these guys are the pits... an indian telling a porki to come off it when he mentions indian kargil widows!!!!! i only wish to meet this bugger once and spit on his face before breaking his face.
RE:an indian saying
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 05:06 PM Permalink
Piyush, we as Indians never wanted a division,it happened and we got hurt by it. We should be proud of not letting India be defined on the basis of religion, because that would be too small a definition for our mighty nation. India is beyond definition and beyond religion and beyond politics. What makes this country so great is that me and you,might have such diverse opinions but tomorrow if "our nation" needs us,we both may join hands and stand next to each other. And about the kargil widows, like I said you may be right, its just a different opinion.
RE:an indian saying
by piyush bakshi on Nov 06, 2007 06:01 PM Permalink
dude, ur talk is full of rhetoric that politicians delight in.. "mighty nation", "beyond definition", "beyond religion", "beyond politics"then again, just my opinion.
RE:an indian saying
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 06:22 PM Permalink
well I might sound like that, cant help it,but if you want me to say that we should kick out every other religion from India,i cannot say that,if you want me to over react on the article and say that it is indeed degrading to indians,i wont say that too,because then I would be looking keenly at too minute a detail just to find something to object too.And would be arm twisting and manipulating the meaning of the article and its word for which are politicians are famous for. The reason I used those words was because you made just a small fact of life that even people with my opinion can exist in India, I think its not a small fact but a big enough reality as anyone else's existence. And I think when you talk about your country, every word would fall short of its description. Just explaining my opinion.
RE:RE:an indian saying
by piyush bakshi on Nov 06, 2007 08:41 PM Permalink
where have i said anything about kicking about other religions.. just read whats written and do not impute meaning to statements.. if anything, hindus have gone down from 34% in pakistan to 2%, its worse in bangladesh and in india, hindus have been driven out of their own homeland in kashmir.
and please relax,people with your mindset are the opinion influencers in this country, though not in a majority but in places that matter
RE:an indian saying
by Venkat N on Nov 06, 2007 06:52 PM Permalink
Mr.Piyush,
I think your "this bugger" is the Indian referred to by the author of the article, who commended Mush for resembling old Bolly heroes. If so, I too share your feelings, though not the reaction.
RE:an indian saying
by piyush bakshi on Nov 06, 2007 08:36 PM Permalink
no, when i said this bugger, i meant the author who has chosen to be insensitive enough to put that piece of information here (true or imagined, i dont know), its crude to say that indian women started watching PTV to get a glimpse of the macho general. and he reminds us of our war widows and we tell him "come off it".. thats plain bullshit. porkis cannot stop hurting our feelings ever. and unfortunately it is lost on us.
RE:RE:an indian saying
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 09:31 PM Permalink
ahh feels kind of stupid, I thought venkat meant me as "the bugger" as I was trying to have a reasonable debate with you(Piyush)..sorry to venkat and I guess I would report my own statement for abuse....anyway piyush its nothing against you brother, what you think is right and I am sure you felt hurt by the words used in the article. I would never question that. and people like me being at the places that matter, would always have a person like you to keep them in check. For me the last statement you wrote makes you win the argument(the one right above this one)and it made a lot of sense. Have a great day piyush.
RE:an indian saying
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 04:29 PM Permalink
The article here is not trying to degrade any of the Kargil Widows, all he is trying to do is compare their plight and sorrows with that of pakistan at this given time. Piyush things just dont improve by over reacting, just read the article again. But its your opinion and I am no right then you are.
RE:an indian saying
by piyush bakshi on Nov 06, 2007 04:38 PM Permalink
he is comparing (as you put it) by giving an example and am saying that example cannot be true, would you as an indian tell anybody "come off it" if he mentions kargil war widows to you and then say musharraff looks like a matinee idol.
but then again, its possible. this is india. nowhere else in the world can u divide a country in the name of religion like what happeed to us and still be left with more muslims here than there.
dont have anything against muslims but the rationale for dividing this country was specious and faulty and the thought has hurt millions of indians ever since
It would be icing on cake to watch 'Uncle' in bollywood. Would love to see uncle being one up on our own amitabh. Generalsaab please come to mumbainagari and set up your tent. There are scores others who have taken lead roles from your country and are doing well. Looking forward to seeing you. For once, Pakistanis will be very happy.
America only want disturbed pakistan ....only disturbed and unstable pakistan is useful to Americans Presidents to use against India,China,Russia and Rest of South Asia...Its all been done by them...
RE:Mess Up pakistan
by Rajiv Shivashankar on Nov 06, 2007 04:49 PM Permalink
Pakistan has only itself to blame. You cannot disturb the whole neighbourhood without it coming back to hit you.
see this article and the writer's mentality is what non muslims and indians find hurtful, distrustful and distasteful.
he has to remind us of kargil where we lost our young and some of india's finest. the macho aspect comes thru when he mentions his "commando general" LOL. funny joker.
the commando general who almost got his country bombed to the stone age by the US. indian women watching PTV to see a glimpse of the "commando general" yeah sure.
bad attitude and one which can only increase the fear and distrust of those with whom u r ostensibly trying to build bridges with.
RE:prompted to leave the article half way
by Ganesh Parameswaran on Nov 07, 2007 03:03 PM Permalink
Piyush, Please read the article again and carefully. Do read between the lines. It is a heady mix of pathos and hilarity. You got it totally wrong when you say that non-Muslims and Indians find it hurtful, distrustful and distastful. Just read the posts in reply by our own Indians.
RE:Wait for death sentence Mr. Musharraf
by prakash on Nov 06, 2007 04:26 PM Permalink
You are wrong Rajat. Musharraf will survive till eternity just because he is regularly consulting with our Lalu Prasad about how to survive.
RE:Wait for death sentence Mr. Musharraf
by Narinder Kumar Bazura on Nov 06, 2007 04:07 PM Permalink
This is the tradition of Muslim ruling country. If next CHIEF OF THE ARMY STAFF will be appointed, he will difinitily kill or hang Mr Mush and process may continue.
RE:Wait for death sentence Mr. Musharraf
by Joy on Nov 06, 2007 04:17 PM Permalink
Not at all. Amercian military will capture him and a court case (drama) will be conducted and ultimately he will be hanged like Saddam Husain. Jai Bharat Mata, Jai Bush, Jai Pakistan.
RE:Wait for death sentence Mr. Musharraf
by Vijay alias Teesmar Khan on Nov 06, 2007 04:39 PM Permalink
You are saying Jai for both Bharat Mata and Pakistan. How this is possible?
Hanif I am no authority to even comment on this article,its beautifully written, a joy to read and does make a strong point. Its like reading a Khushwant Singh's short story, and with that I am complimenting you to the highest.
But theirs this other side to the article, Musharraf. I did get your analogy about the drunk uncle,and until now,i always thought that god has chosen my life for such cinematic moments but I guess their are more drunk uncle's in this world then I thought. But anyway this guy, Musharraf might seem to be going in the wrong direction but somehow I feel that Pakistan has taken a turn in its life where nothing but dictatorship can control things, and by that I mean a real strong one. Extremism is on a unimaginable rise in Pakistan and even if democracy is put into a place, it would be a matter of time when a Imam or a shah would be elected to power. The pakistan would become a democracy but a democracy ruled by the mosque and religion not by its people. Musharraf has no doubt lost his grip but I dont think a benarzir or a sharif could do any better in the present situation. Whatever he said,might sound stupid but I think he meant a lot of it. A boss would no more then anyone if his authority is challenged and being ruined and someone else has taken his place. He knows it well that all his actions are being challenged now. Continued--
RE:Strange Article
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
The extremism which is a common occurrence where ever religion is given a priority, has broken all boundaries and become more violent and extreme. Pakistan in my opinion is on its way to be ruled by taliban or become another iraq. We all know what happened at Lal Masjid,so he was right to quote about Islamabad.
Anyway my point is not to support Musharraf or anyone, but being from India, everything that happens next door is to watched very keenly, a small change their might make some change here. Pakistan in my opinion has to be ruled by a strict hand, but not by a religious fugure, not by a democratic prime-minister who are more concerned about filling their pockets but by someone who really wants to get rid of this. Pakistan is on a verge of collapse and in this extreme circumstances only extreme actions can help. The worst thing for Indian would be,to see pakistan get controlled by some religious fanatics who have no respect for life. Anyway good article.
RE:Strange Article
by Vijay alias Teesmar Khan on Nov 06, 2007 04:44 PM Permalink
Why do you think a Shariff or Benazir could not do better. At least they would have support of their masses. Musharraf does not enjoy support of anybody except his army. At the time he overthrown Nawaz Shariff, Nawaz was enjoying two third majority in the parliament.
RE:RE:Strange Article
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 04:55 PM Permalink
Vijay I said that because pakistan has come a long way since Nawaz Shariff was overthrown. Its not the same pakistan atleast to me. Democracy is good but how can you get good leaders elected when the local population is being scared by extremism. You know its a scenario like we get a politician elected in India,which might have a huge criminal record but he still wins. He keeps getting elected again and again.And one of the reason that happens is the people who elect him are scared. I am not sure if I am able to explain you correctly but I think right now the need in pakistan is not to cure the infection but to eradicate the disease itself. take care "Khan".
RE:Strange Article
by Kabeer on Nov 06, 2007 04:26 PM Permalink
Dear SS, Now I have read almost all of your posts. I know that Musharraf is a great patriot. He thinks from his heart and head. How can anyone forget that he took an unpopular choice of going with the US immediately post 911? If he wanted to be popular he would have pleased his people-but it would have been shortlived. Pak would have been invaded by the US and India (remember those hot parliament attack times)
However, I still feel that the number of extremists and their sympathisers are still in a minority though the extremists actions are significant. It is always the shouting brigade that gets noticed-however it must be remembered that the silent are most of the times are a majority. It is only the NWFP that got infested. Punjab and SIndh are more or less peaceful and civilised. Balochi ofcourse not! But Punjab and SIndh are the lifelines of Pak!
Regarding a strong and a benevolent dictator remember the fallacy of French Revolution. The French after pulling down monarchy chose Napolean as Emperor the very instituion they wanted to demolish and bring democracy!
Benevolanet dictator tempts following generations that they can become one of him/her.
A free and fair election may initially bring right wing sympathisers but in the long run the system finds its equilibrium. It is a slow process; but it is a right process and a sure one.
Punjab and SIndh are the most populous ones and a free election should bring responsible representatives.
RE:Strange Article
by S S on Nov 06, 2007 04:47 PM Permalink
well you could be right Kabeer, I only talk about pakistan from an Indian prospective,which might not be the correct one. I would wish that pakistan is as democratic as any country in the world and things get better their. You are may also be right when you say things are not as bad as they seem, we always get to know whats wrong in Pakistan.But I just think that pakistan does need sometime to return to democracy. Theirs a lot going on which needs to be controlled. I have read about NSFP, but any infection in the body, if kept for long would in turn poison the whole system. In my opinion Pakistan needs a real strict hand not on its general population but to curb this extremism that is slowly spreading its tentacles among the common population in Pakistan. Lal masjid was a major disaster because it happened in a major city. A stable and democratic pakistan is not only good for Pakistan but India too. Remember its never the local population or "amm janta" that wants war or fights war..its always the leaders. So a democratic Govt. elected by the "People" would looks for solutions not more problems.
RE:Strange Article
by piyush bakshi on Nov 06, 2007 08:44 PM Permalink
porkistan's attitude to india has nothing to do with religious extremism.. their nation was formed on the basis on illogical religious extremism. they have fought with india under democratically elected govts and dictators, so where is the question of mullahs making a difference.
it is the common man's mindset over there which needs to change. let them realize that the best interests of this region lie in an undivided india
Shedding uniform will not solve the problem. Rice and her US comrades should think of a viable solutions. It was they who created this frankenstein of terror and Pak has become its progeny. There has to be education, dialogues, relaxation in foreign policies and economic transition. It is good for world and moreso for India to retain Musharaff as its present considering the current situation, else Pakistan which is the mecca of Nuclear arsenals, well organised and ready to use, will fall into wrong hands of malicious mullahs who spell doom not only for Pakisthan but for whole world
