First, let us analyze what exactly this so-called Haj subsidy entails. An Indian Muslim, who chooses to go to Haj through government run Haj committees, gets a subsidy of around Rs. 20,000 on their Air India ticket of Rs. 32,000. That is it ! The minimum cost of a Haj package through the Haj committees is around Rs. 92,000, of which Rs. 20,000 is paid by the Indian government to Air India as a subsidy on the Hajis ticket. The total Haj airline ticket subsidy was around Rs. 150 crore for the year 2001 and has been enmarked to Rs. 225 crores for the year 2005. It is interesting to note that the normal ticket to Saudi Arabia costs around Rs. 25,000 but Air India charges Rs. 34,000 from the Hajis. So, effectively the government is giving a subsidy of Rs. 12,000 only ! The Sangh Parivar zealots make is sound like that the Indian government sponspors an Annual-Go-To-Haj trip for anyone who is interested. Why this is such a big issue for them? I don’t think the amount involved (Rs. 225 crores) is the itching factor. They are more piqued at the fact that it allows Muslims to go to Mecca and Medina, their holy cities which are outside India, out there is some land called Arabia. The usual argument of these fanatics is that India and India alone should be the pitrabhuumi (fatherland) and punyabhuumi (holyland) of all Indians and since the holy places of Muslims and Christians are elsewhere, they can never be patriotic enough. This argument would have been plain ridiculous had it n
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by kameena on Jul 02, 2008 03:06 PM Permalink
tell me another country (western or european) which grants such amnesty to muslims... 225 crores can be spent on opening 250 primary schools which can make another 25000 indians educated rather then sending the traitors to their so called holi land which teaches them to hate other religions and kill people..
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:27 PM Permalink
So in the same tone. ALL PUSHKAR and OTHER HINDU FESTIVALS WILL ALSO NOT GET any INDIAN GOVT. BENEFITS!!!
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY GOVT SPENDS FOR PUSHKAR FESTIVITIES IS ASTONISHING!!!
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Faris on Jul 02, 2008 03:09 PM Permalink
Let all types of Government funding should be stopped, whether it's being direct or indirect, whether for Hindus or for muslims. No relegious rituals in any governemnet institutions/ academic institution. Will the fanatics hindus agree with this?
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Abhishek Agiwal on Jul 02, 2008 03:14 PM Permalink
if Hindus were truly fanatic Faris you wudnt have survived alongwith your religion for such a long time.....
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:28 PM Permalink
IF MUSLIMS WERE FANATICS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE RAISED THIS VOICE HERE NOW! INDIA WAS RULED BY MUSLIMS KINGS FOR 1000s of YEARS! INDA WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AN HINDU MAJORITY NATION!
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by rajarshi banerjee on Jul 02, 2008 03:24 PM Permalink
Its not a question of places being outside India. Don't try and twist things to your own convinience. Its not at all whether some one from US visits Somnath or someone from Russia visits Mount Arara or some Israeli visiting Jerusalem. WHY DO MUSLIMS NEED A SUBSIDY IN THE FIRST PLACE when no other community going anywhere in the world for pilgrimage is provided the same privilege? Do christians ask for it if they to visit Rome? Do Parsis ask for a single rupee to visit Persia? Do Jains or Buddhists or China or Japan ask from their government if they have to visit Gaya or Lumbinigram? Do Sikhs get anything for visiting Nankana Sahib in Pakistan? SO thats the point its not outside or inside India or 225 crores amount....the question is WHY A SUBSIDY for one community????
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:33 PM Permalink
WHAT DID YOU READ ABOVE?
GOVT PROVIDES SUSBSIDIED TICKETS FOR TRAVEL BY INDIAN AIRLINE!!! A GOVT OWNED CARRIER!!! EVERY COMPANY TO MAKE BUSINESS EVERY NOE N THEN PROVIDES SUCH SUBSIDIES TO CAPITALIZE ON THE MARKET SHARE!!! PLAIN N SIMPLE! THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE TRAVELLING AROUND THE SAME TIME IN ON E YEAR TO A SAME PLACE IS INDUCEMENT ENOUGH FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TAP THIS! IF THE GOVT CARRIER DOESNOT DO IT; SOME OTHER PRIVATE CARRIER WILL DO IT! INFACT PRIVATE TOUR OPERATORS DO IT MORE PROFESSIONALLY AND AT A CHEAPER THE PRICE!
RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:37 PM Permalink
IF CHRISTIANS STARTED TRAVELLING TO VATICAN IN SUCH HUGE NUMBERS IT WILL BE PROFITABLE FOR GOVT TO GIVE THEM SUBSIDY. SO IS TRUE FOR SIKHS AND HINDUS TOO. BTW HINDUS GET MUCH MUCH MORE THAN WHAT YOU ARE SHOUTING AT!!! THE ARRANGEMENTS GOVTS MAKE FOR HINDU FESTIVITIES OF PUSHKAR AND OTHER AREAS WHERE PPL TRAVEL IS UN_IMAGINEABLE!
I AM IN FAVOUR OF MUSLIMS THEMSELVES REJECTING TO TRAVEL BY AIR INDIA TO HAJJ! THIS WILL OFCOURSE BE A LOSS TO THE GOVT OF INDIA & AIR INDIA IN PARTICULAR BUT ATLEAST FANATICS CANNOT USE THIS AS A PROPAGANDA! ITS TIME MUSLIMS WISED UP!
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by amit mishra on Jul 02, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
this is not only about arguments, this is questions of Hindus faith towards their holy places and pilgrims ,were they got attacked and humiliated by Parties of J&K.and why always hindus keep silence and not need to reply of all this act .
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:02 PM Permalink
This argument would have been plain ridiculous had it not been so malevolent. So, what they are trying to say is that a Hindu born and brought up in USA can not be patriotic enough to USA, if he chooses to visit the Somnath mandir in India as a pilgrim. A Swede, who converts to Hinduism, can not be loyal to Sweden if he scouts Mathura and Varanasi in search of spiritual salvation. The patriotism of all Sikhs who visit Nankana sahab in Pakistan is somehow suspect and all Hindus who undergo the arduous Kailash Mansarovar pilgrimage can not be termed Indians anymore because that site is under Chinese dominion. Welcome to Ram Rajya 2.0, as espoused by a few hate mongers. But then, these gentlemen hardly talk or understand a five lettered word, ’sense’. We would let them go for the time being.
Coming back to the Haj subsidy, Haj is obligatory only on those who are physically and financially capable of performing the journey. So, all the expenses should be incurred by the Hajis himself and the government should not pay any part of that. Fair enough. But is the government actually providing any financial support to the Hajis? I don’t think so. The government is only subsidising their air tickets because the airlines they are travelling with belongs to the government.
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:03 PM Permalink
In other words it is a discount on an overpriced product. There are many companies that provide discounts to their regular users. What we fail to appreciate is that these Hajis are providing atleast 84 crores as revenue to Air India per year, year after year for the pathetic service they receive in return. Is it merely a rumour that the worst Air India carriers are employed by Air India for the Haj travel? Last year, on its way back, one of the Air India plane broke down. It has to be grounded in Sharjah for a full night. The Hajis were told that they would have to spend the entire night in the plane. Customer service anyone? After protests from the passengers, Air India finally relented and issued boarding passes to the passengers. Which traveller in his right mind would prefer travelling with Air India with so many airlines providing world-class service at comptetitive rates, nowadays?
More than 1,20,000 Indians went for Haj in the year 2001. That is a big big number and the that too within a specific time schedule. Out of these, around 50,000 chose to go with private tour operators. Why? Because there are many private tour operators that offer Haj packages for as low as Rs. 68,000, without any government subsidy (yes, the government gives subsidy only on the Air India ticket, not to the Hajis per se).
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Annu Malik on Jul 02, 2008 03:08 PM Permalink
asheesh thank for public admission that you are an IDIOT who DONT have reading comprehension skills. Congratulation !
no wonder all you could say is blah blah ! F moron
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Asheesh on Jul 02, 2008 03:12 PM Permalink
hmmm.... Great that you are a scholar, reading even my blah blahs.... Well do you have any idea what we less intellectual ones calls "blah".. Its something irrelevant, and just plain stupid. I hate to disappoint you , but I read his "informative report", and I still find haj subsidy an overhead, and bias against other religions...and hence these are BLAHs for me..... Well, what do we lesser ones know... Thy art the supreme one
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by All Right on Jul 02, 2008 03:10 PM Permalink
:-) Annu bhai... go back to your plagiarism... that suits you better...
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by RRAMESH on Jul 02, 2008 03:21 PM Permalink
Dear Imam, All muslims in In dia ,includind kashmiri muslims were once hindus only,but converted to islam due to coercion or inducement.Once every muslim understand this ,he will stop this fanatism.Such a muslim will sooner or later come back to hindu fold.This is only way we can prevent terrorism in India
RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:04 PM Permalink
What does that tells us? Let me make a guess, these tour operators are more efficient?
So, the goverment of India, in order to cover for their awful management of Air India, to hold on to a constant (and unquestioning) source of revenue (year, after year) want Indian Muslims to believe that it is doing a lot of favour by doling out some subsidy on an overpriced air ticket.
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Money tvs on Jul 02, 2008 03:11 PM Permalink
Imaan don't be so thankless. Have some feeling of gratitude for what the Indian government is doing for you. It's exactly this kind of ungreatfulness that really piques people from other religions, You get everything you want and still you are not satisfied and try to pick holes in it. Never look a gift horse in the mouth
RE:RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:08 PM Permalink
The bottomline is this, Indian Muslims should reject the subsidized Air India ticket, if not for anything else then for common sense only. Once the Haj market opens and this forced monopoly of Air India goes, I would not be surprised if other airlines start offering discounts to the Hajis. Afterall, which company wouldn’t want to tap in an yearly market in excess of Rs. 350 crores, and that too, just for the airfare.
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by srinivasreddy thadwai on Jul 02, 2008 03:21 PM Permalink
why should a secular govt sposer one religion vavour, this is simple. if you want to go to Haj no probs. just go with your own money, if Air India is expensive pls travel in other airlines , why should Govt give subsidy from tax payer's money . There are so many other issues and places where we need to invest money for country development. Hindus are loosing their patience , The JK GOVT after transferring the land again revoked only to satisfy the Muslims this is very shame..Kashmir is not belongs to Muslims it is also Kasmiri pandits and the Govt should allow to repect their feelings.The separatists propaganda is totally untrue that if the land is given to Shrine board hindus will settle and change the geographic of Kashmir..How many Hindus will stay in theses land ...It will be used as permanent structure for pilgrims.. and the separatist in kasmir wnats indian subsidies, food, every thing but they are not intending to respect other religion of their own state... which is shame...not even any other Islamic scholor from other parts of India are not talking about the land allotment and the unfairness of separatist.. so how long these minority people wants the majority people to keep quite... there is limit for patience.. once it is finished then no one can stop the future frustation of the majority people All these psedo secularists parties are just thinking about vote bank politics no one is caring about the sentiments of majority people but the final vicory is hindus.REDDY
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:46 PM Permalink
You Know what! Ask your Govt. to hold a REFERENDUM in Kashmir according to UN Resolution of 1972 and then shout bla bla bla!
Kashmiris dont want to be part of India!!! Govt of India Knows it!!! 'Ksshmir has a special status under article 370 of INDIAN CONSTITUTION!
And then ask then if they want INDIAN SUBSIDIES or not! Why ask Indian Muslims for it? How are we responsible for what hapeening in Kashmir?
What have I or for that matter anyone else in India done for it! Your RHETORIC will not help stop this problem! Common Sense will!
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:49 PM Permalink
You could have asked for it! The BJP was in POWER for the TIME INDIA WAS SHINNING! 1000 CRORES ON INDIA SHINNING CAMPAIGN COULD INDEED HAVE HELPED HINDUS IN A LOT OF OTHER THINGS!
POVERTY ALLEVIATION; EDUCATION; MEDICAL INSURANCE; HOSPITALS; EMPLOYMENT- WHAT NOT!
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by sonal gupta on Jul 02, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
Unbelievable but true. Thanks bro for bringing this info to us... All I can say is that no religion wants blood and hatered.. its the politicians which use the religious emotions for thier own benefits. Current lot of politicans is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than Britishers...
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:24 PM Permalink
WHO IS AKING YOU TO TOLERATE! ITS GOVERNMENTS LOSS INFACT MUSLIMS ARE FOOLS WHO TRAVEL BY AIR INDIA AS THE SUBSIDY IS FOR AIR INDIA TRAVEL ONLY: MANY PRIVATE OPERATORS PRICE IS MUCH LESS.
So out of 125000 TRAVELLING ANNUALLY only 25000-50000 ACTUALLY AVAIL THIS FACILITY! AND IT IS FOOLISHNESS ON PART OF MUSLIMS TO TRAVEL BY AIR INDIA!!! If you dont travel by AIR INDIA there is no Subsidy!!! Plain Simple.
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by drax on Jul 02, 2008 03:43 PM Permalink
DO THAT FIRST BEFORE BARKING. DONT LET GOVT OF INDIA TO SUBSIDISE YOUR PILGRIMAGE AT TAXPAYERS EXPENSE.
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Madurai SatheeshKumar on Jul 02, 2008 03:08 PM Permalink
Hi Imaan How could you justify the J & K govt's action of revoking the land transfer order?
Would thay have done that had that been a muslim / christian shrine? think about it...
I oppose any move to destroy nature, but then for pilgrims they have to have some shelter.
I am sure there would have been many such piece of land donated for muslim shrines in kashmir. Why no protests in those situations by kashmiris?
And, remember hindus are in these kind of situation only bcoz they are patient and have much of tolerance. I am not saying that they should start protests & go on rampaging property etc...
But then, will that not be a possible reaction if issues like this land transfer are dealt this way?
RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
The Shrine ITSELF was DISCOVERED by MUSLIMS!!!
MUSLIMS BENEFIT FROM HINDUS TRAVELLING THERE ECONOMICALY!!! NO MUSLIM IN 60 years from the valley has called to BAN the YATRA!!!
Its a souce of reverence to HINDUS, so be it although it is nothing more than Stalagmite. But I accept it as it is for the Hindus!
But Kashmir is a disputed territory and that is a fact!!! Article 370 guarantees Kashmir its special autonomous status and under this No land can be brought by outsiders!
A Kashmiri Girl marrying a muslim guy residing in India loses her right to her PROPERTY according to such a law and same is true in converse! It applies to Kashmiri Hindus also. Law of the land must be respected. After all its Indian Law!!!
Now coming to Land Transfer. Its pure Greed here. SASB wants to cater to the needs of the travellers for pure ECONOMICS!!! Its not for Hindu welfare or sentiments as this should not even come to mind as the YATRAS have not been stopped. Kashmiris still welcome and infact benefit from it. SASB will have monopoly over it after the land transfer and facilities built over it. Its is common sense that no one wants to loose his business.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:21 PM Permalink
INDIA provides no SUBSIDY to MUSLIMS for going to HAJJ!
ITS A PURE BUSINESS TACTICS. AIR INDIA GETS ANNUAL PROFIT OF AROUND 84-100 CRORES by ANNUAL HAJJ PILGRIMAGGE WHICH CAN BE COMPLETED BY TAKING A PRIVATE TOUR OPERATOR SERVICE FOR AS LESS AS 60000 INDIAN RUPEES!
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by drax on Jul 02, 2008 03:06 PM Permalink
So idiot dont accept the subsidy then.Why dont Muslims simply reject it. The truth of course is different.
RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Dheeraj Suvarna on Jul 02, 2008 03:13 PM Permalink
drax, You have shown your blood by writing Idiot. How dirty blood you have and such a third class you are.
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by drax on Jul 02, 2008 03:28 PM Permalink
Idiot, responses depend on the kind of messages. I am not a fool like you to post sense to nonsense.
RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by Imaan on Jul 02, 2008 03:09 PM Permalink
The bottomline is this, Indian Muslims should reject the subsidized Air India ticket, if not for anything else then for common sense only. Once the Haj market opens and this forced monopoly of Air India goes, I would not be surprised if other airlines start offering discounts to the Hajis. Afterall, which company wouldn’t want to tap in an yearly market in excess of Rs. 350 crores, and that too, just for the airfare.
RE:RE:RE:Fools! Must Know for Muslims
by All Right on Jul 02, 2008 03:11 PM Permalink
Yeah... it proves that basically muslims are not a bright lot.... paying unnecessarily high prices...
