With everything becoming a commodity in India, why should justice and its pursuit be left out?!
The underlying nature of this indictment is a Hindi filum script that predates the double-role potboilers!
The investigators have again found a convenient scape-goat/whipping boy.
This "arrangement" was obviously reached by all parties involved "agreeing" on the outcome and its "cost", just like at the end of that classic comedy gem -- 'Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro'!
And this title ('Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro') will ultimately and aptly sum up the general public response to this case in the end!!
The investigation in the murder case of aarushi and hemraj has proved one thing that money can buy anything.The CBI is trying to give a clean chit to the TALWARS by declaring Krishna and rajkumar a killers.I knew from the very day when CBI arrested krishna that the Talwars will be left scotfree. This murer is nothing but an HONOUR KILLING.
RE:Scapegoat found!!!
by mohamed hashim on Jun 19, 2008 02:51 AM Permalink
Dude the girl that you are talking about is a deceased fourteen year old child who dint even get a chance to see the joys of her youth!! Have you got anyone in your family who is 14 year old..? If so think of them when you create your own nonsense theories which no one needs to know!! Shame on you .. !!!
RE:Scapegoat found!!!
by nagesh singh on Jun 19, 2008 01:47 AM Permalink
Talwars dont seem to be medieval barbarians addicted to some jehadi irrelevent religion.
RE:Scapegoat found!!!
by Satish Sasikumar on Jun 19, 2008 01:02 AM Permalink
Were you there to speak all this..don't cook up..on the other hand I would ask why honor killing by Talwars
RE:Scapegoat found!!!
by Rahul on Jun 19, 2008 02:11 AM Permalink
thats b.coz perverts like u will always like to believe the sleezer version of the cooked up story
RE:Scapegoat found!!!
by gourab majumdar on Jun 19, 2008 02:21 AM Permalink
he is correct this krishna and rajkumar are scapegoat..two murders done in the house and Mr. Talwar dont get a noise???? what shit....wy he and his wife are not put for Narco test. Talwar and that anita durrani are having some affair and now to hide that they are making all stories...by paying money to these ppl. aal craap...CBI has also become worst puppets now...shame..!!!
RE:Why NOIDA is hub of murder and rapist ?
by Manish Midha on Jun 19, 2008 08:50 AM Permalink
Agreed, there hasn't been a single case as far as my knowledge goes, has been handled dutifully and ethically in noida. How come these incidents going to cultivate trust in law and order and intead criminals r goin to be more fearless looking at the approach..
Forensically, it has been established that the Talwars were not at home when the murders happened!!
So, why aren't they being honest about it?? Were they at a place in the middle of a night that they don't want to conceal??
That is the whole source of the mystery....THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT A OUNG 14 YEAR OLD GIRL IS BRUTALIZED AND THAT THE PARENTS 5 FEET AWAY WILL NOT HEAR NETHING...JUST NOT POSSIBLE!!
RE:Why are Aarushi's parents lying??
by dip dutt on Jun 19, 2008 02:51 AM Permalink
Euro 2008 telecast was going on.. And several televisions were on in the neighborhood.
Before anyone jumps in to object I am NOT defending Rajkumar.. But in India, there is a practice of keeping male servants (typically in their 30s), who are expected to round up in a servant's quarter with little exposition to consensual sex. The problem is compounded because all they see is Hindi movies with sleazy scenes and skimpy heroines. Of course they can visit brothels but that costs given the money these people get.. So what remains are the innocent girls like Aarushi to suffer. Unless we handle the root cause of such social malaise and become a socially progressive society, such things will continue to happen from socially repressed individuals.
Again, I am not defending Rajkumar.He should be given the utmost punishment.
RE:Just a thought!
by Loan Shark on Jun 19, 2008 12:56 AM Permalink
not just servants, this is the case with everyone in India - male of female. there is no sex until marriage.
On top of it, often in villages, the man has to go to "shahar" make a living, leaving his wife and kids home ... the guy comes home only once in 1 year or two or three
RE:Just a thought!
by Geo on Jun 19, 2008 01:04 AM Permalink
Good observation. In general the practise of keeping 'servants' isn't what it used to be in the old days. Then household help and labour used to fear their masters and had little exposure. Now they are semi-educated and have exposure to half-baked ideas. And added to it the masters want to keep them as 'servants'. And government is hardly doing anything to keep population in control or rapidly improving things for the servant classes. What else to expect in this situation?
they control virtually all major papers and channels...
their job is simple: eliminate all forms of our hindu culture, as we know it...
and not the evil congie-bureau-of-investigation is here... they are finding and using ancient-evil-ways, to insult our hindu religion, our culture and, our hindu-timeless thoughts..
As it was on the debate at the NDTV yesterday,imagine the future life of the Talwars who were questioned ,interrogated,defamed by the media all these days creating the impressio in the general public that they are the culprits and lo their lives are going to be doomed for the rest of the years in the memory of their beloved daughter.And our good for nothing police has goofed up things for the worst.What is the point in catching the real culprits and punishing them when the lives of innocent have been ruined forever? The scriptures in our law books need to be changed for the better. I hope , hope and hope!!!
RE:Aarushi murder
by Loan Shark on Jun 19, 2008 12:57 AM Permalink
future life of talwar isn't in jeopardy if they are cleared by CBI based on this krishna guy's testimony
RE:Aarushi murder
by Demo-crazy on Jun 19, 2008 12:58 AM Permalink
I agree with you. I strongly feel that the parents are innocent. Otherwise, by now they would have cracked in the investigation.
Most of the public finds this tough to accept, going by the reaction to the story so far on rediff and elsewhere.
RE:Aarushi murder
by Geo on Jun 19, 2008 01:06 AM Permalink
They may be innocent of murder. But keeping middle aged male 'servants' in a house with a young girl, and having affairs and covering up (which might have been observed closely by the servants) etc. certainly makes them in part responsible for this situation
RE:Aarushi murder
by Guest on Jun 19, 2008 09:05 AM Permalink
Agreed, in today's culture of husband n wife both working, people tend to forget thier responsibilities as a parent and the children r left on the mercy of servants. If a child is subjected to company of a servant for the maximum of time, u can imagine child's mental state and to what extent he/she can be traumatised finally giving into the solace of rebel thoughts/bad company etc. etc. which can be taken advantage by servants and outsiders.. Its high time parents start looking at thier child's issues too in a gentle n friendly manner, so that they r aware of a little(may not be fully) about the issues/problem one's child has.
A lie told to oneself hundred times over becomes the truth in the subconscious mind.....or so it seems as per psychologists.....at least that is my interpretation..
If Krishna had already decided as part of a plan to conceal the real truth, then it is posible that he is lying and his corroboration should not be taken as the gospel..
Here are some discrepancies : 1) If the Talwars had been at home(as claimed by them)it is impossible that 3 nepalis would have even attempted to enter Aarushi's room......Nepalis by nature are very cautious, secretive and risk averse.....
2) If as reported, they were having drinks, then Talwars would have woken up to the sound of 3 men in the house....
3) Aarushi attempted to stave of the assailants, as per Krishna's description...she would have screamed or atleast there would have been a muffled sound..how come Talwars did not hear anything??
4) As per forensics, Hemraj was murdered first and then Aarushi...however, Krishna gives an opposite view saying that aarushi was murdered first....and all the while Hemraj went along with them?? Very strange considering that Hemraj loved Aarushi like his daughter....
4) As per forensics, Aarushi was murdered by hitting her with a heavy object on the head...and that 20 minutes after her death, her throat was slit.....then how come the blood stains were found on the open door at a distance of 7/8 feet?? if a dead person's throat is slit, the blood would barely gush out....it is a sign that
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Loan Shark on Jun 19, 2008 01:06 AM Permalink
1. krishna and rajkumar are not nepalies ... if rajkumar killed arushi after attempting to rape her, let's not blame nepali servants.
2. not unless they were making noise while having drinks
3. often one scream isn't enough to wake someone up from deep sleep ... maybe the assailant thought that arushi would surrender, or consent, but when she didn't he muffled her sceam and then had to kill her
4. maybe she wasn't dead after the heavy blow, just driven unconscious and then she died ... slitting will result in blood outflow as long as the heart is pumping ... also some blood will ooze out of recently dead person when a blood vessel is cut ... it may have stained assialant's hand who left the blood marks on the door.
No offense .... just doing timepass to screw your theory.
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by David Coverdale on Jun 19, 2008 01:20 AM Permalink
1) Krishna is a Nepali......Rajkumar is a half nepali half UP guy....
2)They are humans and not limp rags for them to move around silently or glide in the air like a butterfly.......
3)One scream is enough to wake you up from a deep slumber....esp. if the scream(even if muffled one)is in the same house barely 4 feet away.......have seen the layout and followed the mock drill on aajTak...
4)Going as per media reporting of forensics investigation...she died 20 minutes before the throat was slit....in which case, the blood would barely ooze out...a dead heart does not pump blood vigorously...LOL!!
Hey no offence meant...just some tp to dismantle your theory...
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by David Coverdale on Jun 19, 2008 12:30 AM Permalink
4) As per forensics, Aarushi was murdered by hitting her with a heavy object on the head...and that 20 minutes after her death, her throat was slit.....then how come the blood stains were found on the open door at a distance of 7/8 feet?? if a dead person's throat is slit, the blood would barely gush out....it is a sign that the struggling Aarushi had her throat slit when she was very much alive and that the torrent of blood thru the jugular flew out with extreme force...
5) Who deleted the photos in camera?? uneducated nepalis?? What are the Talwars trying to cover?? If it were a simple case of lust killing by servants, why are the Talwars behaving so suspiciously all along??
All this proves without a shadow of doubt that this story has been concocted by Krishna to protect someone powerful.....
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by raj on Jun 19, 2008 12:36 AM Permalink
more than anything else. like you said. what did the talwars have to hide ? what were they waiting for all along if someone else had killed their daughter ? we dint see the rage in them, instead we saw guilt in them, and almost as if the murder hadnt happened. they were all in a grief about the mess they had at hand, but no rage. ANY other sane family would have come out and screamed it aloud! instead of cookng up stories and coming up with several inconsistencies all along!!! also - krishna said that talwar was nervous a few days before the incident, and sent him early. so what all this nonsense of a theory they cooked up now ?
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by All Right on Jun 19, 2008 03:43 AM Permalink
Raj:
You may have SEEN the guilt in them, but remember you are not the judge nor the jury.... and since you have made up your mind already, you'd anyway be barred from being on the jury..
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Raman D J on Jun 19, 2008 01:12 AM Permalink
Talwars behaving suspiciously????? It is the media which is making them look like this.
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Your Persona on Jun 19, 2008 12:53 AM Permalink
Just curious:
1. How did you arrive at a generic and racist conclusion on "Nepalis" being cautious, etc.?
2. Do you know the layout and architecture of the house to be able to comment on whether or not the Talwars would have heard three men who obviously were trying to do whatever they were up to, quietly? Is it necessary that three men drinking beer at night need to be making a lot of noise?
3. Perhaps Aarushi did try to scream, which explains why the murderer chose to silence her.
4. Do you have access to forensics, other than through the very unreliable media reports? How can you claim forensic report states that Hemraj was murdered first or that the throat was slit after 20 minutes of death? Did you know blood splashes to a lot more than 7-8 feet, particularly when the murder weapon (whether a blunt object or a knife) is being swung?
5. Is there anything to suggest that the photographs in the camera contained anything related to the murder?
6. I understand investigating agencies do not rely on a single form of lie-detection testing to arrive at answers. In case you are familiar with the process, questions are structured to identify inconsistencies, and at least three different methods are used to map the answers that seem most consistent.
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by David Coverdale on Jun 19, 2008 01:12 AM Permalink
1) Generic yes, not racist...racist generally pertains to negative views about a culture....though not necessary that it remains restricted to negative views...
2)Yes, i know the layout and architecture to be able to draw the conclusion(though not sweeping one)that i drew...generally 3 strangers inside a small house would alert the denizens of the house...a small pan falls in the kitchen and i have seen people waking up with a start...
4)I have access to forensics through media reports...i trust CNN/IBN and Times NOW as top notch news reporting agencies...how do you know tha inflation is right now more than 8% and climbing?? Thru print and electronic media!! If you start seeing media with jaundiced eyes, or worse still, you pigeonhole all media channels into one bracket without showing the neccesary commonsense and intelligence to discriminate between the reliable ones and the sensation seeking hyperbole focused ones, then you will never be able to pick and choose the right media outlets for relevant information...you would be the worse for it...
5) Nothing to suggest that...it is strange that 28 snaps are taken and 23 get deleted...tough to believe that Aarushi(who was gifted the camera on that night after dinner)would take 28 snaps and then choose to delete 23 out of them immediately after having taken them...
6)"I understand investigating agencies do not rely on a single form of lie-detection testing to arrive at answers."
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Demo-crazy on Jun 19, 2008 01:25 AM Permalink
Hi David, Let us not take everything that is placed in the media (whatever label they may be), as the Truth. For that matter, you need not trust even this story of Vicky! Almost all channels have covered it widely for their TRP rating / eyeballs, but none of the channels have been thorough in reporting. They have focused on the scandalous part, or building up hype for catching more ads.
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Your Persona on Jul 07, 2008 10:25 PM Permalink
1. Dictionary meanings of Racism:
- The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
- Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
2. Clearly, you have witnessed people waking up with a start in a tiny house or one without a noisy air conditioner. There also exist tons of situations where the opposite happen.
4. Reports of the forensic tests conducted by the CBI team, which includes eminent forensic scientists, have not yet been released to the media. What you have access to are the earlier reports based on inadequate ground works, and reportage through unreliable sources. Also, FYI, inflation, and other economic indicators are compiled and released to the media through what are called "Press Releases". The same agencies you mentioned had got the name of the culprit wrong in the recent Neeraj Grover murder case. It's nice to be appreciate of any commercial organization, but it would be wise to use your own judgment.
5. Valid point. However, you are talking of a 14-year old that gets a new digital camera. There is a good possibility she clicked away photos as soon as she got the camera, then deleted them.
6. The Central Bureau of Investigation stated during a media interaction session that it would be conducting multiple forms of tests to map the answers. (Unlike the media's own interpretation of the redundant forensic reports.)
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Demo-crazy on Jun 19, 2008 12:49 AM Permalink
Let us consider if this happens or not. 1. If one of the servants is alredy working at this house, and the other happens to be an employee (compounder at the clinic, and a regular at their home), how is it difficult to gain entry? 2. What if the parents were asleep when these guys were drinking? They probably saw only one (Hemraj) and the others may have entered, one by one, silently. 3. The girl may have been killed first. The forensic report of Hemraj being killed first could be wrong, given their ineptitude in capturing the details of discharged fluid from private areas. 4. Could be the blood of Hemraj? Or could be of Arushi too. If the girl was gagged, she could not have been able to cry for help also. Remote chance of her putting up much resistance also. 5. What if photos were deleted by Arushi, may be she did not like what she clicked? May be it was at the shop testing the camera? We do not have much details (as general public) about all the small crucial details.
So, we can only guess. Let the CBI do its job. A dentist and his spouse can't be so powerful to dictate to CBI. In any case, they are not related to 10, Janpath!
RE:It is possible to lie in a narco-test!!
by Godwin on Jun 19, 2008 01:52 AM Permalink
Human brain is a garbage,it takes in lots of input both good/bad thinking & events,nacro test is made only to analysis the sequence of events on a persons brain,eventhough you train your brain to say a lie its difficult for a common man to handle.During the test,there would be lots of question which would be very difficult to anticipate for a common man to keep his lie.The person will be in a deep trance and even though he practises his subconscious brain to fake an event,there will be many more questions which he would not have thought of to tackle,that too in a trance he has no chance to fake it.Remember CBI has top class personals with huge realtime experience with them, they would dig it out with out a persons knowledge. For point 1. To me the Talwars would have been very busy professionals so that they have to believe the servant blindly to keep the routiens in their house. Hemraj was trusted so much by the Talwars, there is a possibility that Shambu and Krishna took advantage of Talwars trust on Hemraj. 2. After Talwars went to sleep, Krishna, Hem & shambu would have started their beer. 3. there would have been some noice which would have penetated a closed room with AC's on. 4. yes this is strange 5. she would have been alive even after taking that blow.hence they have decided to slit the throat,they would have been caught by surprise when the blood flew a distance.I guess the Talwars would have NOT involved in this crime.How come a parent kill their own daughter?
RE:punish
by raj on Jun 19, 2008 12:39 AM Permalink
you explanation maybe right. but, why didnt arushi's parent say that all along ? they only said they were innocent... no explanations necessary ? what did they need time for ? to come up with stories ? also why so much inconsistency in their stories ? what were they hiding when their daughter is killed ?
its utter nonsese, what the cbi has come up with. if they can back with concrete proof - its well and good, or else its mr. talwar. why was mr talwar not wanting to nail the killer ? why did they take and cremate the body as soon as possible ? so many gaping holes in the story!
RE:RE:punish
by Your Persona on Jun 19, 2008 12:59 AM Permalink
This is hilarious. Do you have access to the statements given by the Talwars? Do you know if they DID NOT explain that they could not hear anything to the police and the CBI? By ridiculing the CBI (which in any case has not issued any statement on the crime yet, except disclosing what Krishna has stated during the test), your own lack of judgment is made evident.
all this happened and parents are not aware of this..sleeping in the next room......Two pple are trying to rape daughter and later killed her in her own house...in her own room in the presence of parents......and parents are unaware......very good.....Hats off to such parents......Reports says it is work of butcher or doctor....Wow..servents were so efficent that they slit throats with perfection....and arushi and hemraj happily agreed for this......Well Mrs.Nupur Talwar u shud be ashamed of yrself.....essi aurat ko maa kehlana ka koi haq nahi...............This system is corrput from top to bottom...CBI is trying to hide the facts nthing more then this...........Yahan se tho bach bhi jaaoge.....ek or adalat hein bhagwan ki wahan se kesse bachoge..........
RE:What next.............
by Demo-crazy on Jun 19, 2008 12:26 AM Permalink
why are you ranting without any proof? let the cbi comeup with its official version.
RE:What next.............
by raj on Jun 19, 2008 12:42 AM Permalink
thats the problem! we cant trust cbi to comeup with soemthing that follows the facts o nthe ground.
importantly, why were the talwars so circumspect when they should have been filled with rage - if their servants had killed their daughter. arushi's mum was like - "dont ask me, all i know is that we are innocent" - its almost like "wait until the officials bail us out, we have given them all the money we have, and used all our contacts to sort this thing, now just leave us alone and let cbi cover it up for us"
RE:What next.............
by Demo-crazy on Jun 19, 2008 01:03 AM Permalink
is that so simple? when a case is publicised so much it is not possible.
only in bofors case the culprits managed to escape. one was not even chargesheeted because he had died before the case was filed. he was named in 'B' side- not prosecutable! you know whom i am referring to. do you think talwars are that high to command CBI to do their bidding?
RE:What next.............
by raj on Jun 19, 2008 01:33 AM Permalink
im just questioning the fact that the talwars have so many evasive replies instead of rage and trying to co-oprate with the case. why do they have to hide ? whats there to cover up ? its htier daughter after all , why protect someone else ?
RE:What next.............
by Rohit Bhanot on Jun 19, 2008 12:29 AM Permalink
completely agree with you. this is a bull story...ridiculous to even see it circulated. they could have come up with a better one at least, if they're going to cover it up.
RE:What next.............
by neha on Jun 19, 2008 03:44 PM Permalink
Correct.Its not easy to stay composed and keep acting like nothings happened.No body is balming anybody.But whats wrong in grilling the people involved and know to Aarushi.Why the feeling of loss is absent.If a foreign eye can notice all this ,why cant the CBI.its not that difficult.Something is amiss and its not taht difficult to solve.Its sad taht a case like this just lingers on!!Even with a spiritual guru besides its impossible and hard to belive composures expresses.Could be one off cases ,but yet hard to believe taht everyother thing goes unnoticed.I hope the girl gets peace and justice.Thats all is needed.
