One thing is clear by now... Ahmadinejad speaks more than he means! Whether he speaks sense or not (in some cases he certainly doesn't, eg. dollar being a piece of paper!!), I don't think anybody should take his words very seriously. One thing is sure though - he has placed India in a diplomatically very tough situation. He deliberately did US bashing from New Delhi to create tension in India-US relations. While I may be sympathetic towards some Middle East countries purely out of humanity and sense of righteousness, I do not understand why the Muslim countries need to create a separate identity, why is it that Muslim countries are "Muslim" and not secular like India (which also has a non-Christian majority) or the countries in western Europe? I think this idea of separation from the rest of the world on the basis of religion (and therefore ideology) is what does not go well with most of the remaining world.
RE:RE:What Ahmadinejad has to say ...
by Jack Patel on Apr 30, 2008 07:38 AM Permalink
Thats because, MUSLIM is the only religion which believes non-muslims are BAD people and also enemies. What a stupid philosophy..
People who always are used to criticise, what muslim nations have contributed to the world, should realise that they could not have gone to their Works and schools, hadnt been for the stolen oil from muslim countries . They have been very succesful in demonising the muslim world and keeping them suppressed by investing in suppressive regimes in the muslim countries. At the personal level, the contribution of ISLAM is celarly there in a book which describes a way of life which leads to a very structured family and society. Those who understands this fact, will take advantage of this , those who are ignorant will remain ignorant and keep criticising them . Last but not the least, all the modern luxuries are there because of OIL. Unfortunately people cannot digest this.
RE:Contribution
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:03 AM Permalink
Oil stolen??? are you crazy??? do you understand basics of economics?? the buyer is more important than the seller..maybe not in ur lopsided Islamic economics....listen if the US didnt buy your oil it would be selling for $5 and not $120...it is this screwed up Islamism that has created a price hike in food prices by forcing the US to go for corn to produce Ethanol substitute, which has resulted in scarcity of rice and wheat...Islamic countries are foolish and fanatical and cause disruption of normal business.
RE:Contribution
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 06:18 AM Permalink
Human contribution damned. do not boast of the natural resources. if you do not sell them you will be left with desert sand which nobody wants.
RE:RE:Contribution
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 06:20 AM Permalink
the day oil is exhausted, usa will generate energy from thin air, they have the capability to do it and much more.
RE:Contribution
by Vasanth Srinivas on Apr 30, 2008 09:16 AM Permalink
Technology is much evolved in such a way that we can even get the power from anitmatter / Hydrogen fuels / Bio wastes / nuclear power. Every one is depending on OIL because it is cheap. Once it dries in the land which claims to have the "religion of peace", every "Kafir" country will torn them to "pieces"
RE:Contribution
by vinit tathed on Apr 30, 2008 06:48 AM Permalink
Once oil is exhausted the Arab nations will be back to selling dates... thats wat they can do or maybe manufacturing human bombs
Prince Charles, Heir to the British Monarchy in a recent public speech at Oxford University stated:
"If there is much misunderstanding in the West about the nature of Islam, there is also much ignorance about the debt our own culture and civilisation owe to the Islamic world. It is a failure, which stems, I think, from the straight-jacket of history, which we have inherited. The medieval Islamic world, from central Asia to the shores of the Atlantic, was a world where scholars and men of learning flourished. But because we have tended to see Islam as the enemy of the West, as an alien culture, society, and system of belief, we have tended to ignore or erase its great relevance to our own history."
RE:Quoting Prince Charles...
by Naradmuni on Apr 30, 2008 10:51 AM Permalink
Prince Charles has to thank Islam as one Islami(Dodi) became an excuse to eliminate princess Diana and his way was clear to get marry with his erstwhile girlfriend Camilla Parker Bowels. Dude,hope you have understood the reason why Charles is expressing his grattitude for the Islamas one Islami has come to his rescue
Ahmanijad fangs are out becoz he has oil. Instead of using the money earned from oil to improve the life of his people he is trying to divide the world into supporters of america and haters of america. its not going to work. america will exist no matter recession or no recession but iran will be forgotten once there oil well dries up. What has iran done for the world, nothing. All good things enjoyed by the present generation has originated from US of A. You name it, telephone, aeroplane, TV, satellite tv, mobile phone service, fax and then the great communication revolution internet, which has changed the world. Whats irans contribution any of these named or anything else. before accusing america, he should think how/what iran can contribute for the world and humanity at large. We do not agree with everything what US does, certainly not but there is no country which can come anywhere near US or there way of life and there continuous strive for inventions. so ahmanijad and others like him should earn the respect and not demand respect.
RE:Iran a big zero
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 05:23 AM Permalink
It can only be called a SAD IRONY -Muslims who laid the foundations of cryptoanalysis now stand accused of not contributing to internet.Probably the whole internet business it self wouldnt be here if it is not for cryptograpgy and cryptoanalysis.
Internationally Known Author and Cryptoanalyst Simon Singh in his latest Newyork Times best seller - The Code Book - explains this in detail
It says the following
....However, in addition to employing ciphers, the Arab scholars were also capable of destroying ciphers. They in fact invented cryptanalysis....
RE:Iran a big zero
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 05:43 AM Permalink
Muslims shud stop living on past glories, this is a new world where competition is the name of the game. If muslims continue to put islam or their faith ahead and foremost they will continue to fall in the quagmire. Besides, in ancient times every country has to offer something or the other, india invented zero, china invented calculator, greeks invented cosmology. If muslims are backward today its becoz they are so obsessed with their faith that faith has blinded them. There are 56 muslim countries in the world and they all cry citing the reason of palestine, kashmir, chechenya, serbia and consider the world is trying to get them. If they want to be in the comity of nations they shud put faith within the four corners of their home.
RE:Iran a big zero
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:07 AM Permalink
abey Bala whats wrong with u man?? your mullahs stop girls from going to school..your mullahs destroys libraries and schools, and books..your people are so narrow minded that they go and riot because someone writes a book or draws cartoons..and you want us to believe that Muslims are closeted Newtons & Einsteins?? are you crazy??? the Islamic society can never sustain academia, there are too many contradictions in your religion and yuor moderates are spineless enunuchs who never say a word against mullahs. The ONLY place where Muslims live a dignified and educated life is India because of Hindu influence.Its only in India that Muslims take up music and the fine arts and get educated...not even in UK do Muslims go to school.
RE:Iran a big zero
by Nostra Damus on Apr 30, 2008 04:10 PM Permalink
The Arabs were doing fine as long as they followed Islam with intelligence and compassion. That is why they were able to invent so many navigation instruments, conquer half of Europe, yet did not molest christians or jews. The day they started becoming fanatics, they lost their compassion, their learning and the ability to govern instead of killing.
RE:Iran a big zero
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 05:29 AM Permalink
What kind of digital imaging and modern gadgets would we be having if AlHazen has not made the breakthroughs in optics.
Read the Olympics (Digital media equipment manufacturer website for references)
Just check the Olumpus website - for all the science behind this cutting edge-you have Alhazen(search for Alhazen in Olympus companys website)
so it is absolutly wrong to be too fascinated with US and too obsessed with hatred against Muslims.Modern science runs on the wheels of these great Muslim inventions
RE:Iran a big zero
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 05:35 AM Permalink
balaord, I'm moving my debate with you to this thread. I don't think The West regards the Arabs as backwards, since they do not recognize the latter's ancient contributions to their knowledge. All your quotes carry a western lineage, which proves out my point. The bigger issue is where is this sense of intelligence (you quote about) in today's Arab world? Who would stop them if they attempted to improve their own science and wellbeing? Why are they always at loggerheads with each other apart from the West. The US vs Al Queda squabbles is only a decade and half old. There were always frictions going on among them earlier. Iran vs Iraq is a major example. Iraq over taking Kuwait is not forgotten either. Turkey has its own Kurdistan headache. The Europeans seem to be having at least one stable union these days, where apart from the Serbian tangle, they do not seem to carry any major issue within them (unless Russia backfires yet again in future). Why can't the intelligent Arab world sort out its own problems? Why do they always keep awaiting Americas fall before they will be able to live peacefully?
RE:RE:Iran a big zero
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 05:51 AM Permalink
You said it Pankaj, who is stoping 56 islamic nations to advance in whatever field they like. China has emerged from no where and the world is now admiring them. India is also taking giant leaps and the world is slowly accepting them. But islamic countries are too obsessed with their religion that they are falling deeper and deeper into the quagmire.
RE:Iran a big zero
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 06:20 AM Permalink
Bro, you can't argue with somebody who has decided to cling to the fringe opinion. All what he says does have a sense within it, but it hardly matters when you look at the way Arabs carry themselves out. They will keep on crying its all America's fault...let us see where they end up by beating this line...btw, my time to sign off now. balaord won't. He seems to be carrying some mission!
RE:Iran a big zero
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 05:47 AM Permalink
Iran vs Iraq is a very good example how the post world war implicit colonization of west has wrecked this region. I am sure you wont deny the obvious which is US helping the dictator saddam and wanting to hurt Iran through proxy. Just go back a little bit in the history you will find many analogies-Why north and south korea were at logger heads and let us keep in mind the korean war of US.
As to these exagerrated impact of current conflicts I only want to say what Graham Fuller the vice chairman of CIA told in his report,which is this
...He notes that the principal horrors of the 20th century came almost exclusively from strictly secular regimes. Leopold II of Belgium in the Congo, Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin and Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. It was Europeans who visited their world wars twice upon the rest of the world -- two devastating global conflicts with no remote parallels in Islamic history...
RE:RE:Iran a big zero
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:12 AM Permalink
Islam is purely unscientific and based on primitive Arab political system. Its a copy of Judaic texts which Mohammad claimed as Islamic and he inserted himself as the Prophet. how can Islam support science when it claims the world started with Islam in the Middle east and there were so many prophets who came with messages?? there were no prophets in Incas Mayas China Greece or even Indian civilizations...Islam stifles great civilizations like Irans and Egypts and made them into bloodthirsty jihadiests....it broke up India and Pakistan today degenerated into a terror hub with 40000 madrassas where they teach how to kill Hindus jews and Christians..but Balaord the Islamic propagandist will have us believe otherwise.
It talks about The father of chemistry Jabir Ibn Hayam.Ofcourse whole history is now rewritten and these illustrious gianst names are omiited.For people who wonder about bias -should ask themselves what happened in this 150 years between 1873 and 2008?
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 04:30 AM Permalink
Muslim learned from hindus, have you heard the word rasayan, dhatu. te mathematics also they learned from hindus.
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 04:36 AM Permalink
Yes.I agree ,but to say Muslims just copied it from India is worse than a lie.This is the same lie which many europeans throw at muslims saying they copied from Greek.
Can you answer thses question if you dispute?
Arabic was the language of science for 1000 years and thats why books from other languages and other countries got translated to arabic. When there is a center of intellectual activity,it is only natural that this happens!!!
Have you windered why Indian number system has to go through Arabs? why on earth all the so called Greek knowldge has to be translated to arabic and then to Latin? Is Arabia very near to London that Greece?
Why no books were directly translated from sanskrit to chinnese..or sanskrit to greek?
It is simple-Arabic was the language of science and thats why it took that route..
This is not to underestimate the ingenuity of Indian mathematics but you cant have a simpleton view and say everything is copied as if Muslims had huge terrabyte hard disk
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:17 AM Permalink
Arabic was never the language of science..a brief period under the umayyads in Damascus did see a flowering of translations from other ancient cultures like Greece China & India...Europe at that time was under the equally dangerous religion Chrisitianty which as Emperor Julian said destroys the thinking mind...Islam is even more stifling as it destroys all debates and opposition by blasphemy laws...while Christianty yielded to Reformation, Islam further degenerated into a violent culture...the reason is inherent violence in Islam (3 of its first 4 caliphs were murdered), and the fact that Islam's prophet Mohammad was more of a warrior than a man of God.
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by rohit on Apr 30, 2008 04:50 AM Permalink
Language of masses and Language of science ...I think there is a difference. Vedic mathematics and Science is the oldest and hence no two ways about it...
RE:RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 04:55 AM Permalink
1) Greeks learned from hindus. -- All the greek gods and godesses, starts comets, constellation, astrology were all in india. India has been the teacher of greeks.
2)Before islam, hindus wee teacher of arabs.
3)biggest sanskrit library is in england and germany.
Before romans knew of 0, they could count up to only 1000 = M , which is represented by an M. With 0 their real development started.
Sanskrit is the oldest and most pious language to represent knowledge. Sanskrit is the only language of divine origin created by brahma(the creator god).
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 05:01 AM Permalink
You got me wrong.Arabic became the language of science because Islam transcended all national and language boundries.Arabic in itself is not holy.A muslim who belives that GOD has revealed his message to all people of different lanaguge will never mock a particular lanague. Prophet Muhammed is just the final messenger and he just happenes to be a Arab.Thats all. There is nothing holy about arabic itself
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 05:39 AM Permalink
What muhammad found out is copy of christianity and jusdaism, Muslims follow the old testament, they are just like jews.
Veds have nothing to do with ibraheeeeem. who is actually anti god. ie vishnu and shiv.
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 06:01 AM Permalink
how can knowledge be erased, i do not understand.
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 06:04 AM Permalink
I didnt say knowldge is erased.I meant the history of contribution is erased.May be I should have worded it correctly
RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by john jacob on Apr 30, 2008 06:23 AM Permalink
who has stopped you if were so advanced. did your religion take you down or what are factors of your continued backwardness
RE:RE:How gradually the contibution of Muslims were erased??
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:19 AM Permalink
I am very sure that it is people like Balaord who with his excuses for Islam has stifled its reformation.. we see this phenomenon in all Muslim countries where the moderates run away to UK and US and talk big there.. as long as there are apologists liek Balaord Islam will continue to make our lives hell on earth.
One needs to be reminded of history of /aryavrat/hindustana/india.. that no too far back in history Nadir Shah from IRAN came and the created slaughter in Delhi & looted treasures of India including Takht-e-taus/Mor Singhasan/Peacok Throne and took to IRAN, which now rests in Turkey's Topkapi palace.
Leaders be very very careful in dealing with both West And Islam. We have had bad experience with both of them.
Past 5000 Years Of history World Butchery/Bully Olympics :- ----------------------------------
PLATINUM MEDAL GOES TO TRUE (SHIVA) ----------------------------------- Capable of destroying whole universe and creations in a wink.
GOLD MEDAL ----------- America/Germany (Killed 400 Million people past 300 years)- I AM the Jealous GOD. OBEY ME.
SILVER MEDAL ------------- AL ISLAM(Killed 100 Million people past 1400 years)
You are not GOD, no god but i know the true GOD. I order you to conver or else I put a sowrd through your neck old style for abomination in the name of GOD you kaafir follwing kufr. If you dont follow islam you are doing kufr.
BRONZE MEDAL ------------- MAO/STALIN (Killed 40 Million people past 50 years) - Dont talk GOD in front of me, I kill lot of ppl, pray me I am GOD.
COPPER MEDAL ------------- SIKHS - Slaughtered a million muslims during partition.
TIN MEDAL IS SHARED BY -----------------------
Hindu KSHATRIYA/RAJPUT (4 Million people over past 2500 years) -- BanglaMuslim (500,000 over 50 years) South East Asian Kings
RE:REMEMBER HISTORY .. 200 years back.
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 04:11 AM Permalink
FINALLY THE NEVER BORN, AJANMA, ABSOLUTE MASTER OF EVERYTHING TRUE GODS(SHIVA AND VISHNU) :- Absolute, Bully Of All the bullies, they build,preserve and kill all , no one can kill them, they dissolve/recreate take avatar themselves of their own will when time come.
THEY CREATE, PRESERVE AND KILL from nothing to nothing when time come, master butchers when time comes. They take birth for this purpose only. And kill all the killers so after these master butchers come, there is peace for very very long time, when they come human mind changes it thinking to follow dharma.
They are they rightful REMORSELESS ABSOLUTE MASTER BUTCHERS, the butcher who butchers the butchers, and hunters who hunt the hunters.
RE:REMEMBER HISTORY .. 200 years back.
by vr vinod on Apr 30, 2008 05:08 AM Permalink
what do u want to convey here. bullying is the only one topic u have taken it so far.keep the context in mind. dont confuse people. humanity is above all religions. One should feel & act humanely. middle age barbarism is over. This is the age of reason.If u have further doubts read this "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. u can find synopsis in wikipedia. and there is a video also in google videos.
RE:REMEMBER HISTORY .. 200 years back.
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 05:30 AM Permalink
After eating 100 rats, the cat is going on a pilgrimage. It is the law of karma, what you sow.. so shall you reap.
Your karmas WILL come back to you. ISLAMS karmas are coming back to them.
RE:RE:REMEMBER HISTORY .. 200 years back.
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 05:23 AM Permalink
Bully and godlieness religion goes together. Bulliness gives you ability to control ppl by force.
So it is the prime force in godly character. Bully produces fear/submission in bullied.
It is the source of all godliness. You know where bully comes from.
BULL - Bully is one tries to conquer the force of bull by force.
And shiva is the rider of the BULL, so bull is the easily controlled by shiv, so he is the only real bully. Rest only try.
RE:REMEMBER HISTORY .. 200 years back.
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 04:05 AM Permalink
They are they rightful REMORSELESS ABSOLUTE MASTER BUTCHERS, the butcher who butchers the butchers, and hunters who hunt the hunters.
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 04:05 AM Permalink
One can see Rediff doing this often, trying its best to provoke heated arguments, and hence win over a greater volume of traffic. In fact, their headlines can be termed as juicy nine out of ten time, indicating how much they cared about getting hits and not conducting unbiased reporting.
RE:RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 04:18 AM Permalink
Pankaj Mohan - you have mentioned why arabs didnt benefits from the science and why west benefited from it.I think question basically comes from the assumption that west was like this for 1000 years-They are a dominant force only in the past 2 centuries mainly through colonizations. There was period prior to this and here you find the details from with the National Science teachers association of USA (The committe that authors school text books)
...By coming to appreciate the immense contributions of Arab-Islamic scientists and scholars, students develop a deeper understanding of the foundations of modern science....
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 04:37 AM Permalink
balaord, you have missed out my point yet again. The fact is, not only the West, but also the Arabs had colonized many other countries. Why would Indonesia or even Indian Muslims exist otherwise. The fact is, British came in India after Arabs had invaded it, yet they are far ahead in modern science compared to any Arab country. At least, give them credit for being able to continue with their research and not be wholly religious minded (religions carry their own doctrines which will interpreted in ten different ways by ten different people), which is why they are leading the world in the present day order.
RE:RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 04:47 AM Permalink
Pankaj - Can you give me one -just one -evidence that a Muslim army ever set foot on Indonesia? It is historical fallacy that Muslims converted others at the sword and indonesia is the standing proof that defies this propoganda. I am surprised that you dragged Indonesia to exhibit this phenomena - which is actually a proof to the contrary
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 07:23 AM Permalink
Bala the bluff master..converting by sword is fundamental to Islam....simply read the poems of Iqbal where he exhorts Muslims to emulate Ghazni and Aurangzeb to destroy idols and convert infidels. Ilsam is designed to convert and establish DArul Islam...even in India its only where Muslim rule extended (contrary to Muslim claims India was never under Muslims wholly except for Akbar who was hardly Muslim anyway and had a Rajput Mughal coalition)..Islam completely obliterated Iranian religions...Bala lies- even to this day the British mullahs openly say that ALL non Muslims are GUILTY for not being Islamic adn can therefore be killed....numerous surahs tell how infidels should be killed. Bala you are a dangerous Islamist
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 04:59 AM Permalink
What about India?
PS - I'm not going to get carried into this research based debate, since I see no point in wasting my time doing it. There are some simpler issues which need answer. Why beat the bygone, when the present stares you and tells a very different story? Why not try to improve in today's time rather than keep worrying who lead in the ancient science and mathematics? And I'm saying this by keeping the Arab world in mind, since they have all sorts of problems with the West. these days.
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 05:09 AM Permalink
It is all too comfortable for many to ignore a long history of Western colonialism in the Middle East while blindly identifying Muslim and their religion as the key source of global tension.Part of wests outlook on the word is fueled by the supremacy in todays science which is built by many civilizations particularly islamic one which they riducle as backward.I see the solution to todays problem lies in appreaciating the legacy of others from which they built thier own edifice.
RE:No other newspaper carried this article other than rediff
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 05:06 AM Permalink
Btw, thanks for telling me about Indonesia. Never bothered to check out its history before. It sounds interesting.
