All agreements that helps us to grow stronger in nuclear energy/ power and armament are welcomed.Let there be no such clause that Mr Dick will come an inspect any installation at any time they choose and we will provide them red carpet welcome. Let us not forget that India has crossed each hurdle that America put on us that includes supply of Super Computer to stop our nuclear progress. Since they know it very well that even without the support of USA or any other country India will achieve what it needs so thay want us to sign an agreement. What will be worst scenario if agreement is not signed? We will take longer time to make those progress. Let the government consult the people who are involved in the nuclear science research and give due weightage to their expectations and reservations in the agreement.
US seems have learnt from India as to how to make a five-year plan of a top hi-fi treaty. The fear is that leaders of top two democracies must not fail in formalizing verbosity by the lawyers, for the lawyers (hope, people are not belied in the process). Any way, hope sustains the policitical parties in democracies. One gain from the agreement is that strong nuclear forces have strengthened the bonds of friendship between the oldest and largest democracies of the world. Long live Indo-US friendship. Friendlier than though: Dr. RC YashRoy
RE:nuclear energy
by arungopal agarwal on Jul 16, 2007 12:29 PM Permalink
Due to its very very high capital cost, and non-availability for higher watts.
why we want to talk to usa for our nuclearisation. we should stop them to have any doscussion. we suppose to talk united nation and withour friends country like russia. just kick_back usa and inform them not to have any nuclear talk with india.
People, we should understand that treatment of Nuclear waste and subsequent enrichment to create nuclear fuel is a BUSINESS PROPOSITION and NOT a Technology thing.
The N Deal here, if you read between the lines, would give India or Russia, whichever succeeds in clinching it, sole or almost monopolistic rights to treat Nuclear Waste and convert it into fuel.
Every nation is not given the rights to treat and convert N Waste. What we are talking here is billions of US$ worth of conversions and reconversions and re-re-conversions, which will make us a lot of money, while we provide the same service Dirt Cheap to the biggest Buyer, the US. That is what this deal is about.
India is a formidable opponent when it comes to a battle. One because the US cannot survive even if it defeats India in war. They depend on us for their essential commodities and services.
This is why they are striving to please India too, when it comes to these small fry benefits, so that they continue to enjoy Indian support.
However, the catch would always be that India would be exploited by the US, just like Saudi Arabia is now...well think about it...while we pay $1.2 for a litre of Petrol, the US citizen pays $1 for 3.785 litres...hahahaha one-fourth the price...how? They set up the first refining facility in Saudi Arabia...Aramex if I am not mistaken.
They would have the same benefits from this deal...that's about it.
RE:There are aspects to this N Deal
by AlbertPinto on Jul 16, 2007 11:43 AM Permalink
Current gas price in california is around $3.14 per gallan which is around $0.83 per liter.
RE:There are aspects to this N Deal
by gatzzz on Jul 16, 2007 12:12 PM Permalink
If you know anything about retail petrol/gas pricing then you wouldnt be talking shit. The price of the oil is governed by lot of factors.
US companies own lot of oil wells and refineries in Middle East, South/North America, Alaska etc. Almost all of the oil US buys is bought in the New York Oil bourse in their own currency. Secondly considering the infrastructure US has built, the cost of transportation is severly low.
All these factors lower down the cost of a gallon of gas sold at retail outlets across the nation.
Dear Friends, France has the largest number of Nuclear reactors used for power applications. Do we need americans, Why not ally with the russians as everytime they have helped us and we have lot of russian technlogy been used. If we need to upgrade then use the French as they are commercially producing power and supplying in whole Europe using nuclear technology.
RE:De we need Americans
by gatzzz on Jul 16, 2007 12:15 PM Permalink
The problem is that, US has imposed sanctions on India. To maintain good relations with US, neither France nor Russia can move forward to ally with India in terms of nuclear cooperation. Thus its imperative that we have to break those sanctions with US and then move forward with France and Russia in terms of importing technology and nuclear fuel.
The Americans are trying to con India, to take away our nuclear freedom. The Hyde Act passed by the US Congress has imposed rules that would amount to capping India and denying its ability to conduct N-tests. Look at how frustrated the Russians are with the West -- they have now withdrawn from the CFE Treaty. This is because the West tries to impose fake deals to con others. India should forget about this deal, and instead now approach a frustrated Moscow and ask them for more nuclear cooperation. This will show the West that India can't be pushed around.
looking at the history, USA is certianly a very selfish country n anti india and does evErything to exclusively suit their interests so if they have offered to go into some kind of Nuclear Pact that means there must be some longterm selfish interest of USA in India... what i mean to say people of india should not believe indian politicians when they call it an act of friendship and projecting it as an accomplishment of their hopeless government. these politicians are pigs who are hell bent to sell India for their short term goal of remaining in power by whichever means possible.. in short they are least concerned for the longterm interests of INdia and its future generations.. so people of india should be extra careful while endorsing 123 agreement and I would appeal to the atomic research community n scientists to scrutinize minutely whatever India agrees to .. i mean indian hopeless politicians agree to in 123 agreement and should tell the public through media n inform the public about longterm or any hazards of this agreement.. especially this is important as there is very less awareness about it among general public..
RE:USA is an extremely selfish country so India shud be extra careful...
by SRINIVASA GOWDA on Jul 16, 2007 11:13 AM Permalink
I agree with you entirely.. Seems moderator too.. Thanks.. 123 agreement has been differed selse ahy Indian Scientific and Strategist community oject to the deal. When usa can agree to allow Russia to reuse spent fuel why not India? WHY? WHY? I want this to be mainly clarified by usa.
RE:USA is an extremely selfish country so India shud be extra careful...
by gatzzz on Jul 16, 2007 12:23 PM Permalink
coz Russia is a nuclear non-proliferation nation. Thus it can reuse spent fuel. According to the NP treaty, Russia doesnt use spent fuel to make Nuclear weapons or WMDs. India is not one of those nations. Thus we cannot reuse spent fuel.
RE:USA is an extremely selfish country so India shud be extra careful...
by arungopal agarwal on Jul 16, 2007 11:21 AM Permalink
Please tell us who is not selfish, In life, it is balanceing, We are to see our interest and US to his own. We badly need energy for our fields and industry, No communist country or under developed nation can give except and advanced nations. To be prejudiced with an advanced nation is not a healthy sign, of course, no compromise on national dignity.
RE:RE:USA is an extremely selfish country so India shud be extra careful...
by arungopal agarwal on Jul 16, 2007 12:26 PM Permalink
Dear Dayal Ji, Thanks for your enlightment. you will agree that in future, everyone will be nuclear country, may take another 100 years, a very small period in a nations history. As traditional energy sources will be exhaused. Nobody will be in a position to dictate. Otherwise, irritation, exploitation, selfishness, etc .,etc., is a part of life.
Yes, that, in the final analysis, is the absolute truth about this deal. I am not saying this from a layman or a vested bureaucrat or a venal politician's point of view. I am talking from a purely technological point of view. To emphasise it without any doubt, INDIA DOESN'T NEED THIS DEAL AT ALL!! It will be a great tragedy for our country if this UPA government is allowed to sign this deal and completely surrender our Nuclear independence. What are the real reasons for coming to this decision? 1. America's civil nuke technology is 'pealeolythic' in all technical and scientific terms. To simply state it is simply primitive! YES THAT IS THE REAL TRUTH. 2. There is no civil nuke R&D base worth the name in the US. There fission technology is far behind that of India. And there is no fast breeder or fusion technology research knowledge base of any significant worth there. Here again India is an international leader. 3. India hardly generate 10,000 MW of Nuke power. Even adding another 30,000 MW would hardly meet 10% of India's total energy needs. So Nuke technology definitely does not have a great role to play in our energy security. But India's current independent civil nuke R&D base is an absolutely great national asset and of greatest strategic importance. We should not mortgage it for nothing in return. The American plan to press India to sign 123 Agreement is for its own security reasons and not an iota for India's energy security. They want to steal Indi's Fast Breeder T
RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by vikas sethi on Jul 16, 2007 11:41 AM Permalink
If deal with US is signed, there is no compulsion on India to buy from US. It can buy from other countries like Russia or France. Without this deal, under international law, even the other countries cannot supply. True, India is a leader in fast breeder, but even here, we need the uranium for the initial cycle. With less than 1% of world reserves, we cannot run both civilian &military nuclear plants. But if we get Uranium from reprocessed spent fuel it can run our civilian reactors& our own Uranium reserves can be used for defence purpose.What is the harm if we are to get the deal on our terms (perpetual fuel supplies and Reprocessing rights). That is what we are negotiating for.India is a strong country. The US needs India as much as we need the US for technology. My contention to all those who oppose the deal is very simple and plain. If someone has already invented a circle, why should we waste time, money and effort to reinvent the same. Buy off the technology and then use our brains and money to move forward from there. We will reach up higher,faster and surer. We need to think of our growth and of our self interest.If we do a SWOT analysis,the benefits of this deal far outweigh the negatives. This deal is a 2way street. We also get a sort of leverage with US.A ship is always safe at the shores but that is not what it is built for. Let us show more confidence and belief in our own country and in its abilities.
It is always easiest to think naively that we will benefit from this deal, especially when you assume so many things to start with. No one, mark my words, NO ONE has benefitted by signing any deals with US. Go through the history of all treaties signed by different nations with US (a google search will give you a whole list). What will strike like a sleadgehammer on seeing this list is that ALL THOSE COUNTRIES WERE LEFT WITH MUD IN THEIR FACE IN COURSE OF TIME RESULTING FROM EITHER US'S NOT KEEPING TO IT'S TERMS OR EVEN OUTRIGHT CHEATING. And that happened in each and every one of those Agreements!!! Help yourself to the google search and get the firsthand feel! If you are still not convinced then write back to me. I will help you with some leads to follow. OK?
RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by gatzzz on Jul 16, 2007 12:47 PM Permalink
Almost every major country in the world has signed treaties with United States including the top nations like France, Russia, Germany, England, Japan and China etc. All these countries have benefitted a lot being alinged with US especially Japan brining it to the second biggest economy in the world.
This is not a kids game to cheat one other. India isnt an immature nation. We are a notable power in the world now. Both the parties have their respective benefits out of this agreement. Thus the 123 agreement.
RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by Dr. Rakesh Chander Yashroy on Jul 16, 2007 12:51 PM Permalink
It is heartening to read analysis of the 123 (non)-deal by our intelligent and aware netizens. A clear conclusions seemingly emerging is: we only want a business deal to the advantage of both parters with no strings, whatsoever, attached to our freedom of future nuclear security and country's development.Dr. RC YashRoy
RE:RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by SRINIVASA GOWDA on Jul 16, 2007 11:33 AM Permalink
What about Agni, Prithvi, UAV, Dhruv... and many More.. What about, INSAT3/3A/4A/4C/ CARTOSAT, ASTROSAT, PSALV, GSLV.... We have launched foriegn satellite from our own Lauch vehicles from India itself. U also dont go by past laurels of usa. There are many failures in usa too. Discovery tragedy, Nasa would have been failure again wrt atlantis though last minute repair work by Russian Space Scientists saved them. Else along with Kalpana Chawla, another one also would have been a past memory..
RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by Sonu Madhavan on Jul 16, 2007 12:43 PM Permalink
well said
i totally agree with u these people are the realy problem they are afraid of failure and thus they cant make any thing just buy from other
Even ameracia as many failure in past they lost many lives during there space programms, there nucelear research programm there and during making many other things but they does'nt give up they try and try again and thatwhy it is now where it is .
RE:India soesn't need this deal at all!!
by inkypinky on Jul 16, 2007 11:55 AM Permalink
think most of those missiles are russian technology, not indigeneous. once isro starts viable large-scale commercial launches like ariane-space, nasa or glavkosmos, they can be considered seriously.
