All we see is messages of gloom and how Kalaignar and the Dravidian Parties have screwed up Tamil Nadu.. Is that the reality? Please let me know amongst Indian states where Tamil Nadu ranks with respect to 1)literacy? 2)FDI 3)IT Infrastructure 4)Economy 5)Higher Education etc., you will then realize that views in Rediff are not all correct and that Dravidian parties have steered tamil nadu better than most Indian states. Most people here do not understand the concept of Social Justice.. that is equity and fairness to all .. not just the elite.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 07:44 PM Permalink
not that I support reservation.. but remember very poor people need the help. FCs must lobby harder and let the Politicans know that they should not be excluded. Most Newspapers and Media in TN are owned by FCs only.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by kicks on Apr 05, 2007 07:47 PM Permalink
I dont quite understand your message is. Do you support this move, then please let us know the reasons why? I surely believe MK is not a fool to just blindly make this move. He's a master in manipulating people's minds...
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 07:49 PM Permalink
my message is.. he is trying to bring equity in wealth and position among all castes. brahmins, Chettiars and some Mudaliars are very very well off in average (dont deny it). Many rural communities are very poorly off.. hence DMK's views must be seen in the context of FAIRNESS in society.. that is all communities reaching a level of self sufficiency.. it is a socialist government.
RE:RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by west on Apr 05, 2007 07:54 PM Permalink
Jackson - Everyone will support that move - if it's really meant to upbring the poor. This discussion wouldn't be there, if that's the real intention of the leaders.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by west on Apr 05, 2007 07:48 PM Permalink
Yeah??? all that development you mentioned is because of the people who already are in the service before their posts got filled in through reservation. Wait for another 30 years and then compare the results - because only then the decisions taken by the reserved posts will show their results.
RE:RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
west.. DMK is in power for 30 years.. if they haven't screwed up in 30 years.. dont hold your breadth expecting them to screw up in the enxt 30 :-)
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by kicks on Apr 05, 2007 08:01 PM Permalink
Jackson, I think it's your point of view is not right. It's true that the brahmins did create a lot of wealth till 2 decades back. Now wealth has been distributed equally all over TN. The point is dividing people based on religion/caste is not right considering the sensitivity of the issue. TN has already seen numerous caste issue over the years. Over the long run, life is going to get difficult. While we are looking to move forward aggresively with our economy, we are moving backwards with our local policies. The believe in reservation but not by religion/caste. Reservation based on salary is one. There are numerous villages in india which have been igonred for decades. Reservation for people from such villages would promote education and interest in people. This can start from a school level. These villages do not get the basic support from the government. There's no point in providing reservation to only a set of people. Do you know how many FC's don't get their daily food?
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Mahesh on Apr 05, 2007 08:07 PM Permalink
At last this is the day I was waiting for. I knew it had to happen soon, because the feel good factor has been going on for sometime. Actually it was the contrary to what was hapenning. I read quite a few of the messages in these columns and the MK bashing has started in all earnestness.
I had said the same things in the earlier blog on reservation during Friday / Saturday / Sunday and that there is more to this than meets the eye. How true I was? I had even quoted statistics only to be shooed off by "some blog pundits" who said that I was heartless and that I did not care for others. I had even created a blog calling it "Breaking News" (pun)asking people who could not get an admission because of the quota raj in TN to avail of the reservation system being introduced in the US at the behest of the Indian PM (based on the threat from MK).
The party has just begun. Have fun bashing each other up. That is the only solution to all the mess that is happening around us. As for Jackson saying that in 30 years nothing has been screwed, my prayer is, that he lives on for another 30 - 50 years to let reality hit hard. I am sure he willthen rue the day he wrote this message on the blog.
RE:[object]
by west on Apr 05, 2007 07:57 PM Permalink
I'm not excited to see what will happen after 30 years... because the result is obvious. I pity the one who cannot see the end result.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by S Kiran on Apr 05, 2007 07:52 PM Permalink
U seem to be a puppet of Karunanidhi. Whatever TN has achieved all these years is inspite of Dravidian parties. Imagine, what it would have been without these parties.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by kumar on Apr 05, 2007 08:00 PM Permalink
Mr Kiran
i dont think what you are saying is right. Every party has good and bad points about it. Some more than others. The dravidian parties in TN has actually done not only for TN but for India. They have brought TN to be one of the states with better socio economic indicators. They have done this without going communist. Secondly, it is because of the South, especially the dravidian parties that we have english so prominently in India hence giving us that great advantage in service industry around the world.
Thirdly, DMK and AIADMK have been voted back into power. This is despite what you say is bad politics. I am sure they are doing something right because unlike states like Bihar, they have achieved a lot.
Lastly, I am from UP. I would rather DMK run UP than the goons that have run UP since independence. If UP could be half of what TN is now, Indian economy would be better for it, due to the large population of my state.
Higher education, access to healthcare, etc, etc are great in TN.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 08:02 PM Permalink
thanks kumar.. that was what i was trying to say.. social justice and socio-economic indicators are more important than cheap caste points ..
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 07:57 PM Permalink
Congress was in power in UP, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh..BJP was in power in many states.. what have they done Kiran.. before you start mouthing DMK off.. talk is cheap.. Social Justice is successful in Tamil Nadu. Contrary to what Brahmins say.. They are the elite in Tamil Nadu (most big businesses and media are owned by them). Same goes with other forward castes...
RE:[object]
by west on Apr 05, 2007 08:01 PM Permalink
Jackson - your statement: They are the elite in Tamil Nadu (most big businesses and media are owned by them)
Conclusion: that's why exactly why TN has some growth.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:01 PM Permalink
I would say you are wrong on all things to say TN is ahead of all Indian states.
1) Literacy it is Kerala which is ahead of you 2) FDI Gurgaon is ahead of you 3) IT Infrastrucure I would say Bangalore is ahead of Chennai 4) Economy Not sure about this 5) Higher Education doesnt exist in CHennai except for private colleges and IIT Chennai
Let me tell som drawbacks 1) TN has the highest female infanticide in India 2) TN is the only state in the entire country which support LTTE despite LTTE having killed Rajiv Gandhi. 3) Nobody from the rest of India wants to settle down in Chennai why is that so ? 4) OBC frequently commit violence against SC/ST in TN . Whatever may be the basis for reservation just including caste is wrong and is just a political ploy money is also a factor now however much you deny it and rich OBCs dont deserver any reservation
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by west on Apr 05, 2007 08:21 PM Permalink
Crazy Human - What Jackson's intention is not to compare with the forward states. You should compare all the above indicators with Bihar or UP. Am I right, Jackson??? Did I miss any other states?
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:27 PM Permalink
there is no point in comparing with UP Bihar they are failed states the southern states which are more developed than northern states should start comparing with countries which are ahead of them.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 08:30 PM Permalink
This is not about states .. this is about the abuse DMK/Kalaignar were getting.. then you need to talk on the basis of facts not on emotion. I wanted to point out that the regime or leaders are not failed leaders but have perfomred better than their peers. It is easy to have a government for the rich and mighty.. but a really good government looks after the most needy and vulnerable .. So to evaluate DMK look at the bigger picture, social justice and stable socio-economic indicators..
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:39 PM Permalink
also if OBCs were oppressed by UC as claimed by karunanidhi why are they doing the samething to SC/Sts and why doesnt Karnunanidhi remove reservation tag from all those OBC castes which are committing violence against SC/ST
RE:[object]
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:34 PM Permalink
dont make Karunanidhi sound as though he is some sort of statesmen no Indian politician has ever displayed any sorts of statesmenship. He is just driven by blind anti-brahminism maybe he suffered some slighty insult and so he has made it his mission to wipe out Brahmins.Just like how Hitler was, majority of German population hated Jews but that doesnt make them right
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by kicks on Apr 05, 2007 08:41 PM Permalink
I think you are one of the victims of the "INDIA FEEL GOOD FACTOR"...Please understand our country is growing not because of state government policies but by reforms made by people like Manmohan singh, PC etc. TN would see similar growth no matter it's DMK running the show or AIADMK. One of the core reasons why chennai is improving is 1. Because it's a metro 2. It has some of the leading industries 3. accessiblity to ports 4. Colleges (manpower) 5. More cheaper than b'lore Please look at the situation 20 yrs from now. Do you want a country divided by religion/caste, do you want you kids to grow up in this environment.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by GWB on Apr 05, 2007 08:43 PM Permalink
To Jackson "Not at all.. it is an accepted fact that most MNCs see Chennai as a KNowledge Hub. " Soon they'll start seeing it as reservation hub
Btw, in my humble opinion, the IT sector developed to reach some strength primarily coz the politicians weren't savvy enough to understand the potential it offered. The Commies did not jump in with union crap and the other sore losers did not fck the then fledgling industry with caste/ religion/ language based reservation crap... The true effects of the great policy will be felt once the leader touches jobs in the pvt sector. In his present frenzy, i don't see the day is too far.
RE:[object]
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:46 PM Permalink
yeah true if politicians were involved earlier than today our IT industry would have been a stillborn baby. The day if not far off when countries like Vietnam,China will give us hard competition
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 08:26 PM Permalink
Not at all.. it is an accepted fact that most MNCs see Chennai as a KNowledge Hub. Also socio-economic indicators are beetter for TN than many other states. FDI - TN attracts more than anticipated. TN is a leader in most factors including Law and Order.. so how can rediff readers come and abuse DMK/Kalaignar like this? Is it fair or moral? On what basis are you doing this?
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by west on Apr 05, 2007 08:40 PM Permalink
Yes - most of the MNCs who are in Chennai are coming there because they know how much karunanidhi is playing foolish. Obviously, any one will choose a fool to win for himself!
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:31 PM Permalink
The mutual interaction of various philosophies, schools of thought, and religious ideologies in the state has had some effect, but by and large Tamil Nadu has the reputation of being more xenophobic than other states in India. Every now and then Tamil extremist demonstrations are held to reinforce the alleged superiority of Tamil. Women do not enjoy the same level of respect and protection compared to neighbouring Kerala. Tamil Nadu has one of the highest incidences of female infanticide and foeticide in India, due to the fact that a girl child is viewed as a liability resulting from poor female social standing
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Jackson on Apr 05, 2007 08:05 PM Permalink
i said in comparison to other states .. be honest in every aspect it is in top 5.. so it cant be a failed state can it?
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by kicks on Apr 05, 2007 08:06 PM Permalink
Jackson, I think it's your point of view is not right. It's true that the brahmins did create a lot of wealth till 2 decades back. Now wealth has been distributed equally all over TN. The point is dividing people based on religion/caste is not right considering the sensitivity of the issue. TN has already seen numerous caste issue over the years. Over the long run, life is going to get difficult. While we are looking to move forward aggresively with our economy, we are moving backwards with our local policies. The believe in reservation but not by religion/caste. Reservation based on salary is one. There are numerous villages in india which have been igonred for decades. Reservation for people from such villages would promote education and interest in people. This can start from a school level. These villages do not get the basic support from the government. There's no point in providing reservation to only a set of people. Do you know how many FC's don't get their daily food?
RE:[object]
by kicks on Apr 05, 2007 08:08 PM Permalink
Another point to add...Please remember a politician like MK can survive only when the people are divided. The best way to divide a community is by religion/caste. we are so vulnerable to these
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:10 PM Permalink
why are you comparing to India if you have so much of pride over TN you should compare with some foreign state like Israel which has the same population like you just check where is Israel and where is TN/India, India is in a very poor state in all the factors, so TN may happen to better off than the northen states that is not a great deal to be proud about, India ranks right at the bottom.Israel was created by scracth from 1947 and look where it is now. Also what about corruption is it less or more I guess it is the same as any other part in India.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by ruzo on Apr 05, 2007 08:39 PM Permalink
Reservation based on caste and religion totally sucks! God save my land. Clarification:TN does NOT SUPPORT LTTE. I think you misled by statements made by some political knuckleheads.
RE:All Doom and Gloom???
by Crazy Human on Apr 05, 2007 08:44 PM Permalink
the fact some of the castes have suffered a lot but also it is true that in TN brahmins have been made a scapegoat for all the caste problems. So there has to be reservations for people who have been denied access to education. But it is equally true that money also plays a big role today and to just say that if you belong to so and so caste you are backward is plain wrong. You need to consider all factors and then give reservations, not just caste alone. This is not going to happen in TN atleast till Karunanidhi lives I have a bit more hope towards Dayanidhi.
