Army Officer from top to bottom all most all of them are involved in some way or other in corrupt practise. Ifa any one of us have knowledge of its organasation like DGS&D, CSD, MES or CDA who are openely involved in all corrupt practise. Same has affected DRDO as procurement of missile from them will not give commission to any officer. But when procurred from outside India, lot of earning for many officer.
RE:Problem is with Indian Army
by commander hans on Jan 18, 2008 08:23 PM Permalink
that is just like saying that all the dhar's in the world are delinquents..
The IGMPD started in 1983 after India failed to reverse engineer a Russian missile in the seventies, with A P J Abdul Kalam as the head. However, 25 years later the DRDO missiles remain off target. The army cannot rely on Prithvi, a battlefield support missile, unless technological issues affecting its launch readiness are resolved. Trishul, the quick reaction anti-aircraft missile, turned out to be a dud and is now being resurrected with the induction of foreign technology as a stopgap arrangement for the air force, till the Spyder missile systems from Israel finally arrives. Meanwhile this delay for the navy meant importing Israel's Barak missile. While Akash, the medium range surface to air missile with 27-km range, had its first user trial in end 2007, Nag, the anti-tank missile with 4-7 km range, is yet to begin user trials.
UPA has been known to be anti-Kalam. Are they trying to get back at him, by taking potshots at DRDO? It is known fact that DRDO had failed to deliver things on time. But, after Kalam came in, we saw more and more tests going successful and then read about induction of various missiles.
I fail to understand why will the defence forces induct DUD missiles? WHO IS FOOLING WHOM? IS THE UPA TRYING TO PLAY SOME DIRTY GAMES, DO THEY REALIZE THE HARM THEY WILL END UP DOING TO ORGANIZATIONS LIKE DRDO?
RE:RE:Is this an article to give bad press to Kalam?
by Debasis Dhar on Jan 16, 2008 06:11 PM Permalink
Problem is with Indian Army. Army Officer from top to bottom all most all of them are involved in some way or other in corrupt practise. Ifa any one of us have knowledge of its organasation like DGS&D, CSD, MES or CDA who are openely involved in all corrupt practise. Same has affected DRDO as procurement of missile from them will not give commission to any officer. But when procurred from outside India, lot of earning for many officer.
RE:Is this an article to give bad press to Kalam?
by Demo-crazy on Jan 16, 2008 11:20 PM Permalink
I disagree with you. There are corrupt elements in any organization. But, that does not make the entire organization corrupt.
There have been inefficiencies in defence research, but the government must take a fair share of the blame for not providing enough support. The DRDO has consistently lost lot of talent to private sector, or overseas markets, since the pay package was peanuts. This is primarily a fault of the government.
If you want premier talent and cutting edge work, then make sure you pay the right price for it. When even BPO jobs earn more than 20K per month, many scientist jobs get less than that (atleast couple of years ago) in DRDO.
CDAC, which did some pioneering work, C-DOT which revolutionized rural telecom, all suffered due to this lack of foresight of our executive class.
In addition, you will always need to empower such organizations with visionary leaders and free them from government clutches. Give them targets to achieve, when the beat the target, give them excellent bonus and perks.
RE:Is this an article to give bad press to Kalam?
by vijai murugan on Jan 16, 2008 05:13 PM Permalink
Dr. Kalam was good in marketing and with the support of government, he was able to sell some hardware to indian armed forces. The government should have scrapped IGMDP long time ago. countries like pakistan started their programme in late 90s and stole technologies from other countries and developed good missiles.
Dear Friends, Without going into what has happened behind, Please do not blame APJ and DRDO for anything and everything. It was the policy of successive Govts not to go for any foreign technology in missiles and morever, we were under sanctions after Pokhran test of 1974.
This article is totally exaggerated in telling that DRDO failed. Our indigenous, Agni, Prithvi etc have been well tested and inducted in army, navy. They have not failed. What about Brahmos that was made with Russia?
This writer speaks as if foreign powers were more than willing to help India out from 1980. Bull shit. If someone comes and points fingers at DRDO or APJ, please don't blind believe and think.
RE:Please stop blamin APJ
by aesthetic guy on Jan 16, 2008 04:41 PM Permalink
wake up man! No one is above 'criticism'. And every one has right to criticize. Don't live in the dream .. although great APJ urges u to 'dream'.
RE:RE:Please stop blamin APJ
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:44 PM Permalink
I am not supporting APJ here. But please tell me which foreign powers would have helped India during 1980s after first Pokhran test with missile technology. US? China? If you are logical, it is clear that these powers did not want to transfer technology to us and so we were compelled to go indigenous. It was sheer compulsion.
RE:RE:RE:Please stop blamin APJ
by on Jan 16, 2008 06:36 PM Permalink
In the beginning The Soviet Union and Russia have supplied everything to India. India did nothing on her own. Later after BJP came into power India has started buying from Israel, UK, France, not from Russia.
RE:Please stop blamin APJ
by aesthetic guy on Jan 16, 2008 04:48 PM Permalink
One option that India had at that time was Israel .. however that was never explored due to India's Palestine policy.
RE:Please stop blamin APJ
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:49 PM Permalink
Please note that that is Govt's policy and not DRDO policy. It was Congress Govt policy to support Palestine. So, who is at fault? Govt or DRDO?
RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:37 PM Permalink
Please first introspect and then comment. You are speaking as if foreign powers like US, China were trying to help India build missiles from 1980. Both powers were trying to curb India after 1974 Pokhran test. How could DRDO possibly procure technology from west under sanctions. Please think and then comment.
RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by on Jan 16, 2008 06:28 PM Permalink
India got the Missile technology from the Soviet Union and Russia, who have supplied everything India needed. Nothing was developed by India, but due to Kalam and his team India had the big ego that it can do reverse engineering and develop all avionics, related IT etc, but DRDO failed both in the case of Sukhoy and the missles and wasted a number of years.
RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:40 PM Permalink
Can you give stats to show that DRDO are full of tamils? DRDO can have only scientists and not military people. The whole world knows and acknowledges our contribution for developing Agni, Prithvi and Brahmos.
RE:RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by commander hans on Jan 18, 2008 08:27 PM Permalink
dude we are talking about the pathetic equipment that has to be used by the man on the battlefield not the drdo bums who are sitting in their kota stone building...
RE:RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by on Jan 16, 2008 06:42 PM Permalink
14 nuclear scientist who were responsible for the India's second nuclear testing on 1998 were all Tamils. It is well known that Tamils do not recruit non-Tamils. I have seen in Moscow all Indian sent there by DRDO and other defence related organizations for higher studies or trainnings were all Tamils.
RE:RE:Reorganize DRDO with Generals/Air-Marshal/Commander at top
by ankur kulshrestha on Jan 22, 2008 06:52 PM Permalink
it might be interesting to note that almost zero percent of technical inputs in brahmos are indian. if today russia pulls out of the project, we might find it hard even to twiddle our thumbs...
Mr. Bharat Verma and other friends here crying hoarse, first of all check the basic facts before venturing to view biased opinions as the biblical truth. Why was the DRDO set up and by whom? Has the DRDO failed the policy makers? Have the policy makers had the foresight and vision to ask for a clear deliverable from DRDO in any of the projects so far? Is it not a bitter fact, the end user be it the army, navy or the air force keeps changing the goal post i.e., changing the requirements and specifications midway during the development. Is it not a bitter fact, the higher ups in the defence forces dance to the tunes of the Ministry of Defence bureaucrats and insist on importing items even though they are untested and unproved. Is it not a bitter fact, for ages no component could be procured from any of the western bloc countries because of their suspicion of the indian nuclear capability and later after the nuclear test in 1998 even academic institutions that were helping out DRDO with some basic inputs were put under ban. It is easy for arm chair critics like mr. verma to write reams and reams but the bitter truth is but for DFRL and CFTRI in mysore our soldiers would be facing far more food related problems in siachen. Finally people like Mr. Verma should stop fooling the masses when he compares the armaments and men in pakistan with that of the indian armed forces. Today a bunch of terrorists have overrun a garrison in wazirstan in pakistan. If pakistan has such ver
RE:The military failed DRDO not the other way round
by commander hans on Jan 18, 2008 08:29 PM Permalink
appanjee you obviously werent in the army...or navy or air force...so i really dont think ur opinion counts have you even bothered to chk what the drdo has done or shall i say not done...
RE:The military failed DRDO not the other way round
by aesthetic guy on Jan 16, 2008 04:30 PM Permalink
Mr. Verma is absolutely correct. The point is not to point fingers, but to learn from mistakes. DRDO has failed miserably in all fronts - thats the hard truth - People must realize that. Not a single world class war-ready product emerged from DRDO's labs over the years (should I say decades?). They have to take a hard look at the way they operate and must be very agile and opportunistic with a single minded ambition to deliver.
RE:The military failed DRDO not the other way round
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:42 PM Permalink
Please tell me which foreign powers would have helped India with missile technology from 1980. US? China? Please understand that these super powers were prime architects of curbing India's technology by sanctions during 1980 and Cold War.
RE:The military failed DRDO not the other way round
by on Jan 16, 2008 06:31 PM Permalink
India got the Missile technology from the Soviet Union and Russia, who have supplied everything India needed. Nothing was developed by India, but due to Kalam and his team India had the big ego that it can do reverse engineering and develop all avionics, related IT etc, but DRDO failed both in the case of Sukhoy and the missles and wasted a number of years. DRDO claimed that it could develop all computer programs for Sukhoy, but after 7 years it had admitted that it could not do it. I guess except for the raw manpower DRDO did nothing for Brahmos at all. It could not fit nuclear weapons on missiles. That was the reason India could do little during Kargill invasion against Pakistan.
Bit silly, your argument. The decision to develop these things in-house was not DRDO's decision - it's government policy. DRDO was simply charged with developing technology, a lot of which it was not equipped to do. Agreed, DRDO's had a large number of failures along with its successes, but suppose I charge you with making a car, from scratch, with only sketchy drawings of existing foreign technology, and tell you to develop this car using only the engineering and design talent available in your family, how high do you think your success rate is going to be? Blame does have to go somewhere, but it must go to successive governments who wanted Made in India tags on every piece of military equipment. Come to think of it, was that even such a bad idea? Its execution was poor, not the concept itself, and the stubbornness with which they stuck to this principle. If they'd swallowed their pride once in a while, it may have been easier. DRDO had very little to do with this. Please don't write sensationalist headlines - get to the truth instead.
RE:Missing the point
by Red Pascal on Jan 16, 2008 03:54 PM Permalink
Not quite Mr Kondiker- for instance the DRDO's brief has been to develop a Tejas LCV- it wants to even design the G suit and the helmet for the pilot,and the engine and the weapons and the software whereas in several areas the DRDO has the option to go for existing top of the line off the shelf products but it causes cost over runs and delays by insisting on developing everything inhouse- which is not what their brief is. The brief is to get a plane,who designs the pilots helmet and g suit is not in the brief and the Eventually they had to go in for an external engine as they could not develop one in house, some practical steps help. For LCV( or Tejas) v1 they should have looked at as much as they could in house and then looked at increasing indigenisation in v2, if they had taken that approach Tejasv1 would have been inducted and v2 would have been in advanced stage of development, instead we sit waiting for something to come out of the blackbox called DRDO-not too sure that by the time the aircraft comes out if it would meet the requirements or even the specifications it was designed for.
RE:Missing the point
by Red Pascal on Jan 16, 2008 03:58 PM Permalink
The Arjun MBT apart from the decade delays and flaws in weight, size and accuracy of gun had a huge deficinecy- it was too wide for transport by train ! Something that they should have figured out in 20 years of development of the tank ? And at the end the product's user has decided to buy tanks from outside rather than look at inducting this faulty piece. DRDO needs to step up and deliver on time and within cost and to the specs they promise- they never do.
RE:Missing the point
by ankur kulshrestha on Jan 22, 2008 07:00 PM Permalink
actually what drdo did was built a world class factory for building the single car first. then a dozen or so beautiful conference rooms with lovely landscaping and imported furniture. by this time the deadline was over and budget was overshot by 200% so the project was shelved as tata launched nano only for a lakh.
The difference between technology transfer and building from scratch is that the person who starts from scratch called reinventing the wheel also develops whole lot of other technology, techniques that will be unique solution to the problems, would have intricate knowledge far greater as to be able to easily develop and make further technologies spin-offs easily.
Now with technology transfer, we may not have competent scientist who truly understand the quality, the scope, all aspects as to even upgrade the technology.
A example may be given NASA space program was started by genius scientist of German origin, they say those old people of NASA, when the left after they kept having problems, because they lack the genius scientist who knew from scratch how to make rocket, etc. It is very important such competent people. Especially going to the next level of technology
Israel a country whose technology base is from the USA wants joint venture in order to be able to gain our technology, because they know we have genius scientist and will solve the problem in no time. Even the Russians know this because they know from scratch. But to spend 2.47 Billion(~10,000 corers on a joint venture with Isreal , means more then the over 25 years of budget for DRDO just(2000 cr). So why does not government spend such sums in Joint ventures research? Is it kickbacks?
RE:Thanking our genius scienist who know how to make weapons from scratch for giving Air defence system like Akash.
by Sanjay on Jan 16, 2008 02:22 PM Permalink
We should remember the Falkland war in which French gave British the code to disable its missile, as to the danger of buying off the self, we could be render defenceless depending on foriegn missile.
Further List of some major technologies develop by DRDO Agni III,II,I, Privithi I,II, Bhramos joint venture, SLBM, Akash is nuclear capable, advance air defense, Development of Astra Nag has been trailed, but improved performance march, Arjun, ram jet, Radars all types phase array, long range, also NBC warfare, food pack, electronic warfare, rifiles, artilry, munitions etc.
Also this gives us the ability to steal, re-engineer, foriegn goods by knowing the basic technology.
All accomplished on a shoestring budget, by our genious scientist who are making the country secure in defence related matters.
RE:Thanking our genius scienist who know how to make weapons from scratch for giving Air defence system like Akash.
by on Jan 16, 2008 04:25 PM Permalink
Brhamos is Russian, so are the engines of the Missiles. DRDO could not set up the avionics for the Missiles or for Sukhoy ( so much credit to the IT power of India). They could not fit nuclear weapons on missiles either.
DRDO had the option to bring in Russians in 1992 when the Soviet Union fell apart, but it did not. China did, and as a result China is at the top. False ego of DRDO has ruined India.
RE:Thanking our genius scienist who know how to make weapons from scratch for giving Air defence system like Akash.
by venkat on Jan 16, 2008 04:48 PM Permalink
Brahmos is guided by India's computer system. It is not completely russian. Please tell me where DRDO would have got engines apart from Russia. On one hand, you say that they did not approach foreign help, then criticize Russian venture. No US or China would have helped India during Cold War.
RE:Thanking our genius scienist who know how to make weapons from scratch for giving Air defence system like Akash.
by on Jan 16, 2008 06:33 PM Permalink
I am not asking India to go to China or USA or UK, they were and still are our enemies. However, after 1992 India just like China could get as many russian scientists as it wanted but because of the objections raised by Kalam and his team and their tall claims, India has lost the opportunity and China gained.
RE:RE:Thanking our genius scienist who know how to make weapons from scratch for giving Air defence system like Akash.
by Sanjay on Jan 17, 2008 12:34 AM Permalink
We all have great respect for people in military as I also have many relatives serving.
You may not understand Tata and Ashok leyland trucks are general by private sector they can afford to give kickbacks to the Babus. Most of ordinance factory stuff is made by DRDO.
So you understanding what some are saying . We have nothing against military, but against Babus. It has to be proven that Babus initciate projects foreign, but never get T-90 tank,nor Bofor guns technology transfer.
We need the military to synergy with DRDO not look at each other as enemy. Further till one has a better system then the current system no one is expected to use that new system.
DRDO has many contribution,and this helping in critical areas where technology was denied to us. Therefor, because of sanctions technology denials, we had to produce our own missiles, like agni seris, missile defence and others. This author seems very slanted that he does not speak of the success of DRDO, nor the failures of frogein equipment.. But twenty-five years and 2000 corer, but the joint venture with Isreal will would take around 2.7 billion dollar around 10,000cr.
