One come across many so called intelluctuals and discussing that USSR collasped !To those I question Please answer whether any Republics of former USSR did ask for sepration from USSR !The answer is No!That's why the Rulers of the Former Republics are still ruling in those Republics!Kazakhsthan ,Uzbekistan ,kirgyzsthan etc!In fact while disbanding USSR the Russians simply sent Fax to these Republics that they were free!Was there any Border idspute with Russia!No!In fact the people of these republics did not even know that they were no more the citizens of the USSR!As it was disbanded by the Communist Party!So peaceful change !No guns No battles!The truth is Russsian elite the ruling class wanted seprate status for the elite as in USSr most people had same Type of Houses !Salary !etc!The elite wanted something better for themselves!When the elite were going to other places even India theywere amazed to see that elite enjoyed Luxries beyond the other poors!The space is l;imited here!But the Russians never wannted to free Chechenya and did not give it the freedom for geopolitical reasons!If USSR Collasped then chechenya would have been free too!Even now they are fighting fircely after the other republics became free!The Comminst Party disbanded the USSR own it own !But has the citizens been given private ownership of houses and farm land!A Big No!Because if it were to happen then all will ask for the better location houses !Some may prefer first floor and some Ground floor!Some
Not only do the objective conditions change in the act of reproduction, e.g. the village becomes a town, the wilderness a cleared field etc., but the producers change, too, in that they bring out new qualities in themselves, develop themselves in production, transform themselves, develop new powers and ideas, new modes of intercourse, new needs and new language. " Russia had 72 years of Complete Communism and it can change from the basics of the socilims as people at large will never lkie it!Even in the West and America the Govt's always take the intesrt of its citizens!The citizens are educated and enlightened !And the ruling class knows that if they did not cater to their needs they will be thrown out!The historey of the West is known to the elte of the West!France had its FENCH REVOULTION -THE FERENCHkilled QueenAnd King and throw the Monarchy!Even in Britain in 1650 the Cromwell threw the Monarchy and killed King Chrles and ushered the path for Socilism in Britain!The Americans too throw the Monarchy of Britain - by force -Violence means -and not only ensured that Nation does not get divided as in India but later on added ALSKA which the CZAR of Russia sold to them for millons of Dollar!Such is the lve of mother land for CZAR and his henchmen!The Americans added Florida and Hawai etc !It is a Democratic Country !Which went on adding More land after land as one cam see!But has folowed the path of Socilsm fo its own citizens !It keeps it citizens under Socilsm amd giv
RE:The Myth of the USSR Collpase!Wase any demand for separation from former republics of USSR !What was Gorbachov role
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 05:08 PM Permalink
giving them Unemployment allowance ,mediacl insurance ,Free housing thru subprime loans !It keeps their citizens under Socilst system but keeps the third world out of the gambit of Marxism!It wants world resources for its own use such as Iraq for oil etc!But as I said that USSr was disbanded by Communst party on its own and all reopublics mostly muslims werwe given fredom!But if it Coolsped then Why chechenya could noy become free!Thr russians have Geopolitical reasons for that!Thr russians did what theu wanted!As Marx too says that Marxism will continue to change as per time for the benfit of Huminity!
RE:RE:The Myth of the USSR Collpase!Wase any demand for separation from former republics of USSR !What was Gorbachov role
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 05:11 PM Permalink
this got missing from the text: Marx's theory of history attempts to describe the way in which humans change their environments and (in dialectical relation) their environments change them as well. That is:
Not only do the objective conditions change in the act of reproduction, e.g. the village becomes a town, the wilderness a cleared field etc., but the producers change, too, in that they bring out new qualities in themselves, develop themselves in production, transform themselves, develop new powers and ideas, new modes of intercourse, new needs and new language. [29]
Some of the readers are Chinese who use western rubbish as an excuse/argument. I would believe Western rubbish than the Chinese one, because, seeing is beliving. In China everything is sensored and history is no exception. How then can you believe what a Chinese is saying however logical it may sound to him. Tibet is a large and ethnically very different part of China. To promote cultural genocide there is brutal. Tibetans are venting thier anger against Han migration into Tibet and hence deprevation of Tibetans when they destroyed ethnic Han businesses. It is very similar to what the Hans did to the Japanese businesses not that long ago. I am quite alright with Tibetans doing the same to the Hans.
Why does China wants to annex other lands and claim it as theirs ?
They have taken aksai chin, they occupied Tibet, they claim Arunachal Pradesh as their own, and given a chance they will try and take India too.
Why are they not satisfied with their land ? it is such a big country, they want to divide India but cant give freedom to Tibet.
Tibet was such a peaceful nation then why occupy it in first place ? what was the harm in having a peaceful Tibet as a neighbour.
All other arguments and blaming the west etc. are crap, China has to give up its expansionist attitude first step is free Tibet and let them live peacefully.
If they want they can prohibit arms in Tibet but to occupy it and destroy its culture ??
The Chinese government is going to pay "compensation" to the victims of violence in Tibet, and in my country (the USA) the press is calling this "propaganda." The press did the same with the USSR. Any act of generosity, apology, or compromise on the part of an adversary is labeled "propaganda" because the West, generally, is opposed to the Chinese government and its designs. Tibet should have been left independent, of course, but we should be careful with the words we use to describe complicated events. To call an act of redemption, even a small one like this, "propaganda" is itself "propaganda." The best way to handle China may be to endorse its Olympics and welcome it into the industrialized world. Then they may have too much to lose to alienate the West.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by maharaj wazir on Apr 04, 2008 03:42 PM Permalink
The best way forward is that china keeps the territory but give the people complete freedom to live and run their own affairs china must also understand that the massive industrilisation of rest of the china(even india)may not hv been the best way forward,hence leaving Tibet alone to keep their living/affairs and the culture untouched wud be the best comarison and benchmark for the whole world.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by varghese on Apr 09, 2008 06:13 PM Permalink
THE ONLY WAY OUT IS THE DIS-INTEGRATION OF CHINA..WITH DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM SURELY CHINA WILL BREAK INTO 20 PIECES BY 2020...
USA AND THE WORLD SHOULD BEGIN BOYCOTTING CHINESE INDUSTRY..THEN THIS WILL HASTEN UP THE PROCESS OF BREAKING UP..SAME LIKE USSR..
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by steve chin on Apr 10, 2008 10:10 AM Permalink
US needs Chinese support more then ever. US can not resolve issues with North Korea and Iran without Chinese support. Not to mention, US depends on China to finance their national debt.
Without CCP China may still be in pieces (>20 pieces). It hasn't been that long. We still remember what it's like to live in chaos, like slaves without a home, saling their own son for a fist of rice. China had a very dark modern history. I know CCP is not perfect (alots of room for improvement) but it's the best one yet. I like the direction China is moving toward. I hope CCP is here to stay (longer then 2020). I don't want my children to experience what my grand parents did.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by Janam on Apr 25, 2008 11:34 AM Permalink
Steve, U r right, you are better off than your grand parents, but this is not the right kind of growth, you do not have a say in what kind of growth you need. If the time the break neck growth is over, you would have lost many things. Just imagine your kids may say the same thing, without freedom of expression what the hell I am doing in this country, will telling them the tales of how bad it was in your grand parents time would convince them ??
RE:RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by steve chin on May 02, 2008 12:23 PM Permalink
Janam, tell me what the right kind of growth is. What is freedom of expression??? My friend, people express largely what they were taught to express. For that reason, what works in one culture may not function in another. Look it gender inequality in Japan. Things happen for a reason. CCP took over China (not KMT) because it had popular support during the civil war in 1940's. CCP's been in power for 59 years now and went through hundred flower movement, great leap forward, cultural revolution, economic reform and 4 leadership transition. China is still in "growing pain". Maybe someday my kids or my grandkids may ask for a different China. If the timing is right and population's ready, China will change.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by steve chin on Mar 29, 2008 11:11 PM Permalink
"compensation" to the victims of violence in Tibet, and in my country (the USA) the press is calling this "propaganda." I need to clarify two things here. 1. The Chinese government is going to pay compensation to the (victims) innocent people who were killed, injured and had property losses during the Tibetan riot. These victims where mainly ethnic-Han not Tibetan. The official report said, 18 civilian and 1 police were killed (non identified as Tibetan). All the burnt down stores and buildings were own by again ethnic-Hans not Tibetans. Where is the act of redemption here? I did not hear a word of apology. It is clearly Chinese government's effort to calm the ethnic-Hans. The ethnic-Hans out numbers Tibetan 2:1 in Tibet. You don't want the ethnic-Han to chase down the Tibetan monks. The ethnic-Hans were brave enough to settle in Tibet during the worse times. They are a feisty crowd. 2. Tibet should have been left independent. If we examine the last 500 year of tibetan history, Tibet was ruled by others for more then 433 year and left independent for less than 67 years. Qing (Manchu-ethnic minority) Dynasty for 376 years and CCP for the last 57 years. Which means, Tibet was only left independent during war times or power transition in the Middle Kingdom. Believe it or not, majority of history Tibet had a peaceful co-existence with the other ethnic groups in the Middle Kingdom.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by Nico Davis on Mar 30, 2008 06:11 PM Permalink
steve chin, if you are a person with no political and nationalism ideology as your preconception, first, you should invesigate and then talk. Otherwise, so-called "discusion" is only wasting time.
RE:RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by on Mar 31, 2008 10:36 AM Permalink
Nico Davis, if you are a person who believes in freedom of speech, then you should invesigate and then talk. Otherwise, so-called "discusion" with you white people is only wasting time.
RE:RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by on Mar 31, 2008 10:33 AM Permalink
From what has been reported so far, there was at least one Tibetan girl burnt to death in the March 14 riot.
RE:Rhetorical tricks.
by on Mar 31, 2008 10:34 AM Permalink
From what has been reported so far, there was at least 1 Tibetan girl burnt to death in the March 14 riot.
The essay provides an insight into the thinking taking place in the CCP. The fact is that CCP like its Indian cousin are doctrinaire in their approach.There are important events which have made their thinking rigid, far removed from the ground reality and out of context. While China has adapted materially to the winds of change- being very practical people,they have not come to terms in their political thought. It makes their action that would have been relevent to the early years of the last century. It is definitely deplorable that they have shown the least sensitivity to their Tibetan brethren and thair aspirations to live their own way of life in dignity. It is difficult to understand why autonomy should be so dangerous in these times.
RE:Tibet problem
by on Mar 29, 2008 03:48 PM Permalink
Why autonomy should be so dangerous? Your right, historic events made our thinking rigid (history can repeat). China has 56 nationalities (Tibet being one). Let me point out a few of the problems here: 1. Giving autonomy to one means autonomy to all. 2. We know what happened in China during 1912 to 1927. Sub-cultures in different region of China raise their own army and became Warlords. China was a mess!! Japan took advantage of this and formed a puppet government in Manchu. I don't have to go on, you should know what happen after that. 3. Tibet has always been the so called western frontier. Historically where outlaws disappeared into (safe haven). We may seem far removed from the ground reality and out of context, but we do have our reasons. The think tank in CCP are not all delusional. We would love to be in multi-national harmony. Unfortunately, memories of our past conflict preclude this. Only if mankind can forgive and forget. Just look at the Tibetan rioters burning down buildings and killing innocent people. This was not the first civil unrest in Tibet and will not be the last.
"Change will come from within China" - Hu Yaobang - give me a break!! He would've done the same. He was in the politburo when troops were sent into Tibet in 1959.
I have been in China all my 33 years life, and enjoy the life here.
I know we can access the news freely in internet, and the government do many things in the wrong way.
But, I love China. Something is quite important in western world, but maybe not here in China. For example one child policy, many westerns think it is same with "killing", this view is quite funny and so stupid I think, it is one of the best policy I have even seen, and actually good to China.
I will ask the question, which has been asked some many times, "what will you do if part of your country want to independent?", you will very quick get a answer to see what happen in Spain or Canada.
Hi, these western friend, close you mouth, calm down, then think what you should do.
RE:these western friend, close you mouth and calm down
by on Mar 30, 2008 10:27 PM Permalink
You need a serious wake up call, eastern friend. China has the strictest media regulations in the world. You don't realize this because it is happening to you. Your government isn't for the people, it is against them. We know Tibet and we know China. Tibet is way more peaceful. Without capitalism, what real strength did you have. What has the communist party really done for you? They robbed the entire world of Chinese art and history during the Cultural Revolution. When the world boycotts all goods from China you will begin to see a clearer picture. China is the one occupying Tibet, not the other way around. You say you went there to "liberate them". Funny, they don't seem to want to be liberated from their culture and history. Religious freedom and communism don't go hand in hand. Freedom for the people and communism don't go hand in hand. Tyranny and communism go hand in hand. If the Chinese people want to be against the Tibetan people, be prepared for your economy to fall hard and fast!
RE:these western friend, close you mouth and calm down
by on Mar 31, 2008 10:40 AM Permalink
You need a serious wake up call, western friend. Caesaropapism is the word if Dalai really rules Tibet. If you don't want to live in medieval Europe, then how could you ask Tibetan people to live under such a medieval system. What had Martin Luther achieved?
RE:RE:these western friend, close you mouth and calm down
by kadaveru on Apr 19, 2008 02:34 PM Permalink
EASTERN What ever is the argument acept the factyou chinese one child policy guy, will you accept your neighbour to come and occupy your house change the structure/colour/the name of your kids. Its all rubish chinese peopele and their attitiude towards other mankind is nothing but terrorism. Even the products which u manufacture had to be racalled from various countires due chemical content which is poisnous. From your president to the last infant in your country have to cleanse yourselves mentaly and help other manking live peacefully.
IS GOVERNMENT FOR PEOPLE OR PEOPLE FOR GOVERNMENT- THAT'S FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION, IF YOU ASK YOUR SELF THIS, THAN REST OF THINGS LIKE DISTORTION,FABRICATION,LIE WILL FALL AWAY.
AND YOU GET RIGHT ANSWERE YOURSELF- NO NEED TO DEFEND ARTFICIALLY FOR FALLS CONTRIVED FLAWED IDEOLOGY.
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by on Mar 29, 2008 03:56 PM Permalink
When Tibetan rioters burning down buildings and killing innocent people, the government's main duty is to protect the people and stop the civil unrest.
RE:RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by kadaveru on Apr 19, 2008 02:36 PM Permalink
What ever is the argument acept the factyou chinese one child policy guy, will you accept your neighbour to come and occupy your house change the structure/colour/the name of your kids. Its all rubish chinese peopele and their attitiude towards other mankind is nothing but terrorism. Even the products which u manufacture had to be racalled from various countires due chemical content which is poisnous. From your president to the last infant in your country have to cleanse yourselves mentaly and help other manking live peacefully.
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by Angelo deSouza on Mar 30, 2008 05:36 PM Permalink
Tibet is NOT part of China and never has been. China is illegally occupying Tibet. China should either GET OUT of Tibet or be KICKED OUT.
RE:RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by tenzin chonjor on Apr 03, 2008 05:53 PM Permalink
tibet and china botrh were under mongolian rule in 14th century does it mean that we are the in seperable part of mongol.................stupid chinese
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by steve chin on Apr 10, 2008 11:11 AM Permalink
If you don't understand what I wrote just say so. Don't go around calling me stupid.
My point: When Mongols ruled China, they ruled all the ethnic groups including Tibetan, Mongols, Manchus, Muslims, Hans....
When Manchus ruled China they ruled all the ethnic groups including Tibetan, Mongols, Manchus, Muslims, Hans....
Now CCP rules China, they rule over all the ethnic groups including Tibetans, Mongols, Manchus, Muslims, Hans....
So in the future, when Tibetans rules China, Tibetans will rule all the ethnic groups alike including Tibetan, Mongols, Manchus, Muslims, Hans....
This may be difficult to understand for some but for the 1.3 billion "stupid chinese" with with 56 nationalities - we get this.
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by kadaveru on Apr 19, 2008 02:49 PM Permalink
Dear Steve I am sure this is not ur coreect name, well said BUT the important factor is from 1950 till date your CPP has killed 1.3 million tibetans who on earth has given the authority to take the life of others, you should not hurt others but you are killing people many of them are children whose only fault is they are born as neighbours to the chinese, Repent you will definetly pay the price. Again i repeat from the President of your country to the last infant cleanse yourselves mantaly and let others live peacefully.
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by on Mar 31, 2008 10:42 AM Permalink
Tibet was included in China by 13th century Mongols and 17th Manchus. Western people are typically idiots in Eastern history.
RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by Manjula A on Mar 31, 2008 04:47 PM Permalink
Tibet was not included in China but both Tibet and China were colonised by mongols. The chinese had lived their times as slaves alright, and now want to enslave others. Don't blindly believe what your government tell you as history. READ stupid guys, read!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:RE:HERE IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION TO CCP
by steve chin on Apr 01, 2008 06:45 AM Permalink
This is where history shapes the meaning of the word "sovereignty". China is a multi-national state (56 nationalities). China was ruled by ethnic-minority many times in its history. Just to name a few, ethnic-Jins, Qidans, Mongols, Manchus and more... When Mongol Khan established its capital Dadu(in Beijing), Khan assume the "Mandate of Heaven" to reign over the Middle Kingdom. Therefore, China (Middle Kingdom) can't be colonized by Mongols. Mongol Khan was the "Son of the Heaven" with divine "sovereignty". Moreover, Tibet can't be colonized by CCP, Mongols nor Manchus. The right to rule is not limited to one dynasty, party or ethnic group but through the 'Mandate of Heaven'. Who knows where or to whom this mandate will go to next (Tibet?).
Currently every country in the world recognizes China's sovereignty over Tibet.
If change in China's politicians takes a while longer, it will be preceeded by internal change in concerned world voters and consumers. Each dollar of increase in trade is placing China deeper into the connected world, where increasingly every tiny event affects somwhere else, particularly disruptive ones. History Educated consumers are growingly aware of human rights and its violations... that' why we are now focusing on cultural respect,'harmonious sciety', and not just death tolls. At some point, we'll sum things up and realise that world income and happiness indexes are not as high as they could be... because of some old-fashioned tough politicians keep playing by rules that not longer produce valuable effects, not for today's criteria, obviously even less for future developments. I even seriously doubt, by today's chineese standars, that Hu Jintao's tough legacy could be an effective example to follow by anyone wanting to ascend in China's ruling party. Jintao's success was to be in tune with his environment back then. Nowadays growth is altering everything and so aspiring politicians should emulate that tunning, not the particular policies applied back then.
i'm sure living in china is fine, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that china supplies weapons to burma's military junta (which killed civilians and monks last year), supplies money to sudan's government (which is committing genocide to black africans), and refuses to allow anyone to see what is going on in tibet. clearly there is a problem going on? it's a shame that the indian goverment is too cowardly to criticize china's treatment of tibetans.
RE:the china question
by Mark on Apr 01, 2008 10:44 PM Permalink
United States-champion of democracy and the free world, numerous European nations, USSR/Russia supplied both conventional and non-conventional (chemical, biological) weapons to Iraq under Saddam Hussein over 20 years ago. The US administration back then knew and didn't care Saddam used the chemical weapons on the Kurds. A decade or so later, Saddam doesn't want to be a puppet anymore thus becoming useless to the Western nations. So starting with Bush Senior, then Bush Junior and his cronies made up crap excuses to invade his country and execute him. Not that Saddam is a nice guy and doesn't deserve a hanging. But it shouldn't come as a result of interference by the US and its little allies. How come there aren't more complaints about this? Bush/Cheney and its thugs twisting things so "enemy combatants" at Gitmo are still caged up without charges after how many years now? And Guantanamo Bay itself belongs to Cuba in the first place. Why is the US occupying that piece of land?
In regards to Sri Lanka and its Tamil rebels. India has stepped up arming the Sri Lanka govt. Some people, not all, side with the Tamils and believe that they are being discriminated against and oppressed by the mainstream Sri Lankans. If so, why is India supplying arms to the Sri Lanka government to help quash the Tamil Tigers?
Bottom line, every nation/tribe/society past present and future have its pros and cons. Just leave others alone doing their thing and take care of your own.
RE:the china question
by kadaveru on Apr 19, 2008 03:27 PM Permalink
well said BUT the important factor is from 1950 till date your CPP has killed 1.3 million tibetans who on earth has given the authority to take the life of others, you should not hurt others but you are killing people many of them are children whose only fault is they are born as neighbours to the chinese, Repent you will definetly pay the price. Again i repeat from the President of your country to the last infant cleanse yourselves mantaly and let others live peacefully.
