Hi, I couldn't help but laugh reading most of the posts made here. Don't ask me what religion I belong to coz it's not important. I'm an Indian, that's all that you should know.
Some guys here argued that Islam is pure and true, while someothers agrued that Hinduism is pure and true. I should tell these people that they all are idiots. First of all (pardon me for saying this), no books-(the geetha, the quran or the Bible) are perfect. They all have flaws. We can never be sure whether it was written for us to follow it religiously, or whether it was written as an example how to lead an ideal life. If the latter is true, then that would mean that the almighty (whatever his name maybe), is just an example to learn from (maybe he does not exsist).
I'm not here to argue which religion is true or not, I don't either want to argue whether God exsists or not. All I want to say is that it is my beleif that God is nothing but a big source of energy (Scientifically our bodies are made up of energy, every cell of it). We have the energy within us. In other words, God lives within our bodies, and not up in the skies. By killing humans in the name of religion, we are actually killing tht energy within us.
We live in the 21st century. Are ancestors committed the biggest crime dividing us in different religions. Religion is NOT IMPORTANT, Beleif in the Supreme Energy is.
India is a secular country. It teaches us all to be tolerant. Where else would you find a Muslim President, a Hindu Prime Minister and a Christian Denfense Minister. So beleive what you want to, but remember, others have the right to beleive what they want to. We have the right to freedom of beleif.
P.S. If I un-intentionally hurt any one's feelings, I would like to appologise for it.
RE:Is this Important???
by dr munish raizada on Feb 18, 2007 04:59 AM Permalink
Dear proud Indian, I agree with you. But tell me one thing. Moghuls were invaders for us, no respectable Indian would say that Moghuls were a grace on us (they invaded us and ruled over us like Britishers). Should not we treat moghul period as a dark period in our history. On the same ground, why should we have roads and cities named after a person (aurangzeb) who destroyed temples and looted our wealth? So from that angle, what do you feel. The problem here is that the very muslims are trying to justify auranzeb and hindus think otherwise. My opinion is that all indians should treat him as a villain, no matter what our faith be!
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by on Feb 18, 2007 05:25 AM Permalink
Hello Dr. Munish Raizada, I don't know much about Mughal history. I did a search online after reading the above article, and I got contradicting informations. This period existed many centuries ago, and it would be rather difficult (if not impossible) to prove whether he was just or cruel. We will just have to accept that there would be circumstances when we just have to agree with situations that donot coincide with our beleifs. for eg. Many think that Mahatma Gandhi was wrong when he permitted the partition of India. On the other hand, many blame Jinnah for it. It is just a matter of thinking bout the glass as half full or half empty. Wouldn't you agree that we as Indians have many more things to worry about than our cruel and gentle, bloody and clam, history. Shouldn't we be concentrating more on infrastructure and development and eradication of poverty, etc.
Maybe Auranzeb was a cruel leader, maybe he was generous. But nothing can be proved coz we cannot travel in time. None the less, one thing is for sure, that he is a part of Indian history. Sometimes in life we just have to leave some areas untouched.
Just my opinion. Sorry if I sounded harsh. Regards, A Proud Indian
RE:RE:RE:Is this Important???
by V H on Feb 18, 2007 05:38 AM Permalink
If you don't know anything what are you doing here. Wasting our energy? Go get drunk and halicunate
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by on Feb 18, 2007 05:50 AM Permalink
Hello V.H., Sure I'll go get drunk. But i fail to understand who made you the king of this forum to decide who should participate and who shouldn't?
Atleast I know how to respect other people's rights. Do you?
RE:RE:RE:Is this Important???
by Shankar Panday on Feb 18, 2007 06:50 AM Permalink
Fighting in the name of God was invented in the Middle East by the so called monotheistic religions..these guys went thru Inquistions & Crusades and Jihads..and still fighting...weird concept of God...Aurangzeb was the greatest example of this messed up concept of God..today thanks to 'great' poets like Iqbal who glorified these bigots the spirit of Aurangzeb lives on in the hearts of bin Laden, Al Zawaria and millions of radicals spread throughout the world right now...they fight abt silly things like cartoons..and Arab feudal wars of long long ago in Muharram....God must be freed from these religions..they hv hijacked God..the spirit of eastern religions must be aggressively spread out. Some day the religions how claim to hv a direct agency of God will be gone...
RE:RE:RE:Is this Important???
by on Feb 18, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
Hello Indian Muslim, I don't know what the author's intension's were to post this article. Assuming if you were right that this is a Hate article, don't you think in that case he has already won with the number of people fighting over Islam and Hindusim? Instead of fighting over religion, shouldn't we as Indians unite and accept that Aurangeb was a part of our history. And insist that whether he was just or cruel, had nothing to do with his religion. No religion teaches you to kill another human for no reason, and if any does, I refuse to beleive in it.
When I read the above article, I found it pretty interesting as it reflected the writer's view point of our histor. But it soon turned its track from historical to religious.
But you are right, we have enough misunderstandings of our own already and should refuse to comment on such articles that are so controversial. But if only all Indians could understand this, then we would have been the most powerful nation in the world. We'll get there, it's just a matter of time.
RE:Is this Important???
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 05:56 AM Permalink
On, youy are a big IDIOT. You are confused. You simply say all are not perfect. Why do you want to burry the facts and blkind the Justice? Why don't you agree to the authors observations which are true and known by many people.
It is not just past, it is the same past that we have read in our history books incorrectly. Atleast the future generation should be well informed. My friend, if this is a past topic why the hell Indian students are being taught about the past. And the facts about the very past are incorrect. They should be corrected.
Come out of the mask that has been thrust upon us by the foriegn rulers.
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by on Feb 18, 2007 06:04 AM Permalink
Hello Srinivas, I'm not saying whether the article is correct or not. I not even once say that Auranzeb was a good man or he was a bad man. My main intention is to make people realise that instead of discussing a historical topic, they are discussing about religion. If anyone wants to discuss about Aurangeb, it should be done without emphasizing that "he did this coz he was a muslim and he did not do this coz he wasnt a hindu". A discussion about history shouldnt involve religion.
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by on Feb 18, 2007 06:09 AM Permalink
Srinivas, about your previous reply. If someone links history to religion, then he is an idiot in my opinion. So I dont think I was wrong when I called some people idiots. We are in the 21st century, and we argue what Auranzeb did in the 17th century or 18th century based on some religions that was made (or born, or created) centuries ago.
Way to be civilised. We indeed are in the 21st century???
RE:Is this Important???
by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 04:43 AM Permalink
it is the same mentality which gifted us for 1000years of slavery and thats your religion "slavery", need not know that by asking you. we are secular minded people and have nothing to do whether "this minister is of that religion". but when you are talking about the present government it is the one which has been ruling india by dividing its people till we lose whatever is left as india. Indian people are uninted by nothing but their common faith and culture. If there is no hinduism there is no india. protecting this great faith is protecting india and this is not possible unless we root out such pseudo-secularist thinking.
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by on Feb 18, 2007 05:54 AM Permalink
Hello ded de, We are the ones who elected this government. If they are dividing us, then we are the ones to be blamed. And if you didnot vote in the elections, then you are to be blamed more than the people who voted.
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by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 06:07 AM Permalink
i agree with you that in part the blame squarely lies upon the people . but when you mention the election it reflects your ignorance about real indian politics. i was brought up in bengal and you know how futile the vote means there even if you get a chance to caste one. average bangali really hate "Jyoti basu" but his cronies still remain in power.
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by on Feb 18, 2007 06:13 AM Permalink
Hello ded de, I'm with you on this one. I too hate many (basically all) the politicians out there. But this is something we have the power to change in the next elections. I too hate to see my taxes paid thru my hard earned income go into the pockets of the ministers. But that's how it works untill we make an effort to change it.
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by Ramesh P on Feb 18, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
I didn't elect it and I have the right to talk abt it, I never voted for Cong after I got my voting rights. Thanks to your convent education and insensitivty and indifference to things. May be not everyone can be a PROUD INDIAN like you.
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 04:55 AM Permalink
Sheer paranoia! Once Again! Who do you face this "threat" to hinduism from? Muslims?? You gotta be kidding!
RE:RE:RE:Is this Important???
by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 05:21 AM Permalink
its not paranoia but based on facts. history teaches us that it repeats unless we eradicate the cause. tell me what do you think about hindus of kashmir,bangladesh and now even the districts of assom , west bengal where muslim population has overtaken those of hindus. why do you think the same fate doesn't hold true for rest of india. what do you think is the remedy. asking us to close our eyes and wait for the inevitable or learn from history and be cautious and take steps to stop that reoccuring. taking action for hindus doesn't mean anywhere near to jinnahs "direct action" thats islamic action. we dont call for throwing out muslims , or to treat them as subhumans as they do to their minorities . we want indian muslims to be reform ,do away with their bogotry, concepts of international muslim brotherhood ,delink themselves from the international muslim brotherhood and restrict their identiry to "Indian muslim" only.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Is this Important???
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 05:30 AM Permalink
We dont call for "throwing" out muslims???
Read the posts if you have time and see for yourselves, how many have bayed the muslim blood, after reading this article.
You says delink themseleves from international muslim brotherhood, but you talk of bangladeshi hindus? Nobody will come forward for muslims in any case, we know that.
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by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 05:44 AM Permalink
i have read those posts baying for muslim blood. but they are the people who either themselves or their parents or grandparents have witnessed things like "great calcutta killing", or have read it from somewhere and have come to conclusion that things cannot be changed unless such extreme and inhuman means. when they get assurance otherwise such feelings will die down.
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by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 05:36 AM Permalink
so i am myself a "bangladeshi hindu" ,my parents and grandparents have been witness to the real holocaust. but indian at first. bangladesh and pakistan i consider as part of india. if some arabs get converted to hinduism and persecuted for that i will not be supporting them any more than supporting a prosecuted minority.
RE:Is this Important???
by Ramnarayan R on Feb 18, 2007 07:17 AM Permalink
Dear Sir, dont sow seeds of more hatred buddy, colonial europeans rulers have fingered a lot more than aurangzeb in asia ,middleeast and are responsible for death of millions of hindus and muslims and jews and christians all over the world even after being highly educated , supposed to be very advanced in all human fields .. Yes Aurangzeb was a despot and caused a lot of lives, but at the time the whole world was medivial, he atleast formed the strongest army for india . Dont forget there were several hindu generals fighting for him. Wishfull thinking would have been to Shivaji and aurangzeb to join hands and form a all powerfull indian empire. It didnt happen then ,but today all communities live together and this diversity is the result of rising strenght of India. Here there seems to be a problem with Aurangzeb road,what about the glorification of churchill who was a downright racist and colonial despot.
RE:RE:Is this Important???
by talk cool on Feb 18, 2007 08:48 AM Permalink
Dont just use fancy words like Secular , comunal harmony. We are doing from years and see what we got.Our country was occupied, loted, raped and torn apart.Did hindus do any thing for all this. How can you sit happy when the Sapta Sandu the place Hinduism originated was in Pakisthan and some buther will be cutting Bakra there.I am asking Muslims just to shut-up and join the main stream as any Minorities. India is a great land which assimilates all religions. Do we have problems with Zorastranians (parsis). When they were kicked out of Iran we gave shelter. Now nobody recognizes them as different. Do u know Tata/Godrej are Iranians? We think they are our own Indian.but ironically it is not the same with our own 'converted' Muslims. Why? They have, some where seeds of hatret. they dispise Hindus and Hinduism but branding us 'fundamentalist' etc.there is some hidden propoganda in their Madarasas and Mosques. I dont know when will they grow up.
i wish to congratulate Francois for doing something that we Indians do not have guts for. why is it that foreigners have to make us realize of our history. no matter what the government does or has done in the past to tamper the history, the truth is that Aurangzeb was a ruthless, cruel and Islamic fanatic. there is so much written about his misdeeds in Hindu and Sikh scriptures. its high time we stand up and accept our great cultural and religious heritage ignoring the dogma taught to us through our history textbooks in school, created by communists.
I too feel angry about what medieval turks, persians, afghans and central asian huns (moghals) did to our people. But practically speaking Muslims are as part and parcel of present day India as Hindus are. If Islam arrived with Arabs & Turks to India starting from 8th century then Vedic people also came as marauders around 1500 BC. So what we should do is accept all the cultures / religions as inherent properties of India that has helped us to evolve. That's how British for instance view their Celtic, Anglo Saxon, Norman ancestory. They don't try to see if Anglo-Saxons were destroyed by Norsemen and so view all present day Swedes as mortal enemies of English. Making this comparison might sound absurd to you.. but treating Muslims as aliens is as absurd as that.
RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 04:21 AM Permalink
You believe in Aryan Invasion theory. It was not never proved in a peer reviewed basis. Why do you want to go the dangerous path spreading these lies and dividing India on racial lines when most Hindus belive they have been living here for more than those dates you quote. Hinduism did not develop and the culture that cannot be easily comprehended, did not develop in few hundred years. It took many thousands of years. The maraauers you quote comes from Max Mueller who was closely related to powerful christian missionaries. The Aryan-Invasion theory was demolished by many and will continued to be so. The issue is, most Indians still fall for fair skin, are racist people, so it takes time to get it in their heads that their history was not about the colour theory proposed by goras for their self-interests. Most of the people living in India were there here when Mohenjadora and Harappa came crashing down and others moved here. Who came later are very few, and the last they did was converted to Hinduism. Their goals were different. Hinduism originated in India. Get it through your head. The pagan spirit has reformed and has evolved in it's own.
You need to Spread the lies for what? appeasing Muslims?
RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 04:32 AM Permalink
Aryan-Invasion theory was grounded in 18th century and came out on it's own in 19th century. It has lost a lot of weight in 20th century. Brits were smart dudes. They classified some castes as Martian tribes and the Pakis believe in that theory. They believe one of them can take on 10 Hindus. Lies man. It will be demolished as time passes on. Aryan-invasion theory is bogus. None of Hindu nationalists vouch for it. We were here for millenia developing our culture when the the goras didn't know how to cook their food or to tailor any clothes to cover their organs. What happened later was degeneration and isolation. They must be corrected.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 04:53 AM Permalink
well, Indian Muslim, the guy whose post i was replying to, wanted Muslims and their Islam to be treated on par with everything else in India because he thought things came hunting from Central Asia, even Hinduism he believes. That's fine to treat everyone equally. But he was distorting facts and there must be some motive that drives it. Some devious mind at work.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 05:01 AM Permalink
No. Most respected Historians with any credibility wouldn't either. Others will propagate the myth to see India divided. What drives the Hindu spirit is very deep. Others can spread their lies.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 04:57 AM Permalink
So, if I am right, you would not accept the Aryan-invasion theory Right?
RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 06:42 AM Permalink
Hi Indian Muslim,
Whatever chaitanya has said is correct. Nothing is going against him. He is talking about the facts. Brits have created the Aryan Invasion theory for their own intrests. Just like they have created WMD theory to attack Iraq.
Try to accept the facts. 'Hate' seems to be your favorite thing that you have used in many of your postings to counter people who are talking sensibly.
No Hindu will ever hate good that exists in any religion. If you are really good and a true Indian then do not worry.
Don't you see the fact these very HIndus have parted their land in the form of Pakistan and Bangladesh.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by talk cool on Feb 18, 2007 08:58 AM Permalink
HINDUISM IS THE ONLY SUVIVING RELIGION WHICH IS NOT STARTED BY ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL.Also it is the oldest relegion on earth today. All the religions which are like that were dead long time ago.Either by foced conversions or anhilation. If you are born hindu u shd be proud & thankful of your fathers, fore-fathers, etc who have carefully preserved this religion from Forced Convertors, Soft Convertors.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 07:23 AM Permalink
So you are saying Imaan was talking sensibly when i said he was spreading Hatred?
RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 05:03 AM Permalink
i must agree with you aryan invasion theory has not much to do with appeasing muslim .it was invented to make way for christian missioneries rather than muslims in mind .so that xtian priest can proudly proclaim themselves "son of abrahams" during the prayers. the term "appeasing the muslims" as done by this con'men mean all those activities which are meant to promote the false .irrational and divisive beliefs among muslims at the cost of creating division within the country. the glorification of this evil aurangzeb is just a very little of it. i bet not one of you educated indian muslims would have come out in his support had our education system had tought the correct history. all the goverment has done is to increase the bigotry among muslims instead of trying to remove them,just to be in power. `
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by ded de on Feb 18, 2007 06:19 AM Permalink
correct history have not to do with hatred of islam/muslims but has definitely to do with the danger posed by the bigoted and fundamentalis brand of it as espoused by those kings. we wouldn't be concerned with what had happened 500years ago if that bigotry had died with time. when we see what is happening to kashmiri ,bengali,keralian hindus it reminds us the need to act by learning from that 1000year history.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 05:36 AM Permalink
Why does correct history have to have hatred for islam/muslims rather than those kings?
Why does it have to be used to make you hate your next door neighbor muslim? Who wouldnt have had anything to do with anybody 500 years ago? When you yourself claim the conversion theory, why do i have to pay if my ancestors have gone through brutal conversion themselves?
RE:RE:RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 08:12 AM Permalink
Hi Indian Muslim, It is not about kumar talking sense or Imaan talking sense. It is about the truth. It is about the facts. It is about the evidence.
Try looking at the evidence. Do not blindly try to argue. So you want to say Aurangazeb is a pure man. Ha Ha. People will laugh at you.
get corrected yourself with the history.
So you are talking about the right wing Ideology to take the parted land again. Then you accept that Hindus have given away their land. Don't you think it was a big injustice done to Hindus and they were forced to part their land?
Do not try to divert the topic a lot. you will find youself in trouble and ridiculed. Everyone knows the facts.
RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 06:30 AM Permalink
Mr Governor,
Aryan invasion theory is false. It is no more a secret to hide. It is created by the Brits for their own intrests. Golti did not say anything against any religion. All that he said is Indians have to consolidate their culture.
If Brits are holy cows, why did they enter Iraq? They will do whatever is required to build their wealth.
RE:RE:kudos to Francois
by Secular Indian on Feb 18, 2007 07:20 AM Permalink
There never was an "Aryan Invasion", it was actually invented by a German Max Mueller who was also a Bible literalist and the time of the invasion 1500BC was chosen by him to coincide with the receding of the biblical flood. It's quite surprising that this conjecture has been so difficult to purge from the Indian mindset. I also believe it is at the heart of the North/South divide which without the Aryan Invasion nonsense is difficult to justify.
The real reason behind the success of tyrants like Aurangzeb is the north indian people who shamelessly gave up the will to fight and meekly became Moghal's slaves.
When Shivaji Maharaj with limited resources could withstand the might of Moghals so easily why did all those martial races in Punjab, Haryana, UttarPradesh display such a cowardice and became slaves? Rajputs did fight for a while before giving up. If Moghals destroyed cultural centers of North India.. no one other than North Indians are to be blamed for not defending their culture.
RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 04:02 AM Permalink
Are you from South India? I am southie too. if so, you have any clue what the people in North India went through and protecting your ways in the process? People there have put a hard fight but the Islamic barbaric spirit was a shocking spirit for those times. Hindus were isolating themselves and never expected an aggressive political ideology to come crossing Indus and rape us... and the aggressive North Indian spirit you see now has many things to do with the subjugations during Islamic rule. You have no clue dude. You got the Telugu, Tamil, Kannad, Malayalam mostly untainted, the temple structures very less destroyed than north, and they had to change their language where Arab words and persian words were included into the script and the script went through phases. You seem to have a regional mindset. You are worse than a Muslim. India was invaded, divided and haunted because of this regional mindset. Now same thing seems to repeat itself.
RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by Governor General on Feb 18, 2007 04:48 AM Permalink
You are exactly saying what I thought you would say. What aggressive spirit are you talking about?
For your information .. North Indians never protected SouthIndia from being plundered. Most of the moghal armies that plundered rest of India was made of North Indians.
If SouthIndian temples stand today that's because of our spirit to defend them and resist foreign invasion.
What north Indians did was ..
1. Invite alien muslim invader to attack his neighbouring kingdom
2. Command Muslim armies against his own brotherly kingdoms (Who commanded Akbar's armies? again?..)
3. Fall one over another to pay tributaries to the Sultans of Delhi...
This attitude was first demonstrated by the north Indians when Ambi sided with Alexander and helped him to fight Porus. That's your history deal with it..
RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 05:23 AM Permalink
you must be a sick Tamilian who believes in "dravidian supremacist" theory. See, you made me say it now. You made me a racist and you seem to want it that way only. I come from Andhra. The thing is, the regional spirit in the south was isolated from what was happening at the peripharals of Indus and the issues people had to deal there. They had to trade with foreigners as southies had to do it with Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Malaysia of those times. Islam as a political ideology came from Arab deserts and it was very well motivated and driven by the armies to convert tribes and destroy the ancient cultures and blend them into the rigid fold to make way for Allah worship. Hindus never expected it and they weren't prepared for a Mohammed and his fundametal thoughts that would inspire many to invade and plunder India and stay there to implement their thought. Yes, South India under Vijayanagara Empire gave a good defence and it's main constitution was to protect the Hindu heritage which it did for more than 300 years against sultanates of the north. Marathas at one point brought the Mughals to their knees and conquered most of India but the dynasty came to be weak later and the empire disintegrated. And you must know that most of North West India was under Buddhist influence when the invasion started. So effectively, it's the Rajputs who gave some oppositions and others followed. True, they might have joined the ranks of armies of invaders later as did many Nayaks and many south indians under Tipu Sultan, Nizam, Bahmani sultanate. And the south Indians fell for tributaries too. Otherwise people wouldn't have stayed in Mysore and Hyderabad for that long until independence. You have a way of looking at many Indians as the other. Mistakes are done then by many and Tamil Nadu has seen the least Islamic rule of all. Others took the the brunt. About Ambi siding with someone, well for all i know most of these guys must be converts by now. If any of that school are left, where are they? Who are they? are you one of them? or the Marxist brigade? the "Secular" brigade"? it's definetely not the Hindutva brigade. Why do people there hate Pakistan more than southies? You still want to be reminded of who commanded Akbar's army against a brother, instead of making ammends now. That's very low life.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by Governor General on Feb 18, 2007 06:33 AM Permalink
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Your post has two points.
1. You are plainly stating what happened.
2. You are abusing me.
There is no analysis in your post.
I'll ignore your abuse and answer your points.
Did you strive to think why Tamil Nadu was least affected by Muslims? Is it because NorthIndian kings gave their lives saving Tamil state? What do you mean by others took the brunt?
Mysore under Tipu Sultan was a British period occurance. The dynamics of a Indian foot soldier (Hyder Ali) taking over a Kingdom was different from a surrender of an existing kingdom at the sound of march of Alien kings.
Bahmini states were never allowed to stabilize in Deccan because of various resistance provided by SouthIndians (Vijayanagar is a glorious example). That's what was lacking in North India. One Turk general comes and then the entire North India falls at his feet. It gets followed by an Afghan general..Punjab to Bengal falls to his feet. That's what I am commenting here.
Does stating these facts makes me a Communist? Don't show your immaturity. I am an entrepreneur surviving solely 'coz of Capital markets and open economy.
I don't belong to any brigades.. I apply my mind.
The manner in which you speak.. looks like you are a person brainwashed by some ideology.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 07:46 AM Permalink
Bahmani sultanata has wrought a lot destruction in deccan and you can refer the sources for it.. It's as worse as millions raped, temples destroyed and many other things. You are a sick guy man, General. My abuse is nothing. Your mindset is the problem. You want to look at many Indians of your own religion as the other. I never called you a communist. I called you a tamil nationalist and dravidian supremacist which you most probably are. India gives two hoots about what a guy from Tamil Nadu has to say about his state, if he has only that to say in good manner. Leave out rest of south india from your dravidian mess you created there. It's a fallacy, the theory and ideology. Your point of view is cornered and you reveal yourself in each of your posts. The dividing mindset. Hyder Ali, the "foot soldier", when did he become an Indian? Is Babur and Ghazni Indian too? What about Bin Qasim? You are funny when you say vijanagara as the only glorious example, because it has the least to do with Tamil people. Now you are making me talking in regional level. People like you, this where they drag others. The vijayanagara was founded and based to protect the telugu and kannad culture in whose rule they have seen maximum cultural evolution. It has least to do with Tamil. Anyway, the point is, it is not the only one. There were the Marathas who occupied most of India at one point. Vijayanagara never did that. And as i said before, most of North West India in Sindh and surrounding region was under Buddhist influence during invasion, and buddhists don't like wars so much. I hope you get the point there. What is your problem man? why do you see people from other parts of India as if they failed miserably and their History is for them to blame, when your ancestor's ass was singing a song peaceful while these guys were getting their nerves and jaws broken, a tumultous cultural shift forced on them, which they are still dealing with the trauma of it. What is your problem in understanding fellow Indians and their issues? Why do you have to see it through blinkered vision of us vs. them. Tipu Sultan and his History you never read i guess. He did a lot worse with Hindus in Kerala which btw i came to know from a friend who is a Tamilians and a Hindu patriot. He killed hundreds of thousands of children there. The stories are gory. It's glaring and don't be indifferent, so learn it. People in places have gone through hell. Marxist bred school History will not teach it and in anycase, these facts are being corrected. Buddhism has seen it's greatest physical destruction due to Islamic invasion starting from Nalanda Massacre in 1199 where 20,000 nuns were killed in a monastry. Hinduism has seen the largest genocide ever witnessed by mankind, mainly in north west india during this period of invasions and rule. New facts will come to light.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by Governor General on Feb 18, 2007 01:44 PM Permalink
chaitanya kumar,
I know that Vijayanagar empire's ruling clans were Telugus/Kannadigas. But following are well known facts.
Vijayanagara architecture was a combination of the Chalukya, Hoysala, Pandya and Chola styles.
Wikipedia says that though much of the Tamil literature from this period came from Tamil speaking regions ruled by the feudatory Pandya who gave particular attention on the cultivation of Tamil literature, some poets were patronised by the Vijayanagara kings. It further goes on to say that Vijayanagara was originally of the Karnataka country and it drew its inspirations from the Hoysala Empire and the Gangas of the Karnataka and the Chola and Pandya of the Tamil country. But it is chiefly remarkable in raising above all regionalism and in creating the all India nationalism of to-day in all of its spheres of activities.
You say "It has least to do with Tamil"... You are twisting history for your needs.
You assumed that I am a Dravidian sympathiser and go on to accuse that it's a fallacy. I don't know how much you know about Dravidian movement but if you are from Andhra and still speak Telugu in your home then you have to thank Dravidian movement for that. If it was not there you would most probably speaking Hindi in your home. Anti caste activities of Dravidian movement was another major reason why upper caste discrimination was so easily defeated in Tamil Nadu. From your talks I can understand that you know nothing about the history of Dravidian movement but don't act smart we tamils want none of your participation in any of our political activities. Btw I am NOT a Dravidian movement follower. Its political activities are far from perfect but still it deserves far better respect than your ignorant abuses.
Again don't repeat historical events I too have read them. Yes I very well know the atrocities of Tipu Sultan. I know that he is a tyrant. What's your point? You seem to be confused and not answering my points. Don't jump from one issue to another. Answer me why didn't North Indians fight Muslims.. Why did they get burned or became willing slaves.. the same North Indians who today call themselves as Jats the warriors, Rajputs the greats.. Punjabis the martial race etc etc.. The same people fell one over another to avoid fighting Muslim invaders. Answer me that.
Btw I don't think that common buddhist man is a non-violent to the level of getting killed without a fight. Past and present history of Buddist countries show contrary facts.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 03:29 PM Permalink
Dravidian movement had it's purpose in eradicating few evils, but the theory was a fallacy dude. It was never proven the dravidians are the ones who were original settlers. And the term Aryan in Indian context if foregone conclusion, where people of all colour have been living here for a long time time. You must understand that brits had their interests in seeing the aryan-dravidian myth succeed in India. It failed miserably. You tamilians are the only guys who give so much weight to that theory. You must read few things about Hindutva and Hindu nationalism as you seem to be a Hindu too. You may not want to come out of your tamilian web, but at least understand that your culture has elements from roots of other similar culture elsewhere in India. Shankara, The Advaita Vedanta(the last and most important school of vedanta) guru, was a Malayali, and there were many other south indians of such nature who made bonds with people from kashmir to kanyakumari. We are one people. Savarkar was a staunch hindu nationalist and so was Golwalkar. Read some books about Hindutva, it's about pan-indian nationalism. There are many RSS shakhas in Tamil Nadu and these guys recently fought with DMK govt. to make sure temple funds in your state are not diverted for funding the activities of other religions. They are doing many other things in Tamil Nadu. RSS is the largest volunteer movement in the world. They don't follow untouchability in their shakhas and they discourage other Indians to not to do it. Infact most inter-caste marriages in India are found among Hindu right wing groups. They are working now with tribals and women to eradicate many social evils. They are here to protect your culture also dude. Tamil will not be destroyed and Telugu wouldn't be either. They don't have issues with any of us Hindus. It's the anti-national thoughts of others that hinders the national spirit is what bothers them. India is very diverse and we know we need a common identity, which is very binding in nature to make sure the nation doesn't disintegrate like it did many times in past. So Hindutva is something you can take your time and learn about and be a tamil hardcore if you want. Both can be done at same time.
You should read more History and credible sources. In Wikipedia, anyone can write anything and Indian history is not well scrutinised there many people as say American History, were thousands of Americans participate in the site and write their History with enthusiasm there through extensive research. So what you say about Vijayanagara might not be entirely true. You should also understand that, there are various controversies in the way vijayanagara's main motives go. But the Hindu heritage protection is defientely what drived them, but there are other controversies about Kannad, Telugu and others claiming the heritage of the empire as their own. We south indian people are simple minded and still fight between eachother. Others have the'r problems too. But think what we do if we guys were sitting near Indus when the invaders came. It can only be a guess and nothing more than that.
governor who have a valid point when you doubt the martial spirit of the people in northern india. Yes, they must be studied in detail why the people gave up without a great fight. The point is, India was largely divided by then. Smaller kingdoms everywhere, even in south and they lost the uniting spirit when the invaders came marching.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by Perv Sharma on Mar 03, 2007 06:46 AM Permalink
Governor
Have you read Sikh / Muslim history
It's clear that the kashmir hindus came to seek help from Sikh gurus due to the torture and conversion of them at the islamic kings. The gurus as non-violent approach asked the kings to allow every citizen to follow his own faith which was rejected and hence they took to Arms. That's how the Sikhs as a military sect was born and they fought the islamic unjust rule. It's one big factor why hindus managed to survive whereas 90% population of Kashmir was converted.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Real reason behind Aurangzeb
by Governor General on Feb 18, 2007 09:23 AM Permalink
Srinivas,
You are a big opinionated person with no brains. I don't know if you understood what I am saying. Your meaningless anger is blinding you from analyzing what I am saying.
"you seem to be a sick guy who is ill informed" - Why do you think you are better informed?
"I believe you are not fit to comment on this topic" - You and your beliefs... I care for facts not your beliefs.
"you should be either a sick fanatic or a missionary" - You are an immature person that thinks anyone that differs from your point of view as fanatic.. and your ideology makes u think that I am a missionary..
You make ur opinions and start believing that. That makes u a mentally retarded person and..yeah in your language a sick person. I have now said.. why I think you are retard.
this writer is always writing what he does not want to write be in the case of religion, a person or a movie or take for instance anything the writer is always gathering something or the other to create a heated debates and he is always rated is the worst writer by all the readers so dear readers , what you read is not 100percent fact some things are fabricated as well so its your chance to explore the truth if you really want to and serve the purpose of the writer he wants us readers to explore the truth by saying something or the other so that the readers keep them busy in life so keep busy and KILL THE TIME THATS WHAT FOR WHAT WE ARE HERE AND THATS WHY YOU ARE READING MY POSTING
I think this blog is promoting wrong path to the indian youth. It is a time to fight together and not fight internally.
Some one is trying to break our culture.
Sucha Unique one where are communities live in peace. Please dont let this happen.
As i know all over the world people have nothing got to do with religion other than some FANATICS IDIOTS who will die and will make others die with them.
IGNORE SUCH DEMONS!
IMAAN if ur being mislead..come back dude.
There is much out of life ull get then hatred.
Love is all important..find Love and right path.
I pray both in Temples and in Mosques. There is no differnce. I think all Muslims should pray in temples and Hindus in Mosques..let the Fanatics quill.
In this way our roots will become strong as One India.
RE:Imaan Needs Medical Attention.
by V H on Feb 18, 2007 05:31 AM Permalink
How will this bhai bhai thing work? Look at Shabana Azmi and other people who are trying to work together with Hindus. They go only after Hindu reactionary force and are afraid of muslims because of death threat. Whats the use of beating only one side?
Indian muslim Know the fact that it is because of tolerant nature of hinduism you see 140 million muslims are able to live in India. Just see Saudi Arabia, Pakistan ,Iran -- 97-98% muslim. If we were like the people who follow islam how the world would have looked like.
RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by soheb mohiuddin on Feb 18, 2007 03:54 AM Permalink
the world have looked like a muslim world with a better peace and love and regarding tolerace if you are talking if muslims were not tolerant then you would be a muslim and your name would be nadeem not nagesh as india was ruled by muslims for 1300year and you are still alive so watch your own words dear and about saudi arabia or pakistan or iran or what ever why dont you see america why ther is no hinduism or islam in majority and why india is having majority hindus then who is trying to wipe out hindus no one but your own brothers who are indians but have no faith or religion my dear grow up no one is killing you or asking you to change your name or religion so why are you crying and weeping like a wolfs cry , cry only when ther is a real wolf keep your tears for then ok
RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 04:28 AM Permalink
You talk as if , muslims are a ethnic tribe. Its not a tribe, its not a family clan.
RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by V H on Feb 18, 2007 04:51 AM Permalink
India Hindu majority? What do you eat everyday? Think of India with Pakistan and Bangladesh in it. You can't slice away everything and then claim Hindus are in majority when 2 people are left in that tiny land. Lets do the math:
150 Million in India 170 Million in Pakistan 150 Million in Bangladesh Total: 470 Million Muslims in the sub-continent.
Do you see the picture? There are 700 Million Hindus left. You are pretty close to 40%. Not a bad achievement in 1000 years to get to this number. Freak
RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 04:58 AM Permalink
These majority of the 470 million people are in the service of the same people , who have done horrible things to their own ancestors and reduced them to slaves. Slavery has taken its toll on them. ISLAM and TOLERANCE , the whole world knows these are opposite words
RE:RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 05:03 AM Permalink
Yes Nagest, you can only speak what the majority speak. I wonder if the world starts speaking in a different tone , would u start humming praises? I wonder not. You just want to make hay while the sun is shining. Your innner hatred for muslims, comes to the fore whenever you see an opportunity.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 09:01 AM Permalink
Indian muslim -- I don't hate anyone . I just feel sad to have so many traitors in the country. We need to have a serious debate on INDIAN MUSLIMS where their hearts lie. We don't want to be fooled by pretensions.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 09:05 AM Permalink
It once happened in 1947 ,INDIA was split because of Islamic fundamentalists , creating PAKISTAN - world terrorist head quarters. We don't want more terrorist havens in our neighbourhood once more.
RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 05:01 AM Permalink
What was the population percentage at the time of partition ? Remember there were no family planning or whatever at that time.........
RE:RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by V H on Feb 18, 2007 05:34 AM Permalink
Nobody had family planning then. But now, muslims can still have 4 wives, so no women goes waste.
As for percentage I don't know the exact break up. But one thing for sure muslim percentage has been growing up steadily.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:DON'T TEACH US TOLERANCE
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 06:41 AM Permalink
yeah thats why its 13% from the partition time till date :P
One thing that Mr. Gautier has left out is the famous Bindu Madhava temple in Benares. Aurangzeb razed this majestic and impressive Vishnu temple in Sept 1682 and built a masjid on it!!!
RE:Gautier has left out Bindu Madhava Temple in Benares!
by talk cool on Feb 18, 2007 09:14 AM Permalink
One more to the list.In Warangal(near Hyderabad) there is a great 1000 pillar temple (Veyi Stambal Gudi). There the Vishnu, Siva idols was smashed to half.People can see that even today.
RE:Gautier has left out Bindu Madhava Temple in Benares!
by soheb mohiuddin on Feb 18, 2007 03:57 AM Permalink
thank you for the site its a really great site
