Quickly ;-) Yajur veda is of two type Krishna and sukla. Krishna Yajur veda Tythireeya samhita has 48 modules. One module is Sree Rudram another one is Chamakoottam (chamakam) both dedicated to Lord Shiva. 8th Anuvaka of Sree Rudram 10th line says, Namas"Shivayacha" Shivatarayacha.... This clearly proves the word Shiva is there in Vedas and is Vedic God. The Induz script is a script??? historians disagree? If yes is it pictographic or phoenetic??? historians disagree !!!!! Anyway it is NOT Brahmi dear as u say !!!! Induz script was totally lost (so say historians), then came Persians around 500 BCE who introduced Aramaic script. It was Brahmins who invented first Kharoshti and then Brahmi script based on this Aramaic one. Brahmi script invented by Aryan Brahmins is the mother of all scripts incl Devanagiri(modern Hindi) and Tamil script too. Buddha and Mahavira were Kshatriyas and Aryans and lived only 2500 years ago. They do NOT predate Vedas. Yes Jainism was there before Mahavira's times i agree. It would be nice if u donot comment on history and Vedas if u do not know about them
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 03:02 AM Permalink
Sankrit did not figure among oldest languages. Sankrit being very modern phenomenon and latest among all historical languages. So how Ram of 17 million years old era can be related with Sankrit or Vedic era. There is only one possibility either Ram exist or Sankrit/vedic culture existed. if Sandkrit/vedic existed then Ram was for sure a imaginary character which was never a reality. (Vedic blunder)
Ugaritic 15th c. BC Proto-Canaanite 14th c. BC Phoenician 11th c. BC Paleo-Hebrew 10th c. BC Aramaic 8th c. BC Br%u0101hm%u012B & Indus Harappan 6th c. BC Tibetan 7th c. Khmer/Javanese 9th c. Hebrew 3rd c. BC Syriac 2nd c. BC Nabatean 2nd c. BC Arabic 4th c. Pahlavi 3nd c. BC Avestan 4th c. Greek 9th c. BC Etruscan 8th c. BC Latin 7th c. BC Runes 2nd c. Ogham 4th c. Gothic 3th c. Armenian 405 Glagolitic 862 Cyrillic 10th c. Samaritan 6th c. BC Iberian 4th c. BC
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 03:10 AM Permalink
Brahmi & Indus Harappan 6th c. BC . These are the only languages which are oldest language of our country. Sanskrit is latest among all historical indian languages. Prakrit , Pali, Magdhi can be or same age of sankrit or older than sankrit. Most of the language except Sankrit were mastered by Jainism and Saivism.( saivism is another form of jainism , renamed parallely around 2000-2500 years ago. These were the major religions of Dravids and harappan civilization.
RE:RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 03:15 AM Permalink
I repeat again DRAVIDIANS WERE NEVER EVER HINDU/VEDIC/BRAHMNIC.
Yes many of Dravid temples were taken over by Brahmins and converted to Avatars of Aryan Gods. There are living examples of more than 200 such temples who become prey of Brahmin mutilation of dravid history and till today they are controlled by them. However those guys are called us Iyers and Iyengars who never let you go near to any of converted gods. Those gods in present form are no where found in history or in other hindu temples of India.
Does that prove my point, very practical and with tons of proof
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by mohd salim on Oct 07, 2007 07:26 PM Permalink
Dear ramsubbu' you are a dravidian or christian or belong to any other roligion, this totaly for your knowledge that the aryans are the origins of india. this is the foreners who criated mis understanding between indians to rule on them and same is happenins today.if you have a little of mined then you can imagin the plot of outsiders they want divide us on that religious and cultural boundries.so you are requested to keep your mined alive and try to destroy the plot of indian enemeis and if you are a foreiner and trying to devide us on grounds as you mentioned in your mails then you are a fool because you will not succeed in yours planning .either who is a politicians in indian teritorry or living in other part of world. if you are realy intrested to know the histry and foundings, you go through the text which is relates totaly scientific foundings.
Demise of Aryan Invasion/Race Theory-Part 1
Prof. Dinesh Agrawal Address: 156 Aberdeen lane, State College, PA 16801 USA Tel: (814)-234-3558 (Home), (814)-863-8034 (Office) Aryan Race and Invasion Theory is not a subject of academic interest only, rather it conditions our perception of India`s historical evolution, the sources of her ancient glorious heritage, and indigenous socio-economic-political institutions which have been developed over the millennia. Indian culture and nationalism have been evolved and fostered over the millenia by India`s ancient rishis who at the banks of holy rivers of Saptasindhuand Saras
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 10:05 PM Permalink
The survival of Brahui, a Dravidian language, spoken even today by large numbers of people in Baluchistan and the adjoining areas in Afghanistan and Iran, is an important factor in the identification of the Indus Civilization as Dravidian. Brahui belongs linguistically to the North Dravidian group with several shared innovations with Kurukh and Malto; no dialectal features connect it with the South or Central Dravidian languages. Hence Parpola concludes that Brahui represents the remnants of the Dravidian language spoken in the area by the descendants of the Harappan population.
Indo-Aryan languages have been spoken in the area once occupied by the Indus civilisation and gradually all over North India since at least 1000 B.C. It is natural to assume that they were spoken there even earlier. Speakers of Hindi, Bengali and other Neo-Indo-Aryan languages especially have been prone to interpret the Indus texts as Sanskrit (understood in the broad sense of Old Indo-Aryan), from which their own mother tongues have evolved.
But Sanskrit was never a part of Indus civilization, vedic religion was no way close. Aryan invasion has been proven and approved by many historians except some historians or writers who are from Hindi belt.
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 08, 2007 08:31 PM Permalink
It is an assumption that the language spoken by isolated tribe in Balochistan is related to proto-Tamil, the language supposed to be of that of Induz valley. Your assumption that sanskrit script is Devanagiri is wrong , since olden times sanskrit was written in Brahmi script. Also Pali,Sauraseni,Magadhi etc were Indo_European languages and had no connection with Tamil andDravidian languages... Also Jainism is an Aryan(propogated by Brahmin and Kshatriya turned yatis (ascetics)like Rishabha,Mahavira etc) originated faith and NOT Dravidian one (I mean south indian).Do not hijack the Brahmi script which is originated around 500 BCE as said by historians and they disagree that it is induz script. And sanskrit is as old as 3700 years (1700 BCE) as said in wiki entry for sanskrit.However it may have evolved slowly in to classical sanskrit. Now Pandyas(Oldest Tamil dynasty) were noble Kshatriyas(Aryans) and not OBCs and Shudras as said by you otherwise how will purans say them as noble Kshatriyas??? WIll Brahmins acknowledge them as Kshatriyas??? ""Remember even Rajshri Sivaji the Maratha was NOT considered a Kshatriya by Brahmins of Pune."". Even sanskrit names for places and kings existed in SriLanka (as told in Buddhist histrory record Mahavamsa) as early as 500 BCE(times of King Vijaya). sanskrit and Indo-European names(even pali,prakrit) we kknow is of Aryans and NOT of Dravidians. So how come in TamilNad and Kerala there were no Aryans in 500 BCE but (geographically separated)
RE:RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 09, 2007 12:00 AM Permalink
I would finally say Brahminic or Vedic religion is only historical blunder to kill Bharat culture. Today Indian history has no basis except brahminic mutilation. Twisting words , assimilating with puranas, or vedas do not make real history or evidence. All that I know is Ram was a great simulated character of Ramayan story. The story has good moral values to learn.
Secondly the word hinduism itself has no history more than 500 years. Vedic brahmins treated even Saivist very badly and considered them shudras, hunters and nomads just to prove them superior.
You can see thousands of Dravids were killed during Bhakti movement by Shankaracharya and team. This fact cannot be removed from the dravids memory, Dravids who were inhabitants of Bharat by all means. You are prone to believe Purana and vedas forgeting the science and hisotry. These are two different things. We Indians are looking for American dreams because we are still struck with Puranas and Vedas which gave us nothing but a huge country with superstitious , illeterate people with most crimes in world. We are ready to be slaves for Americans for 100 $ a month. Our existence itself is mocked at and specially when it is linked with cow belt emotions. We Indians loose all our reputation just labelled as country of Call centres or snake charmers. Can we grow little above imaginary stories and unfounded bogus history? if at all we have to become advanced country. Ram, Sanakrit, Puranas, Vedas, and 33 million gods
RE:RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 08, 2007 09:18 PM Permalink
And you see the wiki entry for Brahmi script. What i said is correct. Brahmi appeared as per historians only 500 BCE and that too t is derived from Aramaic they say!!! Kharoshti and Brahmi as oldest scripts of India after the so called Induz valley script(Is it a script??? i think few symbols!!!. And if it is Brahmi ; it proves that Induz valley civilization is Vedic.Remember there is no solid proof to prove that it was Dravidian either, it was the largest river valley civilization but yet the least known!!!!
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 08, 2007 10:56 PM Permalink
Dear Ramasubbu, Firstly I appreciate ur efforts and research work u did. It appears to me that u do not know the meaning of any sanskrit words. Because Mahavira lived around 500 BCE and I know that Maha means Great and Veera means Great Warrior or brave in sanskrit. He was a Kshatriya is a fact accepted by secular historians too. His name seems to be sanskrit to me. Also Balochi is the language of Balochstan and it is a eastern Iranian language. Brahui is spoken by a small tribe there. Now wiki pages in the net about sanskrit and Brahmi script contracdicts what you say about them and is in lieu with what I said... Anyways nice talking to you, i really enjoyed. Iam a Hindu and I believe in Advaita that everything is God. It is a pity that some Brahmins consider themselves superior and have no regard for other beings. Such Brahmins are everywhere not just ur Tamil Brahmins. Even I follow the policy that "Do not accept some one who does not inturn accepts ourselves". It is really humiliating when one is treated as an inferior being. For me world is non existant and so History is the story of the non-existant and Puranas are full of morals which enlighten one and help him liberate himself from Physical bondage. So I value Puranas more than History. Any way Wish u Good Luck. Wish Mother Godess shower blessing on u.
RE:RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 08, 2007 08:35 PM Permalink
Srilanka has as early as 500 BCE (During the times of King Vijaya,, ;Vijaya in sanskrit means the invincible)
And sanskrit was wrote using Granthakshari script in ancient Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Even today sanskrit slokas can be written using modern Malayalam script than using Devanagiri.
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 08, 2007 09:13 PM Permalink
Also tell me why would Jains being Dravidians (according to u) adopt Pali (Brahmi script) and other Indo_European languages of the invaders(Aryans)??? Why would SriLankan King of 500 BCE Vijaya take a sanskrit/Indo_European name??? He could have taken a name like Tamizhanban Anagvei sangavei etc know??? Why was the name of SriLankan capital Anuradhapurah??? during the times of Mauryan ruler Asoka??? (275 BCE) it should have been Sinhalese Pakkam know???
RE:RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 08, 2007 09:56 PM Permalink
Sanskrit has no evidence of its existence before 2000 years. Brahmi and its roots are more than 5000 years old for which archaelogical evidences are avaialble in Harappan civilization. Out of 100 sites in tamilnadu and srilanka, none has any evidence of vedic religion or sanskrit.
Moreover your kshatriya , viashya theory is all bogus, that came along with Aryans. Among dravids there was no caste system. Jainism was not Aryan phenomenon.
Finally I would say Aryans were barbaric nomads who came from eastern or central europe which is proven, because there is no proof found in any civilization here of their existence and Ram's existence. So just do not rake up stories based on your knowledge of Vedas or vedic imaginary stories. Dr. Emmanuel in his book DRavid lineage has dig the history of Nadars. Nadars who were Jains and their traditions are dating back to 4000 years as per him. Jainism and Jain followers were dravidians. Sir who told you that Mahavira was Kshatriya? Did any history or archaeological guru told you , or you are just giving harry potter version. Please be logical when you argue. don't drag your opinion based on vedic paint brush. Go with relevant facts. Please visit caves of Madurai hills, there are 56 ASI controlled sites and learn few details to brush up your knowledge. If you can historical prove existence of sanskrit, and Ram , I would do anything for you.
You can't challege my research of 15 years unless you have some evidences. Well I a
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 02:29 PM Permalink
Sir, you are jumbling. Earlier and first version of Veda never mentioned anything about Siva.
Brahmi and sanskrit had no connection. So Devnagari cannot be connected to Brahmi. Brahmi can only be connected to tamil. if you do not know this basic fact you can't work on this subject. Vedic existence was nil in harappan civilization which is 5000 years old. It was brahmi in harappan civilization. That time vedic religion or vedic intrustion did not come to this land. Please stop coloring everything with vedic brush. If you uncover any dravidian temple of south ( which were grabbed by Aryan brahmins) you will find Jain idol. Give a try. This fact cannot be blunder something which is rightly proven in no time. Well Varadaperumal, Kapaleeshwar, Venkateshwara are not Aryan gods, then how they become Vishnu's avatar? can you confirm this? How they came in the hands of Aryan brahmins. Well why dravidian and aryan gods are different even today, except that there is fake networking link called "avatar" which was trick to grab temples from dravidian hands.
EMS NNN --- you are too confused even with basic chronology of history. how can vedic brush can prove dravid, siva and jains? who are much beyond the vedic existence and can be proved with archaeological evidence.
You cannot give one single proof except quoting things from mythical epics.
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 02:38 PM Permalink
EMS-NNN OR SHARMAJI'S AVATAR, you cannot give even one single archaeological evidence of existence of vedic brush before 2000 years. You cannot give even single evidence of Ram or Sanskrit or Brahmin in Harappan civilization.
all that you have is to quote things lifted from vedas, or mythology. I have archeological and historical evidences. Even without these with contradiction in vedas itself I can prove there was no Ram, no Sanskrit, there was no siva in vedic cult, and there was no Ramayana at all. Forget about Ram sethu. Same thing has been filed as affidavit by ASI officers. See you cannot prove your point by threat or mass belief or superstitions. World demands for proof and scientific result which you have none.
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 02:43 PM Permalink
Whole world agree that Aryan race is attached with Horse.
Horse was missing from any historical facts in dravid civilization. So how budha and mahavira can be kshatariyas, there was no caste system prior to brahminic intrusion. In Dravid system there was no caste theory. Can you tell me how and when and who were Shudras or dalit, how they become shudras? Dravids became shudras since brahmins wanted to control their property, temples and business.
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 06, 2007 05:02 PM Permalink
Mr Subbu, No historians who believe in Induz valley civilization being Dravidian will agree to your notion that Brahmi script is Induz script.. If you find Brahmi script i Induz valley sites that means that Induz valleyy civilization is Arya and not Dravidian. Also for me Dravidian means south Indian and NOT a race related to Polynesians as u thinks. Also Aryans means Brahmins,Kshatriyas and Vysyas who wear Yajnopaveet and have Upanayana culture and not Indo European tribe.
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 10:09 PM Permalink
Prevedic culture is nothing about Aryans.Aryans came from outside. There is not even single evidence of Aryans in prevedic era ( i am using prevedic word as anything non-vedic is before their intrusion). Any pre-vedic phenomenon, history, archaeology belongs to Dravids. Harappan valley civilization is purely dravid because there is no traces of Aryan, brahmins, kshatriyas and vysyas. None of them existed here. Show me one hindu or aryan temple which is as old as 2000 years-- none. Ofcourse some hindu temples are converted from Dravid temples but they are not original hindu temples, they have been remodified with name and looks of idol. You name any tempple (which is as old as 2000 years or above) , thee is no traces of aryan history in that.I think you are getting my point. Please substantiate your claim with archaeological or historical evidence or referecen. Don't just lift some statements from mythological books(harry potter books) and conclude that Aryan did exist here before 2000 years. Enough of painting everything with vedic brush. Can you say samething about American, European history? can you paint their history with Vedic brush? you can only do here in India because people here work with emotions, sentiments and superstitions, nothing with fact.If you work with faact you loose job- see how ASI officers lost their job who filed affidavit. India never had a written history , it is only mythology which rules our past.
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 07, 2007 01:58 AM Permalink
The problem is there with not only you but ur Brahmins Iyers and Iyengars too... They too thinks that Tamil and sanskrit predates all other languages in India.. Ur Brahmins too consider themselves superior to all other Brahmins and peoples ... No wonder U hate Brahmins this much. O every Tamilians shed ur pride ... Remove from ur minds the feeling that Tamil is a great language.It is as good as any other Indian language. Then only u ppl will integrate to Indian union mentally !!!!!!!
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 07, 2007 01:52 AM Permalink
Oh man u mean to say that Brahmi script u found in Harappa?? Which script u used while u were living in Pakistan 5000 years back??? Which Dravidian paint u used??? Which language the ancestors of Dravidians used while u were in Harappa??? Any PROOF??? that Tamil or proto-Tamil was the language of Harappa??? Any proof that present Tamil script was used in Harappa??? Even the oldest sangam works date back to 2000 years only. U see Thirukural, tolkappiyam and other sangam works ,chilappatikaram all dates to 1st or 2nd century BCE (AT THE MAX)
There were sanskrit literature works that predates these works !!!!!!!!!!!!! Why sanskrit Go to Tarim Bain just north of Kashmir in southern Xinjiang, Go to Transoxiana (Uzbekhstan and Turkmen) U will find Gandhari texts there Gandhari,Artha Magadhi,Pali and Sauraseni and other Prakrit were as old as Tamil and sanskrit predates these sangam work,Tamil script etc etc ... U r living in a false heaven thinking that Induz valley people spoke proto-Tamil and they wrote an ancient script !!!!! What a ptiy.... First prove that one !!!!!
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 02:45 AM Permalink
EMS -NNN QUOTES: Thirukural, tolkappiyam and other sangam works ,chilappatikaram all dates to 1st or 2nd century BCE.
Okay, even these are claimed by brahimns/hindus/vedic gurus as their work? Tell me how. Above work was not in Sankrit nor it was by Brahmins or hindus. It was dravidian work and most likely by Jain civlization. Please note that Jainism existed in India much much before vedic relgion came in South India and rest of India. There was no traces of Vedic religion in south India till Pallava kings. Do you know Pallava kings were Jains and most of Tamil kings, These facts are hardly published but well researched by ASI. Well why do Brahmins call Kanchipuram, Mahabalipuram as Hindu and Arjun (pandav) centres, when they were built by Jain king Pallavas.? It is habit of brahmins/vedic culture to claim every dravidian property as their own. first lesson for you:: Dravidians were never ever Hindus OR Vedic. Later Dravidians were included in lowest strata of Vedic religion as Shudras and Rakshashas after their heritage and temples were taken over and converted by Brahmin forces. No wonder why dravidians hate Aryans and Aryan gods. Dravidian gods are even today do not belong to Hindus. They are just renamed as Avatar of Vishnu etc. Say for eg. Thirupati Lord Venkateshwara or Lord Varadaperumal, Nagaraja Temple in Nagercoil,or Meenakshi temple in Madurai or any temple in Kanchipuram- who were normal Jain gods later renamed as vishnu avatar, or Siva avatar after Brahm
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by ems nnn on Oct 06, 2007 11:39 PM Permalink
What happended to Brahmi script? Why silent??? Did u search in the net ??? Brahmi,Devanagari etc???
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 12:59 AM Permalink
Oh man you want to prove that there was Sanskrit and Devnagari in pre vedic era? Which Vedic color brush you are using now?
So you are saying Ram existed before pre vedic era around 17 million years ago and monkey made the sky bridge (sethu)and Ram was speaking in Sanskrit? So why Sanskrit has no antiquity above 2000 years (or closely) . In this case which language was used by Ram, Hanuman and Sita?
RE:RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 02:29 AM Permalink
EMS-NNNNN. You are creating the question and answering by yourself. Did I say Tamil existed before 2000 years. Ofcourse Tamil was evolved from Brahmi. and basis for brahmi was Harappan language. There is no where Sanskrit in any part of Indian continent existed. Thirukural and any literature of that time was in Brahmi, so how do you claim it to be Brahmin property. Why do you claim Thiruvalluvar was Brahmnic or Hindu property? Hinduism or any form of Hinduism didn't exist in 1CENTURY B.c. during Thiruvalluvar. Is it not a historical lie. Why did you want to color thiruvalluvar with Brahmnic, vedic paint? Thiruvalluvar had nothing to do with Hindu Gods. Archaeology department and Professor Dr. Santhalingam, senior director of ASI has clearly mentioned in his research work that Thiruvalluvar was Jain and dravid and his work never belonged to Hinduism or so called hinduism which is present form of Vedic religion. Why did brahmin claim Thiruvalluvar , thirukural and South Indian temples as Hindus or brahmnic? It was because they wanted to control temples and wanted to label it as Vedic. So they used another trick of Avatarisation of dravidian gods into Aryan avatars.
RE:@ Ramsubbu
by Ramasubbu on Oct 07, 2007 02:21 AM Permalink
Sir John Marshall was the first to suggest that the language of the Indus Civilization was Dravidian. Most scholars are Harappa-Mohenjo-daro Writing Characters and Sealsagreed with Marshall. Piero Meriggi, a scholar who deciphered the Hittite hieroglyphs, opined that Brahvi, the Dravidian language spoken even now in part of Balochistan, must be the original Harappan language.
RE:RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Jeffrey Mittal on Oct 06, 2007 07:56 AM Permalink
Just a reminder as to awhat you said
by Ramasubbu on Oct 04, 2007 12:53 PM Thank god america, japan, germany did not have Ram, else they would have been as corrupt as Indians. look at our judiciary and police who are 90% rotten. Women are most unsafe in this Ram-rajya. thank god Rest of world doesn't have this Ram Rajya. let us go to christian school and start believing all those fake gods created by Brahmins. Basically hinduism is another name of brahmin slavery. RAM RAJYA HAS CORRUPTED OUR COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE DIE OUT OF HUNGER, DISEASE , POVERTY, but we still love feeding our fake gods with LADDU and PEDA.
All our kids go to christian schools and we talk about non-existing Ram. Afterall we are slaves to our gunda politicians, bureaucracy and slave of western world. Thanks to China also who manufacturer our Hanumanji and Ram Idols. Imported Ramji , sitaji, Hanumanji.
I apologise for being blunt, I don't care what religion you or we are, first we need to respect work, humanity. RAM RAJYA has only bought as poverty, hunger and slavery.
RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Jeffrey Mittal on Oct 06, 2007 08:02 AM Permalink
NO, all our kids do not go to Christian schools. There are numerous excellent schools that are not brainwashing institutes. THOUSANDS of children attend them with mine and are getting and have gotten an excellent education from them.
I realise that you like brown nosing the white man and his faith and that you follow orders from your handlers without question, but there are many of us who have taken the pains to understand our great faith, Sanatan Dharma AND help our children understand it also.
Just posting your hate filled crap, sucking up to your white masters shows YOUR slave mentality. Save that for one your brainwashing sessions, so that you can have more poison injected into you.
You claim that you respect work. Tell me what is meant by "Ram Rajya" that you denigrate so freely.
It is an IDEAL SOCIETY, where people ttreat each other with resoect and do their work with honesty and integrity.
Do YOU qualify for that? Where do you belong?
Taking the name of the Lord in your pseudonym itself shows something does it not? He praises Germany, where Max Mueller's Aryan theory was used to BUTCHER more than ten million people. What a foolish man. What was the genocide Hitler conducted, r subbu. Was that maybe a form of the most grevious corruption. Do you how many people the Japanese killed in World War II, and continued till they got nuked. Must be the high moral values and peace and love that is preached I fully agree that India today is FULL o
RE:RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Jeffrey Mittal on Oct 06, 2007 08:03 AM Permalink
Cont'd
I fully agree that India today is FULL of corupt people, who will lie, cheat and distort. What I see is that it almost ALWAYS directed against the Hindus.
RE:RE:RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 10:21 PM Permalink
Jeffrey you agree that india is fully corrupt, there are cheat and dishonest people. I add even a woman cannot walk alone here, that means it is sexually starved society. Is this what Ram expected in his country?
RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 09:53 AM Permalink
Show mr one proof of Ram's existence which can be verified by non-fanatics or scientists. Jeffrey saab you are hiding behind mythological ram and mythological sky bridge. Sorry I can't believe it , unless you have proof or any reference in history of any other country.
RE:RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Ramasubbu on Oct 06, 2007 10:07 AM Permalink
jeFFREy babu nice attempt of nose saving. But send me one proof of Ram's existence. Can you be little scientific or secular for a while?
HOnestly except fanatic hindus no one else believe in your mythology with no basis or historical evidences.You can only forcibly make people believe Raam in INdia , but not outside India. People or world laugh at we INdians.World need proof jeffrey.
RE:RE:RE:No Sanskrit, no Ram, No vedi gods existed before 1500 years.
by Jeffrey Mittal on Oct 06, 2007 10:28 PM Permalink
@ r subbu
Do you see what you saying?
When I ask you to look for the same Lord in you and others, what is that, dear r subbu? Since it seems diffficult for you to understand, let me explain that is the MOST secular you can be. The Semetic faiths claim ownership an exclusive "God"(evreybody who does not profess their particular faith being WRONG) and that my friend is the where prejudice and bigotry begin. When you ask for proof, I ask you - do you know who your great, great grand father was and if indeed there is proof of his existence? How do YOU prove it? When you say that you had a great, great grandfather, then that is "faith". There is NO PROOF that he ever existed, is there?
I think that you are COMPLETLY wrong in who uses force for making people belive in their own set of beliefs. It is the semetic faiths (Crusades and Arab wars for your info)that have done that for milleniums and history is replete with that. A very minimal amount of effort will reveal to you that Bharath has never inveaded other lands but has been ATTACKED numerous times. So, I would like to request you to leave the brainwashing and look at facts as they are instead of making ridiculous statewments that have ZERO veracity.
r subbu, it will help you not waste this Human birth if you start seeing the Lord within you. Give it a try. Life is much more peaceful, when you don't have so much hatres and poison in your mind.
The government move was no doubt political, because without searching for evidence none will be found. Having read the Bible as well, which does not even name Jesus's (half) sisters, I know that the ancient Ramayana is much more expressive and informative of actual details.
