India's stand on reprocessing is right. US should trust India. Nuclear energy is clean if safety precautions are taken. India should build atleast 100 more power stations in 5-8 years. More use of electricity shall reduce burning fossil fuels. Solar and Wind energy are peanuts for the energy demand of India.
RE:India's Stand is Right
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 12:40 PM Permalink
This is where I think US and India both suspect each other, a legacy of cold war when India was practicing hindi-chini bhai bhai bullcrap and non-alignment virus.
India NEEDS to reprocess spent fuel as it is the ONLY method to derive Plutonium to manufacture nuclear weapons. India needs more nukes for sure.
US made concessions to it's firm allies like Japan, European Union, and Switzerland in this respect; ie allowed them to reprocess spent fuel.
Hopefully an agreement is reached and US understands India's concerns just like India trusts US more. It takes two to tango !
Do not underestimate wind, solar, and hydroeletric power systems. There are entire towns in Germany and the US (Nevada) powered by solar power stations. It can play a huge role in plugging gaps in energy supplies.
RE:RE:India's Stand is Right
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 06:52 PM Permalink
The long term cost of Wind & Solar are very high Also, wind & solar are like seasonal business like Indian-agri market. We cannot rely them for power generation. Good for some remote homes or some orphaned villages!!! As ashok said, it is peanut compared to our requirement. Nuclear is the one which is not seasonal. Using our energy requirement, telling greenish etc. no one should try to compromise our national security!!!
I know it is not about nuclear reactor, but something related to it. I believe india should start exploiting the renewable endless heap of energy, solar, wind and Waves energy. Scotland gets 21% of its energy supply from solar and wave energy, why can not india? we have more abundance of solar, wave and even wind? This form of enery is not only very clean but also makes country more independent. I think graduates of india [5% of all eh?] should try and make a difference.
RE:Alternatives,
by vijaisarathi selvaraj on Mar 19, 2007 11:22 AM Permalink
Mr.Sumit, The idea of using renewable sources of energy is good, but U need to look requirements of India and that of a small country like Scotland. Numbers can't be taken just like that as comparisons. For example a small country like Scotland say needs 100MW(just example), its easy to produce 21MW (if ur 21% of energy from renewable is to be considered) but for a growing & energy hubgry country like India which I guess requires 100,000MW by 2025 (if according to some of articles that I had read before are right) producing ur number of 21% which will account to 21,000MW is not at all a easy task, say even 10,000MW is a not a very easy task. Do U know how much of vacant land (in a country like India,where free land scarce to find)is even required free of wind barriers are needed to set up giant windmills which will just produce around a few hundreds of KW power. Remeber U cant set up wind mills in any barren land, U need to have contsant wind flow which is hard to find in Monsoon dependent country like India. Same with solar,remeber that the cost of solar cells to produce to tap in solar energy is expensive and it too prodcues very less energy. Nuclear energy is the only viable energy source and all others need to be concentrated for additional energy but not as main source. Dont forget that we already were utilized much in the 1st Industrial revolution without us getting any benefit out of it, dont leave ur 2nd chance to make a come back. Let us do the research but lets use the available nuclear power for us to 1st grow and create wealth whgich then can be used to do research in finding more better alternatives, dont forget that the current super powers grew on Nuclear energy and only now looking at other alternatives. We have a lot to catch up and time is not a renewable too and letsd not forget it.
RE:RE:Alternatives,
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 11:58 AM Permalink
Status of Wind power
#1 Germany (20,621 MW) #2 Spain (11,615 MW) #3 USA (11,603 MW) #4 India (6,270 MW) 35 Denmark (3,136 MW)
Wind energy is HAPPENING in India as you can see we are amongst leading nation. We have huge land and open spaces in hinterland, Why not use this absolutey clean format of energy ?
Status of Solar power
India receives solar energy equivalent to over 5000 trillion kWh/year (world's highest level). Now it is for our smartness to use it or let our edge over plentyful sun wither away.
Solar energy can be very convenienty used to -
a. domestic lighting b. street lighting c. village electrification d. water pumping e. desalination of salty water f. powering of remote telecommunication repeater stations and g. railway signals.
This is save the load on the main grid as well as these will work on their own thanks to solar power charged battery.
It's here and happening. In your day to day life you can see solar panels on top of flats and houses giving heated water to residents and also street lights powered by that. Tata Solar is one such company manufacturing solar systems.
USA, Europe, and Japan as leaders in use of solar technologies. Interestingly all these countries have much LESS sunshine than India.
WAVE ENERGY
With India having 7.600 KM of coastline with "waves" it surely deserves a serious attention. Developed countries in Europe and America are already doing this.
And of course Nuclear Power Plants - Clean and massive source of energy.
This can potentially complete the energy mix. We dont have to go through what Europe and USA went through in 19th and 20th centuries using coal energy. Instead we can leapfrog that developmental stage straight to CLEAN TECHNOLOGIES.
Normally snow is on December around christmas. Thats why we call White Christmas!!! Started from few years back the Snow started coming january, feburary, march, not it is touching april also!!! All that is because of Global Warming, I think. Un predictable weather, acid rain etc. will be the by-product when burning fossile fuel!!! So, it is everybody's interest, not only India's interest to have clean Nuclear Energy!!! West should have responsible attitude with India when dealing w/ nuclear in the context of the security of India too!!!
Somewhere in the thread I read about how cheap the labour in China is, which Americans are using to expand their companies using the cheap labour. Anything you find in the market these days is Made in China..but see the other side of the coin. China with its totalitarian regime is using its population to be exploited by big companies, true max FDI has gone there and China has used its manpower to progress on it, and earn money. But see the workers there working day and night and even the companies too flooding the market with made in china goods, and earning a very low profit in return of so much work. Now compare it with India......India provides IT skilled workers to the world, its poppulation who were getting peanut salary before is getting paid in abundance, we are getting richer providing our Mind Power and service industry, and very soon we will leave china behind. China's population struggle hard to earn their peanuts and indian workers work in healthy and nice environment and sell their brain power at exhorbitant rates...Now who is better? No wonder there india will soon have more billionaires than all of China/Japan and S.Korea combined together.
RE:China Vs india
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 08:31 AM Permalink
A country with 600 million youth population and 22 million babies born every year CANNOT RELY ON IT JOBS ALONE.
To see the current prospective -
Out of every 100 kids -
70% will drop out before standard 8th. 20% will complete standard 10th. 10% will complete standard 12th. 5% will complete undergraduate degree. 0.2% will become engineers.
RE:RE:China Vs india
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 08:38 AM Permalink
Kutta, IT industry is not the only power base on which India will stand, its the manufacturing and the Service industry which is the big thing today. Not all can become Engineers and IT experts, all are required and in this shift, everybody is reaping the benefits...even a taxi driver is earning more money than he could have imagined before.Those who drop out before 8th standard, will become labour to work in the industries being set up. those graduating will go into different streams. Have you imagined so many dfifferent options to choose from 10 years back?
RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 08:41 AM Permalink
That's not my point. You pointed out that India will do IT and China cheap manufacturing.
I rebutted that and said India needs All types of jobs so that all types of people are employed.
WHERE AM I DISPUTING THAT INDIA IS not PROGRESSING ?
But I am intelligent enought to see "real" India that you speak of as I travel around the entire country as part of jobs and also offering you stats to get my points.
Should I live in soft of booze frenzy generated by media hypes like an idiot's paradise?
No my friend you should do some independent analysis and go BEYOND NEWS that media gives you and then give your prospective.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 09:27 AM Permalink
You two guys diverting far away from Nuclear & started analysing total India!!! You guys praising India is also not good, also blaming also not good!!! We need electricity that is the main concern of this topic. How do we get w/o affecting Indian security is the main point of this topic!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by Raj on Mar 22, 2007 08:46 AM Permalink
When you speak of, you donot see the reality, I see the dhobi in my building when I was living inn Delhi hiring workers from Bihar to press the clothes and he would press about 6 to 700 clothes a day at 1.50 Rs a cloth, nowe how much is that. land has become costly, thast means the landowners and poor villagers are now selling and reselling their lands in millions of Rupees to builders...and investing that money in starting businesses.A paan wala makes roughly 10k p.month, an auto rickshaw wala makes 15-20k p.m..dont u see India progressing, ask any manual rickshaw to leave you at a small distance for 5 rupees, see his reply.Maybe you have been left behind...
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 08:47 AM Permalink
See, people themselves have to get involved, the Government cannot ddistribute money among its ppl. The awareness to become a part of new india should be there. Have you ever seen the land prices going up like this before all over India. I know that the person who do laundry in a building is earning a fat income, the jobs are increasing and thats cos there is going to be an overall development. We cannot change india in 2 - 3 years , it will take some time before the development is all over, the Government is concentrating on infrastructure first.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 09:17 AM Permalink
You assume that whole of India is booming.
Then why are people pouring into Delhi at a rate of 1500 PER DAY IN DELHI ALONE !
Simple because these people are not getting suitable employment in their home states. People are migrating from far off places like Bihar, UP, Haryana, Himachal, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, and even distant Kerala and TN.
That should make your mind ponder.
Delhi's population is increasing by 5 lakhs per year and Mumbai is even worse off with migrants pouring from all over. No wonder 50% of Mumbai's population is in slums.
It means something is wrong there in the countryside whose youth are migrating like in droves to metros.
That explains my statistics that IT provides very very little percentage of jobs and only 0.2% of India can be employed in IT. And only 5% have Bachelor degree to be employed in call centres.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:China Vs india
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 08:55 AM Permalink
Where do you live where laundry men make Rs 50K a month or press wala makes Rs 30K ?
I live in National Capital and I have yet to hear a presswala making Rs 30K. Neighter a laundry man or a dhobi making Rs 35K.
These people have 3-6 kids !
If I tell you of poverty in small towns in Rajansthan and rural India, you would be shocked. In these places there are no Rs 50K IT jobs either.
And where did I say that these problems will be solved in 2-3 years ?
Land prices going up I hope you mean Rs 65 lakhs 2 bedroom apartments in delhi ? How does that help average Indian who is NOT an IT professional ? Most likely average man will end up in a slum somewhere. Delhi alone has 50% of people living in unauthorized colonies.
And this is capital of India.
My honest suggestion is not to get lost in the hype and glitter of shining glass towers in IT parks but to see reality and then MAKE IMPROVEMENT.
RE:China Vs india
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 08:22 AM Permalink
Not all are very good!!! We also have problems too!!! There were a job category people called Electronic Service Center, they closed their shops totally in India because of cheap imports
Some electronics technicians who repair TV, VCR, DVD now closed their shops & doing fruit shops & juice stalls in India!!!
RE:RE:China Vs india
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 08:32 AM Permalink
hello, are you talking about India or some other country...I cant make head or tail of what you are posting here. Service industry doesnt mean TV/DVD repair technicians..it shows your poor knowledge base. I dont find any Indian graduate getting a starting salary of less than 15 - 20000 Rs. How do you think Indians have got so much purchasing power? Why is the world waking up to the giant that is India. Get your facts straight hello, cos either you are not an Indian thats why you dont know the real india these days or you are far frm real India. Dont talk about the infrastructure, shabby airports....cos very soon you will find the change all over.
RE:Power shortage is horrible in India brother!!!
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 08:42 AM Permalink
Power shortage is there as India isnt able to produce as much energy as it needs. It is a very big country. But its population also has some duty, the government should make power theft a zero tolerance and introduce very strict punishment if individuals or companies are found involved in this. Make all power lines underground and make the power loss during transmission to zero level.
RE:RE:Power shortage is horrible in India brother!!!
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 08:49 AM Permalink
Unless we generate more power, either greenishly or redishly, we cannot increase the total generated power even we use SUPER CONDUCTIVITY wire!!! World prefer us to use greenish better than fossil fuel for their purpose & world's betterment!!!
Did you guys noticed that Pakistan is the only country in the world which has a 100 % success in all their Missile Tests and nuclear tests. Its the only country which confidently flew its cruise missile (under test) over its cities, and was successful. No other country in the world has a 100 % record as Pakistan has. Any thoughts on congratulating the Paki scientists ?
RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 07:46 AM Permalink
IT was MEEEE !
BTW our nuclear defense shield should and is based on China's threat not Pakistan, and rightly so. We have no choice but match the, cuz China gets too strong viz India (in reality or chinese perception), it will gulp down Arunanchal Pradesh and Assam as well as small parking lot size countries like Vietnam, Japan, Burma etc.
RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 07:58 AM Permalink
I am not telling these for enemity or anything!!! Friendship is what we need!!! But for telling about friendship, we were strong enough in the past, now also strong too. But the strength is not enough, we need have more strength in the future as we are growing economically!!!
RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 07:54 AM Permalink
Pakistan general crying to his counterpart who is operation in war. Yellow (China) is in east. Blue/white (US) is in west. Go ahead. But some 100000 ( 1 lakh) PAKI solders surrendered to India!!! Don't know about the history, ask your grandma about India!!!
RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 07:50 AM Permalink
Our number is less we need to produce more!!! But our main thinking now is to increase the power (electricity)!!! Other stupidity talks etc, I don't have to answer!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 07:57 AM Permalink
Look China doesnt need to do any silly thing like that, China has learnt from japan, to spend as less as possible on conflicts and grow economically stronger as world respects two things...POWER and MONEY. China now has both. India is trying to ape China now. The energy we need is to not to let this tempo down, we have few reserves of oil and large deposits of coal, which is not clean. We need to do something to conserve oikl as much as possible.Maybe tap our solar energy which is available in abundance..we need to do more research in this field.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by Raj on Mar 22, 2007 08:50 AM Permalink
I see a reply here comparing indian oil production with the rest of the world. Do india have enough oil of its own? No..but India has Gold of a company called Reliance and Essar. Do you know that we have Oil refineries and we do our own refining of oil to about 80 %. we are trying to do what USA does, they buy crude oil from Iran and than sell it refined oil at almost double the price. Thinking lowly of yourself and not using brains is not Indian. Be proud that you are an Indian, only than peoplewill respect you. I live out of india and I get respect cos I am an indian.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Pakistan Vs World
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 08:08 AM Permalink
The more oil means more emission!!! Solar filed will need huge investment in miles to generate substantial electricity!!! Nuclear is the best option to have a clean electricity!!! As West want to cut down the carbon emissions as much as possible, I hope west also have responsible attitude towards India's security too whenforming policies about nuclear deal or other NPT or what ever it may be!!!
India has world's 2nd largest population and yet has nuclear power generation capacity of paltry 8 terrawatts against 21 terrawatts for Finland (a country having less than population of Delhi !)
Thoughts to ponder - Out of countries in top 18 ahead of India 4 have population less than Delhi forget comparison with nuclear power giants like USA, France, Japan etc.
Some interesting stats %u2013
Isnt it time for us to move ahead on the list. after all we have population multiple times of the above countries.
Purely relying on indigenous reactors alone will take decades to take us to USA or france's level. Why not exploit international markets and get there faster ?
India's population rises the size of one Australia every year. It is like 44 towns the size of Noida built every year.
Nuclear power share of total electicity generation -
India with huge population surely can do better and increase it's share of nuclear power generation as percentage of overall electricity generation. Interesting to see that no country relies 100% on nuclear power alone but it is a mix of thermal, nuclear, hydroelectric, and solar/wind power.
If Indians have to enjoy power 24/7, they have to invest heavily in nuclear power as our population is very high already and also rising fast.
ONLY WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN. WE HAVE TO FORGET SELF DESTRUCTIVE POLICIES OF THE PAST AND PARANOIA OF SUSPICION OF WEST.
ONCE WE BREAK NUCLEAR SUPPLIER GROUP STALMATE, WE ARE FREE TO BUY OFF THE SHELF REACTORS AND URANIUM FROM 45 COUNTRIES THAT ARE MEMBER OF NSG.
RE:SOME STATS AND FOOD FOR THOUGHT .................
by hello on Mar 19, 2007 07:44 AM Permalink
If we compare the total power generation, we are at very low levels. Include thermo nuclear, thermal, hydro, solar, wind etc. We need to increase our power genration capability GREENISHly!!! That is only possible with the help of Nuclear co-operation!!!
RE:SOME STATS AND FOOD FOR THOUGHT .................
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 09:57 AM Permalink
excellent peice of information..Kutta. Yaar change your name, though we agree on several topics, I feel like I'm swearing your name.
Let us be clear on this.Since 1974, India exploded the first nuclear device, our country had been facing nuclear aperthied. At the same time our scientists and Gvernment did not buckle and pressure and delivered the goods. Nowhere in the world the technology of FBRs is developed as ours (except perhaps France but not in carbide fuels). Unfortunately because of so many sef-centered pliticians who want to be always in the news created many obstacles in exploring our uranium resources.
RE:interesting discussion..!
by Confused on Mar 19, 2007 07:07 AM Permalink
I too feel that they are have good knowledge both neo and kutta that becomes new kutta? well ...carryon it is nice to read your comments they are informative... or kutta is the government employee? hence sarkari kutta?>> ....
How many of you know that Indian bureaucrats smuggle Uranium enriched ores from Jaduguda mines to Pakistan?
The first such truck was caught in Bihar when some investigation for apheem (poppy) was going on. A truck was being searched at Orissa border for apheem and Uranium going to Pakistan was found.
Your favorite bureaucrat IASs are basically selling national security to Pakistan.
Good luck to all of you living in India. I am somewhat out of the Indian system of corruption.
RE:OK a strange fact
by animesh kumar on Mar 19, 2007 06:49 AM Permalink
This news appeared in Hindustan or Aaj (hindi daily) in Patna, around the time when BJP did the Nuclear Bomb testing.
I was shocked that even a basic rule --- don't co operate with the enemy --- was being forgotten by corrupt bureaucrats of India.
