Even Lalu Prasad Yadav's RJD, which has been close to the CPM, criticized the biggest Left party, and is sending a team of it's MPs to the battleground.
"The government should not buy land for private companies, instead private companies should buy land directly from farmers," said Lalu Prasad Yadav, Railway Minister.
RE:Even Lalu Prasad understands this, NOT Buddha
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 10:35 PM Permalink
Atleast you posted some useful statement of Laluji!!! Very good statement by laluji, farmer knows the true difficulty of farmers!!!
RE:Mostly killed were Women, Dalit, Minorities
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 10:47 PM Permalink
What a shame!!! It is wrong to talk about development, in dead house or funeral home!!! I understood lately!!! Condolences!!!
We learn the problems with our system by so many hard lessons but instead of learning from the mistake and making sure it doesn't happen again, we will bury these in our memory only to bring it back like "De Ja Vu" during another incident.
What happened in Kalinganagar in Orissa, when innocent tribals fighting for their land against unjust land-grab for criminal corporatists, [ding! ding!! again the Culprit is our infamous TATA!!!], should have been fresh in our mind. Indiscriminate firing by the police killed 12 poor villagers. We all did hue & cry but for how long? 2 days? Do we even know what happened to the judicial inquiry of that?
Had we taken a BIG stand on the issue then and see to it the criminals behind that atrocities are punished, 20 innocent lives in Nandigram could have been saved. At least now, are we going to do something or just cry?
There are more of these Nandigram [aka neo-Jallianwalabagh] style massacres lurking in future, until people own up the responsibilities and fight it out.
If there is similar event happens again, we have failed as people and should complain no more of anyone but ourselves.
RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 09:33 PM Permalink
1) How discussions are being disturbed ? 2) Could you find time to answe my seven small questions POINT by point or you want to say you dont care or just pose you are not seeing them :D
Hello, You are just a sad joke! As irritating as you can get. Your replies are insane. If you have different perspective, thats fine but you don't have to post insane replies to every other post.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
Don't worry about me. Tell your point, I can validate, if it right appreciate me or scold me. If it is wrong just scold me. You have rights!!!
RE:RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:38 PM Permalink
I feel sorry for you too. You are also one among them!!! See how the guy Bhaskar Chattopadhyay changed his plate today!!!
Yes, CPIM in West Bengal is oppressive. TATA has done somecrime as well. Agreed.
But my friend, THERE ARE MANY STATES IN INDIA WHERE SEZs ARE BEING SET UP WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM.
Look at Modi's GUJARAT.
Now, why CPIM can't do it in WB WITHOUT FORCE IS WELL KNOWN. But its their problem. Just because CPIM is in problem doesn't mean we have to stop SEZ/Industrialization.
I am Never against Industrialization but not by crushing the poor people. I don want one sector to replace another.
The same kind of horror happens in many places but none have went as far as Buddhadeb did. However, people are thrown out of their homes like trash. People of Bengal & Kerala are politically active and are capable of putting up a fight but many others have no choice but to leave.
Only solution is to make people's forum stronger. Decentralize power from one man[in this case screwed up man like Buddha] and make it participative democracy.
I am neither close to Naxal or Maoism. I don't subscribe to their mindless killings.
I only advocate for people's movement which will stand up against any kinda atrocities.
Subharoy clearly put down his 7 points which these people pro-land-grabbers ran away from.
Bhaskar, People like you, Subharoy, Chaitanya and all progressive thinkers should lead the fight against these massacres by lawful means.
RE:RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:52 PM Permalink
I always aganist killing people in any case!!! My first sympathy goes to people!!! Whether it may be due to terrorism, naxalism, or communism.
I came to this forum after 7/11 only after reading about the suffering of people!!!
RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 09:39 PM Permalink
1) No one is really opposing industrialization. No one, not even the oppostion.
2) Why not utilise the unutlised lands like lakhs of acres of closed factories , non-multicrop fields ? If not infrastructure is there ( and if 30 years have not been enough ) START TO build them now 3) Modis Gujrat is NOT any gold standard - do any one guarantess it will be success even after 30 or 50 years ? 4) Just becoz some one does something does not mean one has to do that ! 5) SEZ can be in proper areas ? but then again why ? See the amount of money changing hands - if you live and if this board stays come to it after just 10 or 15 years ! 6) We have natural resources - So why agriculture itself cannot be industry and sez ???agriculture
RE:RE:RE:De Ja Vu?
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:42 PM Permalink
Now Bhaskar Chatto... is better than you, I think. You are not giving credit to Gujarat where industry were successfully implemented.
MurkhAnand Now listen to real facts: 1. America in the year 2005-06 provided a subsidy of 372.14 billion dollars plus farmers were free to selll their produce in open market and the prices were determined by market. In india Farmers recieved 700million dollars in subsidy and the government fixed the rates of their produce. The prices of food grains are fixed low so that the poor people can afford to eat but this takes away the hard earned wealth from farmers. In reality government saves huge amount of money by keeping the prices of food down and hence reduce the subsidy to poor people for food. 2. In america every cow recieves a subsidy of 4.2 dollars every day where as their is no such thing in India. 3. Logically a farmer produces food similar to a factory owner producing goods. So a farmer must have freedom to sell his produce whereever he wants and at what ever price he wants (or determined by market) but government doesnot allow farmers to export their produce so as to keep the supply in India artificially high and the prices down. 3. Last year govt thought of opening the agriculture market and in 6 months the food prices almost doubled (What do you think is driving inflation when oil prices have come down) Government immidiately backtracked. 4. You can get a car loan for 0% but if a farmer wants to buy a tractor he has to pay 14% interest. IS IT NOT EXPLOITATION? 5. The land is private property of Farmer hence it is his wish whether he wants to sell it or not. Govt cannot force it according to law but what is government doing in Nandigram and singur? 6. Land has not only been considered as property it is culturally been considered equivalent to mother. So if someone doesnot want to sell his land even at higher price MUST NOT BE FORCED. Or will you sell your MOTHER IF I PAY YOU 1 MILLION DOLLARS? So clear your knowledge before claiming that your facts are correct. Jaihind
RE:OPEN LETTER TO ANAND KRRISH
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:17 PM Permalink
But is it true or false, 1% of agri population produces 99% of people needs in america.
RE:RE:OPEN LETTER TO ANAND KRRISH
by Mahesh Kulharia on Mar 15, 2007 09:22 PM Permalink
It is not only 1% population but also huge amount of resources. Population alone doesnot produce. Machines (and that means investments) in addition to water and lands (which they have more than India) are much more important. On one side you have 1000 well equipped soldiers and on the other hand you have 100000 hungry, danda weilding, sick men Tell me who will win?
RE:RE:RE:RE:OPEN LETTER TO ANAND KRRISH
by Mahesh Kulharia on Mar 15, 2007 09:46 PM Permalink
1. Controlling all resources by killing all locals. 2. having very less population and hence huge resource abundance. 3. Following correct foreign policies that eliminated all external threats so that industrial development was safe and secure. 4. Controlling the world oil and thus driving their own progress. 5. Inviting and capturing worldclass brain from all over the world and paying them peanuts for slave labour in cutting edge technologies.
Now India is not america and cannot become one for the following reasons (infact we shall become better that them):
1. India unlike america had faced extreme form of exploitative colonialism for 200years. 2. We have faced 1 war in every 15years (on an average) on Indian soil. 3. Government policies are destructive for productive in terms reservations and minority appeasement. 4. We have innumerable centrifugal insurgencies which America doenot face. 5. Indian brain regularly leaves India.
What is the way out?
1. Ofcourse development of industries and (their is no opposition for that). BUT THE QUESTION IS WHERE AND HOW: India has vast tracts of nonarable land which is not suitable for agriculture and should be utilised for industries. Infact in Kolkata itself land occupied by numberous mills (which were closed by the union activity of communists) should be the first regions to be used. 2. Reforms in agriculture: Reduce the interest rates, open market, let the farmer put a price for his produce on cost plus profit basis, then eliminate AGRICULTURE SUBSIDY. 3. Spread education and spend more on roads, Health sector. All governments have neglected health. 4. Reorganise POLICE and invest more in equipping them to make life and property of common citizen safe. 5. Reform POLITICS by eliminating chances of SHAHBUDDIN like people (law breakers) becoming law makers. 6. Remove reservation on caste basis and PROVIDE RESERVATION ONLY FOR POORS.
And when this happens you will see that India will become much better than America. We do not need to control somebody's oil like america to become rich. Jaihind
RE:RE:RE:OPEN LETTER TO ANAND KRRISH
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 09:29 PM Permalink
India has the largest arable land in the world. Don't count the desert landscapes of USA or China as arable land of India.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:OPEN LETTER TO ANAND KRRISH
by Mahesh Kulharia on Mar 15, 2007 09:49 PM Permalink
My dear chaitanya: Green zone doesnot mean that the land is being used for agriculture. It means that the area recieves specific amount of natural water. MOre over Land and people cannot do anything UNLESS YOU INVEST MONEY. and that means REDUCING THE INTEREST RATE FOR FARMING LOANS. Please refrain from making useless arguments.
RE:BENGALIS WILL BE BETTER OF SENDING THEIR GIRLS TO MUMBAI
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:10 PM Permalink
Understand your frustration that some of your valid point below were ignored!!! For that please don't spread negative propaganda!!!
India is food surplus. It has in storage 5 years requirement - also around 50% of food stuff is lost due to lack of propoer storage system like cold chains, transport logistics, etc. These are very simple problems that can be easily tackled completely. That means that we can have as much as 10 years food requirement in storage.
That apart America alone priduces 10 times teh food as India (with just 1 crore farmers - most of them part time week end farmers. India has 70 crore full time farmers.
We really don't need too much of agricultural land or farmers.
RE:Do we really need farmers and agricultural land?
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 09:12 PM Permalink
India imported hweat from Australia in the previous year. There was shortage. Also, when the Reliance and others start exporting the produce of farmers(through their initiatives that are into retail) because they get more income that way than selling it in India, then India will see food shortage. It's the same reason why there were famines in Bengal in 1930's which killed millions.
Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI, who is chinese, who is buddish, who is sri lankan, who is paki!!! Let us do some guess work & find out after repeating attack & comes the truth!!! Yesterday one guy told that there is no WASTE LAND there in WB because it is tightly populated Today some one telling that there are lot of un-used factories, lot of WASTE LAND available!!! One thing is clear, these COMMUNISTs with their corrupt politics, didn't utilize the old factory as well as don't know how to handle new developments too!!!
RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 08:58 PM Permalink
i think you are ISI.
RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:00 PM Permalink
I really like your posts & some contributions in other forums & your posts below too make me think about changing my views.
RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 08:59 PM Permalink
ISI won't be against communist.
RE:RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 09:01 PM Permalink
all ISI won't support communist either. Some of them have different preferences like you.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:02 PM Permalink
I really like your posts & some contributions in other forums & your posts below too make me think about changing my views.
RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 09:01 PM Permalink
1) You are finding it difficult ? But we ARE NOT ! 2) You again forgot to tell who that guy was 3) You are RIGHT ! mILLIONS OF ACRES OF land of old, closed factories as well as non-multicrop lands are lying Unutilized. Glad that you understand this. Please spread this knowledge too. 4) if you are not too busy please answer my 7 questions POINT by point. But you may say you DO NOT CARE :)
RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:03 PM Permalink
The guy name is Bhaskar Chattopadhyay!!!
RE:RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 09:31 PM Permalink
Where did he say ?
Did you find time to answe my seven small questions ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Now it is very difficult to distingush in FORUM who is Indian, who is ISI!!!
by hello on Mar 15, 2007 09:36 PM Permalink
That is tricky!!! See my comments above. If you said yesterday one thing & today another thing in same name or different based on different opinion, for I don't want to change my name & post differently.
.. and this is the right way. While we are paying through our nose and squeezed for taxes the farmers enjoy tax free income, free elctricity, loans that never have to be repaid , constant pampering... . It is time we called their bluff. We can do without farmers. We can import all the food .. that will be far cheaper.
RE:It is time we put an end to these farmers' tantrums - Good Job Buddha
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 09:08 PM Permalink
LIES ! LIES !! There are not 70 crore farmers here not America just 1 crore.
Those who enjoy tax free income are not farmers but fat land owners. You have your facts corrupted.
All the agricultural raw materials & alloted money ARE STOLEN inabundance so that India has to buy wheat and other food stuffs from outside.
The farmers here actually DO NOT swallow the tax money which in reality is swallowed by those in official and ministerial power in their name and they blame 'poor quality' of agriculture.
Proof : - - Thats why our agriculture is suffering - Thats why now they need money from Industrialists ( are you one byany chance , Eh? )
RE:It is time we put an end to these farmers' tantrums - Good Job Buddha
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 08:55 PM Permalink
LIES ! LIES !! There are not 70 crore farmers here not America just 1 crore.
All the agricultural raw materials & alloted money ARE STOLEN inabundance so that India has to buy wheat and other food st
RE:RE:It is time we put an end to these farmers' tantrums - Good Job Buddha
by Anand Krish on Mar 15, 2007 09:02 PM Permalink
It is a fact Mr.Roy . America has 1 crore farmers and that too most of them week end. They do farming only on sat. and sun. and work in cities on week days.
In India 70% are involved in agriculture - that makes actually 77 crore ( of population of 110 crore) In America so much of food is produced that governmnet buys it and dumps into the sea - literally dumping in to sea. Also they give so much subsidiy to farmers that each cow they own can be put on a flight and sent around teh world . They do it to keep farmers in jobs . We can't afford to do it
RE:RE:RE:It is time we put an end to these farmers' tantrums - Good Job Buddha
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 09:06 PM Permalink
their subsidies are one of the reasons why farmers here commit suicide.
This is the right way to deal with these scum. I really dont know what the 70 crore farmers are doing. America has just 1 crore farmers but it produces 10 times the food as India. It is time we got rid of these farmers. Anyhow they are no more than vote giving machines and swallow all our tax money
RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by subharoy on Mar 15, 2007 08:49 PM Permalink
LIES ! LIES !! There are not 70 crore farmers and not America just 1 crore.
All the agricultural raw materials and alloted money ARE STOLEN so that India has to but wheat and other food stuffs from outside.
They actually DO NOT swallow the tax money which in reality is swallowed by those in official and ministerial power. Proof : -
- Thats why our agriculture is suffering - Thats why now they need money from Industrialists ( are you one byany chance , Eh? )
RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 08:47 PM Permalink
you mean murder the 70 crore if you cannot relocate them?
RE:RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by Anand Krish on Mar 15, 2007 08:51 PM Permalink
No murder. Just call their bluff. If the Tata Factory comes there so many farmers will gain employment and high paying jobs. These farmer guys are digging their own grave
RE:RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 15, 2007 08:49 PM Permalink
why don't the government do something about the wasteland and other unused lands under their control. Are they preserving them for their america educated kids.
RE:RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by Anand Krish on Mar 15, 2007 08:52 PM Permalink
I have put in valid points calling me names wont change teh facts
RE:RE:RE:We have had enough of these farmers - Good job Buddadeb
by Mahesh Kulharia on Mar 15, 2007 09:13 PM Permalink
MurkhAnand Now listen to real facts: 1. America in the year 2005-06 provided a subsidy of 372.14 billion dollars plus farmers were free to selll their produce in open market and the prices were determined by market. In india Farmers recieved 700million dollars in subsidy and the government fixed the rates of their produce. The prices of food grains are fixed low so that the poor people can afford to eat but this takes away the hard earned wealth from farmers. In reality government saves huge amount of money by keeping the prices of food down and hence reduce the subsidy to poor people for food. 2. In america every cow recieves a subsidy of 4.2 dollars every day where as their is no such thing in India. 3. Logically a farmer produces food similar to a factory owner producing goods. So a farmer must have freedom to sell his produce whereever he wants and at what ever price he wants (or determined by market) but government doesnot allow farmers to export their produce so as to keep the supply in India artificially high and the prices down. 3. Last year govt thought of opening the agriculture market and in 6 months the food prices almost doubled (What do you think is driving inflation when oil prices have come down) Government immidiately backtracked. 4. You can get a car loan for 0% but if a farmer wants to buy a tractor he has to pay 14% interest. IS IT NOT EXPLOITATION? 5. The land is private property of Farmer hence it is his wish whether he wants to sell it or not. Govt cannot force it according to law but what is government doing in Nandigram and singur? 6. Land has not only been considered as property it is culturally been considered equivalent to mother. So if someone doesnot want to sell his land even at higher price MUST NOT BE FORCED. Or will you sell your MOTHER IF I PAY YOU 1 MILLION DOLLARS? So clear your knowledge before claiming that your facts are correct. Jaihind
