It was great for all of us to know some truths about history.unfortunately discussion always ends on religion.Though aurangzeb committed many atrocities during his rule but he is still considered as devout muslim because he did it in the name of islam,whether killing his own brotheror prisoning his own father.
RE:aurangzeb
by Golden on Mar 02, 2007 11:25 PM Permalink
if and all he created all these (falsly alleged) then i dont understand from where these so many hindus are still roaming here and there in india. they must have got extinct till now. in fact there is not truth in the whole article. it has been writeen out of hatred and conspiracy rather than based on truth.
Unfortunately for Aurangzeb Shivaji was born in his time. The military genius of shivaji saw Aurangzeb spend his almost last 15 to 20 years trying to chase the marathas because they kept the hindu flag flying and Aurangzeb kept chasing them round and round until he realised that it was time for Mecca (death) and he's dream unfulfilled of a complete conversion. because he had never thought that he would get so much resisitance from Rajputs/marathas/sikhs.
RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:35 PM Permalink
Sanathana Dharma/Hinduism was not wiped out because of help from time to time by Gurus and Yogis - the Saptarishi, Raghavendra Swami, Sant Tukaram etc. The farmaans Aurangzeb issued to destroy temples and kill/convert Hindus by force can be seen by one and all in the museums Gautier mentioned - no manipulation happened here
RE:aurangzeb
by Name on Mar 02, 2007 06:39 PM Permalink
Killing is the thing apart from Islam. He did wrong if he is killing. Why are u relating the religion.. Don't recognice a religion by looking its follower.
Muslims are best among the worst followers. Well said by some western philosopher as discussed on this page earlier.
RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:56 AM Permalink
I'm sure there are some decent human beings that follow this evil and intolerant religion. If these decent human beings actually read the Koran and the Hadith, they wouldn't hesitate a second to renounce this religion.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Perv Sharma on Mar 06, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
Unfortunately we can't take U back in time to your great grandfather but you can atleast read something from the times of your great grandfather since you believe in Quran which was written many many years before Aurangzeb.
Regarding conversions - in present times you need to go to Pakistan and find out about so called islamic ahmediyas.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:41 AM Permalink
Guru Tegh Bahadur. Banda Bahadur, his case is even more tragic, the muslims ripped his 4 year old sons heart out and stuffed it into his mouth when he refused. Such is their cruelty.
Which fantasy world are you living in you moron ? Islam is a vile and disgusting cult. Goto http://www.faithfreedom.org and refute the above charges and make your 50000 dollars.
Since Muhammad has already set an example for you by marrying a 6 year old and consummating that marriage when she was 9, later he even married his own daughter-in-law. We don't have to look at the West for such depravity. There must already be lots of Muslims in India that must be following their own leaders example.
You want to refute these charges go to http://www.faithfreedom.org and claim your 50000 USD if you can do so.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:32 PM Permalink
your forefathers were, unfortunately they're dead now. If you try to convert someone to Islam by force today, you'll get it back good (Eent ka javaab, patthar sey milega)
RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by In on Mar 02, 2007 06:57 PM Permalink
No no, its because of the cultural heritage from the like u people only.. and because people are all materialistic.. they don't study the religion and start practicing in their own terms.. And when they are cought (or just blamed) entire community is targetted.
If you only see the religion its far beyound ur thoughts and dreams... Its just pure in its original form... and Allah had taken the care of this book till the end of the world.. And this will not change; Unlike others who lost their original books by doing modifications..
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 12:16 PM Permalink
But the Islam prescribes death for non-believers, I can't see how you can claim any kind of peaceful intent in Islam towards non-muslims.
From the Koran : 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:18 PM Permalink
what cultural heritage - Indian or Arab? India's books were lost because of being conquered (Muslims destroyed the Indian books) - remember the books of Europe (including those of Greek and Roman times) survive even today
U want motivation for Gujarat - when more than 3 lac Hindus have been pushed out of Kashmir , breaking of Budha idols in Afghan and the last straw was the burning of the train.
The biggest problem with you islamic followers is you just shut your eyes when you see so much good from the Hindu culture. History is full of them. But most recent, 1971 war when more than one lac islamic soldiers of Pak were freed with dignity. Yeah ! unlike the way your christian brothers of pakistan treated the Iraqi pows and the Pakis treated the pows from India in Kargil. One day you will definitely get it back.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:29 PM Permalink
Shameer, both Christianity (European History is replete with instances of Christian atrocities) and Islam are fundamentalist. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism etc. are tolerant
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Chankya Pandit on Mar 05, 2007 03:06 PM Permalink
Some muslim tried to report 'abuse' . here is the message again:
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 12:34 PM |
Shameer,
In all honesty:
1. The Koran does contain verses that contain conciliatory messages I don't deny that but it also contains suras that call for the killing of kafirs "non-believers". I've read what you've quoted 10 times now and can't the context which justifies killing. The first line simply says it all, to rephrase "if they disagree ", the following sentences indicate death.
2. It was Muhammad who was indulging in banditry (looting their caravans) which is why the citizens of Makkah were chasing him.
3. So all you have demonstrated from Muhammads own life is that. First the muslims attack the non-muslims, when they retaliate, then the muslims cry foul. That is the context, you have only proved my point not refuted it.
4. Further you highlight some more barbaric prescriptions from Mr. God (which let me remind you is an Abrahamic concept alien to Hinduism). In case you don't know the old testament is also a Muslim holy book. Secondly if the new testament prescribes even more barbarous punishment, what does that have to do with non Christian Indians.
5. Regarding context, let me make a final observation, Islam divides the world into Dar-ul-Harb (India) and Dar-ul-Islam (e.g., Saudi Arabia), it is the duty of every good Muslim to bring Dar-ul-Harb into the fold of Dar-ul-Islam by any means possible. Now given the context please reread the Suras.
There are even more severe allegations against Islam you may want to check out http://www.faithfreedom.org.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:58 AM Permalink
What about the innocent people that were killed in the UK by Muslims, who were from well off Muslim families and the UK has an stellar record in Muslim appeasement.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 02:01 AM Permalink
Neither because they don't preach the same type of intolerance and hatred that is in the Koran.
From the Koran : 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
No which decent human being will want to follow this vile and intolerant religion that preaches hatred so openly.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Shameer on Mar 03, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
WAH....U R NOT THE FIRST one who had seen that verse from Quran.....Mr. Secular...Don't spread hatred ....Quoting Quran out of context and spreading lies. I can qoute for the matter of fact any holy book and spread lies. A real hate monger...
now let me answer ur doubt .. The Quranic concept is very clear Qur-an 5:32 says ''..whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind..' Again Quran says "..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151) Ther shouldnt be any doubt on that. now to the verse u quoted. Read the complete verse... "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa' 4:89-91)
Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one any where? These verses were revealed by Allah to Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'ala Alaihi Wa Salam) at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the "terrorist". These verses are not a permission for "terrorism" but they are a warning against the "terrorists." But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.
It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.
Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)
