Every country or society that has disparities in wealth, posessions, living standards, etc must strive to create a "Safety Net" for the not so fortunate or well off. Concepts of Law of the Land, Right to own Property or Personal Liberty, Freedom of Speech, etc will only be sustained as long as a majority of the people are happy with their lot in life and have the basic necessities of life like sufficient food, shelter, clothing and access to education and a chance to improve their lot in life. Conspicous consumption and ultra luxurious living by a few stand out in socities where poverty abounds. Else the dangers of violent revolution, mutiny, rebellion or even anarchy & lawlessness lurk just beneath the surface. This is the situation the wealthy, elite and middle class have to realise and act upon.
During 1984 assembly election in Uttar Pradesh, the Congress party got a thumbing majority of 400 seats out of 424 and the then oppostion got only 24 seats. After that the BJP got elected in UP and they ruled the state much time. The UP state today is ruled by BSP and it says that Mayavati is backward cast but doing everything for uppers cast.
Congress & BJP is responsible for UP backwardness and now the BSP is looting the Uttar pradesh.
In India the crime is less is due to the Hindu culture.We Hindus beieve in Karma and follow the teachings of Gita (I am not saying all of them).another major reason is the joint Family culture.Hinduism is also the reason we have few divorces as compared to other religion.
These things are absent in the west.Unfortunately, People in India are emulating the western culture
NEW DELHI: An alumni association of Indian Institute of Management across the country on Friday approached the Delhi HC seeking to restrain the Centre from providing quota for OBC students in higher educational institutions, including the IIMs.
The association contended that the government had misinterpreted the SC judgment, which while upholding the OBC reservation policy, had, according to the petitioners, said that it would not be applicable to the higher educational institutions.
"The ratio of the constitution bench judgment is clear and it says that reservation is not available in post-graduate courses," the association contended before a bench comprising Justices T S Thakur and Siddharth Mirdul.
The bench after brief hearing sought the response of the Centre. The government, however, sought some time to go through the judgment before responding to the contentions raised by the association.
While referring to the apex court judgment, the counsel appearing for the association interpreted the quota verdict as that majority of five judge constitution bench was in favour of not giving the reservation to students after graduation.
"Justice Dalveer Bhandari expressly said that no reservation should be there in PG courses while Justice Arijit Pasayat and Justice C K Thakkar were of the view that reservation must end with graduation," the advocate appearing for the association argued before HC.
This guy looks like one of the upper middle class elite: he goes to Columbia, Oxford, Australia and writes about wealth disparity without creating wealth himself as an entrepreneur or living a poor man's life... One wonders how hateful divisive opinions form in society and it is this kind of misguided elitist journalists who are neither wealth-creators nor poor who use words to create doubts in people's minds about hard work. hustling and reward. I give you : Our generation's Indian Karl Marx. I don't even want to read his book .. his article is disgusting. For over 50 years the govt was running things in India driving India into deep poverty ... now with private enterprise poor people's living standards are rising(affordable cellphones and in a matter of time affordable education & health care)... Patience... nation-building needs patience and entrepreneurial hardwork not articles about wealth disparity. If a man works hard and builds a business why shouldn't he make more wealth.. after all he earned it... is he going to eat his money without spending it.. and who gets the money? ..does it circulate among only rich people.. are you kidding me? Instead of focusing on barriers to social mobility he talks about the class system.. Is a self-built Infy Narayanamurthy a master and his lowliest programmer a slave... God! SAve us from elitist socialist journalists and authors! They will take us back to the hell-hole of before the 1991 economic liberalisation
RE:This is how it starts....
by geela parul on May 03, 2008 08:10 AM Permalink
Exactly.....Thanks for this wonderful post. even I tried to say the same thing 2 posts below.
RE:This is how it starts....
by cynic on May 03, 2008 10:06 AM Permalink
Rightly said very soon this guy will receive some million dollars in some or the other literary prize in a swanky 5 star new york hotel. This is what drives the author, not empathy for the poor
RE:This is how it starts....
by Amit Kakri on May 03, 2008 01:46 PM Permalink
Gentlemen, you seem to have completely misread the message Arvind is conveying through his book. Have you ever read about the French revolution; it started when the poor were so poor that they even could find two square meals a day. Well that was a different time and place; far fewer people; but just imagine if 300-400 million poor indians decide enough is enough and decide to revolt against the existing system. This is what he has sought to convey. He is right in pointing out the social structure as it is; the culture and civilisation way of thinking even of the poorest have ensure that no large scale social upheavals have taken place so far! But all of us particularly "THE RICH ENTREPREUNERS" busy flaunting their wealth must realise what is happening in the countryside.
RE:This is how it starts....
by gaida on May 04, 2008 03:59 AM Permalink
Amit, so I should be afraid of a poor man's revolt and keep my money under my mattress? How is that different from hiding my money under the mattress for fear of robbers.. My point is: The first impression that a poor man gets about a rich man driving a luxury car is wrong... the poor man sees that he is unable to buy what he needs whereas a rich man can easily afford life's necessities and more. The way to earn more money is for the poor man to show some initiative to upgrade his skills & actively seek opportunities and for society to enable (mind you: not "guarantee" but "enable") his social mobility in the form of easy access to credit(so he can borrow to learn new skills) & easy access to information(non-profits disseminating information about work opportunities). My irritation with this author and other such socialist writers is that they never talk about how the poor man also has to display initiative. The poor man reads such writings and comes to the WRONG conclusion that his hard work and initiative will be worth nothing as he will always face invisible barriers to his economic progress. Let's talk about those barriers if they are real and let the poor man meet us mid-way by showing some initiative. Blind sympathy for the poor man is what got Russia into trouble when unscrupulous muscle-men took over the Communist party from idealistic do-gooders.
RE:This is how it starts....
by Amit Kakri on May 04, 2008 03:38 PM Permalink
Dear Gaida, all that you talk about sounds very pleasing to the ears; but pray how is it going to happen? You talk about enabling social mobility? Who is going to do that? My point is the celebrity-cult mongering that is going on is only increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots. Look at the amount of space being devoted to the trivial details of these rich celebrities in order to push up their market value further: is this really necessary?? If you have wealth fine go ahead and splurge, but please do not make a song and dance of it! Not in our country at least.
Having said this on the other hand I entirely agree with your point that we should create an enabling environment for the have nots. But who will create it? The celebrities?? Who are so buy flaunting their wealth? Will they accept and tolerate the poor masses who worship and revere some of their stupidites; come up in life and start questioning and critically evaluating their actions??
About the author, in this book he has not set upon himself the objective of offering suggestions on what should be done, not in this book anyway? May be if give him a suggestion his next book will contain a detailed road map on what needs to be done.
Finally your comparison with Russia is simply irrelevant. Russia was a very closed communist society; when it was suddenly opened up without any thought or plan. To compare what happen in Russia with what is happening here is like comparing apples and oranges.
RE:This is how it starts....
by gaida on May 06, 2008 02:12 AM Permalink
Amit It is good to finally argue with someone who writes in a civilized manner without getting side-tracked. Thank you for that. Enabling social mobility is something the government cannot do with quotas and laws. It has been tried & we know the results. It has only caused resentment that is not going away soon. Enabling Social mobility is a mind-set : Individual Indians have to allow other men to live freely which implies you don't put stumbling blocks in a man's pursuit of better living standards especially when it does not conflict with your freedom. If you are in hiring capacity hire a man based on his talent & skill regardless of his background. Don't hire him out of sympathy that he is poor even if he is not qualified. I will make sure I don't hire my idiot cousin when I run my own business. Basically each of us have to set examples by dealing with another man solely on his merits. If you want to help there are tons of NGOs doing the good work of enabling : ASHA for education, Kiva Microfinance etc. Let us stop expecting the government to help. In the name of doing good they will only serve themselves. Atleast you can pull money out of a badly-performing charity or non-profit but you cannot stop paying taxes to a bad government without being put in jail (contd.. below)
RE:RE:This is how it starts....
by gaida on May 06, 2008 02:14 AM Permalink
About celebrities flaunting their wealth : When Mukesh Ambani builds the world's richest house, the crores of rupees do not vanish into thin air. They go into paying the construction worker who will send his son to college, the architect who will send his son to the U.S, the brick layer, the marketing lady, the carpenter, the mason, the contractor, the plumber etc.. etc.. If Mukesh invested all that money outside the country then I'm sure thousands of construction workers will be out of a job in India.moral of the story: more rich people should compete with each other in spending and flaunting their wealth.. that is the only way more poor people will have jobs Same goes when a rich man spends crores on his daughters's wedding or a celebrity spends lakhs pursuing fun .. the money doesn't go down the drain .. it goes into the pockets of poor people
Arvind. you are really close. disparity is the real issue and hence Raj thackrey, maoist, nithari etc etc. your description of honest man is fantastic too..yes we are a very family oriented society with a master servant set up.. but there something we must ask you..have you also solutions to these problems in your book..because we know whats wrong but we dont know how to fix it..people like you shouldn't just play saint Bartholomew..best of luck for your book.
RE:Arvind
by geela parul on May 03, 2008 07:43 AM Permalink
"disparity is the real issue and hence Raj thackrey, maoist, nithari etc etc."
What.......???????
Nobody is deliberately ignoring them...its just becoming important
Most of the poor people still reside in villages so they cannot see them flaunting.Poor in the cities have started to realize that education holds lot more promise than never before. Poor People have started taking it seriously.
You would know more when you interact with poor rather than reading about them.......
I am surprised... by Adig`s surprise.....there are so many poor people round in the so called rich nations. Even in USA its a myth that the people are rich and happy. Oh so many poor!!! Worse people dont even pity the homeless people (as they are called).
USA is third most populous country after India with the population of Uttar Pradesh......A country which is 4 times bigger than Inida and one third the population.
Even then they could not solve this disparity.
Then I realized that people are not poor only because of the government. Its their own shortsightedness which keeps them poor. Deny education to their children even though there are free schools or schools with nominal amount of fee.
What Arvind ADIG says is totally false.
Statistics show that the crime in India be it in metropolis or of course in villages is high among the illiterates and poor.
In New York most of the crime on the streets is because people want to buy drugs.......surprised.....but that is the fact. Everybody carries a credit card and very few in cash. Therefore, the attacks are more to collect the desired amount for one drag.......
Thirdly, police is harsh on poor people in India and most of them know the story of goose that laid golden eggs and of course the nosy neighbors who would sniff the sudden change in the living lifestyle and inform the police. Mind you they are poor so they cannot afford lot of privacy........That is what keeps poor people honest in Indiahttp://mboard.rediff.com
RE:Hello Arvind........Let me tell you what keeps Poor honest in India!!
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on May 03, 2008 06:48 AM Permalink
wow...you have no idea what arvind is trying to say..i think yu missed classes after class 9th..
RE:Hello Arvind........Let me tell you what keeps Poor honest in India!!
by geela parul on May 03, 2008 07:35 AM Permalink
I am absolutely very clear about what I have written. Why not elaborate where I got it wrong instead of passing smart comments......
RE:Hello Arvind........Let me tell you what keeps Poor honest in India!!
by Amit Kakri on May 03, 2008 01:55 PM Permalink
Geeta Parul, understand what Arvind is trying to say; he's basically referring to the extreme disparity between the haves and have nots IN INDIA. This is not so in the USA; even the poorest of the poor there get food to eat. He is absolutely right when he says even in extreme povery people here don't give up their basic values; human values are non-existant in a crassly materialistic society like USA. That in essence is the difference he has sought to bring out. Further what he is also trying to hightlight is the dangers that lie ahead for indians who are dangerously treading on the path that has been laid by the capitalist west. He is trying to make us aware that what is good for them is not necessarily good for us. These are the things you have missed. Sorry to say; your undertanding on this subject is rather superficial; which probably leads you to reject the authors point of view out of hand.
RE:Hello Arvind........Let me tell you what keeps Poor honest in India!!
by mahabodhi on May 05, 2008 06:29 PM Permalink
@geela parul .you are perfect example of corrupt bourgeiose Kulak mentality!I want to ask you just one question recently it was in the news that one Dinesh Mittal had his brother in law muredered !He was no poor!NEW DELHI: Dinesh Mittal, co-owner of Mittal Gardens, was arrested on Sunday night for plotting the murder of his brother-in-law, Arun Gupta.
He has confessed to giving a "supari" of Rs 10 lakh %u2014 of which Rs 5 lakh was paid in advance %u2014 to get Gupta eliminated, police claimed. Police said two more property dealers from Delhi had been arrested in connection with the murder, but did not divulge their names. Dinesh had allegedly contacted these two property dealers to get rid of his brother-in-law. " Well members can atleast this as prime example of middle class bourgeiose Kulak mentality person in geelu parul !
I agree with ARVIND ADIGA that the very poor and dispossessed will upset the status quo in present day India in the not-too-distant-future.The disparity between the haves and the have nots is steadily increasing and caste based violence is on the increase (the shocking event when a thakur threw a six year old dalit child into the fire for trespassing on his property is a case in point ).This happened in a state where the Chief Minister is a Dalit herself ! How stupid and cruel can people be ? It is no wonder there is an ever increasing number of people in the deprived areas supporting the so called Naxalites and Maoists. The only way to rectify matters is for the educated sector and especially the intelligentsia to take an active part in politics.On TV tonight a person working in the "Silicon Valley" of Bangalore was asked if she would take part in the elections taking place in Karnataka and she replied that she would not as it would not make any difference! It is this sort of apathy that the corrupt politicians are exploiting . On a different note - it is shameful to see the popular film stars are hogging the advertising slots.As I mentioned in one of my other messages , this is only perpetuating and increasing the divide between the very,very rich and the very ,very poor.I don't think there is any other country in the world where the film stars are regarded as gods ! It is high time the youth of India made amends and stopped this hero worshipping !
RE:Ignore The Very Poor And Pay The Price
by Rahul Oberoi on May 03, 2008 04:02 AM Permalink
Your agreeing or not agreeing to anything doesnt make a difference to their lives sir. The bane of our country is NOT politicans or corrupt people. The bane of this country is rotten jerks like you - very capable n intelligent people who know what is wrong with the country and only have arm chair solutions from it. We call it verbal dysentery. Boss.... you want to make a difference - walk the talk. Come back to the country and do your bit. Don't just bark idealistic talk sitting in ur ivory tower. Believe you me - even the dirt poor ion India have an opinion to improve their lives - just that they dont have the powe to do it.You have the power and the knowledge and connections in society to make urself heard. Come back and rooll up your sleevs and lets get to work.
Our country needs people who will bell the cat and make a difference. Not worthless bol bachans sitting and contributing to some other country's development while showing concern and mouthing sugary sweet nonsense about what the country's problems are.
Yes.... I did that myself. Quit my investment banking job in Wall St. to come back to one of the poorest areas of India - Koraput - and today can proudly say - two tribal villages are on the road to self sufficiency. Villages which hadnt seen electricity and were walking 5 kms everyday for a pot of water - have it there in their village - thanks to five solar street lights and 4 hand pumps I have managed to put up. Am not saying I am doinjg anything spectacula
RE:RE:Ignore The Very Poor And Pay The Price
by Ramchunder Maraj on May 04, 2008 12:13 AM Permalink
Rahul Oberoi,I congratulate you in that you have returned to India and are doing your bit to improve the lot of the poor.However, your diatribe in mouthing comments as " verbal dysentery ,rotten jerks like you,sugary sweet nonsense " detract from your good intentions ! Why can't people communicate with others without using offensive language ? For your information,I was not born in India but my grandparent on my father's side and great grandparent on my mother's side came from India. However,I have had an abiding interest in the welfare of India from my early teens.God willing ,I hope to come to India soon and do whatever I can to contribute to its welfare.I have been to India many times but,unfortunately,I don't have any "connections " in high places ! Do carry on the good work that you are doing to uplift the poor.
RE:Ignore The Very Poor And Pay The Price
by ashwin ms on May 03, 2008 06:18 AM Permalink
First of all, you have done a great job, congrats and I hope many people look upon you as you have clearly set an example. But, I disagree with you that the expatriates need to come back to the villages to make a difference. There are tonnes of talented guys in our backyard and by forming a strong coalition will forward thinking NRI's, we can channelize the funds and have community model at the village level head by NRI's friend/relative to run a successful mission. I think today, the people of India are devoid of real human values and indiscriminate society.Its more sensible for NRIs to carry on and succeed in what you are doing and at the same time adopt one village or one school or one child and make a difference.Two simple steps that can eliminate disparity and uneasiness in india are:
1. Make English medium of instuction in all public schools in every vilale from Class 1. 2. Have more community programs and voluntary service as a subject in the curriculum and award people generously who excel in it . The motto should be " no discrimination on any basis - sex, class, language,religion,region,etc.
RE:RE:Ignore The Very Poor And Pay The Price
by Ramchunder Maraj on May 04, 2008 12:45 AM Permalink
Ashwin ms -thanks for your helpful and constructive comments and ideas on how to improve conditions in India .I agree with you that making English the medium of instruction in all public schools would help. The very important message would be that the media can play a tremendous part in sensitising the people about the dangers that India is facing -the ominous intentions of China,the frustration of the dispossessed in India eventually boiling over , the lack of justice because of the deficits in the judiciary and so on .However,they are pandering to the very rich and powerful especially film stars.As I had mentioned in one of my earlier messages , many of my comments to a major newspaper purporting to serve the whole of India have not seen the light of day mainly because I have been critical about their failure to alter the status quo in India. Please read my reply to Rahul Oberoi to understand my status as an NRI and my desire to help as soon as God permits! Kind regards and best wishes !
I cant read the whole article. BUT WHO IS IN DANGER? EVEN IF ITS OUR POLITICIANS, THEY CANT BE TOUCHED AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN POWER, COURTESY OUR SYSTEM & OUR OBEDIENT POLICE PERSONNEL. WHO CARES WHAT HAPPENS TO INDIA, AFTER 30 YRS, LET ALONE 500 YRS? POLITICIANS LIVE FOR TODAY, MAKE MONEY FOR THEIR CHILDREN FOR GENERATIONS TO COME. THATS THEIR RAJ.
