In countries like malaysia, reservations are given only to the Majorities (Muslims), the minorities (Hindus) never get any reservations. Why the HELL there should be any reservations for the minorities. If karunanidi wants to give reservations he can appoint them in his SUN TV organisation and other businesses, who the Hell he, to appoint in government sector. Because of politicains like his its a bad name for our TN
First let me ask a simple qustion. Are Muslims, Cristians are Backward?. For answering it we should use the deffinations of Backwardness given in constituation of India for determining the reservations: As per constituations of India and also defined time by time by SC- People who were depressed for centuries on the basis of cast system or any other social index, which GOI may deemed fit for that time are backward. So are Muslims, Cristians are Backward?. Are they were rulled or they were rullers. Its a open history, even nobody can chalange it in any court of world. from 14th century to 18th century muslims were lord of this land and since 16th century till 1947 they were sharing the power with cristians (assuming all the britisins are cristians). So were they depresed by other religions? (if to provide reservation on basis of religion) the Answer is the Big NO!. So why they have to be given the reservation, while calling them as Backward. Now people will tell that there are backward/Dalit people in Muslims and cristians community. What is the fact? as per the holy litrature of these religions and also it is accepted by all the Holy instituations of these religionas there are no seperation in term of cast. THERE IS NO CAST SYSTEMS IN Islam and Crsitiansim. So how come some of these people are calld backward/dalit. So how u can divide a unified religion in term of cast/or dalitness/Backwardness, whene there is none.
Now the Our so calld seccular leaders (Including Mr. Sarchar of SPC)will tell, look at the state of these people, why cant u see they are living in extream poverty, they dont have access to education/Jobs. I agree i can see it even with my close eyes. So i can also see the state of other 60 million people in india stugalling to get two time meals daily. So do u need to provide them reservations? The anaswer is again big NO. Give them food in place of silver spoon, which they cant use. Now again comming back to reservation. Yes people are poor, they cant afford the fees, they cant afford the IIT-JEE coaching classes (provided one has completed the PUC). So what is solution? The solution is mmake free education, provide scholeships. Give them resorces finacially, if they have tallent- with just little help they will come to the level of other so called upper class. But the govt cant do it- Look the state of TN- in place of giving the financial resources to people or for that matter providing the low cost/ proper power supply, the Givt of TN is giving the Free TV to people- Its a Little jok we used to tell between our circle- U go to Madras- There is no proper power, but the TN is giving the TV to Villages where there is no power line at all. So Lets first us make our system clear, what actually we want?, do we acctually want to elimanate poverty or we want to elimane poor. Its a open qustions to all who have to deal with public policies. Do u have any answer? If you have, come put it is this forum and let debet. What is the best options we have. Mr Karunanidhi You are also welcome along with all you may collect.
RE:Are Muslims, Cristians are Realy Backward?
by west on Apr 05, 2007 06:42 PM Permalink
Good argument. I'm with you. I'm just curious - are there reservations in the appointment of lawyers / judges ? If not, why the law also not strongly telling the politicians that what they are doing eventually leads to downfall of the country?
RE:Are Muslims, Cristians are Realy Backward?
by avi on Apr 05, 2007 07:05 PM Permalink
No there are no reservation in judical machinary yet. but some people allready asking for that, telling that SC is inferrior to there rights and so on... Lets hope, the Judicarry itself not put this social worm in itself.
RE:Are Muslims, Cristians are Realy Backward?
by Suresh Kumar on Apr 05, 2007 08:35 PM Permalink
Good Point.
I believe Christian missionaries attracted hindus by saying that christianity doesnt have caste system, so by converting to christians caste system will be destroyed. But lot Christians in Tamilnadu are still deep rooted with their castes, for example when they look marriage alliance they look based on caste. For example, Christian Pillai looks for alliance with another Christian Pillai. Now where does their principle go.
Reservation should be based on the family income and not based on the caste.
George W Bush yday has given an interview that he would like to have more SKILLED AND TALENTED indians in his country...he has doubled the H1-B visas... Karunanidhi..start giving reservation..BUSH HAS UNDERSTOOD THAT INDIAN DOESNT DESERVE TALENTED MINDS ANYMORE AND IS TRYING TO USE THEM..LET ALL THE BRAINY ONES PACK.. U SIT WITH YOUR RESERVATION..AND GOVT COMPANIES..NO PRODUCTION NO WORK AND NO PROFIT..BECOZ PPL WHOM U EMPLOY THRO THIS SHORTCUT OF RESERVATION HAVE NO BRAINS !!!
RE:BUSH RIVET TO KARUNANIDHI !!!!
by Anand Selot on Apr 05, 2007 06:29 PM Permalink
Hope you pack you bags soon. GOOD RIDDANCE OF BAD RUBBISH !!!!!!!!!!
Here is a guy who has been dividing the state for based on religion for the last 15 years. He is know for his caste based approach of running the government. The best part is he's been successfull. It's a political gimmick which never gets old. Our public is fooled everytime. Is there nothing that can be done? So the 27% quota is now going to become 35%. The man is taking the entire state for a ride.
RE:junta are fools
by Common Man on Apr 05, 2007 06:14 PM Permalink
The general public of India actually consists of fools. They have a long way to go to become capable of running a democracy. A powerful and sophisticated system like democracy in their hands is like loaded firearms in the hands of monkeys. We talk a lot about misuse of power by politicians. People supporting caste and religion based reservations are actually grossly misusing the power given to them by democracy.
What happens when a daily wage earner wins a free Merc in one of those "lucky draws"? The car may be free, but he does not have enough money to maintain a car like Merc. So after a few years the grand Merc's condition becomes that of an auto rickshaw!
RE:junta are fools
by GWB on Apr 05, 2007 06:32 PM Permalink
True in a way... Add to that religious and linguistic divisions even among the 'more sophisticated' people, no way democracy can work out... Democracy may have potential to work if it India becomes a collection of (number of languages x number of religions x number of castes) pieces, which is overseen by UNO military (USA China) for discipline and control purposes...
If all Hindus convert, by themselves or by force or with benefits in mind, to Christianity or Islam (other religions, hard luck, u won't benefit in the long term, no politician considers u important), who do u think Congress will go after? what abt Commies? and a renamed BJP with the same stalwarts? If u can ansr this question, u can prepare urself for a future in a glorious India...
If this happens quickly enough, karuna dude can get some sh1t in his face! Coz people wud say somebody reserved for all citizens, who's he cheating?!
RE:Denounce Caste
by m on Apr 06, 2007 01:32 AM Permalink
Too late now.
Cheat us once. Shame on you. Cheat us twice. Shame on us.
We are generously offering a separate statehood to upper caste/anti reservation people who are less than 10% of India. http://www.blogpoll.com/poll/view_Poll.php?type=java&poll_id=108166
RE:Denounce Caste
by rashmi sahu on Apr 05, 2007 05:29 PM Permalink
There is no body Brhjamin as brahmin means who seen braham.in present day very few yogis are called brahmin rest all are name sake. shudras mean who could not study or achieve in spite of given chances.However by hard work any body can become brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya as per vedas. Vedas say every body is equal however they can be categorasised as per the work which is interchangeable.
RE:RE:Denounce Caste
by on Apr 05, 2007 08:17 PM Permalink
Dear Ibrahim If your SC friend is more intelligent than Brahmins why not look for a match among his tribes or you can help him to get one from yours. Don't mistake me when I say this. I know there are good muslims too. I have seen Muslims very vociferopus when it comes to talking about equality or bashing other religions. How many of you come forward to cleanse your Islam and the way it is practised now. How many movies Shah Rukh / Aamir / Saif / Salman have acted that takes issues with Islam. I am sure you will be ceremoniously listening to Friday sermons in Mosques. Did you or any one oppose / differ the obvious wrong ideas propagated there. If you or many among your community have done that, there will be atleast one secular nation in Middle East.
RE:Denounce Caste
by Ibrahim Sheik on Apr 05, 2007 05:42 PM Permalink
Is it Mr. Rashmi, I Have some SC friends who are more brainy than Brahmins can you find a Right Match for these Boys in Brahmin community. These guys are desperate to marry brahmin girls, can you show the equality in a Practical way, rather than writing poetic words
RE:Denounce Caste
by bala sreenivasan on Apr 06, 2007 07:12 PM Permalink
Ibrahim, thank Allah that you offered this suggestion to Brahmins. Had you asked any other community to marry off their women to SC/ST men, you would have already reached Allah. If you have any intentions of dragging womenfolk from any other caste, do not reveal your personal details like full address, phone number etc.
RE:Denounce Caste
by on Apr 05, 2007 06:15 PM Permalink
Mr. Ibrahim is not talking about reservation. He is taking about, practice of cast in social system. There should not be any cast based social practices. The cast system will die its natural death (Reservation will end).
RE:Denounce Caste
by GWB on Apr 05, 2007 06:27 PM Permalink
U mean in the context of intercast/ inter religion marriages etc? yep, if it happens by free will, the stains of cast can vanish... But what will the leaders discuss on and legislate afterwards? It is not in the self interest of politicians to permit such things to happen... So they will not let caste system die and end reservation... So no point in thinking in this direction...
RE:Denounce Caste
by vijay baskar on Apr 05, 2007 05:48 PM Permalink
Mr.Ibrahim, When ur SC ST frds are so that intelligent they will obviously be getting a seat in IIT and IIM..i am a brahmin and i i agree that all caste ppl have equal brain but how they utilize is what matters... How come ur SC ST frds are intelligent ? If they are like others here asking for reservation based on their caste they cudnt have reached heights in career... MY QUESTION IS WHEN TALENTED PPL IN SC ST ARE ALSO TREATED EQUALLY TO BRAHMINS BY IIT AND IIM WHY THE HECK RESERVATION IS NEEDED ?
Your idea of bringing about equality through brahmin-centric inter-caste marriage reveals your sick mindset. Marraige is a different issue and you should know it is not easy to forge matrimonial alliances even among the sub-sects of Brahmins just as distinctive and strong the dividingline between Ahmadiyas, Shias and Sunnis are. Your concept is in line with the indecent, venomous and uncivilized graffitti by the followers of EV Ramasamy Naicker erroneously hailed as 'Periyar'- "Paapathiyai podu udmayakku!" meaning 'Make the Brahmin lady a public property!" This is what is being peddled in Tamil Nadu as euqlity and social justice! What a shame!!
RE:Denounce Caste
by Anand Selot on Apr 05, 2007 06:43 PM Permalink
Bala srinivasan & vijay baskar have still not answered the million $ question. will these brahmins who want to do away with the caste system ALLOW THEIR WOMEN TO MARRY A SC,ST MAN if he is as educated as them & has graduated from IIT,IIms AIIMS ? ANSWER HIM & DON'T BEAT ROUND THE BUSH. the whole country is eagerly awaiting the answer .
RE:Denounce Caste
by Sivaraman Gopalan on Apr 06, 2007 03:35 PM Permalink
Anand Selot, Marraige is not as simple as you think. Here is an interesting anecdote. A scruffy and ugly looking comedian of Tamil cinema who belongs to the same caste of a leading TN political leader once approached him with an alliance proposal for his (comedian's)brother with the urbane, articualte and English-speaking daughter of the politician. Interestingly the daughter was born of a clandestine relationship (later legitimised) the politician had with a lady belonging to a powerful BC sect in the southern district.
So enraged was the politician, he threw the actor out of his home and ordered demolition of the actor's studio! The actor and the politician belonged to the same sect. Yet, the politician did not deem the actor's brother fit to be a good match. Marraige is a very sensitive issue even within one's own community and personal habits, hygiene and other issues do count; can't be wished away! Further to show I am not a casteist, should I allow my women to sleep with an SC/ST man? I can help him overcome his social handicap and treat him with dignity but certainly not forge matrimonial ties. I am curious to know why you have not spoken about Brahmin men marrying SC/ST girls.
RE:Denounce Caste
by bala sreenivasan on Apr 06, 2007 12:33 PM Permalink
Anand Selot, just to prove I believe in equality I need not stand by the road and solicit alliance from SCs & STs for our women or make them available so that they can settle scores for the historic wrongs. I wonder why you never raised the question whether Brahmin men would be willing to marry women from SC/ST sections and are focussing only on Brahmin women. Once again, you are displaying your spite and venom against a community and not your zest for equality! My identity comes from my caste and the social customs (sans untouchability and such retrogressive practices), personal habits, hygiene and discipline etc. that go with it. IT does not mean I am going to discriminate or be disdainful of people from other castes. I do not see any dichotomy here. By being less Brahminical, I am not going to be more egalitarian and certainly not to please a group of misguided people full of contempt for Hindu religion and Brahmins. Is it clear, friend?
RE:Denounce Caste
by Anand Selot on Apr 05, 2007 06:36 PM Permalink
Baskar you still havent replied to Ibrahims question. Will you allow brahmin girls to marry sc & st guys who come out of IIT,Aiims etc on their own merit ? Answer him & othrs too who are eager to know .
RE:
by KVS SAMBAMURTHY on Apr 06, 2007 04:28 PM Permalink
Mr.Anand Selot Why should the Brahmin girls marry the SC/ST man? Go and ask the brillient(cunning) and wealthy politicians(CM may provide with one or two), who gave opportunity to SC/SC guys thro reservations to enter the IIT/IIM, to marry their girls to these SC/ST guys. Do u hv guts to ask. If u don't pls shut-up.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Krishnan on Apr 05, 2007 07:01 PM Permalink
personally many people do not have a problem. how is reservation going to come there? do you think you are displaying your intelligence by linking these? you at least need reservation i think.
RE:[object]
by on Apr 05, 2007 06:19 PM Permalink
Mr.Ibrahim is not asking for reservation(for that matter Reservation has to end). He is just mentioning about the inherent cast based practices in our society. He is just mentioning the reallity.
RE:Denounce Caste
by Krishnan on Apr 05, 2007 07:00 PM Permalink
sheik, can you marry some arab or ethiopian muslim? these are different from jobs & education and that is what the noise is about. we dont mind social reformers but technology should be in the hands of capable. dont get oversmart & dont interfere. look ot for some shia/sunni to fight with.
RE:Denounce Caste
by GWB on Apr 05, 2007 06:12 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Ibrahim Wonder where marriage and matches came from when the topic is reservation in education... But u do raise an interesting possibility for politicians to extend reservation... Y can't they have reservation in the marriage market? For simplicity if FC is 10%, SC & ST is 25% and the remaining are all OBCs, government shd say, no caste shd marry within itself... So no FC-FC marriage, no SC-SC marriage etc... Since a lower caste can be subject to harassment in the in laws place, all married couple shd stay away frm their parents familty.. Politicians can visualise, this can eliminate caste based problems in 2 generations!! A few people may die in the process, but that's what revolutions are made of! This way ur SC friend can marry an FC (brahmin bride) or even an OBC lady... more choice... Don's ask me how numbers will tally... Politicians don't thnk abt all those small stuff..
