It is a fact, the significance of which cannot be exaggerated, that the measure of the civilization which any nation has attained is the extent to which it has curtailed the power of institutionalized religion. There are a score of great religions in the world, each with scores or hundreds of sects, each with its priestly orders, its complicated creed and ritual, its heavens and hells. Each has its thousands or millions or hundreds of millions of "true believers"; each damns all the others, with more or less heartiness, and each is a mighty fortress of Graft - Sinclaird Upton
Karunanidhi, Sonia Gandhi, TR Balu, Kapi Saibal, et al jumping around to score brownie points form Muslims and Christians. They want to consolidate the dedicated vote bank of minorities. They think that Muslims and Chrsians are foolish enough to vote for them forever for hurting Hindu emotions. It is time for Muslims and Christians to prove that they are not fools! That they don't care whether these sundry politicians believe in Rama or Allah or Jesus. That they vote for those politicians are matured and who understands peoples needs and those bring in good governance. My appeal to all of you, especially Muslims and Christians is that reject these politicians for stirring up unnecessary emotions so that they don%u2019t dare do this again.
RE:SEDUCTION OF MINORITY VOTE BANK
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 03:47 PM Permalink
Hurting hindu emotions never gets votes from minorities. Generally christians are voting the political parties that protect them from hindu-fanatic forecs such as BJP/RSS/VHP,etc. Nowadays ADMK lost its support among minorities because jayalalitha sided with hindutva forces.
KARUNANIDHI TOLD KARNATAKA CINE ACTOR LATE RAJKUMAR WHEN HE MET KARUNA AFTER ESCAPED FROM FOREST HELD AS HOSTAGE BY VEERAPAN ''LORD RAMACHANDRA MURTI STAYED IN FOREST FOR 14 YEARS, WHILE YOU STAYED FOR FEW MONTHS IN FOREST''.THEN RAM SUITED HIS MIND NOW LORD RAM IS A VILLIAN BECOUSE HE CUT HIS SHARE OF MONEY FROM DREDGING OVERSEAS CONTRACTORS IN SETHU SAMUDRAM PROJECT AS MONEY PUT IN OCEAN CAN BE SIPHINED EASILY AND PUT IN OVERSEAS ACCOUNT WHILE MONEY SPEND ON LAND CAN BE NOTICED BY PEOPLE AND OPPOSITION PARTIES.SETHU SAMUDRAM PROJECT WILL BENEFIT ONLY FEW SHIP OWNERS AND TUTICORIN PORT UNDER THE MINISTRY OF CENTRAL GOVERNMENT.STATE GOVT CAN NOT GET REVENUE OUT OF THIS FROM TUTICORIN PORT.WHY KARUNA/T R BALU SHOW TOO MUCH INTEREST IN DESTROYING RAMSETHU BRIDGE.THIS IS DUE TO THE FACT- FOR DREDGING CHANNEL, THEY USE DREDGING CORPORATION A CENTRAL GOVNT OWNED DREDGERS WHILE FOR CUTTING RAM SETHU BRIDGE THEY USE OVERSEAS CONTRACTORS AS DREDGING CORPN DO NOT HAVE EQUIPMENT TO CUT AND REMOVE HARD SURFACED RAMSETHU PALAM. PRIVATE OVERSEAS CONTRACTORS MEAN BIG MONEY FOR MINISTERS. HENCE NOW RAM IS THE VILLIAN FOR SPOILING THE REVENUE FOR KARUNA AND BALU.TAMIL PEOPLE MUST REALISE THAT THIS MONEY COULD BE USED FOR HOSPITALS/WATER/VILLAGE SCHOOLS/INSURANCE FOR HEALTH TO POOR PEOPLE/ROADS/ELECTRICITY. BUT KARUNA CAN NOT MAKE MONEY IN THIS BECOUSE PEOPLE CAN SEE IN THEIR EYES REAL WORK BUT FOR RAM SETHU, THEY CAN SEE ONLY IN MAP AND CAN NOT REALISE THE TRUTH OF THE PROJECT
RE:karuna is a bigot
by anand g on Sep 23, 2007 05:39 PM Permalink
Try to understand onething..Have you studied, both Ramayana and Mahabharatha are two great epics? This project is a profit oriented for indian economy, not for any Tamils or individuals. Why you people merging religion with politics? BJP is nothing doing for the people.? can you tell any good projects what they have done during their tenure?
RE:History..
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 03:30 PM Permalink
Generally history does not believe in scriptures of any religion. History is written based on evidences such as arhaeological evidences, etc. If history is to be written based on scripture then there should be evidences to proved what is described in the scripture. Otherwise there will be no difference between history and religious texts.
RE:History..
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 03:40 PM Permalink
You are wrong. Only known (with the help of artifacts) earliest civilization is harappa civlization which is mentioned in the history. It also talks about ice-age, stone-age which is not pertaining to bible.
RE:RE:History..
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 03:53 PM Permalink
Christian scholars have centred their history around the birth of jesus... here in India we base it on "The Salivahana era"...
Archealogical evidence is something which shows the biological nature of human/animal living in a specific period... Moreover, if any objects were to be found, we can only infer and not conclude from it...
Also, it does not mean, that archealogical evidence should be the premise to establish our history, if found, they can act as evaluators...
Absence of archealogical evidence does not negate anything...
RE:History..
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
Hi Mr. Seshadri, glad to meet you again. The below mentioned quote by Mr. Bertrand Russell answers your question:
My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race. I cannot, however, deny that it has made some contributions to civilization. It helped in early days to fix the calendar, and it caused Egyptian priests to chronicle eclipses with such care that in time they became able to predict them. These two services I am prepared to acknowledge, but I do not know of any others -
RE:History..
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
Archaelogical evidences give some proof about what was there and what happened. Off course it does not negate anything but to include something in the history some proofs are required. But religious texts are only based on beliefs and cannot be considered as solid proofs. As many historians are christians you are thinking that they include all the biblical events in history. You are absolutely wrong.
RE:History..
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 03:49 PM Permalink
You meant to say school book history is about animals. I could not understand what you are talking about.
RE:History..
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 03:48 PM Permalink
To be thoroughly religious, one must, I believe, be sorely disappointed. One's faith in God increases as one's faith in the world decreases. The happier the man, the farther he is from God - George Jean Nathan
RE:RE:History..
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 03:55 PM Permalink
Welcome JGN, the quote refers to the philosophical bent of mind, based on what one's mind perveives as GOD
RE:History..
by Ganesh on Sep 21, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
Dear Cape Comorin, are you aware of the fact that history can be twisted. Max Mueller was paid 4pounds per page to create the history of Aryan Invasion in India for the sole purpose of dividing north and south. This has been genetically proved that the north indians and south indians have the same genetical properties which determine we determine to the same race. There was no aryan race period. Google Aryan and you will find proof. Pls see the site francoisgautier.com where he has written articles about India and how outsiders have manipulated Indians and are still doing it. So History can also be created to suit those in power as Britain was the mainstay of History in English and they did manipulate Indian History. There is a lot of dispute about acccepted faiths of Christianity - about reality of Christ, his resurrection, correct date of christmas etc , there are also debates on the so called visit of spirit to Mohammed (Gabriel- an english name - why not Hanif or any muslim as Allah is supposedly muslim) so a lot of historically accepted happenings are being questioned and sometimes by clever poturing twisted. In spite of real time videos there are theories about the twin tower collapse by manipulative theorists with vested interests. So pls do not accept historical statement also. As over a period of time even history has been distorted
(c) ...brought to the fore-front, the most fanciful and groundless theory of the migration of the Aryans into India, according to which the very existence of Manu, the first Crowned King of Bharat, Egypt etc., Ikshvaku, Manu's glorious son; Bharata Chakravarti, the glorious son of Shakuntala; Bhagiratha, who changed the course of the Ganga; Kuru, after whom the sacred sacrificial land is called Kurukshetra; Rama, the son of Dasharatha and a number of other kings is being totally denied.
(d) ...was responsible for the altogether wrong translations of Vaidika (Vedic) works, and misrepresentation of the Vaidika culture.
(e) ...did not allow the acceptance of Sanskrit, as being the mother language of at least the Indo-European group; as at first very ably propounded by Franz Bopp, and often mentioned by ancient Indian authors.
We are not sorry for all this, for, nothing better could be expected from such biased foreign pioneers of Sanskrit studies.
With these brief remarks we earnestly pray that the light of truth may dawn on every thinking and learned man of Bharatavarsha, so that in these days of political and individual freedom he may shake ff the yoke of intellectual slavery of the West." (Pt. Bhagavan Dutt. A Review Of "Beef In Ancient India", pages 17-38.)
"In short, the foregoing pages make it clear that it was this Christian and Judaic prejudice which:
(a) ...did not allow the real dates of ancient Bharatiya history to be accepted by the occidental scholars, who were always reluctant to give the Vedas a higher antiquity than the earliest portion of the Old Testament and place them beyond 2500 B.C.55
Even the school of Paul Deussen, A.W. Ryder and H. Zimmer, which followed Schopenhauer in the appreciation of ancient Indian intellect, but which did not work directly on chronology, could not throw off the burden of these extremely unscientific, fictitious dates.
(b) ...gave rise to the two interrelated diseases of Western Indologists; firstly the disease of myth, mythical and mythology, according to which Brahma, Indra, Vishnu, Parvat, Narada, Kashyapa, Pururavas, Vasishta and a host of other ancient sages have been declared as mythical. Nobody ever tried to understand their true historical character apprehending that the dates of Bharatiya history would go to very ancient periods; and secondly, as a corollary to the above, the disease of 'attribution' and 'ascription', under which the works of these and other sages have been declared to be written by some very late anonymous persons who are said to have ascribed or attributed them to those 'mythical' sages"
RE:A gathering of strength...
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 02:07 PM Permalink
The project site is in the sea. So you are going to collect the people to dive into the sea to protect what you call ram-setu. Nice going! Beware tsunami is imminent.
RE:A gathering of strength...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:28 PM Permalink
My post says "in/near"; from this I can see what kind of interpretation you intellect derives...!
Is this the attitude which has helped you in your understanding of the vedas/sutras/upanishads???
RE:A gathering of strength...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
Also, fyi, the effects of tsunami were not felt in the holy area... it is a fact!
So much for your wayward comments! Everyone can see the truth in such countering mentality...
RE:RE:Rama's father by skumar on Sep 20, 2007 12:54 PM Miracle and science
If a miracle can scientifically be proved then everybody will accept the fact. But, if it is based on someone'a imigination then it will be difficult for rational people to accept it. 'Ramayana' can be at the best considered as a good science fiction combined with geographical knowledge and social condtion of that era. But if we have believe in Rama's exsitance then we have to believe in so many things which is not possible scientifically. Just try to calculate how much force is required to lift 'Gandhamadan' mountain and then jump with it to cover a large distance. Being educated in science does't mean that someone is rational in thinking, otherwise we would not have astrology in TV,internet and print media.
RE:miracle and science
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 01:20 PM Permalink
skumar, there are so many phenomenon and happennings that have and continue to perplex and confound the "atheist scientist". There are many documentaries to show things beyond logic happens... which are purely due to the force of the mind... Eating and drinking is an animal trait, thinking and querying is human, to realise and progress spiritually (by experiencing) is yogic...
RE:miracle and science
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 02:04 PM Permalink
I know what you meant by 'intellect': believing in anything in the name of religion. Read about arya samaj and brahma samaj you will get some wisdom.
RE:RE:miracle and science
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:16 PM Permalink
What are the vedic books you have read to comment on it?
More importantly, how have you read it ie., as a genuine seeker of truth or as one finding ways to defy it?
The history and translations you see are all biased; to obtain an unbiased view, please read them yourselves in its original script, and then relate.
The history you read, the interpretations that you infer are all from western educated/atheist/pseudo secular minds...
Our Vedas and Shastras have an abundance of science and knowledge; we have failed to uncover them by bowing down under the british.... we have become debauched slaves thus ignoring our glorious science... and what we have now is but a bickering state of affairs... each with his own perception of history...
RE:RE:miracle and science
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 02:41 PM Permalink
I referred arya samaj and brahma samaj because they have refined hinduism to some extent especially idol worship.
RE:RE:miracle and science
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:49 PM Permalink
The arya samaj and brahma samaj refer to a particular custom and not the whole gambit of the vedic culture... and hence cannot be accepted as a clause for discussion in this topic...
RE:RE:miracle and science
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:20 PM Permalink
Also, if you get an answer to your questions you should make a genuine attempt to understand the rationale behind it...
It is not some childish fantasy that all the educated masses, I repeat - the educated masses who have contributed to our Nation's progress, believe... to be so easily given up...
RE:miracle and science
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
You are only talking something is there in vedas. But you never revealed what is there? Why should I read vedas is original form which is in sanskrit? Why you could not give a reliable source where I can read vedas? I am interested in learning vedas. I asked my hindu friends about it. Nobody knows anything about vedas except their names.
RE:miracle and science
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 02:47 PM Permalink
The reason I ask you to read it in Sanskrit is that interpretations are biased. Just as you learn english, learn Sanskrit, learn it to improve your understanding of the great books.
I have a non-brahmin friend who knows better sanskrit than me... He is also widely read... The gist of these vedas must be experienced, they are DEFINETELY NOT something which can be a textbook copy...
RE:miracle and science
by gundapantula ravi shankar on Sep 20, 2007 07:46 PM Permalink
skumar science cannot prove everything ;like can you prove the presence of 'AIR';its only by feel you say air is around but can you prove it by showing if i have to believe.If not why the exception.what engines dothe birds have to fly like aeroplanes ?what is the force of displacement involved to fly,like a mechanical engine.This same force ,we refer to as the power of God.And Lord Rama is a divine force personified.If you limit your sphere of understanding and try to counter-argue then there is no answer.And particularly ,with the ancient scriptures ,you dont find the present systems of questioning,reasoning,proof and inference .As all the scriptures were stored in the form of'taalla patras',which doesnt remain for centuries ,many important and reasons for all your problems which have been mentioned are lost in due course of times.And that too very little scriptures on HINDU culture are available. And for your small mind skumar, I think such a great 'EPIC' looks like a science fiction which really hurts me as you couldnt differentiate between a science fiction and a respectable book with so many human values ,etiquettes and morals which everybody should imbibe for a rational way of life.
RE:miracle and science
by Cape Comorin on Sep 20, 2007 01:03 PM Permalink
When people are addicted to myths and superstitions you cannot expect their commonsense works.
Won't those perverts ruling India and the DMK goondas think anything beyond today or about their own petty and selfish interests?This Setu which is revered by millions of Hindus,which is mentioned in detail in our Ramayana,which has been preserved for many millinnea,which holds ecological significance is stubbornly poised to be destroyed.The future Indians,say 500 years from now, will hold INC,Sonia,Manmohan,DMK,Velu,Karunanidhi(a Hindu- hater with a Sanskrit name.He could have changed his name to Dravidamannan)responsible for destroying their heritage for small gains.They will be termed as the demons and the Italian demoness who controlled India in the early years of 21st century.Why this stubborness to destroy something?
