Guys, I think Govt wants to avoid conversions by giving reservations to lower caste people. The conversions amoung lower caste people into other religions (especially Christianity) in all south indians states are at alarminig state. They see lot of benefits and advantages than being a hindu dalit, such as education for their chldren, better social status and many more. all most 80% of dalits from AP have converted into christianity in past 5 years!!! Do some thing otherwise a day will come where only upper caste people like Brahmins, Kshatriayas etc.. will remain as hindus and the rest will be wiped out!! This will also increase christians in the country.
RE:To avoid conversions
by Madan Mohan Reddy on Apr 10, 2008 08:04 PM Permalink
What you said is right with poor dalit people, but not with OBCs. Many OBCs are having their own houses with enough money to send their children to private schools and colleges to be competitive. I recommend SC to include a clause "only people who have studied in govt schools are eligible for reservation".
RE:To avoid conversions
by anand singh on Apr 10, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
when a religion offers people solace and a philosophy where people are allowed to worship freely, they will flock to it. Hindu dalits are prevented from entering temples but they are invited to churches. so no power in the world can stop conversions.
RE:To avoid conversions
by Indian Dictator on Apr 10, 2008 07:58 PM Permalink
The main problem with Hindus is their mentality, ages ago they dominated all lower level people, these poor people suffered in their hands because there was no choice. but now its different. They are treated as respectable people and also their children will get Convent education. The advantage is once all Dalits are converted who will avail these reservations? so guys don't panic, encourage dalits to convert into Christianity.
RE:RE:To avoid conversions
by deepak on Apr 10, 2008 09:02 PM Permalink
Wrong analysis...Hindus dont treat anyone any worse..in USA they burn black churches, and Muslim societies have made absolutely no progress for the downtrodden- indeed it is worse- you dont see any person from the lower levels in Pakistan political or civil life..Christianity & Islam are designed to convert and create chaos with lies of being 'saved' and 'jannat with 72 houris'...it is unfortunate that independent India has left Hinduism, the grandest and most tolerant of all spiritual disciplines totally neglected..its sad, that social problems of an ancient society has been highlighted and not the lofty ideals of Hinduism....your bravado of Christian conversions is temporary...Christianity today is a spent force in Europe which is why radical islam has made inroads..unless religious supremacy of Islam & Christianity are neutralized the world will suffer from Jihad & Crusades. India has to promote Hinduism, not just for itself but for the entire world.
RE:To avoid conversions
by Mera Bharat on Apr 10, 2008 07:51 PM Permalink
Dear Friend, The people who converted to Christianity were poor Adivasis.There children need reservation & help at lower levels of education.The reservation in higher education will benefit to only those so said Dalits who are already in good position & there children's arenot capable to get admission in these institutes on the basis of merit. So if government want to do something good for the real poor & authentic Dalits, it should provide them more support in basic education. All these Dalits are controled by Upper level so said Dalits & they are the one who will get benefitted by this reservation.But as they control the Dalit voters, Government is playing politics & benefiting them ..
Every one seems to think that only IITians, IIM grads, AIIMS fellows and other highly qualified professionals run the country. Get the mindset that an iit engineer is as important as the cook who feeds him, the driver who takes him to work, the labourer who laid the road for him to go to work, the farmer who made the grub, the so called filthy sc who removes shit to manure the field . without all these links an iitian is as good as dirt and I am an iitian myself.
RE:RE:very good decision
by anand singh on Apr 10, 2008 07:54 PM Permalink
Think manoj think. the table u r sitting and typing is made by a carpenter, otherwise u will be sitting on the ground doing nothing and we will be losing a productive guy. my idea is that the carpenter is also very productive as all other profeesionals and should be equally paid
Yes, we need this quota for thousands of years. Its very simply said for how many decades do we need to implement this quota system. My dear friends first tell me who implimented the quota system at the first place thousands of years back? The upper caste people. they made this whole system of Caste. Lower caste people have been always marginalised. They have been tortured by every means for thousands of years by every body Say, Hindu Kings, Mughual Kings, British Empire and Now, our own people. They consitute the 60% of 110 crores of entire population. See the Mandal Commission report.. what it says at the time the report was prepared: 1] 96% jobs are taken by Upper caste people. Reason: they have always been upper caste with full access to education, power and money for thousands of year. They are already (mentally) prosperous & rich.
But, the poor people who have been always ruled upon with no mental development at all.
Then, can we expect these people to be mentally developed in 10-20 years. Its impossible. It takes generations.
Friends India still lives in villages with 70% still living in villages with no proper access to power, education & infrastructure.
Those are taking sides of privatisation. Friend , check the fees of private institutions, we middle class cannot afford it. then, what about others. They are here to make profit out of their business not to do social service.
RE:This is being practical
by Mera Bharat on Apr 10, 2008 08:10 PM Permalink
Here is the point ..You said "But, the poor people who have been always ruled upon with no mental development at all" . The poor people are not from a perticular cast. They are never always from a lower cast. So the quto system should be on the basis of economical conditions. Cast basis is only used to divide & rule . Now the second point..The first point is justified as it says to bring up the poor people upto the satatus where they live a good life.Then after that why dont we keep Comes the higher education (MBA, MS, MD)on merit basis.This education is for the one who can really have that much talent.If you have then you will be there.It will make you richer only on the basis of talent & if you have more talent & more guts you should have a better life than others. We should try to bring Lower class to middle class & after achiving middle class they should be in higher class on the basis of merit. 99.9% cannot jump directly. So this reservation will only help those OBC's who are already in middle or upper middle class & controls the total lower class & as they control these guys, government is playing poliics for votes..
RE:This is being practical
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 08:27 PM Permalink
Mera Bharat I never used reservation. Most OBC's comes in top 10 students either in IIM's or AIIM's. Though I don't know whether reservation is good or bad. I don't know how many Yadav are living below poverty line. But wherever I went I see few OBC's as compared to other people. Also, My family is economically well off, I wont be qualified for this reservation. Its all politics, In the end OBC's will loose because private sector will become more baised towards OBCs. OBCs will have degree but no job. Actually its nothing to do with upper or lower class in India .... its all about scarsity of resources... too many people fighting for little resource.
RE:This is being practical
by Mera Bharat on Apr 10, 2008 08:46 PM Permalink
Mr. Yadav, As your kids are capable enough to get admission on merit then who is there fighting for reservation. They are few BC people whos children are not capable enough & still they want there Kids to be Doctors & engineers. The pity is these few BC guys controls all the BC peple.So Govt. tries to benefit these guys for Votes. Remember most of the poor dalit even dont know they have got some facilities.They are unawre of those because the people who controls them dont want to reach these facilities to them.. They always know once these guys will be brought up in good shape,they will loose there support.That is all the politics being played
RE:This is being practical
by Raghvendra Nayak on Apr 10, 2008 07:44 PM Permalink
Are Bhai tera akal ghas khane gaya kya, kuch malum nahi aur bol raha hain. Is there any form of goverment before british came so where did reservation come. Yede Mughal were ruling here check history. The caste system were made by some kings at that time depending upon the work. Tum Log Hamesha ki tarah yede hi rahenge.
RE:This is being practical
by imran patel on Apr 10, 2008 07:46 PM Permalink
Nothing is FREE.
Private college fees is high because of government intervention.
Government subsidies makes public schools cheaper and puts a financial burden on private schools.
Lets take the government out. Let private schools compete for Quality and Price. Thats the way free markets work.
Did the cell phone prices go up after private companies came in ?
What is happeneing to the Auto industry ? We have a 1 Lakh car now and there is competition.
The private fees are HIGH because there is NO competition. And the reason there is No competeition is because we have huge government involvement and subsidies.
Education/medical care can never be free. Yes, you can as part of individual charity pay for someone. But to expect that it should be free is insane.
Don't the doctors have families to take care of ?
And where does the government get the money to provide all these "FREE" services. It is through the TAX that it collects. It doe snot make money. Then it uses this TAX money to BUY votes. this is the biggest corruption in our country.
You seem to be a Muslim. And so am I. Our religion advocates individual responsibility and Charity. Not Taxing the rich.
Similarly I as a MUSLIM do not want the government to spend money on HAJJ Subsidies. This is the responsibility of Individual Muslims. It is unislamic to take money from other including (Non-Muslims) by way of tax and give it to Muslims.
Nothing is free. And to expect things to be free is un
RE:This is being practical
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 07:49 PM Permalink
Imran please don't bring your american media inspired theory. Nothing in India is free, don't worry. Problem with you is that you don't think for yourself. You listen to CNN or MSNBC or Some conservative talk show and present it as India's fix. Earlier You propose small government theory..... Prehaps some conservative talk... show's idea.... your theory failed... FED has to come and save Bear Stern... see your current american recession is because of small govt. theory... now FED is doing fire fight and bring regulation.... Please use your own idea's instead of borrowed one.
RE:This is being practical
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 08:04 PM Permalink
I am not parasite. I have job too. Probably better than your's.In the same country in which you are doing job. All I am saying is present your idea. And copy paste is your thing. you are doing it since morning
RE:RE:This is being practical
by Mera Bharat on Apr 10, 2008 08:17 PM Permalink
You are a OBC & doing good job probably better than Imran then why you kids need reservation ? WHY? Are they not capable enough to get admission on there own merit.
RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by siva kumar on Apr 10, 2008 07:43 PM Permalink
You try to understand one thing first. Only 27% reservation is given to OBCs not 100%. There are seats in general quota also. That quota is sufficient for upper caste people, still they are not satisfied, YOu just want to usurp all powerful positions in govt and continue to harass lower caste and Dalit people like your forefathers did. Thatswhy so many uppercaste people making a lot of hue and cry over this justified judgement.
RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 07:46 PM Permalink
Siva don't get worked up about Upper and lower class. Their is no upper or lower class... its only scarsity of resources in india .....few resources ... tooo many people... they will bound to bring conflicts.
RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by rajender motiani on Apr 10, 2008 08:02 PM Permalink
u r stupid.. OBC 27% n other reservations(SC/ST/PH/Defense)22% n then remaining 51% again include OBC, ST,etc.. plus so called upper caste. So deserving, qualified n talented people are almost always able to make there way through this section. they dont need any sort of help to prove themselves.
RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
Imran please don't bring your american media inspired theory. Nothing in India is free, don't worry. Problem with you is that you don't think for yourself. You listen to CNN or MSNBC or Some conservative talk show and present it as India's fix. Earlier You propose small government theory..... Prehaps some conservative talk... show's idea.... your theory failed... FED has to come and save Bear Stern... see your current american recession is because of small govt. theory... now FED is doing fire fight and bring regulation.... Please use your own idea's instead of borrowed one.
RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by OBC Yadav on Apr 10, 2008 07:52 PM Permalink
I don't hate west. I love west. Its only you who pass Media's ideas as your own. All I am saying is use your thought rather borrowed one.
RE:RE:Message for all SANE Indians...
by imran patel on Apr 10, 2008 07:51 PM Permalink
Idiot, The Feds bailing out Bear Stern is NOT a small government ideology.
People like you want others to pay for your bills.
80% population of indaia comes under backward class obc sc st..ONLY 20% ARE general.but 90% wealth belongs to these 20% adn only 10% to backward 80%....and this wealth is not earned by merits its because these 20% enjoyed areservation in india for 5000 years ...when backward class was cosidered worse than animals ...forget about learning..
RE:reservation
by mahabodhi on Apr 10, 2008 07:39 PM Permalink
you are right hitesh!Even these so called 20% control more than 80 % of national wealth they still grumble!It is time poor of this country got his due!A commission to look in to proper DISTRIBUTION OF NATIONAL WEALTH MUST BE CREATED BY THE GOVT. AND WHICH SHOULD SUGGEST HOW WEALTH CAN BE PROPERLY DISTRUIBUTED so that no sleeps hungry and has house over his head!These 20% do not know the living in slum, becuase they think of the 80% as only scum !But times are changing!The changes took place in Western Countries long back!but in India things have yet to start!
RE:RE:reservation
by Madan Mohan Reddy on Apr 10, 2008 08:12 PM Permalink
If you think all the 20% people are wealthy then you are wrong, first get the facts then comment. May be 5% of this 20% are enjoying but not all my friend. Just come to streets and watch how many beggars are there in the so called 20% people.
Only 27% reservation is given to OBCs not 100%. There are seats in general quota also. That quota is sufficient for upper caste people, still they are not satisfied, They just want to usurp all powerful positions in govt and continue to harass lower caste and Dalit people like your forefathers did. Thatswhy so many uppercaste people making a lot of hue and cry over this justified judgement
if we do, and follow the reservation pattern based on caste and religion, i think we are the biggest HYPOCRITE. one suggestion, wipe out the word SECULARISM from the Indian Constitution, before we go ahead and implement the reservations. isn't it stupid to mention caste and religion on any government application form. i dont understand what kind of people have written the constitution, and what kind follow it so blindly
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by on Apr 10, 2008 07:34 PM Permalink
india is secular. will be secular in future too. the current attempt is for inclusive growth. please cooperate.
rediff blocked my id for 60 days for writing reservation supporting messages. this is not done
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by neo on Apr 10, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
and do you have any base of calling yourself secular, or you have just read too many patriotic books. and what makes you think that OBC are considered as some outcast. do you even consider caste while making friends, while travelling in public transport, the waiter in a hotel is of what cast? no, then why consider the cast thing here.
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by on Apr 10, 2008 07:52 PM Permalink
friend, i'll ask in ulta. why can't u help that waiter to come upto ur level. without giving him an opportunity he will remain an waiter. more than 50% is still there for open category. think positive. if there is no inclusive growth, poor will get frustrated with the system and start disturbing its fundamentals.
rediff blocked my id for 60 days for writing reservation supporting messages. this is not done
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by neo on Apr 10, 2008 08:12 PM Permalink
that's exactly what i'm trying to say, give the waiter an equal opportunity. now the real question is... we give him opportunity on the bases of caste? or on the basis of his financial health? what do you say, give reservation to poor or someone of a OBC caste? please, wake up? are you still living in stone age? gone are the days when there was this clear cut equation.. OBC = poor. things change and so the rules also
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by esem on Apr 10, 2008 07:43 PM Permalink
ndia is secular. will be secular in future too by suitably redefining the word secular.
RE:RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by esem on Apr 10, 2008 07:44 PM Permalink
india is secular. will be secular in future too by suitably redefining the word secular
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by siva kumar on Apr 10, 2008 07:38 PM Permalink
Secular country because the country does not support any religion, Reservation is for the people who are underprevileged who were denied equal status in socity because of the caste system that was in force in our socity for thousands of years. Dont get cofused with secularism and reservation for the underprevileged people of the society.
RE:DO WE STILL CALL INDIA A SECULAR COUNTRY?
by neo on Apr 10, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
what kind of support are you talking about, how do you define support? and since when the equation hold true that: if you are OBC = you are underprivileged. this equation might hold true thousands of years back, not now.. or do you still think it does?
Itz boost to OBC people.India is like one family.Every citizen should get their share in this land. Now a days all sectors r dominated by Upper Class & Rich people. Now Indias society like "Jiska lathi Uska bhais" means People with Upper class & Rich people getting more advantage than poor & lower class people. Ex.,India having Billionare & Landlords(>100 acre land holders).Did U agree that they earned by effort & hardwork ?.No,they earned by money & muscle power
Otherside we have people fighting for bread,water & cloth.Thus India is not a Democratic country.But India is filled by Demons like money & muscle people.
When Family devides,Brothers & Sisters get equal authority in Parents property.Thus India is one Family,every citizen should get equal share in all sectors.
Ultimately GOD & SC proved that Justice to poor people.
Next Prime Minister can b frm OBC Family. Justice to comon janatha. Jai AHINDA(OBC)
RE:GOD Justice to Real Indians-Jai AHINDA(OBC)
by Raghvendra Nayak on Apr 10, 2008 07:34 PM Permalink
Do you think all sectors are dominated by upper caste you forgot our third class sector which is dominated by lower caste i.e Goverment sector. Now you have answer why these people are ignored
RE:GOD Justice to Real Indians-Jai AHINDA(OBC)
by Madan Mohan Reddy on Apr 10, 2008 08:20 PM Permalink
Do you think all OBCs are poor, just get the facts, there are so many rich in OBCs as well as there are so many poor people in general category. to uplift the poor let us encourage poor people but not the people that can afford good education to their children.
RE:rediff blocked my id for 60 days for writing reservation supporting messages
by imran patel on Apr 10, 2008 07:31 PM Permalink
Maybe Rediff has a reservation policy and the quota was full. hence they kicked u out.
it is because of this backward thinking of indian government and indians that india could not attain an reservation of permanent membership in UNITED NATIONS.....in china if any stupid person asks for reservation he will be shot dead thats why china got permanent membership and india didnt got
RE:backward thinking
by siva kumar on Apr 10, 2008 07:33 PM Permalink
Do you say permanent membership in UN is given after seeing the reservation policy of country. what a joke man!
RE:backward thinking
by on Apr 10, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
southern states are developing faster due to inclusive growth. SC decision is a welcome step for overall india's inclusive growth. please cooperate
rediff blocked my id for 60 days for writing reservation supporting messages. this is not done
RE:backward thinking
by Raghvendra Nayak on Apr 10, 2008 07:38 PM Permalink
I think kalyan you should have answered that is why China has Developed faster even in goverment and india only in private sector because of upper caste.
