India needs to reprocess or continue to enrich nuclear fuel. What is the gain if India switches its dependence on foreign oil to dependence on foreign nuclear fuel? Besides to keep Indias nuclear weapons operational their nuclear fuel NEEDS to be REFRESHED . Bottom line is India must get SAME and EXACT rights as USA or no deal can be made.
It may not be good for India to be identified with America, as America wants India to dance to their tune, What happened to England during the Iraq war should not happen to us. America does not understand. They are still dreaming about their past. But the time is changing.
RE:It seems that we better hide!!!
by Sivakumar Periasamy on Apr 13, 2007 09:31 PM Permalink
U are right. By the way, are U Sureshkumar K from VCRI Siva P
The US Federal treasury is running out of money to US's overseas lenders - CHINA AND JAPAN!!
The financial position of the United States has declined dramatically in the last 15 years. The United States federal budget is in the deep red, adding to America's dependency on borrowing money from overseas lenders and instantly creating huge debts to pay back. So far overseas borrowings have provided essential support to the value of the US dollar but the dollar is declining and so is that support by lenders. As the largest debtor nation, the US will have to be more conciliatory to its lenders; China is one of the biggest among them. The overseas lenders will be forced to switch from the dollar to a new currency reserve for international trade. At that time, the US economy and it's credit standing will plunge all together.
The United State's biggest overseas lenders are China and Japan; both these countries could easily cause very serious financial problems, if they wish to do so at any time in the near future. Nearly 27% of the government bonds issued by the US treasury are bought by China and Japan, another 14% by the Middle East countries. That's why the US doesn't complain much about lawless dictatorships and states with very worst human rights record. A country whose financial affairs are in the hands of foreigners is not a superpower.
Almost no one is saving any money in the United States today. Many don't have any money to save or simply don't want to save. Saving rates are very low or negative in many US states. The US government debt grows by about $1.5 billion per day and has now crossed more than $9.0 trillion dollars. The US private household debt has now crossed more than $11.5 trillion and half of these debts have been incurred after 1998. The fact is that the expanding consumer debt drives the US economy. The Americans are enjoying the present spending spree at the cost of their own future and future generations. In the near future, many Americans might have to face harsh reality like a poverty-stricken, third world family, living from hand to mouth situation without any kind of financial reserves whatsoever. The imminent economic crisis is waiting to happen in the US and will be most thoroughly predicted one in recent human history.
So, they are selling the USELESS NUCLEAR technology to make some money and create a counter balance to China.
Until, the US's '6th class' attitude changes, Anti-Americanism will gro like a wild fire!!
RE:BECAUSE
by on Apr 13, 2007 10:05 PM Permalink
I am an Indian, I don't want tell about others problems & their debts. It is their national preference. Like that I also expect to help us to sort out our electricity problem w/o much bothering about our national security. For that I need US & other Nations in NSG, help.
RE:BECAUSE
by Uday Porandla on Apr 13, 2007 09:59 PM Permalink
He is not being anti-american here.He just said the facts and infact they are stark realities. US would no longer be a economic super power if the oil ceases to exist in the middle east. Its rich economy even though debt-ridden will no longer continue once the US dollar is replaced as Global Reserve Currency. Every country wants to trade with US to get the dollar in its central bank. With more dollars, you make purchase internationally like oil, goods and commodities. Only US dollar mind you and not any British pound or Euro no matter how strong your economy is. Its the military might of US that makes US stronger. Economy is like multi layered sphere. Here incase of US, its like dollar is being backedup of Tomahawk ,Abram tanks..and they are again backed up of US Dollar. Remember Dollar is just a Fiat currency. See some history of Bretton Woods, Middle East Oil Embargo...and you know why US owns most of the world resources for free...!
RE:BECAUSE
by on Apr 13, 2007 09:47 PM Permalink
Anti American dudes in the forum are some commies who always oppose what ever it is american, they don't care good for whom, bad for whom. If it is American, then oppose, that is written in their fate. We expect a moderate policy from American in terms of what ever civilian deal considering our security too, that is my wish. Note it is civilian deal, please avoid talking about military while dealing w/ a civilian deal. We know American and others also responsible too. America is beautiful, educated, technologically superior. Let us wish good for all nations.
RE:BECAUSE
by UmaShankar SathyaKumar on Apr 13, 2007 09:50 PM Permalink
What is your NAME????? NAMELESS...U are talking about America is beautiful?????.... Do you know where is a country called America????
RE:BECAUSE
by Chankya Pandit on Apr 14, 2007 01:22 AM Permalink
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 13, 2007 09:21 PM | Hide message the mere fact that you wear anti-americanism on your sleeves shows the might of the nation. Leave the debt burden out. USA has the best scientific research and educational institutions, very vibrant democracy and to top it all, the US military and cutting edge technology which makes sure that dollar stays the way it is. Pride in your nation instead of going with the flow of anti-american dudes like commies, muslims and others who gain from it.
RE:Foul
by on Apr 13, 2007 09:38 PM Permalink
I am another Indian who love the World's Super Power & other powers too. We need friendship of all nations. That is my wish too.
RE:Foul
by Sureshkumar K on Apr 13, 2007 09:25 PM Permalink
Heheh! No way. I was just unable to imagine about a democratic country behaving in such a boorish manner, as if it is a person and it is only Bush. But I thought that we should not loose our cool.
RE:Foul
by Sivakumar Periasamy on Apr 13, 2007 09:46 PM Permalink
what is the professionalisn U expect in this deal when it hangs in the deep valley without support
US wants to clip the nuclear millitary power of India, and India wants to empower the nuclear capability through the Indo-US Nuclear deal. Americans are so clever and Indians are so much clever. Let the deal suceed or fail, nobody is going to be losser.
RE:Why should depend on US
by Golden on Apr 13, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
yes.. now you understand the real face of USA. take some inspiration from Iran and behave like human to muslims. only muslims can defeat the US tyranny thats why i respect islam.
RE:Why should depend on US
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:58 PM Permalink
We need American help as well as others help for our growth, let us have more talks & make them understand our position.
RE:Why should depend on US
by on Apr 13, 2007 10:22 PM Permalink
I agree that there should be more talks , but the point is that when Indian demands are not met how can we expect to sign the deal?Remember, that US is aiming to bring India under NPT and CTBT which themselves are flawed.US is educated and advanced are accepted but that does not mean that we loose our senses to put our scientific community's freedom of research, on stake. Nations , at international fora, must be treated equally. Secondly, if the deal does not go through, US should not sulk and its wisdom will be tested if it still keeps a good relation with India. India has allowed for inspection for 14 of her nuclear plants. What more do you ask from India? Refusing nuclear fuel and reusing fuel is confinement of our freedom. US sulks when India trades with Iran but what about India who has been seeing US giving monetary support and past military support to Pakistan in past despite knowing the realities?Remember, the interests of our scientific community comes first. Manmohan Singh once quoted that if deal does not go through still India - US relations won't be affected - this statement itself testifies goodwill nature of India. On the other hand US politician loosing cool and warning us shows their immaturity. India can not be collared and sign the treaty under dueres.
RE:Why should depend on US
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:31 PM Permalink
World want India to be part of the world like others in this globalized ways. Let them change their position comes w/o any strings attached.
RE:Why should depend on US
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:29 PM Permalink
It is other ways round my brother, we need more electricity for the poor w/o compromising our national security, N-Deal is one of the good ways for producing electricity like other ways like thorium etc. We need more talks to explain our requirements to others.
RE:Why should depend on US
by Sivakumar Periasamy on Apr 13, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
If US is really interested in providing techniques to improve the electricity production in our country, they can go for the deal without much restrictions on indian side. They want to get some dollars from the deal. If the scientific advancement is really meant for the welfare of human being, they can give it in free without restrictions. India never act as untrust partner in big deal, unlike other countries.
This deal was the last chance to get out of nuke obscurity and make progress in atleast peaceful use of nuke tech but alas we are the best firers when it come to shooting down own foot. We dream that we shall one day test multi mega ton bombs, we dream we shall one day be acknowledged as a great nuke power without realising that the world has progressed intellectually. Except for the minimum detterent which we have obligation to develop, we need US tech more than anything today. Bombay is facing power cuts, Delhi is known for it and when metros are bearing the brunt god save rest of India. Today's decision or lack of it in name of nuke chuvanism shall be derided by our future generation and once again we have not fired at our foot but put live electric wire on our forehead (and mind you there is a powercut which has given us time to rethink seriously)
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:15 PM Permalink
I appreciate Brazil support too, I just read in another forum. If I missed any other nations, who supported our position, then please forgive me.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by V S on Apr 13, 2007 08:44 PM Permalink
India should develop it's own renewable sources of energy like wind , gobar gas , solar and Tidal and hydro.
There is no need to depend ononly US technology especially when it comes with too many clauses and strings attached.
US is a crook nation of back stabbers. Remember what they did to Saddam who was their favourite dictator at one time.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by G S on Apr 13, 2007 08:13 PM Permalink
Good Amit , what will happen to your electricity when Chinese will enter India. It would be fool to let our guards down and enjoy on luxary. Strong nation can get luxury whenever it wants. See how US protects it's citizen out of harms way even in remote part of globe. We are miles behind Chinese (who are ogling at our territoy). We are at the level of pakistan and will be reduced to level of bangladesh. History has prooved that weak alaways suffer.
As per arfgument about this agreement ..India never agreed for restriction on it's nuclear arsenals or testing. It has to be that way.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:13 PM Permalink
We are in demand for electricity, which world considers to produce cleaner ways!!! We consider others also take part in fulfilling our national demand for electricity!!! Not only Russia, US, but others who interest can contribute something for reducing our electricity problems!!!
But please don't tell India to throw away all the military, don't buy ships, don't test missiles, don't use Guns etc. As a soft nation, we love everybody, we expect full co-operation of NSG & US, China, France, Britan, Russia, Germany, Italy, Austrailia, Canada, Japan and all the nations help for our people to have better electricity w/o much power cuts.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by Arman on Apr 13, 2007 08:21 PM Permalink
Are you serious? So India gives up to outrageous US demands and rolls over and suddenly people in Mumbai and Delhi won't have power cuts. what horse shit. If only you knew that power cuts in Mumbai and Delhi are mostly due to problems in transmission rathar than production, you won't be writing such posts. Privatize power and see how many power plants show up in India, with or without so called US technology, which would never come anyway.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:22 PM Permalink
Is there any links in wikiepedia about power generation to show here. Yes or No? If Yes, why is it not shown here now?
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:21 PM Permalink
If you are weak w/o power (job), even your husband doesn't hesitate to stuff something in your mouth
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by prince prince on Apr 13, 2007 08:22 PM Permalink
amit do you realise that at the cost of your undisrupted power supply, India stands to loose alot in terms of security and development if India signs this N-deal. If power supply is the only problem for you then get a generator.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by amit on Apr 13, 2007 08:32 PM Permalink
No, its not about power supply at the cost of Security. Nobody is disallowing or capping military research and usage but can we today deveop even a reactor of 100 MW. Find out and even if we take 5-10 yrs to do so , it is like reinventing the wheel, wastage of precious resources. GET OUT OF NUKE CHUVANISM. Nobody is implying a cap on nuke programme but only advocating what is in our national interest.
RE:GOD ! give us some rationality
by Arman on Apr 13, 2007 08:42 PM Permalink
Amit writes "Nobody is implying a cap on nuke programme"
It is mostly about capping the nuclear program. IAEA chief El Bariedi has also said that it would help achieve non proliferation.
OK question, when was the last nuclear plant built in US? Also France produces 80% of power through nuclear energy. I understand your concern about lack of power in India but this deal has been distorted out of shape. Let India-US adhere to what was signed in the initial agreement. Move gradually, build confidence and trust, make reciprocal gestures in a phased manner.
I am afraid that if India falls into the trap that you suggest, she would have neither power nor security.
RE:[object]
by on Apr 13, 2007 08:24 PM Permalink
N-Deal is one of the good for producing more power. So, don't blame N-Deal. Only the problem is the extra demands in the Deal, we need to rectify by more talks.
If our arsenal is strong enough whole world will accept us as nuclear power (just like chinese did) so no question of shutting down nuclear weapons.
Why India will limit its nuclear arsenal development? Have we reached at the level of China? We would be fool to shut out China as no threat. Chinese ambassador sitting in India is claiming Indian Territory as Chinese. They have gobbled up Tibet and build train to Tibet (which has no meaning commercially), why?
Indian Govt. since beginning has stressed that this deal is purely for civilian stuff and will not stifle India%u2019s nuclear program. BUT NOW US IS CHANGING GOAL POST. IT is trying to get India commit to no test and enter into NPT /CTBT thru backdoor. RECOGNIZE INDIA as nuclear weapon state then India will enter from front door. Then India will have option to keep its nuclear arsenal and prevent bullies like china to force us.
RE:Changing Goal post by USA -INDIA should not give up it's rights as nuclear power - We do not need world to confer to us
by Sivakumar Periasamy on Apr 13, 2007 10:04 PM Permalink
U are right
Just like other nuke powers have attained a level where they don't need to do any more tests, why can India not attain the same level. If required, conduct more tests before signing the No-Test agreement. I don't think India needs to keep testing the nuke weapons. Build a weaponary now, and then sign the No-Test agreement. I had read that Indian scientits were very close to attaining that level of confidence.
This is what I am telling, we need everybody support at NSG!!! We are in demand for electricity, which world considers to produce cleaner ways!!! We consider others also take part in fulfilling our national demand for electricity!!! Not only Russia, US, but others who interest can contribute something for reducing our electricity problems!!!
But please don't tell India to throw away all the military, don't buy ships, don't test missiles, don't use Guns etc. As a soft nation, we love everybody, we expect full co-operation of NSG & US, China, France, Britan, Russia, Germany, Italy, Austrailia, Canada, Japan and all the nations help for our people to have better electricity w/o much power cuts.
