus people. He have scant regards for these 1 billion brown and dark skined people. Text for IAEA can only be read by white-skined west, and dark and brown Indians have no right on it. Congress party said, its nuclear terrorism to show this text publicly. Wow, now we can download it from across the world. We all truned into nuclear terrorists. What a wonderful India we live today under firangee raj.
RE:Manmohan Singh inviting new East India Company
by Surabi Khan on Jul 12, 2008 01:57 AM Permalink
Heeey don't you dare to say that!! It was the East India Company that trained, Brain washed and appointed Mr. Man Mohan Singh as Prime Minister.
News Reporter: Madam what is you opinion on Nuclear Issue. Maino Antonia: It is a 'new' product which 'clears' the dishes..
She'll have to take some classes to understand it, or even speak technical terms. After living n India(That too Delhi) for 45 years she can't speak Hindi. I doubt with that level of intelligence she'll even dare to open her mouth on nuclear issue... What if
RE:Reporter Talks to Maino Antonia
by Albert Adibadla on Jul 12, 2008 01:57 AM Permalink
CAN ANY BJP LEADER SPEAK ONE SCENTENCE OF SANSKRIT... OR DECENT ENGLISH OR 1 SCENTENCE OF FRENCH OR URDU OR ANY OTHER LANGUAGE THAN THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE...
RE:Reporter Talks to Maino Antonia
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:28 AM Permalink
Yes marrying a person who turned to be the son of PM of India and later PM of India is a great achievement and misusing his position to protect her friends in Bofors scam is quite an achievement.
RE:Reporter Talks to Maino Antonia
by Indian Indian on Jul 12, 2008 01:54 AM Permalink
I did my Engineering from Bengal, some friends says I beat a Bangali in Bangali...I was 3 months in Hyderabad atleast I learnt counting in Telgu..We are even talking on this forum so that means we have some intelligence..Imagine if Maino was not married to a PM what would she be doing ??
RE:RE:Reporter Talks to Maino Antonia
by ajay singh on Jul 12, 2008 02:15 AM Permalink
resturant mey bardhan do rahi hoti, ya kishi ke sath gulchharey uda rahi hoti; yaha aakar kam se kam thodi tamij to sikh gayi; aur hamari thokna bhi
RE:Reporter Talks to Maino Antonia
by ajay singh on Jul 12, 2008 02:13 AM Permalink
befitting reply Bharat kr. jee, these idoits will loitre before sonia GANDI
A history where a Prime Minister is a puppet of a foreigner...A history where the Prime Minister who keeps hesitating acts with a jerk once President Bush is in sight... A Prime Minister who has two President, one in India and one in the US.. A history where a senior Minister tells lies.. A history where even the Prime Minister tells lies to the nation.. A history where the Prime Minister consistently cheats the Parliament members and the Indian nationals.. A history where the Government says something to be a classified document and cannot be given to Indians, but everyone in the US is publishing it on the internet.. A history, where a senior minister like Pranab says that they will go to the Parliament first and then to the IAEA, but the Prime Minister does the exact opposite.. This is the result of giving the control of our Mother Nation to a white Italian (When will we come out of the slave mentality; being slaves to white-skinned people?)
RE:For Bharat Ratna, Vajpayee please stand up and be counted !
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 12, 2008 01:03 AM Permalink
- Don't make the same mistake that you did before independence, during freedom struggle.
RE:For Bharat Ratna, Vajpayee please stand up and be counted !
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 01:06 AM Permalink
Vajpayee has to speak through Brajesh Mishra. So we should understand his predicament.
Probably he will diplomatically not turn up to vote citing health problems
RE:For Bharat Ratna, Vajpayee please stand up and be counted !
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:12 AM Permalink
During his rule he stoodup and roared by exploding nuclear devices which prior lame-duck govts failed to do so he doesnt need to be counted this time.
RE:For Bharat Ratna, Vajpayee please stand up and be counted !
by Gautam Dasaka on Jul 12, 2008 01:11 AM Permalink
Only the Congress and CPM togeather can give us a clean government with out corruption, and violence like it happened in Nandigram.
RE:For Bharat Ratna, Vajpayee please stand up and be counted !
by Indian Indian on Jul 12, 2008 01:11 AM Permalink
Read and understand carefully. BJP is not against the deal. Vajpayee is the father of the deal. It is the Hyde Act provisions which they are opposing
Dear all US haters - u r nothing but commies! u have intelligence of a kid and are trying to show yourself to be smart. lets pull some facts and lets see your answers. US as a country has never let a single allie down. they have always come out in open and helped their allies in whatever extreme or uncomfortable the circumstances might be - Kuwait, Israel, UK, Japan, Taiwan, (sadly pakistan) etc they have fought wars for these allies - destroying countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. there is a famous english saying 'when u need to choose between an intelligent enemy and a foolish friend, always choose the enemy!' because a foolish friend can let u down anytime, anywhere, without logic.
we are so upset with this tieup - this is kids behaviour. we are using stuff made by USA (cars, aeroplance, health technology) but do not want t a reactor (that will increase our energy production by double) because it is 'anti muslim?' only Communist, Fundamentalist Radicals and pro-pakistan, pro-china groupls will oppose this deal. if ever u do not like the deal, get the reactor, operationalise it and break the deal on one-context-or-the -other! yes there will be international backlash but it's better than having no reactor (no power, no industrialisation). please understand, if we leave the deal, we will depend on gulf oil and will never be able to fight the islamic terrorism because of their support to terrorist organistation. in any case our oil money goes to saudis and in turn
RE:USA - a friend and not foe
by Bharat Kr on Jul 12, 2008 01:19 AM Permalink
Nobody is hating US. Why shall we? We are hating our own govt and parties, thats our right. We have nothing to do with US. We earn our food to eat, we don't depend on US. On business ground, US needs India more than India needs US. We India provide the world's second largest market, so nobody can discount us.
RE:USA - a friend and not foe
by hiral joshi on Jul 12, 2008 01:31 AM Permalink
Thats true. And moreover we should pray to god that we wont need USA in future to protect us from our enemies.
RE:USA - a friend and not foe
by SSS on Jul 12, 2008 03:17 AM Permalink
there is a famous saying 'common sence is not common' your reply really shows that. if somebosy does not agree with u then that person is 'wrong'. buddy, this logic is primitive and people possessing this logic are left behind in 3rd world. time is to move on, be realistic and adapt to changing times. USA is 'not begging to sell this technology'. they have a bigger threat from China and want India to be a strong future ally and secondly, USA is systematically shifting big & growing countries like India from OIL to Non-Oil sources of energy to lower/dilute the importance of Gulf Nations. thats a long term strategy which ordinary minds like you will find hard to understand. luckily u r not MMS and that man is a visionary to set this ball rolling under a very able guidance of PVN Rao in yr 1991 for which India is reapping fruits today.
RE:USA - a friend and not foe
by Guest on Jul 12, 2008 01:39 AM Permalink
Yes, Congress go ahead and operationalize the deal before the next elections and approve all the contracts to stock pile the nuclear fuel (atleast for a $trillion) otherwise swiss banks will not lend you any money for your next elections.
WHAT IS THE NEW THING IN IT. SIR YOU HAD ALREADY CREATED HISTORY BY AGRREING TO BE THE HEAD CLERK OF CONGRESS PARTY.YOU ARE STANDING ON BEHALF OF SONIA GANDHI AND DO WHATEVER SHE TELLS YOU TO DO.COME ON SIR ,DO SOMETHING NEW.WHY NOT TRY TO FIGHT FOR A SEAT IN THE NEXT ELECTIONS AND CREAT A HISTORY BY WINNING THAT.AND I THOUGHT THAT A TEACHER HAVE MORAL AND ETHICS TO SHOW . YOU HAVE CREATED HISTORY BY BEING A TITULAR HEAD AND DISAPPOINTED US, YOUR STUDENTS SIR.
RE:We are in process of making history: PM
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 01:02 AM Permalink
Now that the deal is a fait accompli with even Barack Obama supporting it, and prospects of UPA losing the trust vote receding by the minute, knickerwallahs and commies appear so crest fallen that all they can do is write insults and abuses.
RE:We are in process of making history: PM
by appalachiaworld on Jul 12, 2008 01:05 AM Permalink
I THINK I HAVE NOT MENTIONED ANY KNICKERWALAS OR COMMIES .ITS BETWEEN A STUDENT AND A TEACHER.
RE:We are in process of making history: PM
by Bharat Kr on Jul 12, 2008 01:20 AM Permalink
And you showing sweet words of love and compassion. Wake up man, look at your own words. Are they words of love?
People who keep mocking at the deal will really get to understand the benefits after 5 years.Manmohan singh has stood tall against the Left(aka chinese spies) to make this historic deal happen.People should understand its not a deal between US and India,it actually opens India to many other countries(franc,Russia,Canada..)to get Nuclear supply.I know the BJP will try to make this as a political issue and garner votes.Commies are shouting that this government has not anything to stop Inflation..Inflation is at a all time high in many countries..Hope the government does something to control it..But let me make it clear..Inflation and the nuclear deal should not be drawn together.
Once again salutes to Dr Manmohan Singh who has really taken India to the next level.
