Americans never think about anything but their self interests. They want a deterrence against China, where they want to use us as a pawn, and secondly they want a country who could buy all their reactors, at the same time bringing our systems under their influence. We need to tread very carefully. We need to retain at all costs, the ability to make a dozen bombs every year, at the same time bring in new plants to produce power.
RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Silly on Mar 18, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
I wonder why US would need India for that ? US in itself has formidable military strength.
As far as US Vs. China is concerned, both the economies are so heavily dependent on each other, that they cannot afford any confrontation.
RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:05 AM Permalink
Exactly my point too guys. Why would they form an axis with us and help us if China attacks us someday? We cant trust them with any axis that Kutta was suggesting...Get a better name buddy! Dont want to abuse ya...:)
RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 12:19 AM Permalink
There is difference between a totalitarian alliances like USA-Japan defense pact or US-Europe NATO alliance (U attack tiny country in Europe like Holland for example and whole might of USA plus Europe defend it) and COOPERATION.
India can COOPERATE with USA to build up it own defences.
RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:32 AM Permalink
Japan and South Korea are good examples. These countries had been asked to kneel down in front of US, they did. US invested so much capital in these countries that they are where they stand today.
It does make sense to make military deals with Israel and USA, instead of relying entirely on Russia. Even diplomatically, closer ties with US is going to take India further as an economy. It also guarantees that China and Pakistan mind their business..
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by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:48 AM Permalink
China has done nothing of that sort, and it is gonna be a bigger economy than the US by 2040. We in India dont have to resort to what the Koreans and Japs did. We can reach there in our own way!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:53 AM Permalink
Ok you guys have 35 years more to say that and counting. What I am talking is simple common sense man. You are saying face to face services wont be affected. When half the jobs over the period of next few decades have gone away from US, how will any of you pay for the services. The big Per capita income that you talked about, will actually start stagnating and will decline after 40 years... Then where will you guys go? Your economy can only survive as long as you still retain leadership in Manufacturing. Coz Manufacturing provides jobs, but in next few decades your high labour costs will drive everything out to India / China. No Jobs = No fancy cars, Healthcare and fancy 90$ taxi rides. Now accept that, get a better education and let me say good night
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:45 AM Permalink
Your pro-China rhetoric is now making no sense.
China has not even ONE WORLD CLASS technology or world leadership in a single field.
They have NOT been even able to built a top class fighter aircraft till date despite trying for 20 years.
US and Europe dominate world patents and new inventions and also fresh new killer things like Internet, etc.
What makes u think suddenly Chinese will becomes geniues in inventing.
It is techologies that will still keep west on the top.
USA has won 270 nobel prizes alone. UK 100. China 3.
75% of world's key inventions like automobile, aeroplanes, railways, missile technologies, rocket science, electronics, molecular biology, biotechnology have come from USA and EUROPE.
What makes you think that China will come even close ?
Wht makes you think that europeans or americans will not do innovations in the next 50 years ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:27 AM Permalink
So my dear friend Standard of living is not how many dollars you make. It is how much each dollar counts or fetches! Hope I taught you some economics...you can live in switzerland as a servant for 80000$ PA, but live like a king in India for 20K$.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:49 AM Permalink
That is because China s currency is so low that Americans get work there to work on peanuts.
If china is not good then work will stop also and will move to India or eastern europe or even russia.
CHina has sweatshops where their workers work like coolies for 18 hours with pittyful pay. Someday they will revolt.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:38 AM Permalink
Buddy, in 2040, china will wield greater power in the world stage and YES some countries will have to bow to it, just as some countries as you stated bowed to US to become major powers. India will not coz we will be the 3rd biggest by then. Big enough in our own rights
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:30 AM Permalink
Population matters in this buddy. Wait for 2040 to happen. China will still be slightly lower, but its economy will be bigger.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:17 AM Permalink
OK a simple day to day example.
I make Rs 50,000 per month and I live alone.
You have 6 kids and a wife and you make Rs 100,000, you surely have a larger economy than me, but what is your living standard ? It will be lower than me and it is likely that you wont be able to spend much on yourself (as in defence) than me.
So despite having a larger "economy" I have an edge over you. I dont have the baggage of excess kids, that's why.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:35 AM Permalink
Well I think you are not understand the concept of economy at all.
What the f will happen when China's economy is 'bigger' ?
Will all other countries bow to China ?
China's economy is 'bigger' than India's? Does that mean that China walks over India and does not think it as a threat ? Or is China planning to atack India ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:32 AM Permalink
I rebutted your claim that these are NOT PPP figures.
Labour is paid highly in Switzerland, Germany, Europe, and it means even labour class can enjoy good life in West.
Compare this with how poorly labor are paid Rs 60 dehari wage for working entire day, barely hand to mouth existance.
It actually reflects poorly when the lowest class are UNDERPAID.
You are proud of it that you can pay peanuts and get job done by exploting poor people ?
And differentiate between human services and GOODS.
Higher class goods are cheaper in US for example a Honda Accord in India costs $20,000 versus $15,000 in the US. Also Laptops are cheaper. even high end vaios are cheaper.
It is human services that are paid more in developed world which means lower class ppl having a good life also and not just MBA's in india making Rs 50k and such.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:36 AM Permalink
How long can US survive in this luxury anyway? I mean as I said, when I can fly from Chennai to Singapore in the same cost that it takes for a Taxi ride in the US, the US economy will slowly become incompetent as far as cost capabilities go. No wonder both Manufacturing and services and high tech jobs are vanishing from US.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:21 AM Permalink
Standard of living is not necessarily how many dollars you earn, but measured in Purchasing Power Parity man! Taking a taxi ride from illinois airport to Rockford, costs 90$ in US. I can travel by plane from Chennai to Singapore at that cost. So your dumb 80,000$ & 30K$ is dumb comparison to make.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:09 AM Permalink
And as far as military might goes, China and US cannot protect each others nuclear weapons. Economically both will be stalemated. Infact US will suffer more! China will not be able to sell in 2040 to US if war erupts, but US will not even be producing half the things then. So there will be hyper inflation in 2040 if war erupts with China.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:45 AM Permalink
Boss once the jobs are gone, no one can sustain your 90$ rides. Why would a GE or Honeywell or Intel get any work done in US for so much money, when they can get it done in India or China for peanuts and with better quality as well? You guys in US are gonna be returning back one day coz lots of ya will be having pink slips in hand
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:06 AM Permalink
Buddy, in 2040 China's economy will beat the few trillions that US will be worth then. In terms of PPP it will still be behind, but China is 4 times US in population. So that is to be expected.
What I state has been predicted by American consultancies themselves.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 01:14 AM Permalink
So your point ?
According to same BRIC report -
Do you know in 2050 average American will have a per capita income or $83,710 versus China's $31,357 which means average American will be much more richer and having much higher standard of living even then.
And what about technologies, can you ever Imagine where American technologies would have reached by then ?
What is the big deal when a country having 4 times your populatin has a larger economy ?
Why cant u understand that it is nothing ! UP has larger economy than Tamil Nadu? Which state is better ? You decide and learn facts. UP also has larger economy than Karnataka. Is UP still better.
Why is it not going in your head that having larger economy is NOTHING !
RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:13 AM Permalink
That's not true at all. If you look at the recent records from John. F Kennedy's rule that have been declassified, US president was advised to attach China to prevent aggression on India. The surprising fact is that US was also prepared to use Nuclear weapons for that..
US always resents aggression, but unfortunately they themselves resort to it in the process of opposing it.
RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:18 AM Permalink
haha..it was right during his presidency era in 60s that China took away thousands of sq km of our land.Where were they?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:28 AM Permalink
Neo, you need to read history better. I also used to think like you.
And as 'Kutta' pointed, the more apt question would be.. where was USSR at that point ? USA has always been scared of communists and has hated communism. US always maintained a distance from India because we were close to the communists USSR.
As soon as India got into WTO and shunned its communism, US got close to India. You talk business, they'll talk business.. you talk communism, they'll either shun you or bomb you.. simple.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
What was that silly "non alignment" virus that India governments time after time practiced. And in practice they were buyng SOviet weapons, why would USA helped India in those circumstances when Nehruji was singing non alignment and hindi chini bhai bhai bullcrap ??
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by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:25 AM Permalink
I was replying to the so called doctrine Silly had written Kutta. Kennedies doctrine. US has great intent, that it never practices!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:48 AM Permalink
They never had to.. China and India got into Ceasefire.. and I'm glad they did !
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 06:30 AM Permalink
Neo, "But there is no denying the fact that US policies are myopic buddy. Forget history! These US governments will make friends and drop them as and when it suits them. They call it dipomacy!Look at the rank bullshit way they have treated Pakistan all these years."
Neo...true the US Govt is self centred, but why should they be,In world politics there is no permanent enemity or friendship..Look at Germany/Britain...France/Germany/UK/Japan...Japan/USA...why do you think that USA has treated Pakistan badly? What do Pakistan has to give to US? Its a headache for them producing the best terrorists in their country..and unleashing them on the world. Mush wants to become a leader of Islamic world, but on what strength. It is more weaker than even Iran and Syria.It relies 100% on western aid, and when a countries army gets involved in civilian matters it looses its focus. Paki military is most corrupt, check out the banglows in which army personnnel inn pakistan lives. 60% of the army budget in Pakistan goes in the payment of salaries, and fattening the Generals pockets.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Our Scientists are right!
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:38 AM Permalink
I dont care much about the history either. But there is no denying the fact that US policies are myopic buddy. Forget history! These US governments will make friends and drop them as and when it suits them. They call it dipomacy! Look at the rank bullshit way they have treated Pakistan all these years. They will treat us the same way if we dont keep our independence in every sphere of activity including Nuclear power. Go ahead, buy 2 reactors from them, but keep your independence by buying 4 from Russia. US has time and again proven in lot of regions that they are fair weather friends and untrustworthy. This taliban and Mujahideen were their creation of 80s buddy. Infact, indirectly the culpability of september 11 goes directly to the US! Just as Rajiv Gandhis murder goes to our RAW!
