When one considers the similarity of ancient pagan legends and beliefs with Christian traditions if one believes with Justin Martyr, then indeed the Devil must have been a very busy person to have caused these pagans to imitate for such long ages and in such widespread localities the Christian mysteries. Indeed, Edward Carpenter comments, "One has only, instead of the word "Jesus'"to read Dionysis or Krishna or Hercules or Osiris or Attis, and instead of "Mary" to insert Semele or Devaki or Alcmene or Neith or Nona, and for Pontius Pilate to use the name of any terrestrial tyrant who comes into the corresponding story, and lo! the creed fits in all particulars into the rites and worship of a pagan God.
Your justification for conversion is because you believe hindus gave unneccary importance to brahmins,even though you dont hate catholics giving not only importance but power to pope. Then you tell us another reason for hating hinduism,education.Even though history gives us testimony that hinu kings did open schools for all,even the jains and buddhist did so their schools were called palis.But you cannot respect them nor can you respect muslims to impart persian education to us and making few of us sharia lawyers and hakims?double standard.
Then you tell us christains hate hinduism because we dont have proof for our GOd(even if presented with tons of it),Neither you give us proof of GOd,Living Jesus in heaven,Adam and eve Moses parting red sea,jesus perfommming miracles,jesus acending to heaven.Though all the miracles sound funny and illlegical to a neutral person,you guys get offeneded if we dont beleive.Because the only proof you give us is it is written in BIBLE so.
It is written in bible that idol worship is SIN so I beleive it,that's it circular logic at its best.
RE:@cape
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:34 PM Permalink
Being Christain means "beleiving only Jesus will deliver us from SIN and he is our SAVIOR" All christains give this parioted answers,but they dont clarify what constitute SIN,the very foundation of christanity,From what has jesus saved us?Hell.Can a person go to Hell and be happy to see all our hindu ancestors specially our grandparents,YES definetly.I really hope we go to hell to be with our parents and family,Since it is said only few will go to heaven.Catholic beleive only they or people among catholics will go to heaven.Now lets say this is true,lets say cape is protestant,What will be your reaction if you find yourself with us in HELL.What will your attitude be to GOD JESUS and HINdus over their?please answer this.
RE:@cape
by bullseye on Feb 16, 2008 11:56 AM Permalink
christianity die naturaly in west/u s on reasons 1)recent survey reported in''the times''of new york ''60%americans are hindus'' as they believe in karma and re birth in line with hindus faith. 2)in west and america, instead of burying the deads for resurrection to heaven with jesus,now americans/west prefer cremation by fire in gas chambers- more than 40%prefer it and in practice this belief and preference for cremation in fire like hindus shake christianity fundamental as the believe for resurrection to heaven on judgement day.so west/americans follow hinduism 3)americans and west believe in yogo which is of totally pure science of rishes/yogis of hindu 60% americans learn yogo and have to read bagwat geetha in this process. 4)americans believe in karmic astrology and vedic astrology which is purly of hinduism science for more than 5000 years while western astrology which came before just 100 years died naturaly due to its wrong concept like in bible all planets/stars are fixed in orbit by lord and earth is stationary while sun is revolving. there are more than 10,000 vedic astrologers in american itself. 5)americans/west are becoming vegitarians now becouse they do not want to eat fleshs of animals, as they believe all living beings like birds,animals,plants,trees are having soul while christianity says these were created by lord for the pleasure of human beings. one village community in damanhur,near vatigan in italy of 30,000 people are vegitarians be
RE:@cape
by Global Hindu on Feb 15, 2008 10:24 PM Permalink
There are many unanswered questions like the following.
Judas betreyed Jesus. Well, according to Bible, Jesus was never a secret preacher. He preached openly and everyone know where he was. He also discussed religion with priests in temples.
Jesus never appreared in History books. History doenst know Jesus. There were many Jewish historians who lived around 1st century and none of them mentioned Jesus.
If xianity says that it is their faith, I respect their faith as a Hindu has to . But if they say that the contents of Bible are true history, I have 1000000000 quetions.
RE:@cape
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 11:53 PM Permalink
Lets not become like them global hindu,Like they like to call Ram and krishna as myth,sighting few anti-hindu historian.Question is not wheter Jesus was real historic figure or not,the question is the very foundation that HE IS BORN OF VIRGIN ,HE IS GOD ONLY SON,DIED AND RESURECTED These mimimum requirement for somebody to be a christain ,has no outer proof. Even BIBLe does not give 100 percent undoughtful proofs for that.Hence the christain dogma lies flat.Hence they end up saying "IN faith we beleive NOT BY PROOF".Going by their double standard they expect us to give proof in all our GOds,even though we are not bound by any God or all GOds.Read keonaraad elst available online,Read phycology of secularism - Secular look at the bible.A must must must read for all hindus ,if you want to stop conversion to christainity.
RE:@cape
by JGN on Feb 16, 2008 10:54 AM Permalink
Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
RE:RE:@cape
by bullseye on Feb 16, 2008 12:27 PM Permalink
in hinduism,salvation is for every living being including human beings,birds,animals,reptiles, marine living creatures.example bird jadayu in ramayanma, lord ram granted moksha to this bird for fighting adharmic ravana.hence we treat all other living creatures with love and affection as due to bad karma,animals,birds have taken this janma.all above are knowledble in the sense they protect their interest.christianity has no answer to the salvation for trees,animals,birds ect but believe salvation which is one time affair for them either to hell or heaven permanent.hence in the absense of re-birth and karma,they can not explain about inequality of living beings- say different race,shape,colour, rich/poor,educated/uneducated,goodhealth/bad health ect.suddent death/natural death ect.only in hinduism we can have answer.old timer christians have now realised this and never attend churches nowadays and hence drop of church goers in west and also in cities in india
RE:RE:@cape
by bullseye on Feb 16, 2008 12:13 PM Permalink
contd, damanhur,near vatigan in italy,community of 30,000 people grow plants,trees,animals,birds and play music to above and found plants/trees respond to music in same tune and vibrations which was shown to indian audience in mumbai recently.these people are vegitarians and love animals,plants and believe having immortal soul and becouse of karma in previous birth,plants are having such senses.if u touch one tree leaves,entire tree leaves are closed-such tree is common in india.similarly tamarind tree will sleep in night with its leaves closing and opens upon sunlight.dogs have senses to find out the death of its master or nearby people 2/3 days before the depart of soul from the person.it will weep with peculier sound.same sense of soul searching is done by police dogs in tracing the thiefs/killers.so dogs have 6th sense to forcast the bad event.astrologicaly dogs as animal and crow as bird vahana for lord saturn,plant of death.hinduism is meaningful and full of science.rig veda and surya sidandha talks of sun light speed more accurate which was confirmed by scientists much later. bagwat geeta lord krishna tells about earth shape of oval and its rotation 5000 years ago while galilio later agreed to this for which he was punished by rome chrsitians for which pope regreted last year.soon pope will regret for everything harms caused by xtianity.
Ape doesnt understand Hinduism. He is like a frog in a well. As a Hindu, I believe in Vedanta and dont have to believe in puranas to become HIndu. Hiduism is a belief system that has wonderful spiritual sigficance. I dont have to take puranas to be historical facts. They lead me to the concept of GOD within the creation concept. I can reject Sati, Caste and many other social problems and still be a Hindu. I can perfectly distinguish between faith and science.
Xianity is no way near this. As a xian, you are required to believe that people from other religions go to hell. For you, Jesus turned water into wine and walked on water is as true as Newtons first law. To be short, one has to be 100% branwashed to be a xian.
You are mixing the situation in ancient India with modern India. I do not know whether you are confused or trying to confuse me. "I dont know about that community but navigators,navigational traders require education to maintain business may be simple math and litracy."- First you wrote about fishermen. Now you have written about navigators and traders(or navigational trader - I do not know what you meant to say). Every person, now or then, knows basic arithmetic. Do you call it education? Fishermen, and no socalled lowcaste people were allowed to study science and relgious texts. This is the fact. There were schools run by brahins mostly in their houses. Only brahmins and some upper-caste people were allowed get admission in those schools. This is not my imagination but what is recorded in the history. You are simply trying to conceal this fact. "hindu culture of respecting the teacher that tradition is still there" - As for my knowledge no culture in the world disrespect teachers. And FYI there is no hindu culture but there are many cultures in India. Respect for teachers is on the decrease nowadays. "so their is no question of some one becomming lawyer" - You misunderstood my message. What I meant was that lowcastes were not allowed to take respectable jobs. "There was no point in others taking this prophetion " - What if a lowcaste is so intelligent that he wish to learn medicine but not allowed citing his caste? Is n't it an injustice? "If you go by
RE:@r patil
by Cape Comorin on Feb 15, 2008 02:16 PM Permalink
"If you go by Manu Smriti ...education for non brahmin caste was not an issue" - Are you kidding. Manusmiriti is biased in favour of brahmins. This is the universal truth. If you do not know about it please read Manusmiriti which is freely available in the net. "That's why the people(brahmins) who were obliged to do so only they took it,rest others gave them respect(giving respect does not mean giving money)" - What you meant by 'obliged' to do so? Who gave licence only to brahmins to learn vedas? Brahmins earned lot of money by conducting yagas and many other formalities. Brahmins have been fed freely in 'satrams'. In Travancore, there were satrams called ootupura where brahmins got free food. FYI more than 7% of the total govt. expense was for maintaining these ootupuras. "Now with changing times the person who earns is only respected" - How the situation changed over time? It is only because of western education thanks to christian missionaries. But people like you do not appreciate the great service rendered by missionaries instead abuse them. Ironically you guy salutes brahmins whose contribution to the society is nearly zero.
RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:05 PM Permalink
Brahmins server are God by our request,missioneries abuse our God,now why appreciate this?I wonder.I dont want to read any manu - smriti because I know Iam telling the truth,how is that so many lower cast saints pened down their thoughts and poems,how does the low cast and poor helvis maintain record of my ancestors name(they keep the record in kannada,we are marathi speaking people).My surname is patil that we did tax collecting and police job for the british,who had to submit records to the british,how is it possible without menimum literacy(though my father generation was first to go to school,my generation first to go to college).Again many things in this world can be done with little education,most of us our under employed. Learning vedas takes minimum 12 yrs just to learn one rid veda dear,so many of them became happy just by getting to eat.Now think of the population in the christain monestries which get its money by running schools subsidienced by the governemnt and by the devatees 0%share of the income.But I dont see anybody complaining that,even though schools are the most currpt after police(this is being found in survey)plus even though they are suppose to be of servive sake it is the most easy way to make tons.Anyway any countries progress cannot depend only on office job(govt job) just to give employment,like J&K and kerala where the centre gives them more than their share of money to maintain the emloyment,directly they rely on other state to generate mone
RE:RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:12 PM Permalink
Conti; But I dont see anybody complaining that,even though schools are the most currpt after police(this is being found in survey)plus even though they are suppose to be of servive sake it is the most easy way to make tons.Anyway any countries progress cannot depend only on office job(govt job) just to give employment,like J&K and kerala where the centre gives them more than their share of money to maintain the emloyment,directly they rely on other state to generate money.All civilization have and India today even now depend on Agriculture,this is one sector which emplyoes the most people,which does not require all to be very high educated,minimum illetracy is enough.This is what Iam telling,pastor and priest are paid heavely with salary,pension and commusion for each convert.Now you call this service.Since hindus value traditions and pay for the poor brahmin servive with food to eat that becomes a extravanga spending.Anyway the countries who could support many brahmin by their sulplus money where called rich nation.Marath kings could not afford it,neither a thailand king could afford immense number of people becomming monks.But what can one do,you cannot religious and think of spending on religion keepers at the same time.No wonder i have read so many westerner critizing the missineries their call to donate and call to give generouly,since it is they you live on other people earning.THey(padris) are bound to say please give us money in the name of God so that he may give
RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 09:28 PM Permalink
Why my this post is marked for abuse I dont no. I only sugested that governemnt subsidised school runned by our tax money should be taken over by the governemnt.Or it can do one thing make all high educated people to morally be satisfied with only two square meals,that's it,if that is the case how many of us will take higher education?Most of us take higher education to earn money,that's it not to earn respect.Since people get angry on Brahmins only because SOME took higher education only for the sake of it,which in return gave them two square meals and respect,Like becomming a doctor,or mathametician.Most of the maths discovered by them is being used now,not then.
RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 11:45 PM Permalink
There is no point in getting angry on Brahmin for this reason,and hence giving justification of conversion.Even historically conversion (even many brahmins were converted )to christainity has happened by force,not by brahmin baiting.Anyway any religion taken for the hate of the previous religion,that to leaving a democratic every changing laws religion converting to a autocratic religion filled with Slavery both theoritical and practical,shows how stupid one can be.
Ape Comorin doesnt have news about the demise of Xianity in the west. Hindu revivalism is starting from west and reaching India. The demise of Xianity started in the west. It will reach India one day.
RE:Ape Comorin
by Cape Comorin on Feb 15, 2008 11:29 AM Permalink
You are worshipping apes as gods and you are abusing me as apes. Do you think that I am your god or do you think that your ape-gods, hanuman a big ape for example, are subject to ridicule and humiliation?
RE:Ape Comorin
by galilio on Feb 15, 2008 12:04 PM Permalink
cape comorin does not know A-Z of xtian history bible verses of four gospel,recent happenings in west and usa.anyhow christian will be wiped out by christians themselves and not by other religions. you know the reason why-read below in bible all gospel have verses to portray jesus as''morning star'' and ''evening star''not realising the fact the only plant venus is appearing as bright star in the morning and also in evening and hence called as ''morning star'' and also as ''evening star''. xtians did not realise then at the time of bible writting this fact and truth. now satan (in sanskrit, meaning is not truth) is none but an angel lucifier who was with father god in heaven and who made adam and eve to eat forbitten fig tree fruit.to do this job lucifier came as serpent.hence was booted out to earth by god along with adam and eve and later same lucifer turned to be satan. lucifier name is given by same christians theory as venus ,repeat venus planet. so both jesus and satan are portrayed as venus. same venus is portrayed as both morning star and evening star for jesus and same venus is portrayed as satan (lucifier known as venus ). so christ vs satan means venus vs venus. cape, kindly try to correct your bible and theory of xtians like often pope doing corrections like pope last year denied the visit of st thomas to south india which invited protest from xtians in chennai as they have a tomb near chennai for st thomas . xtian is nothing but a cook up story ,
RE:RE:Ape Comorin
by Cape Comorin on Feb 15, 2008 01:44 PM Permalink
Buddy, it is not hinduism to write any story by any one and later on to be believed by hindus. If you are good at writing stories on religion better write a new purana, say gallilonandha-purana, you will be worshipped as a god by poor hindus.
RE:Ape Comorin
by galilio on Feb 15, 2008 04:55 PM Permalink
cape is living in flat earth as per his faith while we live in oval earth as per bagwath geeta verses which is a pure science which was copied by newton in his thermo dynamic theory, speed of light (suriya sidhandtha tells exactly the speed of light and also rig veda )later newton copied and made as a discovery.
RE:RE:RE:Ape Comorin
by galilio on Feb 15, 2008 04:23 PM Permalink
IT IS UNFAIR ON THE PARY OF REDIFF TO TREAT MY POSTING ABUSED AND REMOVED WHILE MAINTAINING THE POST OF OTHER BELIEVERS. REDIFF IT LOOKS BECOME MORE PSEDUO SECULARIST.
I need some serious developers to develop this website to perform activities that serves world community and not just Indian. Its time we bring forward our Hindu belief system of non-violence and co-existence to the world and a right way to lead our lives. Lets identify the issues regions are facing and heal them. GIve your email address to so I can contact you. Getting Defensive against religion conversionists wont help.
I have to give you a Nobel Prize for your invention of my community! This itself shows how stupid you are. FYI there is no such 'parasar' community in our area though fishing community is there. I do not belong to fisher-men community though I know much about their culture and life-style due to proximity. Fishing does not require education but experience and the courage. As they are living on side of sea they naturally develop such courage. Their life is never miserable unless storms occurred in the sea.
Overall they are not under poverty line but only some are rich. They get educated only after embracing christianity. They are happy to be christians so people like you need not shed crocodile tears for them.
RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 07:57 AM Permalink
education has become important now,it wasnt then.I dont know about that community but navigators,navigational traders require education to maintain business may be simple math and litracy.As for education is conserned all in hindu society were allowed to get one,provided they got education only if their profetion required.That's why you could see non-brahmin money lenders,tax collectors,panchayat leaders,traders,enterprenars(who traded with forieng countries).Where as teacher is one such profession which was and now is most low paid one,only thing because of hindu culture of respecting the teacher that tradition is still there.Now if the leaving condition of both fishermen(money wise)and brahmin teacher is same then why would anybody choose this profetion.Now for the lawyer,well even muslims gave education to become lawyers(sharia lawyer since islam was the state religion)so what's the big deal they even gave persian education(which few persians and brahmin took up since not many understood it not even the muslims).Hindu court system was panchayat level and cast panchayat(each cast made certain laws for its own members),so their is no question of some one becomming lawyer.Now with doctor,this profession took a leap in european society only resently.The Indian who were dctors required spending many years educating plus practical experience,hence got transfered hieriditary.There was no point in others taking this prophetion leveling their parents prophetion because vedas never
RE:RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:19 AM Permalink
conti There was no point in others taking this prophetion leveling their parents prophetion because vaids never earned much(people who lived by that profession alone ever never the richest,infact very ordinary),So even now if doctors earn every little nobody will take that profession(because of the money and time,education )required.My friend took up IIT eng even though he had got MBBS ,because he had seen his Dr fathers and all his relative doctors plight.The point Iam telling you is If you go by Manu Smriti and also by practical hindu society behabiour education for non brahmin cast was not a issue,hence you find poems pened by non - brahmins too and even the written genelogy kept by lower cast(atleast in our place one cast called as helvis i.e tellers keep a written record of our ancestors name,though they are non-brahmin poor MBCaste) May be vedas was restriced,but only to the peole comming from SC cate not to others.people who had time and money royal they did take up studying vedas(which requires 12 yrs to byheart only the rig ved)That's why the people(brahmins) who were obliged to do so only they took it,rest others gave them respect(giving respect does not mean giving money)that's it. Now with changing times the person who earns is only respected and the opinion cared for,hence a doctor or engineer,lawyer with low profile earning his social status is less compared to illetarate rich businessmen(My place is flooded with rich brahmin sweet-mart purohit who study on
RE:RE:RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:21 AM Permalink
conti (My place is flooded with rich brahmin sweet-mart purohit who study only till 10 and even the boys get married at the age of 18).So you see in olden days brahmins by doing brahmin job did not earned much,certainly they were not super rich,lus that requires lot of hard studies,which others did not seem necessary to indulge in ,as they were not obliged to study vedas(even now though veda teaching is availabe for all to do,still we dont go for it.)hence the people who do the this job are respected,that's it.
RE:@r patil
by Global Hindu on Feb 15, 2008 08:10 AM Permalink
They get educated, but become more intolerent than uneducated Hindus. They hate Indian culture and "GOD in all all concept". Political Xianity never had spirituality.
RE:RE:@r patil
by r patil on Feb 15, 2008 08:29 AM Permalink
That's what Iam telling him ,many Goan who were forcefully converted were brahmins the already educated class,It is not that non-brahmins were not educated early,but they took education only if required for bread earning.Even muslim ruler though never build any universities ,but infact destroyed many,they also gave madarsa litracy in persian for the desiered.But taking education by paying taxes,portugese took heavy taxes from hindus and eve christains(let say even free education)does not mean ,the people who took the education,become automatically obliged to convert.I know many christain feel it is their birth right to set up educational institute(subsidied by tax payer),and they really feel people studying their haave moral obligation to convert.May be that's why the arch bishop of chennai asked catholic to study only in catholic schools (not in governemnt school or protestent school).
RE:RE:@r patil
by Cape Comorin on Feb 15, 2008 02:19 PM Permalink
"They get educated, but become more intolerent than uneducated Hindus." - This is your mentality. Do not attribute it to christians. "They hate Indian culture " - There is no Indian culture but India has many cultures. In fact christianity has refined our cultures. Prohibition of sati and devadasi system are the best examples. "Political Xianity never had spirituality" - I agree with this statement.
