RE:Religion a figment of our imagination
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:36 PM Permalink
Cont'd: "One can be a member of a transcendental group, or a nation, even though one never comes in contact with the other members of it. Moreover, the composition of such groups, whether they are clans or nations, may equally include the living and the dead," he added.
He argues that no animals, not even our nearest relatives the chimpanzees, can do this. Instead, he says, they're restricted to the routine and Machiavellian social interactions of everyday life.
The reason for this, he says, is that they can't imagine beyond this immediate social circle, or backwards and forwards in time, in the same way that humans can.
Bloch believes our ancestors evolved the essential neural architecture to imagine before or around 40-50,000 years ago, at a time called the Upper Palaeological Revolution, the final sub-division of the Stone Age.
"The transcendental network can, with no problem, include the dead, ancestors and gods, as well as living role holders and members of essentialised groups," he said.
"Ancestors and gods are compatible with living elders or members of nations because all are equally mysterious invisible, in other words transcendental," he added.
RE:RE:Religion a figment of our imagination
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:37 PM Permalink
Cont'd: But Bloch argues that religion is only one expression of this exceptional ability to form bonds with non-existent or distant people or value-systems.
"Religious-like phenomena in general are an inseparable part of a key adaptation unique to modern humans, and this is the capacity to imagine other worlds, an adaptation that I argue is the very foundation of the sociality of modern human society," he said.
"Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion," he added.
Bloch has detailed his findings in the journal of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B .
RE:RE:RE:Religion a figment of our imagination
by younus siddique on Apr 28, 2008 04:04 PM Permalink
AVINASH ...please stop this pick and copy paste business ...which you yourself dont like ..
RE:A question to the ''believers''
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:22 PM Permalink
There is no your god or my god in my opinion. God is one and he is only that persons who is righeous and loves all mankind, helps poor and forgives his enemies. Unfortunately some ideologies say that those who do not bend and bow like slaves will go to hell, then they forcefully make people submit at the tip of the sword. I dont believe in all that. I would rather prefer to die than submit to such evil philosophy.
Unfortunately, many weak minded Indians(the weakest of us all) submitted to this ideaology. Mostly they are living in slums in Pakistan, but are causeing a lot of trouble for decent humans.
RE:RE:A question to the ''believers''
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:26 PM Permalink
Dear Lotan Potan, there is an article on the web "Positive Atheism" titled wheter "God is a plain dope" Pl read that. And also Ten Commandments on the School Wall available on teh same website.
There is no proof for the existence of any "supreme creator" Are we to beleive that such a creature created itself? Then why the earthing and everything in the universe could not create themselves?
RE:A question to the ''believers''
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:33 PM Permalink
Consider these facts: 1. The universe comprises of only two things Matter and Energy. 2. The interaction between these two entities is governed by 1500 fundamental scientific constants. 3. One such constant is the Gravitational constant G = 6.67 * 10 pow(-11). 4. In this universe, if you change this constant by 0.00000000000000000000(thirty three zeros) %, then the universe will collapse, in other words, slight increase will collapse the planets to a point, and slight decrease will prohibit any solids only gases will remain. 5. Each of these universal constants ARE FINELY TUNED TO THE BILLION TRILLION TRILLIONth degree of correctness. 6. This fine tuning makes life possible in this universe. 7. This fine tuning, MANDATES a fine tuner
WHO IS THE FINE TUNER? WHAT ARE HIS LIMITS? WHAT IS HIS POWER? WHAT IS HIS PURPOSE?
None can prove that HE DOES NOT EXIST. However, logically, all evidence points to his existence.
RE:A question to the ''believers''
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:40 PM Permalink
>>>>>>However, logically, all evidence points to his existence..........is you are sure it is a "he" why not a "she" or an "it"? And can you also elaborate whether he is blond or brunette, what is his age, size, where does he sit, etc also?
RE:A question to the ''believers''
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:44 PM Permalink
Yeah I made a mistake by "HE", but that is not a deficiency of my conecept of the creator, but a deficiency of the sexually biased language we use. The creator will have no gender, shape, form or nature. He is not defined within the parameters of this universe. For any thing defined by the parameters of this universe is made up of matter and energy and consequently bound by the rules and laws of this universe. That is not true for the creater as it is a concept essentially defined 'beyond' this universe.
The prime mover, the originator, the creator, the nameless one, The Lord, GOD, Yeshua.
You are trying to defend the indefensible. There is no way any one can justify the religious fanaticism and/or the absurdities int he so-called holy books. So pl come out of the religious dogmas. This is applicable to the believers in other faiths also. Any one can find any number of loopholes in the faiths and pose questions (abusive and non-abusive also).
If your religion is good, you practice the same. We have the freedom to believe in any god and not to beleive also.
RE:@ younus siddique
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 02:55 PM Permalink
Problem with these people is that they force others to their evil ideology. Like they have done with Hindus in Pakistan as I read in the UN Human rights report. The only thing that gave me immense pleasure was that 95% of Paki Hindus converted to Christianity and now there is a sizeable population fo Paki Christians. I belive Christianity is a noble religion and I am happy for my Paki Hindu brothers.
At the same time I cannot forgive those Muslim criminals who committed endless crimes. I can guiltfree nuke Pakistan only thing that stops me is the Christian population of Pakistan.
RE:@ younus siddique
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 02:59 PM Permalink
Compared to any religion in the world, hinduism is the most liberal. I am not saying this just because I am a hindu. We do not have to listen to any high priest nor can they harm us in any way where as the Christians are dependent on their Chruches right from the time of Baptism till burial in the cemetry and the muslims are in constant fear of one fatwa or another from some obscure mullahs!
And so far as the principles of any religion is concerned, it seems that Buddhism is much better than any other as they beleive in the well being of all livng things (not just humanbeings).
RE:@ younus siddique
by younus siddique on Apr 28, 2008 02:59 PM Permalink
its only you HINDUS think that i am trying to defend the indefensible ....
come and check it out ..come out of your well and see the world ....
your existance is not at all regarded by any nation ....no one respect or care about HINDUISM ......HINDUS are nothing but born slaves as per WHITES ....they look at your religion as a cult and laugh on your comic stories about myth and GODS ......
HINDUISM is not at all a religion .....its just a theorey written by every TOM DICK AND HARRY in every ages ........
some says that HINDUISM is just a way of life ...some says THAT HINDU GODS DO EXIST and MYTH still EXISTS ......you contradict your own statements ...first decide what HINDUISM is ........
by the way ...there is nothing called HINDUISM ....INDIAN REGION is called as HIND by ARABS ........and teh poeple live here are HINDIS or HINDUS .....people started calling the religion followed by HINDI's as HINDUISM ...
so the name of your religion was given by MIDDLE EASTERSN or ARABS ...you cant even name your own religion ...
RE:RE:@ younus siddique
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:06 PM Permalink
Mr. younus, I am not fond of even Hinduism but why don't you realize the fact that it has survived the onslaught of Semitic religions for nearly 1000 years (nearly 700 years of rule by the Islamic invaders and nearly 200 years of rule by the European Christians and their missionaries)? Still the majority in our Country are "hindus" That itself is proof of the inherent strength of our native culture.
Why do you take pround in the legacy of the invaders? The muslim rulers were also not much better than the politicians we see today. Once having established, they were interested only in amassing wealth, filling up their harems with beautiful women, building monuments, etc. Had they cared for the common muslims, there was no need for "Sachar committee" and things like that.
The world "hindu" is derived from the name of river "Sindhu" and was used by the West Asian traders for describing those lived in the vicinity of that river. What difference it makes whether the name is given by one person (like Islam and Christianity) or by a group of traders?
RE:@ younus siddique
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:12 PM Permalink
Siddiqui is wrong. According to a worldwide poll conducted by CNN and BBC India and Hinduism was top favored even more than France by people all across Europe/America/Canada.
All islamic countries came at the bottom, with specially Pakistan and Iran at bottommost.
Major polls in UK show people dont want Muslims to live in UK. US citizens in majority polls hate Islam.
Indian Culture was rated as the third most loved and appreciated all across the world thanks to Bollywood that is seen across middle east, europe, russia and USA.
you are wrong ...come to US or go to any part of EUROPE ...
HINDUISM is nothing but a JOKE for them ...and HINDU EPICS are just a comic book ....
as for your INFORMATION ...
its MUSLIM culture which was adopted by INDIANS and called as INDIAN CULTURE .....Hindus started using GHUNGHAT only after MUSLIMS introduced the culture of PARDA .....
if you want you can check the HINDU CULTURE in KAMASUTRA MOVIE ...which was abolished after MUSLIM INVASION.
RE:@ younus siddique
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:38 PM Permalink
Younus I am a US Green Card Holder. I know more US Christians than you know Muslims.
well you dont seems to be a US citizen with your posts ....well i got the citizen ship before you born ....so dont talk about americans atleast infront of me ..
RE:@ younus siddique
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 03:34 PM Permalink
Mr. Younus, all religions are based on a bunch of lies. The Semitic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam the more so). Why are you again and again harping on the religions? They have no real meaning in today's world. Why can't you treat a fellow humanbing as he is rather than looking at him thru the prism of religion?
RE:@ younus siddique
by speekingthetruth on Apr 28, 2008 03:48 PM Permalink
How come only Younis is protesting for the sake of ISLAM! Why no Khan's namely ShahRuk ,Amir Salman and last but not the least Saif Ali Kahan! not protesting at all!!
In fact they are enjoying all the Peace and Goodness that all the Hindus have for all ManKind and the Living!!
Younis are you paid heavly by any pakistani organisation for Peace!! Since i feel they were able to influence your lothy self due to there Greed and Hatred for not making it into Bharath .. The land of Peace and Truth.All thing here Holy as long as you live in peace and speek the Truth!
Today's TOI has front-paged the news about three sons (one Engineer, one MBA and a thrid one studying for Engg) killing their own mother to rid her of "possession" and trying to "sacrifice" their sister-in-law to revive their mother! When this is the condition of well educated persons, what can we expect from the illiterates/semi-literates of our country?
Unfortunately this phenomena is prevalent among the followers of all religions. It is hgih time that our Education system is revamped to inculcate rational thinking among the new generation at least.
RE:Even well educated persons are not free from religious fanaticism and superstitions
by younus siddique on Apr 28, 2008 02:50 PM Permalink
which religion do they belong ...so that people here can start abusing those religions ..
RE:RE:Even well educated persons are not free from religious fanaticism and superstitions
by Avinash on Apr 28, 2008 02:53 PM Permalink
That is immaterial. I can re-count such instances involving the followers of any religion (hindu, muslim, christian, etc).
So, don't ask "for whom the bell tolls" The bell tolls for me!
RE:Dawood in the forbes list of Criminals & Terrorists!
by mandar on Apr 28, 2008 02:51 PM Permalink
This attitude speaks volumes about muslim mentality. Muslims everywhere feel they are wronged by others hence they are continuously in a stste of mind, thinking of taking revenge. The terrorists is their answer as a revenge. They should introspect why they are away from the main stream all over the world. Why their living conditions are so bad ?
Though terrorists could be only 1% of muslim population, but the remaining 99% covertly or overtly support them. Osam is the GOD for muslims in the world like DAWOOD is for Indian Muslims. To tackle this menace thousands of Bal Thackerey & Modi's are required in India and thousands of Bush & Blair are required all over the world.
Islam as a religion and muslims all over need good leadership who can guide them in a better way to get accomodated in the multi cultural, multilingual, multi religious world that is ever becoming smaller due to technological advances.
The main fear amongst others is the adamancy of Muslims considering only Islam as the true religion and their ways from pre historic times to convert others to their religion by hook or crook. Every individual wants to practice his own faith and enjoy the freedom of conversion as per his will. Many muslims do want to change their faith. But they are not allowed to do so. Many muslims want to bring out the true stories about Islam. But for fear they can not do so. Salman Rushdie is still living under fear for writing the truth. The fatwas from Ulemas make the life of free and independant living muslims the most miserable.
The big talks of Islam as a growing religion is a myth. Allow the freedom of conversion and see hordes of muslims will come out of the prison called Islam. Mainly the women who live their life below human dignity. A small utterance criticizing Quran or Quranic verses and the man is in danger of his life. Islam is growing in this fear.
Second reason is their producing capacity. Every man marries four women and every women produces minimum five childre. Thus one man creates minimum 20 new muslims whether he is able to feed them or not. Others take responsibility of their children restricting to 1 or 2 children.
RE:Islam Needs leadership
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 02:36 PM Permalink
It is a prehistoric religion alive on blind naive ideals. They say "just because muslims were not destroyed in the past, we will not get destroyed now".
These poor people are living in the past, they dont realize that every thing that happens in this world happens someday for the first time only , like the destruction of Islam.
They dont see the signs of coming things. Nuke attack by Israel/USA. Global warming where all poor people will die of natural disaster, and that encompasses atleast 70% of 1.4 billion muslims. Annihilation of Pakistan by India. Islam is about to sweep out from mankind, Satan is about to be defeated.
RE:RE:Islam Needs leadership
by younus siddique on Apr 28, 2008 02:40 PM Permalink
hahaha .....good joke ..
@ LOTAN POTAN ...
nuke attack by ISREAL/USA ...you mean NONE OF ISLAMIC COUNTRY HAS NUKE ......the SATAN will be defeated soon dont worry ....HINDUISM and YOUR CHRITIANITY will be wiped from the face of earth ..
RE:Islam Needs leadership
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 02:46 PM Permalink
You know China has eradicated 3 million (30 lacks) Chinese Muslims in the past 10 years silently. The same china has given beggar nukes to Pakistan. The same China will anyday KILL pakistan in 20 minutes if Muslims decide to bomb the olympic games as is widely circulated in news nodadays.
And for your information, God has made muslim countries so weak that 22 muslim states cannot match one small noble brave country Israel. Do you know why, because Jews are the chosen people of God, and the righeous never fall in front of the wicked.
Like Hindus never fell in front of the evil Muslims and we never converted. You could cut off our heads, but not our sould, we refused to convert. And today we stand in front of Muslims, with our Hindu Indian culture, so strong that one missile from India can annihilate 90% muslims.
The righeous shall never fall in front of the wicked.
RE:Islam Needs leadership
by younus siddique on Apr 28, 2008 02:55 PM Permalink
you know some thing ...
its not GOD which made muslims country weak ...but its your father AMERICA and BRITISH which are supporting ISREAL ...and the differences between the muslim nations .....
otherwise do you think that ISREAL could ever breath in between MUSLIM NATIONS ....
i think its you who should be more worried about CHINA ...because CHINA can sweep INDIA and all HINDUS less than 20 minutes .....
it was the foolish MUSLIM ancestors who showed Mercy on you and let you live ....otherwise do you think you would have ever existed after being ruled by muslims for so many years .....
HINDUS are so filthy that they can convert to any religion if you give them MONEY ....
look at your SUNITA WILLIAMS who converted just for AMERICAN NATIONALITY ...in the same way there are many HINDUS who converted to CHRISTIANITY for citizenship and MONEY ......
you know even a small BOMB from any MUSLIM COUNTRY can wipe you off ..
RE:Islam Needs leadership
by Sonia on Apr 28, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
A correction...if some Hindus got converted to Christians, how does it change anything ? According to our Hindus beliefs , all Gods are same and there is only one creator. And we are given freedom to worship that sole creator in any form , in any ways ( as HE exists everywhere in all forms). Thats why even if a Hindu enters a church ,he bows his head coz his GOD is existing there in another form....how does it matter which form ?? I pity ur thoughts , and thats how Hinduism differs from islam. We by nature and toleration are much much greater that you....
RE:Islam Needs leadership
by Lotan Potan on Apr 28, 2008 03:03 PM Permalink
Who gave power to America? God. Who gave intelligence to Jews? God. Who gave progress to Indian Hindus? God. Who gave destruction and weakness to Muslims? GOD.
Why? Becuase of hte crimes of Islam.
Look at yourself, praying to God that China destroys the country that feeds you and your family. This inherent evil in you is inculcated from Islam. That is why you will never be the one loved by God as Satan lives in you ad infinitum.
