After 9-11, there were a few retaliatory attacks on muslims and (due to ignorance) on sikhs. The perpetrators were caught, and convicted within 12 months. Unlike as in Gujarat where the police protect the criminals who boast of their crimes on Video
gautier should know that he & his nation owe their survival to indians including many distinguished indian muslims. During world war 1, britain as india's colonial ruler forcibly recruited indians from villages to fight in Europe against Germans who had quickly occuppied Northern France and Belgium.Notable triumphs of indian army in first world war include battle of ypres in Belgium and at neuilly-chapelle in France.And many martyrs were muslims. The first indian to win the Victoria Cross was Khudadad Khan from Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP, now part of Pakistan) who was injured at ypres.So , it does not behove Gautier to sling mud at segments of the Indian people. But for Indians, the Germans would long ago have castrated his nation of sissies and flirts.
RE:frenchmen should be grateful to indians incuding indian muslims
by Kris iyer on Aug 02, 2008 08:50 PM Permalink
Krupakaran, I do not see Mr.Gautier "slinging mud at segments of the Indian people." Give some specific quotes from him where he is doing that. My understanding is that he is saying, in my words, "Read Indian history as it happened, do not suppress anything or add anything, understand the continuity of Indian culture, which features have been constant, which features are foundational, which features will help you to develop on your own. Should Indians really be copying the West? Why can't you turn to your own culture and history for solutions?"
I like that message. Perhaps, you are a Christian and dislike Hinduism or Hindu culture. Unfortunately, some Christians do. But Mr.Gautier is from a country that stood in the forefront of the age of Enlightenment. Voltaire and Rousseau were French intellecturals who shaped the whole of European and American thinking. He is no narrow-minded Christian. He is still one but admires the Hindu culture and history he sees, feels the pain of the "Hindu Holocaust", when, during six centuries from 10 to 15th centuries, up to 80 million Hindus were either massacred or taken as slaves over the "Hindu Khush" ("Hindu Killer") mountains into central asia. Mr.Gautier does not connect our muslims to any of this. But he says, the Congress Nehruvites, the Marxists and the Mullahs have stopped Indians from knowing the full facts of this chapter of Indian history.
RE:frenchmen should be grateful to indians incuding indian muslims
by krupakaran on Aug 07, 2008 05:24 PM Permalink
dear kris, in the para 10, after talking of bangalore and ahmedabad blasts, gautier says, GOI wants to "deflect the fact that most of the recent terror attacks have been perpetrated by Indian Muslims". This is highly incendiary and blames a community for what a few have done.Just as a few srilankan tamils and irish catholics are responsible for blasts over there.It is despicable for a foreigner to target a section of indians , more so when indian blood (both hindu & muslim)has been shed for his country.There are thousands of issues between india & pak or hindus & others but as an outsider , let him not badmouth any community. Germany has invaded france 6 times from 1815 to1941: in fact europeans have been cutting each others' throats for a thousand years. But today, they have the same currency and good luck to them.But no trouble-making in our backyard please. Especially when islamic fundamentalism was nurtured by western imperialism with osama in the cia payroll.
Although the article seems to be aimed at digging at causes of present day india's bad condition, I dont understand why people in our country resort to self-pity whenever indian culture is being mentioned! Almost every country in this world is suffering with Terrorism,Corruption,Loss of moral values not because they have no ancient civilisations but because people forgot god and what he told from time to time through his prophets. We forgot that we are going to die some day and not going to take any thing with us. we have to face god and submit our explanation of how we lived our lives.This is the only thing any religion teaches us. But unfortunately we indians are blaming each others and to add fuel to fire media is hyping up the bad things in society and neglecting good things done by small people and small organisations for welfare of our socity. We go the extent of worshipping cinema heroes and accepting our leaders as is in Tamil and Telugu. Simply speaking this shows that we common people still have the mind set of slave not a master. The only way to progress is to leave self-pity and accept that loss of moral values is a global process not just limited to india. The solution is within us not with people coming from france and telling that indian culture is degraded. Please please think positively. Hope and try to make your surruonding people believe in morality. dont get flooded gy self-pity.
RE:self pity is dangerous
by Kris iyer on Aug 02, 2008 08:34 PM Permalink
Abdul Kaleem, A good post that carries relevant points. Yes, India is not the only country suffering from terrorism, corruption and loss of ethics. They are found in most parts of the world. Drug addiction and high level of violent crimes are now serious worries in many "avanced" countries. I support your point that here in India we should think positively and not start "lamenting" too readily. I noticed that even our media would have such headlines as: "BSE Crashes by 5 points" or "BSE soars by 5 points". Always from one extreme to another. Like in Bollywood movies, one moment everyone is laughing, dancing and when the next scene opens, within a minute somebody is crying her eyes out, wailing very loudly. You can hear it outside the cinema hall!! Self-pity will spoil resolute and wise actions. Let us not give up thinking ways of improving ourselves and our country.
Mr. Gautier's FEEL for Indian Civilisation comes from his extensive studies of Indian history and culture. Currently, there are about a dozen Western and other scholars who understand India's SOUL, better than most Indians!! Such things happen. At least Mr. Gautier is sharing his feelings with us. He could be comfortably off in some nice part of France, sipping french coffee. I do truly thank him for his efforts. I support him fully. 1) V.S. Naipaul called India, "A Wounded Civilisation". In a book with that title, he says that the intelligentia of medieval India were decimated by the attacks of Md.Ghori, Gazni, Babur and Ahmad Shah Abdali. 2) In 1947, the "last Englishman to rule India", did not bother with reviving any of the native instituions like the Panchayat. Nehru did not understand the "soul" of India, despite his book "Re-discovery of India". He was more influenced by Fabian socialism but did not implement it skillfully. 3) Most Indians 've seen the disappearance of "political/ admin., ethics". "Money makes India go round" - the "trust vore" saw thousands of crores passed around. The Congress is NOT truly Indian any longer. It is allied to "dalals", "vote-bank mullahs" and some "industrial houses" so that it could be sitting in the Kursi for a few more months. 4) Mahatmaji said, "Take care of village welfare, the country will develop on sound footing. Congress, turn yourselves into a social-service organisation." His views were cremated in 1948 with his body.
RE:INDIA DISTRACTED
by Manjula A on Aug 04, 2008 03:18 PM Permalink
The Mahatma was sidetracked and undermined long before his death by Nehru and Patel. HIS views on how to Constitute India were thrown into the dustbin and the Constituent Assembly, which wrote out Constitution, wrote the exact opposite of whatever he envisaged. The powers that were, in 1947, decided that the Mahatma's job was to get freedom for the country and he had no business running it. While HE advised Congress party to come out of politics on attaining independence, they threw HIM out of politics.
This neglected population would express themselves as muslim terrorist or naxalites …………. Very soon we will see a leader from these exploited segment as the prime minister of this country. This will give us more opportunity to be nostalgic about our great past.
Mr. gautier,
The solution is not in hating a community or caste. The solution lies in addressing to the root cause poverty and exploitation. The only way to do that is economic reforms. The government should be completely out of running business. Reduce taxation, ensure every employer takes care of his employees basic needs like health insurance, children’s education. Indian Government’s role is only reform reform reform.
But just look at What has the current government done in the form of reform in the last 4 years of its existence….NOTHING. People will say we are doing very well with 8 % GDP growth…. But there are countries like Sudan , cambodia , Ethiopia ……..and many other such small nations with more than double digit GDP growth. All these nations including India has benefited from Global consumption growth driven by the developed nations in Americas and Europe .
Try comparing India to China the later is 20 times larger than India in any sector except for IT software. Today’s china has the economic resource and political will to tackle the problems of terrorism or internal revolt in the same way the US has post 9/11.
To conclude India truly has the potential to be a gre
RE:A weakening India (contd)
by Kris iyer on Aug 01, 2008 05:02 PM Permalink
ManiVSS, Mr.Gautier has not "hated any community". He has been saying, "Indians of all communities must understand Indian history. Must develop the self-confidence to face the history that has made the India of the present." He has drawn parallels from his own country.
He knows, as every educated Indian knows, that the present generation of muslims have nothing to do with the perpetrators of atrocities in medieval India. It is the Congress party and historians like Romilla Thapper, Irfan Habib who have sought to impose on us a "white-washed" history of India, glossing over a lot of essential details and descriptions. When scholars like Mr.Gautier point this out, they are abused as "saffron supporters". He has no particular reason to take sides in Indian politics. He is more objective than our Marxist-inspired historians. You have made helpful suggestions. To give you a perspective: Once Indira Gandhi govt., brought a British tax expert to India to suggest ways to "improve revenue collection". At that time Indira had a top tax rate of 92% (don't laugh - you do not know socialism). This expert examined all the different tax laws, the structure of collection and accounting of tax. Then wrote a short report: "Your system is excellent, now go and collect the taxes". The I.T. dept,., in those days was the most CORRUPT. What policies will work when the implementation arm is sucking up a lot of the monies before it reaches the Ex-chequer?
RE:A weakening India (contd)
by Rajan Shah on Aug 01, 2008 11:35 AM Permalink
"Try comparing India to China the later is 20 times larger than India in any sector except for IT software."
Yup and whose fault is that - why it is the left wing turds that have run this country for decades. So what is a left wing turd - well Beijing Bidwai is a good example and all the prats who work at that left wing rag, The Hindu. And they like China being light years ahead of India
Modern India is a product of confused directionless policy of mixed economy followed by some of the great leaders mentioned in your article. Post independence we never believed in the progressive path of capitalism. For almost 45 years we detested market economics believed in crappy ideas of socialism. We thought we would build the nation by nationalising banks and industries, we thought we build a great nation by selectively doling out licences to some Birlas or Tatas. We ensured there was no more than 2 car manufacturer, not more than one private company producing steel.
These policies were decided by the very same upper caste elite who thought they new the best. In reality these upper caste mental masturbators were lazy fools who wanted to perpetrate there control. This kind of a system would breed corruption, exploitation even in the most educated society with great heritage.
Today’s India is still struggling to come out its shackles. Unfortunately or fortunately thanks to mass media like television material aspirations of the common man in this country is no less than any average citizen in the western world. Today’s Indian wants to drive the best cars, live in modern apartments, wants to holiday abroad……………
These aspirations are only going to get bigger and bigger. On the other hand we have a very large population struggling for one square meal. This segment is very easily susceptible to further exploitation. This neglected popul
further exploitation. This neglected population would express themselves as muslim terrorist or naxalites …………. Very soon we will see a leader from these exploited segment as the prime minister of this country. This will give us more opportunity to be nostalgic about our great past.
Mr. gautier,
The solution is not in hating a community or caste. The solution lies in addressing to the root cause poverty and exploitation. The only way to do that is economic reforms. The government should be completely out of running business. Reduce taxation, ensure every employer takes care of his employees basic needs like health insurance, children’s education. Indian Government’s role is only reform reform reform.
But just look at What has the current government done in the form of reform in the last 4 years of its existence….NOTHING. People will say we are doing very well with 8 % GDP growth…. But there are countries like Sudan , cambodia , Ethiopia ……..and many other such small nations with more than double digit GDP growth. All these nations including India has benefited from Global consumption growth driven by the developed nations in Americas and Europe .
Try comparing India to China the later is 20 times larger than India in any sector except for IT software. Today’s china has the economic resource and political will to tackle the problems of terrorism or internal revolt in the same way the US has post 9/11.
Modern India is a product of confused directionless policy of mixed economy followed by some of the great leaders mentioned in your article. Post independence we never believed in the progressive path of capitalism. For almost 45 years we detested market economics believed in crappy ideas of socialism. We thought we would build the nation by nationalising banks and industries, we thought we build a great nation by selectively doling out licences to some Birlas or Tatas. We ensured there was no more than 2 car manufacturer, not more than one private company producing steel.
These policies were decided by the very same upper caste elite who thought they new the best. In reality these upper caste mental masturbators were lazy fools who wanted to perpetrate there control. This kind of a system would breed corruption, exploitation even in the most educated society with great heritage.
Today’s India is still struggling to come out its shackles. Unfortunately or fortunately thanks to mass media like television material aspirations of the common man in this country is no less than any average citizen in the western world. Today’s Indian wants to drive the best cars, live in modern apartments, wants to holiday abroad……………
These aspirations are only going to get bigger and bigger. On the other hand we have a very large population struggling for one square meal. This segment is very easily susceptible to further
A great article mate. So many issues to think n to be acted upon. We had enough politics. All of us are looking for something to happen. But I am afraid, nothing will happen unless we do something n more over to be frank, we don't know what to do to change the current scenario. I always pray the god to give me the power for only oneday to kick all the shameless politicians into bay of Bengal. Everyone knows who is causing the havoc of terrorism here. But they want VOTES, VOTES and only VOTES.
