What else can you expect from a 'puppet' who, as somebody named Sri Ganesh had posted on the net, "loses sleep when one Indian Muslim is accused of terrorism in a far off country, while seemingly snores happily when crores of Indians starve – because of high food prices. Also he wants the first right of use of resources for Muslims, while diligent salaried taxpayers seemingly have no rights on the nation’s resources."
The Congress is using its old core competency - the ability to fool some people all the time. In the fifties, it was Nehru's fabian socialism with himself being some sort of lord benefactor to the country. In the late sixties and early seventies, it was Indira Gandhi's garibi hatao and "nationalisation" and the complete corruption of the beaureaucracy. The eighties were Rajiv Gandhi's turn. Actually he was the most decent of the lot. Now it is Mr. Manmohan Singh's turn to show some Nuclear deal fantasies. No cost benefit analysis of the deal has been shown to the nation. If the prime minister had been honest, he would have atleast laid bare all the details in parliment, showing the projected benefits and the drawbacks. Far from it our esteemed prime minister actually made his cronies declare that the IEAE agreement was secret, when at the same time the IEAE leaked it to the press. Whatever be the true worth of the deal, the way the congress has gone about this business is despicable. Vajpayee would have appointed a JPC and would have put the deal to vote in the Parliment.
RE:RE:Nuclear Deal
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 11:57 AM Permalink
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 11:29 AM Permalink I reiterate there is no guarantee in life. Just as there exists a possibility that the UPA and Left will come together post-poll, there exists the possibility of Mayawati and Jayalaithaa tying up with the BJP though they repeaetdly ditched the BJP.
While we cannot forecast the future, we can anticipate future by extrapolating current trends and plan accordingly. This is called vision. In the 80s and 90s, the equity market differentiated old economy and new economy(internet,IT). So old economy stocks and business lost their market valuation. The Ambanis, Tatas and Mittals began to use old economy low valuations to buy companies cheap and expand capacities. Today they are laughing all the way to the bank while the fate of new economy stocks hang in the balance.
This is called vision. This MMS demonstrated he had in good measure in the 90's. Then you knickerwallahs and commies ganged up to call him a US stooge. A decade later, his steps turned visionary. So the trust in his judgment in the field of energy security.
On the other hand we cannot trust the judgment of Karat who sided with China in the Indo-China war or Advani who eulogized Jinnah as a patriot, nationalist and secularist. These are men with stunted vision. One fettered by blind ideology, and the other conditioned by his greed to occupy the PM's chair.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 12:17 PM Permalink
MMS demonstrated no such thing. He was an economic beaureaucrat throught the 70s and 80s and was part and parcel of the license permit raj establishment. In fact a few months before he became prime minister, Mr. Singh even gave a speech (I forget where) in which he extolled the merits of socialism, and reiterated all the tenants of the license-permit raj. The 1991 reforms came as a part of strict conditionalities from the world bank and the IMF as a part of a bail out from our forex exchange crisis. According to various nuclear experts, Mr. Singh starved our nuclear establishment of funds throught his term as finance minister. Now suddenly he discovers the benefit of nuclear energy ?? Every develpped country in the world has been moving away from nuclear energy, and we want to embrace it. Manmohan Singh should give a cost-benefit analysis of the nuclear deal in Parliment, state exactly what percent of our energy needs will be met in the future with nuclear power, whether we can do without it, what are the investments required, and at what strategic cost. He has done no such thing. In fact, it is no longer sure that his goverment has a majority in Parliment, and what does he do - go off and make a deal on the sly
We have depended on the so-called "vision" of leaders for too long - first Nehru's vision, then Indira's vision, then Rajiv's vision and now Mr. Singh's vision, and look at the results.
RE:RE:Nuclear Deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 12:22 PM Permalink
And don't lie about the BJP calling Singh an imperialist stooge in the 1990's. PVN did not have a majority in 1991, and hence one of the first thing he did on economic reforms was to consult the BJP. They were all for dismantlement of the license permit raj, and liberalization, but wanted to go slow on globalization for fear of killing Indian industry. In fact Advani openly praised PVN for the reforms and called him the best prime minister India has had. Donot twist the historicak record to suit your thesis.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by VENURAJA Bowenpalle on Jul 13, 2008 12:48 PM Permalink
PERFECT ANALYSIS. VERY WELL SAID. Remember When Dr.Manmohan singh had devalued the rupee, from Rs16 per dollar to Rs.32/= BJP laughed at him. BJP intelletuals incuding some professors of economics told the educated masses that MMS was ruining the country. But it catalpulted the sagging foreign exchange to unimaginable levels. It lead to a stock market boom. It lead to a astounding increase in foreign direct investment. At the time, in fact much before that China (PRC) had already devalued its currency Yaan at least six times !! And our communists vehemently opposed and criticised Indian government and MMS perticularly that his policies only benefit the rich and such nonsense. You know economics or listen to the person who knows it. That is what exactly P.V.Narasimha Rao had done it. Playing politics is quite different from understanding economics, is it not? You can not say the Congress is old fashioned while BJP and CPI ,TDP,SP,BSP,DMK etc., are progressive parties. Consider for example cell phones,internet,software,computer industry were envisioned and policies were made and brought about Congress party. It was Nehru who called Homi Baba and told him to start building an atomic reactor. Nehru at the time told the parliament that we have to spend money on atomic research because atmoic research can not be accomplished,nor can be understood when we require it in future. That is a vision. MMS can definitely more correct than Karat or Echuri or Mayavati.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 01:09 PM Permalink
(3) As for the telecommunications policy of the Congress, it was a bloody joke. Rajiv gandhi improved it somewhat, in the sense that insted of dialing to an operator for a trunk call, the std facility was introduced. But still, it was a joke. Remember Sukh Ram, congress fellows treated telecommunications as a cash cow, something from which money was to be made. I remember articles on rediff around 1999, as to how the software industry faced a huge threat because of lack of telecommmunications infrastructure. The BJP goverment, particularly, Arun Shourie
RE:RE:Nuclear Deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 01:13 PM Permalink
Jaitley, and Mahajan fixed it, and brought it to world class standards. Sure technology happened to improve during their time, but they created the right policy framework for it to thrive. THe telecommunications sector today is on par with any country in the world, whereas when the congress implemented policy drove the telecommunications sector, it was as bad as the worst country in the world. The DMK fellows are today using it just as Sukh Ram and the congress did - another cash cow.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 02:11 PM Permalink
That was an achievment for you people - Jihadis, not Jaswant Singh. You can keep crowing about it.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 03:24 PM Permalink
Bournvita:
If all you can find in 5 years of NDA rule is a certain Jaswant saving some Indian lives, I am amused at your intellect... Maybe you should start digging in your Congress kitty.... I'm sure you'll find many interesting examples... for example the economy supposedly set right by Manmohan in 1991 was actually vitiated beyond repair by whom?... :-) :-) Ring a bell? .. ;-)
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Bonaventure on Jul 13, 2008 01:59 PM Permalink
kitti gadu .. U have missed the world class standards / precedent set by Jaswant Singh escorting the hardcore terrorists to Pakistan; regarding Sukh Ram .. didn't the BJP absorb him.
RE:RSS knickerwallas don't understand technology.
by John Corniche on Jul 13, 2008 12:41 PM Permalink
VS,
It doesn't take much effort to guess which community you belong to ... by the vitriolic comments you make !
Whether you like it or not, RSS issues frank stateenst without any bias.
"Posing" in the public arena is the asset of Congresswalas ... pose as a patriot, pose as secularist, pose as a technocrat ...
deceiving the common illiterate people of India for last 60 years in the name of "one family".
Mind you, I am no fan of RSS nor BJP. But if you have minimum level of self-respect, you will not suck-up to those Congresswalas who will do anything for that "family"
Congress has done a good thing by going for the nuclear agreement even though it is a bit risky for the party in the coming polls. You need to have a vision to lead a huge nation like ours which is as big as a continent. You need that so called "paradigm shift" in thinking. The country is badly in need of fuel and power. We have thorium only and to develop nuclear reactors which can use thorium (we have plenty of it) at least it may need another two decades and may be more. So if USA is ready to supply the required uranium and also spare parts for our nuclear reactors whenever necessary , under certain conditions then take the uranium. You do need electricity after all. All that talk of India losing its sovereignity is sheer nonsense,humbug. Nobody can control India. India can not lean on anyother country. If it leans on any country even that country will also collapse. Consider Mr.Manmohan Singh as a matured ,intelligent man,well read and also a well known economist. He is far better than these people called Prakash Karat or Sitaram Echury.
These communists also opposed computerisation tooth and nail when Rajive Gandhi talked about NIC and super computers. They even opposed computerisation of railways, bringing computers under OGL and tax sops for the industry etc., I think the nation can repose faith in Manmohan singh's decision to go ahead with nuclear accord. The coming US president in their next election may not support as much as Bush do.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 10:53 AM Permalink
- Even BJP opposed computerisation and telecom revolution when Rajiv Gandhi introduced them.
Even those days, BJP "trivialised the whole issue and brought it to the street level, the way they have done to Nuclear Deal these days.
BJP's statement those day:
"How can we have Computers in the land of Mahatma Gandhi. India should stick to Cottage Industry ?"
Yes. You are right. BJP's great visionary Prime Ministerial Candidate's public statements.
And just few years down the line, when we had computer and telecom revolution brought great boom to the country, BJP claimed the credit for large number of "internet connections" in the country.
BJP issued full page advertisement declaring, that BJP has got more internet connections in 5 years than what Congress could achieve in 50 years.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by VENURAJA Bowenpalle on Jul 13, 2008 11:28 AM Permalink
Very well said , Prabhat Mohanty. I am aware that BJP opposed the computer industry and free sops for computer software.
That is why some political parties are very good as an opposition party rather than as a ruling party. People with a vision are very rare. Communists always oppose all that is progressive and it may be because they need poverty to continue.(So their parties have relevance !!) YOu can observe what is happening to TATA's nano car factory in Singur,West Bengal. How can you think that Mamatha Benergi is all interested in creating employment for the poor , encouraging industry in her state etc., She organised the burning of an effigy of Tata's. During India's china war , Communists and Marxists of India, openly gave slogans in support of China, they wrote poems in Magazines , extolling the virtues of China,praising and encouraging to occupy our motherland. Such is their interest in the country called India and the poor people of India.
How can you trust Communists and believe that what they are telling about Nuclear deal as true? The danger from China claiming entire Arunachal Pradesh,Nagaland and parts of Assam as theirs is looming large. You need to fuel and power to take the country ahead.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:33 AM Permalink
- I wish I were a young man and aware of these facts those days!
I must have been a kid.
Though I like many people who are involved in communist parties for their general intellect and commitment; I will work against communist just for one reason that they welcomed China during our war with china.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by VENURAJA Bowenpalle on Jul 13, 2008 12:27 PM Permalink
Yes,communists wrote slogans on the walls encouraging China to occupy!! according to the news papers of those days. I was shocked to read some magazines from archives of city central library, in which the poets of marxist ,communist party wrote poems extolling the praises of China and encouraging them occupy the lands of India!! It was somewhat unbelivable for a genaration of ours. How can they be that much stupid? When the army was ordered to withdraw in only one secotor in Assam, the advancing Chinese army killed the poor BRO labour !! who were unarmed ,civilians and still at their work in emergency. Such was the collousnes of Indian Communist parties? They should have apolozized for their anti-national behaviour during India's China war. BJP was no good either. While the cargil war was raging on, they put an order for USA for coffins!! as if they can not be manufactured in India. DRDL informed in writing that the bullets for Bofors guns were ready(indegenously developed) and yet they put an order to the Bofors company!! They sent foregin minister along with terrorists to Kandhar while Homeminister ADVANI in his recent book claimed that he has no knowledge that foreign minister was taking away the terrorists !! Mohammed bin Tuglaq has been coming alive thousand times in India's ruling elite but remember Tuglaq was highly intelligent and much ahead of his time, and the fault was his officers who could not implement his ideas in a proper manner.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 12:44 PM Permalink
First of all the Bofors gun doesnot fire "bullets". It fires shells - 155 mm shells. Secondly DRDL is a DRDO lab. It is not in the business of manufacturing shells. Sure it might design shells, but nobody takes a design that has not been corroborated, suddenly creates a new assembly line, and thrusts this new design suddenly into a battlefield. Any sensible goverment will try to buy the shells from a trusted source as its first option. Secondly, I have heard plenty of times about this so called "coffin scam", but have seen no evidence, in the form of either charge sheets or prosecution by the present government. Sure congress supporters use it as a good propaganda tool, but that is about it.
Agree with your point on communists. They are despicable rascals. But the congress took their support for 4.5 years. Were the communists angels all this while ?? Happily they make a convenient scapegoat for the congress now. Don't they ?? Just blame their miserable rule for 4.5 years on the communists
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by oziyana on Jul 13, 2008 12:52 PM Permalink
chup be congressi, you are only talking what congreesing are dolling to the public and taking the same at face value. please go and check the quality of coffin vis a vis price, you will get the answer, further coffin were required in view of Kargil war. My this view is based on a discussion with one of my relative posted in Indian Army.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by VENURAJA Bowenpalle on Jul 13, 2008 01:15 PM Permalink
I have quoted what CAG has in its report to the parliament pointed out. I remember there were all 11 points and all of them concerning the money spent during the cargil war. The auditing watch dog of the government treasury mentioned that the shells as you may call were ready for use , and was informed by DRDL in writing that they were even tested by them for use. The howtizer gun( I do not know why it has not been called "cannon") is 155mm and about 1200 of them were purchased from Sweden by the then Rajiv Gandhi's government on the recommendations of a panel of army officers headed by Genral Sunderji. The CAG report was never fully answered by Vajpayee govt. either in public or in parliament. George Fernadez only said that he was totally unaware, totally ignorant of the fact that an order was kept to USA for coffins. About Bofors bullets(shells) BJP maintained a complete silence, never instituted any enquiery.
Remember the Kargil war, if not for Bofors gun which fires the bullet for 25 km and explodes a few inches before it hits the target, the casualties on Indian side could have been very heavy. Rajiv gandhi was hounded inside and out of parliament for this same Bofors deal.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 01:39 PM Permalink
I am sorry If I have not made myself clear. I repeat the DRDL is not in the business of making weapons. They are in the busness of designing and creating working weapons. Once the DRDL has finished its work, the army conducts extensive trials in the field and has to approve purchase of these weapons. Once this is done the OFB takes over sets up manufacturing lines, and starts production. There is no way the government can buy an essentially untested product, on the strength of some assurance by the DRDL, and send soldiers to the battlefield with these. To give you an example, the Akash missile is being tested for the past 20 years, and I know of atleast three user (Airforce) trials that have been done on it. Only now has the airforce committed to buy it. You might also know that the petty Sonia government foisted a case on George Fernandes for allowing the Navy to buy the Barak missile in 2000, and not giving much credence to the DRDO claim that it will have the Akash on time. We now know that the Akash is finally ready only now.
The CAG is essentially a bean counter. His job is to go through the records and point out to the goverment where money could have been saved. He does not have a holistic view of things, and certainly has no clue on how the Army and DRDO conduct their affairs.
RE:Congress and Nuclear deal
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 11:10 AM Permalink
Well you are a liar. The BJP mentioned phone connections, not internet connections. Why don't you refer to the fact that the BJP built more roads in 5 years than the congress built in 50 years, or will build in the next 50 years, if left to its own devices
But they used to speak their mind. Fearlessly. Never sugar coated. Never in tangent manner.
But this time, after Advani huddled with RSS for long hours, RSS has come out with a statement that smacks of a pseudo-sophistication that has never been the hallmark of RSS.
That RSS would sympathise CPM and Karat in normal sense, is laughable.
But here we are.
RSS feels for Karat. Karat's tear-filled eyes have swept RSS off their feet. RSS feels how Karat feels in his deep corner of his heart.
This new found heart-felt sensibilities of RSS for Karat & co is very admirable.
Now RSS is willing to play a part for a larger cause.
Yes, RSS is now willing to sleep with for a larger cause.
After all, RSS always stood for matrubhoomi. RSS always stood for India.
And RSS now found new ally in Communists.
Can we suspect RSS's love for the country and larger cause?
Nah !
Thanks to Advani, RSS ban gaya gentleman, itar laga ke!
RE:RSS's political volley !
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 10:20 AM Permalink
- Yes, RSS is now willing to sleep with Communists for a larger cause.
RE:RSS's political volley !
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 11:28 AM Permalink
RSS will never deal with communist scum. In Kerala they transfer their votes to the congress in an attempt to defeat the communists. But keep dreaming on. Now that the communists have been isolated, the RSS boot will be on thier head
RE:RSS's political volley !
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:41 AM Permalink
- Well, you keep raising slogans. Your mentor and leader would take a detour.
Like Advani did.
While all pracharaks were busy in muslim-bashing, Advani went praised Jinnha, issued public statements that BJP should get close to muslims and Christians and ran to Sonia's doorstep with folding hands.
Pathetic pracharaks. Always back-stabbed by own leaders.
RE:RE:RSS's political volley !
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 12:31 PM Permalink
and you can post gibberish on rediff, while your leader drains the congress party down the commode.
Ever heard of good cop, bad cop. The pracharaks play the bad cop, while Advani plays the good cop. Earlier it was Vajpayee-Advani, now it is Advani-RSS.
But of course subtelity and nuances are beyond some people. One day enligthenment will come, but by then the Congress party will be in Italy, and the communists in China.
We all know who begged Vajpayee to save her son, when Mr. Raul Gandi was trapped by the FBI.
RE:RSS's political volley !
by kitttigadu on Jul 13, 2008 02:36 PM Permalink
Don't act holier than thou here. Cops need to play "good gop" as well as "bad cop" to control the criminals.
Or are you on the side of criminals here ?? Are you a commie-anarchist thug ??
RE:RSS's political volley !
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:36 AM Permalink
you mean to say that RSS carry their boot on their head? why dont they weat it on their feet? quite funny RSS?
Energy needs of India are increasing exponentially. India would require 500-600 thousand MW of power by 2030 up from 132,110 at present. Thus nuclear power is one of the way forward for India to bridge this gap.
After oil, natural gas prices are next identified by global speculators for cascading price spiral. Economies of states like Gujarat who are significantly dependent on natural gas are going to shortly take a huge hit.
Increased price of oil and gas internationally, issues of climate change associated with coal as well as the breakdown of consensus on big dams has forced the country to re-look the viability of nuclear power.
So the next time we experience load shedding, power cuts, when our industrial growth plunges for lack of power, when our agricultural growth plunges because farmers cannot power their gen-sets, accentuating global inflationary pressures etc we will know who to spit on?
Advani and Prakash Karat and their respective parties are going to end up hate symbols among common people of IndiaKnowi
....... the nuke deal would have been long signed because there would have been no hyde act to begin with. the reason fo rhte hyde act is late rep. lantos's deep suspicion of the anti-hindu gandhi party cozying up to iran.
RE:if the bjp was ruling party today......
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 10:05 AM Permalink
Yes you right Pradip. Omar Adbullah Minister of State of External Affairs of the then NDA government went to record in Big Fight, NDTV exactly what you said.
1. The NDA Govt was negotiating a similar treaty 2. The terms of which were perceptibly worse 3. Though the terms were perceptibly worse, the NDA was prepared to sign.
Further Talbot, US Ambassador at the time of the NDA tenure, in a book revealed, the NDA government had secret negotiations with the US to sign NPT, CTBT, viz. internationally agreeing to permanently give up our rights to test a nuclear bomb.
If Talbot's book is not believe, then the official recordings of Vajpayee (1999) and Jaswant Singh (2000) speeches to the Gen Assembly of the UN, where they promised that India uni-laterally and permanently gave up its right to test.
So who is anti-Hindu, anti-India? Who is opposing an agreement that is termed anti-Muslim and appeasing Mullahs. You might be a knickerwallah, but the record of BJP speals for itself
RE:if the bjp was ruling party today......
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 03:30 PM Permalink
Hello MY CLONE:
You seem to have misunderstood the 123 treaty as your effing 123 points above.
You no doubt will believe not only Talbot, but effing Osama Bin Laden if he provides some sound bytes against NDA.. :-) I for one, am yet to meet a salesman who'd point out that the last customer had actually kicked his wares, and that's the reason he wants you to buy... perhaps your locality contains such idiots.... coz your locality may be that types, since YOU are there.. :-)
Yes, the Left should not only be humiliated, the Left leaders should be stripped off their clothes in public, their head should be clean-shaved and they should be made to carry a signboard on their back saying "We are traitors. This is our punishment."
RE:Punishment for the Left
by Chander Malik on Jul 13, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
Well Said and this RSS is getting cozy to Left now just to out current govt. What a Shame RSS
RE:Punishment for the Left
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 10:28 AM Permalink
Of course Malik you are right especially from Indian interests the RSS cozy themselves to promoting Chinese interests
Yes, the Left should not only be humiliated, the Left leaders should be stripped off their clothes in public, their head should be clean-shaved and they should be made to carry a signboard on their back saying "We are traitors. This is our punishment."
RE:Excusable
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 05:10 AM Permalink
So when they support Congress? You shun Congress?
Let's see whether your theory plays out in the 2009 elections... The Left obviously thought Congress was good for 4 1/2 years... so that should count for a big anti-Congress vote, innit?.. :-)
RE:Excusable
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 10:14 AM Permalink
Good morning my clown!
See you are an early riser? Still chirpy as ever.
So cozy up to the Left. A BJP-Left alliance is India's nightmare. The Left and the BJP are besides weak in their own turf. So a BJP-Left alliance is a Congress/UPA dream.
RE:Excusable
by King of Hyderabad on Jul 13, 2008 06:22 AM Permalink
haha! i hate the congress, but support the N-Deal. but my pet-hate is the left. in future if it means that i have to vote congress to keep the left out, i'll vote congress without batting an eyelid.
RE:CPI(M) had issued 300-odd press statements in the last four years, majority of them criticising the government and 50 others concerning the nuclear deal.
by satyarthi on Jul 13, 2008 01:01 AM Permalink
Is there any other way to befool people of India?
