If we build a new reactor, how will it be classified? Will it, by default, be civilian whereby it comes under IAEA inspection or it's upto Indian Government to decide if it's Civilian or Military.
The forum does not discuss why we need this deal keeping long term benefits in mind. India has hostile neighbours. Pak, Chin, Bangladesh etc all are united. They have become very powerful economically and militarily. It is hardly now impossible that a war jointly by atleast china and pak may happen sooner than later. China's economic might will ensure that pak and bangladesh will be helped like us and ussr did in the middle east thereby crippling india for ever. they have succeeded in nepal this way. india is just a few years away. the middle east hostory shows that aligning with one of the powers wil always help in deterring countries like china etc. israel successfully first used france, then usa to diplomatically win over arabs. and militarily they succeeded in developing their own deterrence and offense. India is just doing the same and we have no other option going forward. the future will be again be bipolar with usa and china as the two superpowers. it is time every indian realised this.
Further, people who are complaining about pm focussing on inflation than nuclear deal do not realise that inflation is a short term issue. in long term, fuel costs will increase the inflation always since fuel is less in earth. nuclear energy will help reduce our energy needs thereby scope of inflation. further, arab countries are or will be anyways inimical to india when china and pak appears. usa would only the power to control fuel prices in future. it therefore makes sense to h
Tell Me, Why and How Nepal Military has given up to the Maoists While AP Police Could Successfully ELIMINATE or Drive Away the Maoists ???
Nepal has not fallen to China/Pak But Verily the USA.
It is the Italian Agent Maino Who Denied Arms Supply, for Which Nepal Sincerely Believed in India. And That Put Nepal Royal Army in a Miserable Situation.
And the Same Maino's Nominee has Actively taken up this Indo-US Nuke Deal. He is the One who ultimately decides the Fine Print of the Deal.
That One Reason is Enough to Reject this Deal.
MMS was forced on India By IMF in 1991. There was no dearth of Economists who could revive Indian Economy. After All, It was the political Ideology that failed it.
The Same Agent has Got to the helm in the Name of UnHoly aka Secular Forces.
Why should he all of a Sudden Appear in USA and be warmly recieved by Bush ? Why Should the 123 Agreement be All of a Sudden be Signed with out Telling Anybody ?? Why is the 'Civilian' IAEA Agreement text Confidential When China is a Powerful Member of IAEA and NSG And thus on the Otherside of the Table ???
RE:RE:why the deal
by TheOneAndOnly on Jul 08, 2008 09:19 PM Permalink
Understand All these So called Powers are Bankrupt And Also have a HUGE HUGE LANDs which are fast getting BARREN.
They want to Enslave India thru these Deals. And For than they want Weaken India from within. Thus these Safegaurds Agreements.
While All other Nations have put only 16 Reactors under International Safegaurds, India under this Agreement will have to put 22 Reactors under Safegaurds. Can You Smell the Rot.
The learned people on this board are driven un-necessarily by the un-holy remarks of the left Commies to let them have the details, Are you an expert on the subject? If not then better leave it up to them to do their job for the country in a professional manner. This is something like if their is a war and the Indian Army has planned a counter offensive then the likes of Prakash Karats will demand the white paper on the plans of the counter offensive! I believe you will agree with me that you don’t need to ask about it because the safety of the army will be in danger! Have we not won the wars in 1965, 1971 and then again the Kargil war? As a responsible citizen let everybody do his job in a relevant manner and see the results. If we poke our nose in every matter then neither we will be able to do our job nor will they be able to complete their jobs in the time, leading to un-necessary losses..! Once the results are out then we can plan our course of action. Have we forgotten MMS is the same gentleman who was called upon by Mr.Narsimha Rao on an S.O.S. to revive the health of our economy which was on the verge of bankruptcy? And he did IT with great success. Where was the left at that time? Moreover, the PMO has already revealed a draft overview of The IAEA Safeguards Agreement.. But why is the left so interested in this particular document? So that it can be blocked at the next stage in NSG? Is this not just another excuse to block the deal...
RE:IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by atanu on Jul 08, 2008 08:59 PM Permalink
Well we are not expert on the subject.So what is the subject accoding to you we are dealing here - nuclear science, physics, mathematics? So who within "them" according to you have got that subject expertise - Prime Minister, Foreign Minister,India's delegates to UN or IAEA, or Lalu Prasad Yadab. Dont underestimate the value of knowledge sharing and discussion for citizens. this keeps democracy alive.
RE:RE:RE:IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by INDER KRISHEN WALI on Jul 08, 2008 09:09 PM Permalink
Remember that this nation is not being run by uncanny politicians but the experts in the wings of IAS, IFS, Scientists , Economists and our world class military. All politicians are mere spokes persons.iN ALL DEMOCRACIES IT IS THE EXPERTS IN THEIR REPECTIVE FIELDS WHO DO THE NECESSARY GROUNDWORK... The leaders and politicians just sign on the dotted line...! Hope you are enlightened now..
RE:IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by atanu on Jul 08, 2008 09:48 PM Permalink
It seems that you need enlightenment.Nuclear scientists dont become IAS, IFS...Only ordinary graduates and post-graduates become IAS,IFS.The IAS,IFS you are talking are being readied my next door and all the time they do is to read books after books. Thats all about IAS,IFS. The real experts you are talking here are not within government.Inside government, there is hardly any expert, except in few affiliated agencies like TIFR,BARC who may or may not have any role in this nuclear deal. On top of it, the core aspect of nuclear deal is not about technology, as you have seemed to misinterpreted, it is about politics - more specifically international politics and economics. There you dont need your IAS,IFS expertise, rather you need vision of Manmohan Singh and politicians like him. In conclusion, your understanding shows your lack of "practical" knowledge about the functioning and role of government. You seem to have little bit of information for having a tea-party discussion. But as I have said, rest of the rediff forum people have much more knowledge and experience of international pact works and happens, so dont discourage them to discuss here.
RE:IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by INDER KRISHEN WALI on Jul 08, 2008 09:04 PM Permalink
Cont..This is yet another excuse to block the deal & gain some cheap popularity in the face of their odd situation in West Bengal & Kerela. Let us first have a document on what has been rate of growth of West Bengal & Kerela during the rule of the commies.For Bengal Mamta Bannerjee will be the best guide.All know that the International airports in Kerela were developed with the financial aid from their brethren in Gulf countries earned with their sweat & blood.The learned Commies have not been able to show growth in small states,then what do we expect from them on a national scale. Well,it has already been known that IAEA Safeguards Agreement is all about Inspections (how, when and why of it). This is also very much an 'India specific' agreement to make necessary changes to the US & international nuclear restrictions on any trade with India. It has been specifically drafted to the advantage of India with the special efforts of the Government of India keeping our strategic interests in mind. The text will be used for wrangling with the NSG for approval. It has also been known to the public which of the civilian reactors will be subject to inspection and not the ones designated for military purposes. It also has the right to pull out something from the civilian side when required. Latest news is that China has agreed to support India at the IAEA Meet. What is the depth of the relation of the commies with their principals? Let them have fresh instructions from them.
Imagine knickerwallahs talking of Democracy. They ask "Are we Democaratic Country? Why can't details of the deal be shared?"
Fair enough. Did Vajpayee take the permission of people of India before blasting the bomb in Pokhran II. No he did. It resulted in significant consequences for the nation such as trade and nuclear embargos.
While the trade embargos were soon lifted, the NSG was constituted by the US as a reaction to Pokhran II. After NSG was established, spares and uranium fuel was denied to India and even friendly countries like Russia and France were dissuaded not to supply these to us.
So if Vajpayee can take a momentous decision that have long term consequence for India without consulting Indians, then why cannot MMS.
Besides, if not for Pokhran II, we need not even sign this current deal with the US. So if one wants to blame the deal as anti-national, blame Vajpayee and the NDA government first.
RE:Knickerwallahs talking of Democracy is Hialrious
by All Right on Jul 08, 2008 08:48 PM Permalink
Yes there is a difference. CPM's opposition is mainly because they are allergic to closer ties with the US, who they consider the most powerful imperialistic power in the world - the leader in the pack of all imperialistic powers.
The BJP's opposition is simply to prevent Congress taking the credit for a watershed deal and running away with BJP's urban vote base
In 1999, Vajpayee as PM and in 2000 Jaswant Singh as Foreign Minister of NDA, on the floor of the UN General Assembly categorically gave an assurance that India will refrain from nuclear tests, justifying such a position that India had no need to test.
So the BJP has made a turnaround. They now say that the deal reiterates the stand Vajpayee and Jaswant Singh made at the UN General Assembly and so they oppose the deal.
The NDA government was keen to sign such a deal with worse terms. Fortunately for India, the NDA fell
What the Left and BJP wants us to do is accept petrol rationing, power load shedding etc. We need to teach those opposing the nuclear deal a lesson by our votes
RE:Knickerwallahs talking of Democracy is Hialrious
by All Right on Jul 09, 2008 07:46 AM Permalink
My CLONE:
You go and teach all lessons you wanna teach... :-)
We'll watch the 2009 general elections with considerable interest... :-) Coz AFTER signing the deal, the Congress will definitely have to come back to the issues of the common man... After all N-deal cannot forever be a shield against taking any other actions for the nation,... innit?.. :-)
RE:Knickerwallahs talking of Democracy is Hialrious
by JGN on Jul 08, 2008 08:55 PM Permalink
All Right, just two days back, Indian Atomic Energy Commission Chairman, mr. Anil Kakodkar had said we have enough uranium resources for generation of 10,000 MWe power but the present capacity of all Nuclear Power Plants in India under NPCIL is just 2740 MWe. Why are we not utilizing the balance available capacity before running after a one sided deal?
The present deal with US will benefit only the US Equipment manufacturers and the Politicians/Bureaucrats who can earn kick-backs. We do not even manufacture Stand-by Diesel Generating Sets meant for Nuclear Power Plants. The cost of dismantling a Nuclear Power Plant is much more than the cost of installation. There are always chances of accidents like that of Chernobyl. No new Nuclear Power Plant has come up in the US for the last 15 years.
Now this is grave and damn serious.You are telling me that you can not share this agreement with IAEA, a UN and intergovernmental agency and Republic of India, to her citizens? Do you have any idea what you are talking about and what you are going to do? this is not a security plan, Mr. Mukherjee, this is an energy issue.
RE:AKALIS DONT WANT TO VOTE AGINST SIKH PM
by Bharat Kr on Jul 08, 2008 08:34 PM Permalink
Patriotic Hindus will never support the deal in its present form. Those Jaichands Hindus, they can do anything. Congress is full of Jaichands Hindus, and they can do anything for their personal gain.
RE:AKALIS DONT WANT TO VOTE AGINST SIKH PM
by All Right on Jul 08, 2008 08:45 PM Permalink
So why is the ultra patriot - your Great Narendra Modi silent? He knows that just like Karat, Senile Advani is taking the BJP to a path of self-destruction
RE:RE:AKALIS DONT WANT TO VOTE AGINST SIKH PM
by Bharat Kr on Jul 08, 2008 08:34 PM Permalink
Patriotic Hindus will never support the deal in its present form. Those Jaichands Hindus, they can do anything. Congress is full of Jaichands Hindus, and they can do anything for their personal gain.
RE:AKALIS DONT WANT TO VOTE AGINST SIKH PM
by Islah Indian on Jul 08, 2008 08:41 PM Permalink
Hindus are the pioneer of the deal, they want it at all costs. NDA was ready to sign even worse deal than this. This one at least has been negotiated, thanks to left parties.
Why in s democracy should an elected government enter into an agreement with any body like IAEA, the details of which cannot be shared with other elected members simply because they are not in the government. Is government an entirely separate entity from the Lok sabha and the rajya sabha. How can opposition be termed as a third party, or the supporters of the ruling coalition be a third party? Are the people of India an untrustworthy lot whose welfare is understood well only by teme servers like pranav and company. It gives rise to the suspicion that the nuclear security of a 1000 million people is being sold down the river by UPA. It smacks of arrogance to say that the gist of the agreement is sufficient. If the gist is a faithful gist that leaves nothing out from the original, then shy not disclose the full version. Such secrecy is antithetical in a democracy, particularly when so crucial an issue as controls on the use of nuclear facilities is being considered. at this rate the governement can allow foreign and Indian corportions to use Indians for testing drugs, biological weapons, etc under the garb of secrecy. One has no love for he left parties whose ideal is China, but in the secrecy that congress insists on, one smells an enormous rat that far outsmells Bofors.
Why you can't show the text to the party, whose support you run the govt? Left have legitimate right to asked for the texts. Without Left support there is no govt. Congress and Left playing a friendly football match to cover their four years total failures. They trying to divert real issues facing the people and the nation. Price rise, inflation, farmers suicides, agricultural crisis, terror atatcks, are the real issues. People will teach these traitors a lession.
RE:Why you can't show the text to party, whose support you run the govt four years?
by All Right on Jul 08, 2008 11:28 PM Permalink
They are not in the government. And during the last 4 1/2 years, they did not support UPA but was undermining it, stalling the reform process
RE:Dear all long term effect of the deal is too bad.It will kkep our country under US.like iraq any time IAEA (in effect USA) will come and search in our country for inspection.So this time indian should (even BJP) stand with muslims.
by All Right on Jul 08, 2008 11:30 PM Permalink
Grat melodrama. Do you think everyone else are so imbecile that they will buy your pseudo scare scenario
RE:All this Drama enacted by Communist, Islamic Congress and SP
by Bharat Kr on Jul 08, 2008 08:28 PM Permalink
Mayavati will derive the real benefit and perhaps become the Deputy PM or PM in next loksabha.
RE:All this Drama enacted by Communist, Islamic Congress and SP
by All Right on Jul 08, 2008 11:31 PM Permalink
Advani cannot be PM without Mayawati as his Deputy.
