RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by ctgan on Dec 30, 2007 07:16 PM Permalink
Then you should ask Punjabis also, since they killed Indira, Then you should ask maharastrians also, since godse killed Gandhi, you so called indian, without knowing the facts, dont spill venom. Believe unity in diversity otherwise you cry yourself in a small room, so that nobody bothers about you. India as a country will always prevail, even if it has many traitors !!!
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:19 PM Permalink
you are right unity in diversity means respecting others and their language and culture also,why are you opposing Hindi,Sanskrit and your crackpot CM Lord Ram,Give respect and take respect
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:25 PM Permalink
and why are you opposing Tamil Hindi and Sanskrit are not the only two Indian languages Tamil has aan older history in India and it is also a classical language like Sanskrit . Lots of sacred HIndu texts are written in Tamil . Th e Tamil form of Buddhism called Theravadha Buddhism is th epredominant form of Buddhism in South East ASia and in anti Tamil Sri Lanka too. You are always talking about Sanskrit so why arnt you respecting Tamil which is as older and as rich too . Because you area NOrth Indian racist .
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by R on Dec 30, 2007 07:37 PM Permalink
The name Bhatt should tell you that he is from Karnataka. You ignorant which is typical of most of the Tamils say he is Northie. And Mr Bhatt should know what he is talking about because it is the Tamilians who stoked the parochialism of Kannadigas in Bangalore. Kannadigas used to be the most broad minded of all the communities in India. But the Tamils in Bangalore Cantonment used to taunt them, ;their language and always used to proudly say "I dont know Kannada. Speak in Tamil" whenever some hapless Kannadigas used to speak to them in Kannada in the bad old days. Now they are paying to the Tamilians in the same coin in Bangalore. And that is what is happening in Srilanka with Sinhalese taking out on the Tamils for their past arrogance as you are taking out on the Brahmins in your State.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 08:42 PM Permalink
Yes mr R most Tamils in Bangalore at that time were Brahmins who tiunted the Kanndigas. The Tamils in Sri Lanka jve never taunted teh Sinhals to learn Tamil or chines or any other language. You seem to be confused and mixing the Dravidia polotics in Tamil Nadu with th eSri Lankan Tamils. FOrst of all realise the DMK and ADmk is now ful ot Tamils who are of Brahmin caste. Jaylaith is a Iyengar. Karunanidhi. daughter in law is an Iyengar. The late MGR;s wife was an Iyer. Using yor own coin many Tamil Brahmins ere very nasty towards their fellow non Brahmin Tamils, when they were in power,so the non Brahmis Tamils are paid it back to them when they gained power. The Aryan Dravidian contreversy is bullshit as there are many Aryan and part Aryan castes amongst the Tamils who are not Brahmins but they were not discriminated. Except for a few die hard Dravidian facnatics all other Tamilians do not have and il wil ltowards their fellwo Tamils of Brahnmin caste. In fact to most Tamils Tamil Brahmis is just a nother fellow Tamil. They may not like what BRahminism stood for but not the Brahmins. It is these Tamil Brahmins who have setteld in other states stil continue wiht this Brahmin thing when people in Tamil Nadu dont care tow hoots about it any more. As for the Sri Lankan Tamils they anto anti Hindu well they cant aorund 60% of them are Hindu.and were never anti Brahmin. Incact the jaffna Tamil Bramins are fully integrated with th eres tof the population and many belong to LTTE
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:39 PM Permalink
Bhatts are there in Pakistan, UP, Punjab. It's a brahmin name. I am sure this bhatt is not a kannadiga.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:43 PM Permalink
Parochial Kannadigas like you have no right to say Tamils are parochial. LOL.
Yes, but it is true, Tamils and Kannadigas can never live together in peace.. History is replete of instances of fightin g between Western Chalukyas and Pallavas.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
pleas read properly I never told that the regional languages are not used in the Karnataka,AP,but knowing Hindi one can move around and get his work done,people in Karnataka/AP atleast know 3-4 languagues,but when it comes to ppl in TN they cannnot anything other Tamil
RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:33 PM Permalink
1) Hindi is most widely spoken language in India 2) Even in non-hindi speaking states like Gujarat,Maharastra,Orissa,AP,Karnataka,Assam Hindi is widely used. 3) If you have ever(?) travelled outside your beloved state you will know the facts and reality 4) Open your eyes and see the world don't behave like a frog in the well
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:35 PM Permalink
In AP, Karnataka, Telugu and Kannada are widely used. Get your facts right. Visit those places first.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:35 PM Permalink
please excuse me, no body in rural Andhra speaks Hindi. Only Hyderabadis do. personal eperience. It is you who are parochial. India will be India only if you appreciate diversity.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Albert Adibadla on Dec 30, 2007 07:37 PM Permalink
YOU CANNOT SPEAK HALF A SENTENCE IN HINDI WITHOUT PERSIAN AND ARABIC...
GET RID OF MUSLIM LANGUAGES (PERSINA AND ARABIC) FROM HINDI AND WE CAN ALL AGREE...
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 07:56 PM Permalink
Same to u bro, beleive me if u happen to travel to many countries u would know the spread of tamil,,, Ever seen a Singapore Dollar ,it has "TAMIL "
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:21 PM Permalink
Hypocrite,if you come to our land, speak Tamil. If we come to your land, we speak your language. Try to force anything down our throat, and you lose respect.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:24 PM Permalink
Ha ha I have come across many many Tamils who refuse to learn other languages,don't joke buddy everyone knows this
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:31 PM Permalink
What do you want to finally say? A person learns another language only on a need basis. There are Tamils living in Mumbai and Delhi, fluent in Hindi. I don't think there is any need for the ordinary Tamil in Madras to learn Hindi. and there's no way anybody can force it.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 07:44 PM Permalink
Why dont u guys learn a language which has a official status in many country. India , Srilanka, Malaysia , Singapore, Maldives, Mauritius. Remember we dont say tht we wont learn hindi we would tht is on the basis , say if i want to relocate my self to a north indian state i would learn hindi., otherwise i would care more abt my language wch is one among the oldest in the World.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:01 PM Permalink
an appeal to you.. if you hate tamils, get out of India. Don't sit here and spread hatred.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Indian on Dec 30, 2007 07:04 PM Permalink
Yo rebel idt, I'm talking about Tamils who want to support LTTE from indian soil, they can leave to SL when ever they want to fight along with LTTE...no point in adding fire in other country by sitting here and providing fuel to fire kind of support
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
few years ago the undivided DMK want Tamil Nadu as a free country,so much for the partiotism of Tamil people
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:19 PM Permalink
yes it did want in the 50s, but not now. It gave up when the majority of the tamils were against it.
Your pseudo-patriotism is just restricted to shouting on rooftops and crying hoarse about Tamils ..
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:00 PM Permalink
There is a memorial for Rajiv Gandhi in Sriperumbudur. It's a good experience. Visit it in when you go to chennai. Tamils are like any other normal Indians who have day to day life to worry. So don't stereotype everybody.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:10 PM Permalink
What normal why are they opposed to Hindi,why are they opposed to Sanskrit,why that crackpot Karunanidhi is opposing Lord Ram,is he having the balls to say anything about Muslims
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
the day you learn you learn Tamil, you have the authority to ask others to learn your language. Remember that India will be in shambles without south.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Kumar Bhargava on Dec 30, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
South.. Which is your South. Karnataka, Kerala and AP are well within India. They will not and never thought of leaving India. Think of your TN without any non-Tamils (their investment) please include your much hated Brahmins (they are not Tamils ..cause your TVS group and others, their schools, IIT) will all leave. They will be happy in Bangalore or Hyd (great cosmopolitan cities to live). Now think of your State.. You will be left with Ramdoss, lots of MK, FYI., open your eyes and see how many of the IT companies are owned by the group I listed above. The answer is clear as your city's exclusive hot daylight. You need more .. I have more to give you. Don't pelt stones from a glass chamber..
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Arul Joythi on Dec 31, 2007 11:46 PM Permalink
What u Know about Tamil Nadu. You know only state in India backward community score higher than so called Brahmins and also coimbatore & erode district alone many thousand entrepreneur. You can not compare any district in India. Tvs,Sanmar & amalgamation are 20 years before big. Now HCL,Ma Foi,Parry, Murgappa group,Sun Tv,Sugna Pultry,etc. Tiruppur (14000 cr foreign ex revnue), Erode (400-600 cr foreing ex. revnue) Karur (3000 cr foreign exch revnue), Namakkal (Egg city get orde to export to South american countries) and still more. You can find more in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Nadu.
Not like countable big companies. TN is only state 80% of social life improving. Also no. of entrepreneurs are more. The most enterprising community Nadars,Cownders,Karaikudi Chettiyars,etc. Most of the Universities belongs to Chettiyars not Bhramins. Ex- Annamali,Alagappa, AC Tech, many hundred schools,Hindu Temples (Madurai Meenakshi). But All bramin group have few school only not even singel temple haven't build. Only chase the backward people to convert Christan and Muslim. Erode-agri student said, we can produce artificial rice if Karnataka/Kerela refused to give water for irrigation. TN veg. and food productn. far higher than any state with less water. So we can find solution in many way to bring top TN in particular and INDIA in general.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:30 PM Permalink
TN does not have authority to represent south,TN also not the best representative for South
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:33 PM Permalink
You think like that. But rest of south has more emotional attachment with tamilnadu than north. If Tamilnadu leaves India, rest of south will do too. You UP people and Biharis are brothers. We south are brothers though we have many differences like you have.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 08:06 PM Permalink
Classical language,every body know how the classical language status was given,only because 40 morons are there from TN in Parliament and Italian Gandhi wants their support
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 08:04 PM Permalink
Don't club Tamil Nadu with Karnataka and Gujarat which are progressive state and your TN is a regressive state full of crackpots like Karunidhi,Ramadoss,LTTE agent Vaiko.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 08:31 PM Permalink
Tamil has been given the Classical Language Status Not Because of any MPs But coz of an Researcher frm an American University"University of Berkley , California" Named George L. Hart. He is a cacaussian( a white man) Who know most of the indian languages but never been to TN. He was one who gave all the Research Documents and Solid Evidences Evidences collected From Different Parts Of the World. Fro Every oones Suprise Most of it were from TN and Asian Countries Like Indonesia , Thailand , Malaysia , Singapore and Many Pacific Islands.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 07:48 PM Permalink
May be u r not frm Tamilnadu but u r an Indian Right and i preassume tht u r educated and a well literate to know tht tamil is Classical Language of India. So as a true Indian U Should Do tht
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
Wel lare not opposed to HIndi Chinese or Sanskrit. SO why dont you HIndians learn Tamil or another Dravidian language. If al NOrth Indians compulsorily learn any Dravidian language we wil all learn Hind or Gujaraati or another NOrth Indian language, DOnt try to impose your language on others. What is good for yo is good for me too.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:38 PM Permalink
We know what wonderfull love TN has for rest of SouthIndia,Kaveri dispute with Karnataka,Mullaperiyar issue with Kerala,in Mullaperiyar they are bothered about safety of 25 lakh ppl but about their share of water,so much for love of other South Indian states
RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 08:22 PM Permalink
Tamil has been given the Classical Language Status Not Because of any MPs But coz of an Researcher frm an American University"University of Berkley , California" Named George L. Hart. He is a cacaussian( a white man) Who know most of the indian languages but never been to TN. He was one who gave all the Research Documents and Solid Evidences Evidences collected From Different Parts Of the World. Fro Every oones Suprise Most of it were from TN and Asian Countries Like Indonesia , Thailand , Malaysia , Singapore and Many Pacific Islands.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:47 PM Permalink
Yes TN has to fight for water, because it is a lower riparian state. Not because it wants to fight. ..and what did you say on problems of TN? Pls. look into your own backyard.
Why aren't you"magnanimous" to give Belgaum to Maharashtra, Krishna water to A.P (Alamatti) and Kaveri water to TN ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by jaya kumar on Dec 30, 2007 08:24 PM Permalink
Tamil has been given the Classical Language Status Not Because of any MPs But coz of an Researcher frm an American University"University of Berkley , California" Named George L. Hart. He is a cacaussian( a white man) Who know most of the indian languages but never been to TN. He was one who gave all the Research Documents and Solid Evidences Evidences collected From Different Parts Of the World. Fro Every oones Suprise Most of it were from TN and Asian Countries Like Indonesia , Thailand , Malaysia , Singapore and Many Pacific Islands.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:12 PM Permalink
Tamil is much older than Sanskrit and Hindi. So are all south indian languages. We are not opposed to them per se, but we don't like people enforcing by bullying tactics.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:16 PM Permalink
Who bothers if you don't learn Hindi you will only suffer,as Hindi is most commonly used as a link language everywhere,even your leader crackpot Karunidhi cannot communicate properly in any other language other than Tamil, so blindly follow these leaders,be practical
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Albert Adibadla on Dec 30, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
NAME ONE BJP NATIONAL LEADER WHO CAN SPEAK A WORD OF ANY INDIAN LANGAUGE INCLUDING ORIYA, MARATI, TELUGU, TAMIL, MALAYALAM... THEY ARE UNDER THE BELEIF THAT UP, BIHAR AND MP IS INDIA....
OOPS I FORGOT THEY LEARNED A FEW WORDS OF GUJARATI THESE DAYS...
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
We will leave India, and form our own nation where Tamil has respectability, if we think we suffer. As simple as that.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Kumar Bhargava on Dec 30, 2007 07:41 PM Permalink
Who is forcing Hindi / Sanskrit on you ?. Konw this dumwit.. even states like Assam learns Hindi and is widely spoken. A tibetian lerans and speaks Hindi. It is our 'NATIONAL LANGUAGE'. 60 million Tamils cannot change the desire of remaining one billion people. There are lot of Tamils in TN who want to learn Hindi and accept it. It is Tamil Nadu Govt that prevents Hindi in its State. They have right to study Tamil but not to decline any one from reading Hindi or other language. How many schoools in TN teach Hindi. They look like idiots when they try to communicate in anything other than Tamil. Now the stress in TN is not to read English. But they want investments from North, and other countries.. lol .. light skinned heroines from all over India for their Rajnikants and Vijays and Dhanush.. One other thing.. don't talk of TN going away..it will another Zimbabwe, infact it already is.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Prakash Jagan on Dec 30, 2007 10:13 PM Permalink
Mr. Bhargava,
Can you please stop representing tamils. Has the state of TN given you power of attorney to talk of behalf of TN people? The people of TN have outrightly rejected LTTE when they killed Rajiv or even before that. There will always be few elements in every state who support the cause of separitists -- like LTTE. This does not mean the entire state supports such outfits. It is to be noted that Rajiv himself supported LTTE and later paid the Price of his life.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:43 PM Permalink
Hindi is an official language according to Indian constitution. Not national language. Only UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, MP have Hindi has mother tongue. Rest of the states have their own mothertongues. It means Hindi is mothertongue of only 30% of Indian population.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Dakshin on Dec 30, 2007 07:44 PM Permalink
TN along with Gujarat, Karnataka are the most progressive states in India. Zimbabwe is UP, Bihar.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Albert Adibadla on Dec 30, 2007 07:26 PM Permalink
YOU CANNOT SPEAK ONE SECENTENCE IN HINDI WITHOUT THE WORDS FROM MUSLIM LANGUAGES -- ARABIC & PERSIAN.... LET US AGREE ON A LANGUAGE WITH IS A PURE INDIAN LANGUAGE WITHOUT ANY MUSLIM ORIGINATED WORDS...
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:58 PM Permalink
Dear Mr.Ashok truth hurts absolute truth hurts absolutely Kaveri disputes,Mullaperiyar dam issues are real issues not imaginery ones
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Ashok Kumar V.K. on Dec 30, 2007 08:23 PM Permalink
why not implement Bachavat tribunal and other verdicts? Kannadis are selfish they don't share with others.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:55 PM Permalink
why are you silent about Mullaperiyar,that dam is in Kerala,river is in Kerala still TN ppl act as if their moral right to demand water
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Ashok Kumar V.K. on Dec 30, 2007 08:40 PM Permalink
There is no problem between Tamils and Malayalees, the matter will be settled amicably and with discussions of both state leaders very soon.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Rishi on Dec 30, 2007 07:08 PM Permalink
My Dear brother Rajiv is not a saint, in the history of India he is the first PM who dared even to do corruption on our countries security issues, Example : Bofers Scam. More over before making any comments regarding Srilanka pls read their history first, Because the land which LTTE claim as Tamil homeland was a Independent county ruled by a Tamil King before west invasion on them, British are the one who united Srilanka. Now LTTE is not asking for a separate country, they ask for a federal structure like India.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:11 PM Permalink
But why then the Terrorist LTTE is killing even innocent school children,why they burned alive our Indian soldiers,why they killed Rajiv Gandhi,to hell with LTTE.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:21 PM Permalink
who killed inncent Tamil children the LTTE or the Sri Lankan government; Wh ydont you read teh world news or BBC . Who bombs all the orphanages. Just dont read your biased Indian NEws leart to listen to BBC or read it then you can learn more truth.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Indian on Dec 30, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
Guys, I have seen one ndian soliders who lost eyes and LTTE simply took out his eyes and hands for nothing, they are all invited indian govt to help then and at the end we all knew what happened...indian Army just spared LTTE as Tamil bros TN would cry like babies else for Indian ARMY LTTE or some thing else is not a big task to eliminate
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:32 PM Permalink
I have seen Tamil women raped by Indian soldiers onnocent Tamil civilians killed by Indian soldiers. SO where did you see this Indian soldier who lost his eyes in one your anti Tamil dreams
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Prakash Jagan on Dec 30, 2007 10:11 PM Permalink
Hello Indian,
Can you please stop representing tamils. Has the state of TN given you power of attorney to talk of behalf of TN people? The people of TN have outrightly rejected LTTE when they killed Rajiv or even before that. There will always be few elements in every state who support the cause of separitists -- like LTTE. This does not mean the entire state supports such outfits. It is to be noted that Rajiv himself supported LTTE and later paid the Price of his life.You don't have to preach patriotism to the patriotic tamils who are blogging here
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Indian on Dec 30, 2007 07:06 PM Permalink
No, LTTE supporters from india s'd go to Lanka and join LTTE, that's what I mean.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
Hi Indian Tamils have been living in Undivided India since pre historic times. They are one of the oldest people to continously inhabit India. So yo have no right to ask Tamils to leave India or Sri Lanka. Johnny ocme lately like yo HIndians have only short history in the sub continent. You may have th enumbers now like the Sinhalese due to forcible assimilation, but your hols on theis land is only very recent, soif yo dont like Tamils yo get out of India nad not the Tamils we wil always be here.Thorought history many have been trying to destroy th Tamil language, Tamil people and its culture ,and as a consequence of this many languages have evolved from Tamil, but Tamil has still evolved and survived, where as its contemporary Sanskrit is dead. Unlike old Chinese, Hebrew, Arabic or Greek .What was written around 2500 years ago can still be largely understood by modern Tamils.
RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 30, 2007 07:22 PM Permalink
In your language Maharastra is spelled as Magarastra,Mahesh as Magesh and so on,BJP and PJP are written similary but read differently,there is no Ksha as in Kshatriya,respect other language and cultures so that others will respect you.
I know it is not your fault but is the fault of your crackpot CM Karunanidhi
RE:RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Ashok Kumar V.K. on Dec 30, 2007 07:59 PM Permalink
Telugu me kitiki hogai in hindi Kidiki why? Mr.Bhatt. Every language has its own merits.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by rebel hindu on Dec 30, 2007 07:34 PM Permalink
I'm sorry for your ignorance of Tamil. Those are syllables that are not native to Tamil. Tamil just spells them with the syllables it has. No wrong in that.
btw, Do you know to properly prononounce pure Tamil names. Lok at yourself before finding fault in others.
RE:RE:RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Arul Joythi on Jan 01, 2008 12:01 AM Permalink
Ajit Bhatt do not waste your time on this message board. Your comments are irrelevent.
RE:Appeal all tamils in india
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Dec 30, 2007 07:30 PM Permalink
and what about crack pot Modi Mayawati Advani . atleast Karunanidhi only tells his opinions but does not organise riots to kill minorities
