I couldnt agree more with you, I also dont like modi, if I could, and I would have put him in jail for rest of his life for what he allowed to happen in Gujarat. But because he is so called evil, we cant get a third party and get justice for the people of Gujarat, thats completely antinational. Today because some lobbying done by some stupid in USA they have denied visa to Modi, imagine a case US denying a Visa to President Kalam, because they feel he helped India develop Nuclear weapon when it was not supposed to!!. Also involving USA to do this only means we have no trust in Indian constitution or Indian courts, which is the height of antinationalism. What has happened now has a very similar parallel in our history, twice when we involved outsiders in our own fight, they ended up ruling us, once it was done by Jaichand to fight with Prithvi Raj Chauhan and other time was to invite babar to defeat the king in Delhi, and rest we all know what has happened after that.So guys, it is good to be antimodi, but I suggest you dont close your eyes for nationalism by using antimodi tape. So dont take pride in US denying Visa to him. Let the good sense prevail
RE:Well Said.
by communalism_combat on Mar 22, 2005 11:21 PM Permalink
Himanshu, doesn't an independant country have the right to decide who enters the nation or not. The US has made it's decision and this has nothing to do with India. This does not say anything about India. It is a statement against Modi. Anybody can be elected to power. Don't forget Hitler too came to power through democratic means (elections) and like Modi Hitler too enjoyed the popular support of his people. This does not make what Modi did right. Thousands of people have their visa's rejected. Why is this so different. Why is Modi special.
It is always very refreshing to read your articles. It includes lot of facts and sometimes a complete wrong conclusion drawn from it! After reading this article I scratched my head and screamed, what happened to the article I thought I was reading! This is like a perfect figure skater on ice suddenly launches herself in a tangent when people were least expecting it! You think this incidence has defamed India!! You have no idea then how much defamation was caused by the riots in Gujarat itself! Here I think exactly why the external intelligence kinds need to spend long parts of their life outside India before they can join such a job. You have no idea about the betrayal of Indians all over the world who believes in protection of every citizens right in India. You yourself followed the statements made by Modi. You will see that he has the arrogance of any corrupt or fanatics in Indian politics: he does not even think that Indian legal system could ever touch him! Where is the accountability that calls for justice without calling all NRI's anti-Hindu and unpatriotic!
RE:Cry India! She is crying...
by SChaudhuri on Mar 23, 2005 08:57 PM Permalink
Why you care about Modi's right to a visa! Do you even know why a visa is granted! A visa is not a right but people of India irrespective of their belief, origin, caste has the right to be protected by highest elected officials. Loss of innocent's life need not be accepted without delevering justice to ALL the people concerned. Democracy does not win if you shelter/justify actions of a person with enormous power to stop such injustice just because he's a Gujarati or part of your political/religious belief system. US has every right to deny Modi visa as we have the right to deny visa based on a well laid out principles. I objected to the generalizations made by Mr. Raman. He has not got the US side of the facts right. In fact, he needs to name the names of Indian American lobby who tried to pass this decision. All I am saying, as a logical person, you lay concreate facts before jumping to cheap but popular diatribe. He can be better than that with years of experience on how governments abroad works. If he thinks Indian lobby is this strong in US, he's dreaming! There's more to it which may include us not backing down from India-Iran pipeline, Condoleeza Rice's visit and other things
RE:Cry India! She is crying...
by Indian on Mar 24, 2005 02:17 AM Permalink
I think Mr. Chaudhuri was right in pointing out how incomparable a US visa denial and a genocide are in bringing about defamation to mother India. Every riot is a shame, but a meager visa denial can never be as painful as mass murder from a riot, speak about apples and oranges.
If one Indian stabs another Indian in the back with the help of a state government machinery, he is considered a patriot, a nationalist, a true Indian. And when such euphysms are used to describe a visa denial over an actual genocide, cry, the beloved country!
RE:Cry India! She is crying...
by suri on Mar 22, 2005 07:04 PM Permalink
This is a typical reply of the chaps who have either blindly made up their minds and 'judged' and 'sentenced' one side or are obviously biased like many of the 'succulars' sound.
It is bullshit to say that ONLY these Gujarat riots defamed India. Every riot is a shame. But, there has never ever been such ochestration or opinion before. Such loud and unabated, planned are manipulated shouting of the same anti-Modi thing non stop. Why?
I think it is simply because the BJP and RSS and the lot care too much about India to criticise Rajive Gandhi or Nehru or others even if it gets India a bad name. And, the 'succulars' hate the BJP and gand because it is the only grouping that makes people seriously doubt the biased bullshit they have been spouting.
RE:Cry India! She is crying...
by Manoj on Mar 22, 2005 12:55 PM Permalink
Mr Chaudhary, on what gorund you think US is doing its act> such as IRAQ, IRAN, KORIA...and now Arm sales to Libiya on the head of North Koria though it was done by their TRUSTED ally PAK!..so please do not teach us lession on liberty. HINDUS across gloab has been treated badly cause we can never stand untied on any front still we have never shown agression in our entire history..and the same has been exploited in full..have you seen GODHRA TRAIN when it was buring? why the popel of GODHRA fought with police who came to capture the cupplrits? there can be thousands question on this and one of them could be that the riots were wrong...yes stand alone they were wrong but then there could be thousand reason to justify them also....
Excellent article.. it's an eye opener for all those so called fundamentalits..secularists.. Author should have discussed atrocities gainst hindus in kashmir also...
Your logic does not make any sense. US do not really care but it was Hindu party of India play major roll. I am Gujarati but against Modis act. He deserve to be punish and humiliated for all he did for my Gujarat.
RE:Not Agree with your logic
by Anurag on Mar 22, 2005 09:26 PM Permalink
Either you were not able to understand the article or you are not ready to accept the facts presented by the aurhor. Do u also hate Rajiv Gandhi, Indira Giadhi, PV Narsimha Rao etc?
RE:Not Agree with your logic
by mankax on Mar 23, 2005 10:29 AM Permalink
stop masquerading as a gujarati! Most of the gujarati feel very strongly about the denial of visa to modi. You wouldn't get a able leader, adminstrator and politician than modi. Whats wrong if he espouses his hindu beliefs? Too bad the progressive secularists cannot swallow it!
The US allows many anti-democratic, anti-secular individuals and country representatives into their country. Modi at least is a democratically elected leader, and whatever you may say about Modi, he has *not* suppressed religious freedom, nor democracy. if voted out of office, he will leave it, unlike the dictatorships the Americans so happily hob-knob with.
RE:Not Agree with your logic
by S on Mar 22, 2005 11:20 AM Permalink
I think you are a blotch on the Gujratis - who always takes pride in being patriotic. It b'cos of you people only the outsiders can play with our system and sentiments. I think you should also be sent to Kashmir to see the carnage there and the plight of Hindus. Nobody even cared about them - they are put to refugee camps in their own country. I think the time has come when Hindus should ne awake and torn the real faces under these "so-called" secularists.
By chance, I read your article titled "Modi's visa denial: Who did it?". Its an excellent article which clearly states the pros and cons of an issue by illustrating solid facts and presenting them in an unbiased fashion.
RE:Excellent article Raman!!
by communalism_combat on Mar 22, 2005 11:26 PM Permalink
'unbiased fashion' !!! Did you read his article. He sounded like a card carrying member of the RSS and you call him unbiased.
I personally feel the biggest enemy of a Hindu is a fellow Hindu.
Our history is replete with instances of Hindu kings helping foreign invaders in humiliate a neighbouring Hindu king to get even with him. Never mind if they themselves suffered from this policy (taking help from an enemy to humiliate ones neighbour) in the long run. Also we have never got over our caste obsession after so many years. It is not difficult to imagine why India remained ghulam for hundreds of years.
Hindus have also learnt nothing from partitionAny man who talks of Hindu pride and respect and can stand up for Hindus has to be humiliated to teach him/her a lesson. If in the process, these so called liberals (liberals in India being people who criticise any person who talks of restoring pride of Hindus.any such person is immediately dubbed as an extremist right wing Hindu by this so called liberal brigade) hurt the interest and pride of the community and country in the long run, so be it as far as these so called liberals are concerned.
All I can say is no one will respect us (Hindus) before we start respecting ourselves and respecting our fellow Hindus.
Hi, The US has not held Modi responsible for violation of human rights nor has it alleged anything against him. the US has maintained that it has gone by the findings in the National Human Rights Commission report on the incidents in Gujarat. it is only a matter of the policies of a country that is not ours and they have every right to change it by their whims and fancies. it would not be right to say they have never denied a visa to Nehru, Indira Gandhi,etc and hence they should not have denied it for Modi. If Modi was to visit the US on government buisness and the US had denied him a visa, we could then hold it an insult to the position of Chief Minister of an Indian state, and thus an insult to India. In this case, if anything at all, we could hold it a personal insult to Modi. I personally feel we should see too much into that. Regards, Praveen.
I was amazed to see the number of times the author mentioned "We didnt think of getting assitance of a foreign power to control our leaders, that would have been anti-national". Well, the author should rise to the new world (dis)order. This is the effect of globalization. Our national leaders have answerable not only to the people who vote for them but also to the shareholders of the emerging market equity funds who invest , leading to high FDIs and economic boom, currently experienced by India. Will buring down a PepsiCo plant as a vengeance for denail of Modi's visa lead to any loss of any American. Well, S&P and Moody's will consider all of these factors as soveriegn risk and investing communities will demand risk premium for it. If rioting Hindu lunatics dont behave then all investment will goto other deserving East Asian countries where riots are not a once a year phenomena.
The bottom line is that modern warfare is economic and Indian leaders are answerable to the world and the new globalized world has the right to intervene in domestic matters. Sovereignity is a myth.
Hi!, Let me get to the point straight. It is the idea of time. How is it related to this Modi's denial to US visa. Well, it is in many ways. First, a correct action, simply because it was not taken against everyone, need not become a wrong action. There can be many reasons, but essentially it is about level of awareness and development of people. In realm of crime, there are always some who get away. This does not mean, those who are caught should be let away. Second, Modi is different from the earlier ones. If someone has problems in seeing that, it says a lot about that individual. The point is not just religious fanaticism but intolerance at its extreme. Third, please do not breed the idea of excessive nationalism. It can be dangerous to the extreme as seen in the case of pre-war Japan. Contributing to nation because one feels for the people living over there is different from just being proud about being an Indian. Also because, national boundaries have changed and will continue to do so. In such cases, it is only people with too high a tone of nationalism who end being fanatics.
