If a great personality of the armed service dies,our politicians will speak good words only on TV.They are double standard people who have the time to attend stupid actors who do not contribute a thing to the society.But our politicians are so faithfull to them.Bloody hell, these bugers are heartless.ONLY verbal sympathies ,nothing else.
He deserved the great funeral. All this chors and goons did not attend his funeral. It was attended by the people whom he adored and who loved him so much, he deserves a place in the heaven. Not near the Parliament.
May be lived in Ooty for the specific reason that he hated all thesea rogoues whom we call politicians. He knew how to enjoy life, and he probably also knew how to die. May be really didn't want all those goons to spoil his funeral, after all.
Not to lower the dignity of a departed person .. there is nothing great in what Maneckshaw did. He was paid for doing his job in the army - it was teh tax payers money -that of our fathers. How come his valor and skills did not work against China? the blamce was quitely put on Krishna Menon then defence minister. Against pakistan India was winning all the wars 1948, 1965. It was no big deal liberating Bangladesh . Dacca and Islamabad were poles apart and the army in Dacca was always a sitting duck for Indian operations moreoevr the local bengalis were completely against against urdu speaking pakistanis.
Anbody could have done the same job of Mr.Maneck shaw. Karunanidhi has got better jobs. Let us stop this pakistan obsession.
RE:What do you expect?
by VENURAJA Bowenpalle on Jun 29, 2008 03:53 PM Permalink
You are right.100% He was like any other military general but with certain ambitions of taking over the country itself at one point of time. You can argue and counter argue but the fact was that after 1971 war he started talking and behaving very ambitiously and when there were press reports about Maneksha taking over the ruling of the country Indira Gandhi called him to her office and asked explanations. The fact that he did not refute the "rumours" of the press certainly agitated her. She stold very sternly to him that he should answer before the Cabinet committee and that gave him cold feet. The person of the rank of Indira Gandhi ,getting disturbed with his behaviour means that she might have had intelligence reports to back her suspicions. Morover the victory shall go to Indira Gandhi because she gave full support and told them very clearly not worry about US threats. She did not waver, did not fear ,even while Soviet Russia itself was warning that US is planning to attack India with nuclear weapons. In fact the 9th fleet of US came closer in Hindu ocean. Even then she did not waver in her decision while Maneksha was practically shaking.
She called it US bluff. And ordered army to continue the war and gave full civilian support until Pakistan is torn in to two pieces and could gather support from Europe to recognise Bangladesh. She could make US a loner and frustraed Richard Nixon so much that Nixon used unprintable words against Indira Gandhi.
RE:What do you expect?
by Techno Savvy on Jun 30, 2008 01:13 PM Permalink
Venuraja first there is no "Hindu Ocean". It is called Indian Ocean.
It is very easy to abuse or ridicule a person after he has died but no one dared to cast aspersions when he was alive. It only shows what third rate & cheap people like you reside in this country which cannot even honor its brave soldiers.
RE:What do you expect?
by VENURAJA gopal Bowenpalle on Jun 30, 2008 02:46 PM Permalink
First read the interviews given by Mr.S.H.F.J.Manekshaw. Read them on the internet. I do not think that I have to tell you as to how to search on the google for a dumb head like you.
Mr.Manekshaw gave a detailed description of how there was a hue and cry by parliament members and how he walked in to PM Indira Gandhi's chamber and what he said. According to him he simply replied like this "Madam ? Why should you think that I am more efficient than you?" For which Mrs.Indira Gandhi replied as much simply but in a agitated voice according to Manekshaw , "Mr.Manekashaw , you shall stand before cabinet committee and answer" for which Manekshaw stood in complete silence.
I did not cast any aspersion on his bravery nor did I say that he was an ordinary soldier. Indian Ocean was aslo called "Hindu Ocean" but in very old maps and may be that word is out place now except in hindi language maps. do not worry much.
RE:What do you expect?
by Diago Anthony Cardozo on Jun 30, 2008 01:08 PM Permalink
& we wonder why we have corrupt politicians who are so confident in their "chairs" voted by selfish ignorant people like this dumb guy who can only sit & post his ignorant views about a brave soul (May God Rest his soul in peace).
Thank you Field Marshal Sam Bahadur. We need many more like you to change the present situation of our country & its borders.
RE:What do you expect?
by Subramaniam Krishnan on Jun 29, 2008 02:01 PM Permalink
Its not about whether he got paid for his job (sic) or not but for the valor he displayed on the battlefield and for the hundred's of soldiers who guard our borders as we sleep peacefully it is essential if not the people atleast the representatives of the people should be there to pay the due respects for such a decorated soldier.
RE:What do you expect?
by Ryan on Jun 29, 2008 10:15 PM Permalink
Are you being sarcastic or is that your pathetic attempt to rub people the wrong way? Either way, I can only feel pity for you..
RE:What do you expect?
by Demo-crazy on Jun 30, 2008 02:40 AM Permalink
Anand, yours is an unfair comment (like most of those who replied), probably out of ignorance of the facts of China war and 1971 war.
Sam Manekshaw's work was exemplary. It does not matter whether others too could have done it or not. All it matters, in this context, is how the so called leaders of our government and defence forces showed their respect for some one who was heading the army.
One should remember that Sam did not lose any respect by the absence of these sick politicians. It was these politicians who lost a chance to put some sheen on their dull facade of civility. Thank God, we did not have to listen to some crap speech by these politicians.
We the common citizens of this country hold Sam Manekshaw in high esteem and that is what matters.
RE:What do you expect?
by Munish Oberoi on Jun 30, 2008 11:01 AM Permalink
7. now consider this - the concept of "you are being PAID for it" comes from the Americans, but even they don't say that for their great generals like Dwight D. Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur, Patton,etc. The land which gave you this phrase "you are being paid for it", itself heroworhips these generals and have built statues of them. Have you seen any statue of any of our illustrious military generals? If the biggest DEMOCRACY USA can build statues of military generals then why not us? We have only the statues of political p*igs who masquerade as leaders.
RE:What do you expect?
by Manjula A on Jun 30, 2008 11:14 AM Permalink
Now I know Why the morale of India comes down so easily. If you can't respect your soldiers, you can't respect anyone. I am apalled. I can't believe that a person could be so insensitive. Ingratitude has limits too. If Indians are like this guy Anand Krish, India will lose all wars. Somebody please teach him to respect our soldiers.
RE:What do you expect?
by Munish Oberoi on Jun 30, 2008 11:01 AM Permalink
I will love to tear your arguments apart, with pleasure.
You said - "there is nothing great in what Maneckshaw did. He was paid for doing his job in the army..."
1. no one joins the army to die, they join to kill - remember that.
2. so they are not paid to die, to kill, ok
3. "you are pid o do ur job" - i know where this phrase comes from - its an americanism, an american way of thinking... they always think everything is business and that everything can be bought with money... that is why often they fail to understand why and how ppl from other cultures behave so differently and do not behave as they think they would/should, they fail to understand why it so happens that ppl are dying for somethng which to them appears to be "NOT WORTH IT"... but ppl from other cultures do behave differently, and do things, the reasons of which is beyond their comprehension and predictions.
3. dying is not a JOB that u can pay for
4. u pay a call center guy to do his job , he does it. now ask him will he die for u if u paid him for that?
5. if you someone 100 crore may be someone may still die for u. but with the kind of money that u PAY an armyman, can u get ANYBODY to die for you?
RE:What do you expect?
by Sam on Jun 30, 2008 02:02 PM Permalink
Mr.Anand,
Please get your facts right. During the Chinese aggression, the commies within the central government (Mr. Krishna Menon was one of them) did not allow use of the airforce against the enemy, eventhough our air power was vastly superior to China's at that time.
Please come out of this China complex. China is no way superior to us. Its only because of our weak leaders that we appear weak in front of China. The ongoing nuclear deal saga is an example I can site in this regard.
India is a great nation despite the problems we have. China will need decades to come up to our level in democracy and civilised behaviour. India's image is generally positive all over the world (not counting the Al Qaeda types) but China evokes fear and hatred.
Let us not have any inferiority complex and move ahead to be a leader among the nations.
RE:What do you expect?
by Ryan on Jun 29, 2008 03:56 PM Permalink
First of all, I doubt ur an Indian, so you can drop the pseudonym. You must be really sick in the head if you cannot differentiate between an army-man and a call-center employee... both get paid after all! People like you are a cancer to society, you yourself cower and hide in the closet when faced with a real threat, but when brave men put their lives on the line to protect you, you have the audacity to say they were simply doing their job. Its as if people should be obliged to die for you since you pay taxes (which I doubt).
The Indian political leadership has always been weak, right since Nehru (I wish Sardar Patel had been the PM, but Gandhi had other plans). We were caught napping when China attacked, and the blame lies solely with Nehru and Menon... who would bend over backward (or forward, whichever way the chinese like) to appease the chinese. Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai my a$$. Sam Manekshaw was an Iron-man, he was a shrewd general, and he could talk condescendingly to Indira Gandhi (the one strong PM we've had although I don't admire her much). Once he was given the liberty to call the shots, he showed what he could do... part of his job was NOT political arm-wrestling!
RE:What do you expect?
by jaideep shirali on Jun 30, 2008 01:35 PM Permalink
Maybe Anand, you need to read a little bit about our history, rather than shielding Krishna Menon. You would know what made Nehru break down in front of military officers after we lost the China war. And winning wars is not easy, one has to lose soldiers, men in flesh and blood, whose families suffer their loss. This grief is also felt by their officers.And lastly, please do not compare Sam with people like Karunanidhi, Karunanidhi does not even have the guts to take off his goggles and let the people see him for what he really is.
RE:What do you expect?
by Vivek Khanna on Jun 30, 2008 11:20 AM Permalink
Every Political Leader including president & vice president are paid for their Jobs then why we make their samadhis investing lakhs/ crore of Public money, why we every year celebrate their birth & death anniversary with public money. It is easy to say that It was no big deal doing any thing but who faces the front knows it very well. We can't even face simple threats by anyone than how can we face attacks on borders. So some importance should be given to defense personnel also.
RE:What do you expect?
by aska simon sadanand on Jun 30, 2008 01:39 PM Permalink
I am not sure but during the chinese war Sam was not the chief of the army so the defeat of tht war is entirely noy Sam responsibility. Even if we accept your message pls give due respect to a slodier who served the army for 4 decades.
RE:RE:What do you expect?
by VENURAJA gopal Bowenpalle on Jun 30, 2008 02:54 PM Permalink
Mr.Sam Manekshaw was made chief of army staff after some time and after already the damage was done by the earlier army chief during the so called India's china war. The famous speech of Manekshaw at the time to his generals who were waiting to hear him consisted only one sentence. He said "Gentlemen there will be no more withdrawls" and he turned around and walked out.
RE:What do you expect?
by Ryan on Jun 30, 2008 03:50 PM Permalink
General P.N.Thapar was in-charge when India-China war happened (yes he was Karan Thapar's dad). All the blame for the defeat was laid on him by Nehru and Krishna Menon (the sick communist.. of course all communists are fiends). General P.N.Thapar was the scapegoat, FM Sam Manekshaw was nowhere in the picture. Get ur history right u moron..
All the Scum from the political Industry was absent.They were busy making money.Sam would forgive them.He knew very well what politicians are.In Heroism he was alone and in death too.It is a privilege that the scumbags did not contaminate the peaceful journey to the heavens.
RE:Sam Bahadur's funeral -the scum bags were absent
by jim on Jun 29, 2008 12:02 PM Permalink
it is sad brother subhash narayan, but i think a hero like sam bahadur will smile cos he disliked the polictial roges.
the press has give him lovely cover... i had read war books so i knew alot about him and his heroic & how he stood up to Mrs gandhi an Menon who hated him for he was a straight and did not bow to stupid politations.
It is a shame that all the leaders in power or otherwise who could find abundant time to attend social functions of even cine actors could not find time to attend the funeral of great Maneksha,the most illustrious & brave son of our mother land.All these peole lack abjectly the basic element of decency & sense of priortisation despite their self-proclaimed tall statures.They are inexcusable & should bend their head with shame-a disgrace to the nation and its countrymen they try to represent!at least Adwani who makes so loud sounds about patriotism,nationality & its defence should have made his presence on this grave occasion as a mark of respect to the departed soul of a valiant soldier who fought for defence of our country.One fails to understand as to what exactly is the problem with Karunanidhi in whose state the Field Marshal made his house and breath his last.It is height of,I should say,disrespect to the nation itself when none of the chiefs of the three wings of defence could come & pay homage to their one time leader.The fact that govt was represented just by a deputy minister & two two star rank officials speaks for the scant regard & how much a warrior who fights for defending the country at the peril of his life is cared for.Though politicians have their own reasons which they always have,at least the army chiefs should have been respectful to their leader by crossing the barriers- whatever they be- imposed by any circles.A lot to be learnt by our VIP/VVIPS.
PM busy saving his prime ministership and early elections.
L K Advani: Making his election agenda and dreaming of swearing cermoney as PM.
The worst is the 3 cheifs not their to pay homage. When they being part of the distinguished profession have no time to attend the funeral of one of the greatest field marshal what can we say about the leaders who busy playing their tantrums.
PM busy saving his prime ministership and early elections.
L K Advani: Making his election agenda and dreaming of swearing cermoney as PM.
The worst is the 3 cheifs not their to pay homage. When they being part of the distinguished profession have no time to attend the funeral of one of the greatest field marshal what can we say about the leaders who busy playing their tantrums.
