there is one little kept secret in frica.you will find all foreign nationalities marrying locals led by whites but also by asians like chinese. but try to find an indian who is married to a local black. plese remember that they are settled there for hundreds of years.
the unpleasnd truth is that indians there are racists and treat the local blacks as inferior.you will hardly find any indian doing any charitable work(like running school,hospitals leave alone building roads etc) for locals . this is outrageous as the indins are the richest community in most africn nations.the same indians are well known -even today-for their slave-like attitude to the whites of whatever nationlities. all this make lethal cocktail for the indian community.they are the most disliked-even hated - foreign community in africn countries.
RE:why indians dont marry locals in africa?
by Manjula A on Jan 11, 2008 11:54 AM Permalink
Not just that. I've heard Indian shop-owners and other Indian businessmen are big frauds in Kenya and that they take advantage of the innocent and unsuspecting public and loot them like anything.
RE:why indians dont marry locals in africa?
by on Jan 11, 2008 01:13 PM Permalink
I do not concur to your post. I have beento India andthe Indians in that country definitely express acertain amount of friction between the two races. I was told, "oh! you are from Kenya where all those black people live right?" Growing up in Kenya (with my origins in Guarat), I have had quite a big portion of my friend circle being African and we do not use the colour of skin as a criterion for choosing friends.
I agree that Indians live a fairly prosperos life; but I also believe that it is because theyhave each others backs covered in that country. I know many financially humble families who live fairly affluet lives because they've been looked ot for by the wealthy Indians contrary to the Afrcan people who want power and money at whatever cost.
The reason that Indians do not give to charity organisations is because they do not trust them. Corruption s a huge factor in that country; noone knows where the money is going which is why they themselves do have charity organisations such as KSIVC AKDN Bilal etc etc.
The African people (in the working population) are very intelligent and thus very respected by the Indians. I know Kikuyus' and Luos' who are best of friends despite they tribal and political differences. This goes to show that greed is more common at the top of the food chain as opposed to the working class population.
RACISM DOES NOT EXIST IN KENYA, TRIBALISM DOES AND SHOULD BE ERADICATED OR AT LEAST CURBED!!!
RE:why indians dont marry locals in africa?
by ravi kumar on Jan 12, 2008 09:44 AM Permalink
I appreciate what you have said. It gives a very close view about the kenyan life. And I think much more on the expected lines.
RE:why indians dont marry locals in africa?
by on Jan 11, 2008 01:12 PM Permalink
I do not concur to your post. I have beento India andthe Indians in that country definitely express acertain amount of friction between the two races. I was told, "oh! you are from Kenya where all those black people live right?" Growing up in Kenya (with my origins in Guarat), I have had quite a big portion of my friend circle being African and we do not use the colour of skin as a criterion for choosing friends.
I agree that Indians live a fairly prosperos life; but I also believe that it is because theyhave each others backs covered in that country. I know many financially humble families who live fairly affluet lives because they've been looked ot for by the wealthy Indians contrary to the Afrcan people who want power and money at whatever cost.
The reason that Indians do not give to charity organisations is because they do not trust them. Corruption s a huge factor in that country; noone knows where the money is going which is why they themselves do have charity organisations such as KSIVC AKDN Bilal etc etc.
The African people (in the working population) are very intelligent and thus very respected by the Indians. I know Kikuyus' and Luos' who are best of friends despite they tribal and political differences. This goes to show that greed is more common at the top of the food chain as opposed to the working class population.
RACISM DOES NOT EXIST IN KENYA, TRIBALISM DOES AND SHOULD BE ERADICATED OR AT LEAST CURBED!!!
RE:why indians dont marry locals in africa?
by V H on Jan 12, 2008 07:39 AM Permalink
Surajit, Why should Indians be forced to marry locals? You do not become a great humanitarian by marrying locals. I think Indians do not marry outside because we have strong sense of what our culture is and like to keep that culture at home, while adopting to the local culture on the outside. Racism is in the act of discrimination not in the act of marriage. Every other argument against indians for not marrying locals is in a sense racist argument!!
i read the article by diplomat. I am amazed at some of the statements. He saya Indians have been honest businessmen and created wealth by sweat. Oh yeah! Why these very Indians then don't do that at their cities like Jaipur, Jodhpur, Bikaner, Uttaranchal and Mehsana? It means somewhere they find Kenya offers more tranquil place, more resources, better systems or better quality of life. Indian Businessmen have gone their have no divine right and went their without any invitation by Africans. I am privy to incidences of subjugation of local people. Punjabis have called local people to serve them at parties which ran till 3 am in night and treated Africans as if they were slaves. unlike Britishers who ruled India, Indians have made no contribution towards infrastructure, law and order or science and technology. They have gone only for trade. Besides, material wealth may not be objective of so many Africans! So forget this crap about Rich Indians in there etc. Britishers have made India progressive after they have made their homeland developed. Indians can't improve their BIMARU states and looting Kenya
RE:Kenya
by V H on Jan 12, 2008 07:47 AM Permalink
Milind - looks like the convent you went to school did not do the right thing. Britishers killed Indians and wiped out local cultures and agriculture. They introduced nepotism, master/slave racism and babu culture that is destroying the country today. They did infrastructure not out of some benevolence. Rails where built to carry the loots from a big country like india. Indians in Kenya are not rulers... they are just business men... rest of your argument is plain joke.
RE:Kenya
by SreenivasaRao K. on Jan 11, 2008 10:13 AM Permalink
Not withstanding what's said about ill-treatment of the locals by the wealthy rich Indians, it's important to note that Indians are only traders still and do not run governments a la the British in India and hence cannot build infrastructure or any of those things mentioned in Milind's comments. Of course, there is no doubt they can contribute to the country's welfare through individual philathrophic actions and it's important to make such contributions in their own interest and in the interest of their community.
RE:RE:Kenya
by patrick on Jan 30, 2008 12:42 PM Permalink
well personally i have nothing against indians.you cant just generalize.you may have had one bad experience but surely its not right to say all of them are that way.likewise why dont you generalize about africans ive ghad plenty of bad experiences with my own africans.starting from our own african racism from waiters wher they serve the whites first. and its like your part of the furniture.dont get me started. my father worked for the government for many years and then retired.when he did non of his african or fellow kenyan friends came to see him not even once yet when he was in power they all knew him.the only people who gave him work were his indian freinds.up to date.thats wht we as a family are surviving from i owe them for that.if i wer to ever see an indian in trouble i would help them in a heart beat.i respect them.as people.try running a small business like a kiosk before you judge them or talk and you would be a fool to do so.lets face it they work very hard and support each other and it pays theres no magic formulae us africans should do the same instead of critisizing and complaining.we cant point fingures when we ourselves are hacking each other and hate each other based on tribe.why anyone watchin that would think we are barbaric and would look down on us.since when is success a bad thing.
RE:Kenya
by Manjula A on Jan 11, 2008 11:56 AM Permalink
Indians may have committed frauds and made dishonest money but please don't compare them with the imperialist. Indians do not practice torture and Genocide like most of the colonisers.
RE:Kenya
by sewa mumbai on Jan 11, 2008 10:06 AM Permalink
Milind I think you need to consult a Psychiatrist immediately. In case you are not aware you can write to me.
RE:RE:Kenya
by Milind on Jan 14, 2008 10:31 AM Permalink
Dear Sevas and Provu rais, Please read other comments which have been posted after me. Indians do not marry locals and treat them as inferiors. It means they do not want to mingle with the society, that has offered them chance to thrive in country! Indians only exploit Africa. They don't want to mix with culture, who allowed them to come and take advantage of resources. It is the same mentality that people from North of Vindhyas employ when they cannot develop own infrastructure, but can thrive on that developed by someone else, and then spit in the same plate they eat in.
RE:Kenya
by Hind on Jan 11, 2008 10:38 AM Permalink
Brithishers looted India and left only after the pressures of 2nd world war and and only when cost benift state of remaining in India went negative. Just check History how many severe famines india suffered during british rule. And british provided infrastructure is a myth, they were rulers they had to do something . They only provided only that much , through which they can loot resources to UK and easy tranportation and some some india personnel in police and administration at lower levels to control vast country. See they did not leave Hongkong 1990, because it was cost benificial. Its all different other story even after indipendence we lagged because the Indian Political class also followed the same divide and rule to worser level, mandal,kamadals, st ,sc,bc, minority ... and the time of sardar patel ,lal Bhadur and PVN where country saw unification,revolution in agriculture and Open market were were short lived and wiped from the public memory by the great Dynasty. to Some extent Jawaharlal can be exempted for laying foundations to great instituions but big political and foriegn policy blunders commited by him drawf everything.
Iam amazed at what I am seeing. We go through a rough time and you turn this around to suite yourselves. If you are an indian who was born in Kenya, are you a kenyan or an Indian. If you see yourself different from the rest of kenyan then you should pack and leave because we all are kenyans of different races and tribes. if you can not respect the people who have live in the country you have invaded, then you are trending on very wrong grounds. I did not mind the Indians being around because being a kikuyu I know they offer good competation but with 5% of the population, you realise you are too few to be arrogant. Kenyans are very proud of their country thats why we will not entertain any one who uses the situation now to suite theselves. Kikuyus, kisiis, etc have been killed! killed! their businesses were looted too. all you see is - Indians are being targeted and how many were killed? please this is not the time for playing victim as a race. If you are rich, as you say, what about the europeans and also very rich africans here, when robbed, what do they say? Please dont get arrogant on us because this is kenya not india. Try it in Tanzania it may work because maybe maybe they have patience with arrogancy.
RE:WHAT
by Kaushik Das on Jan 11, 2008 03:07 PM Permalink
Hmm.. Although Rajendran's comment was thoughtful, I do find substance in our African mate's comment, too. . You see - many, many people are being killed here and he is just trying to say this: Don't put it across as if only Indians are being killed. . There is this other point also - since Kenya is the adopted country of these indians, they should work towards a solution there instead of trying to escape the situation.
RE:WHAT
by ajayakumar nathani on Jan 11, 2008 11:30 AM Permalink
It is high time Africans come out of their inferiority complexes and stop this kind of an empty talk. The learned comment by Rajendran should be commended and learn a cue from to come out of this complex.
Hot headedness is the last thing poor nations can ill afford
I dont know how you came to know about this site, if you are a Kenyan. I don't find any arrogance in this article, but there is arrogance in the comments written by people from India, in this forum. At the same time there are mature comments from ethnic Indians born in Africa. Wherever there is unrest due to communal clashes, this will be the outcome and unfortunately its happening in Kenya now. Its true that human life is lost in your country, but we shouldn't fail to see the forces behind this. The cultural/tribal pride in your country is just fueled by the forces waiting to jump on the richness in your country and share the power among themselves. Those hyenas are just waiting for your brothers to settle score by blood. I would like to politely emphasis here that its not that Indians or the Indian-Kenyans are arrogant. Its just they are trying to look for an escape from the SITUATION in the country overpowered by other indigenous tribes. The pain caused by the loss of ones mother or sister is the same for anyone no matter what is the color of his skin.
I was born and raised in Tanzania. I lived there till 94 after which I moved to the US. I don't recall experiencing any violence in my 16 years in Tz. Don't know how the situation has changed since. I recall them being a few of my life's best years.
Nairobi is never safe, election or no election. I was robbed of my passport and t/cs in broad daylight in the busy moi avenue. i have seen 2/3 kenyans grabbing a helpless asian and robbing him while crowds of africans just staring. Tanzania is a much peaceful and a safer country. Tanzania is a paradise with ngorongoro crater, serengeti park and various other parks and above all mount kilimanjaro. only Tanzania is not properly promoted. in comparison kenya is not a paradise but a hell hole where you live all crouched up and afraid to walk on the street in nairobi after 6 pm.
RE:kenya paradise?
by rocky singh on Jan 10, 2008 05:31 PM Permalink
Mr.Haresh is right. Africans were never & will never be living in a civilised society, leave aside calling them one. So why this hulla gulla. Lets tame our politicians first. As usual, its a politically motivated game. But, the million dollar question: WHO WILL BELL THE CAT?
On a broader time horizon, pl dont take unnecessary anxiety thinking that the country has gone to dogs !! it happens sometimes. Social equilibrium needs to adjust its Point of CG.. if the fulcrum goes beyond !!!
the article is amazingly well written.
Few indians there are not sacrosanct...Being an exporter , I know that there are few (indian) thugs too. All across Africa,some Indians are stinkingly rich , be in In Kenya, South Africa,Botsowana, Nigeria or DRC.But being brown coloured, mingling with dark skinned coloured local people does not come naturally to us . Hence all the PR and perception Problems that makes Indian the vulnerable most.Indian soft attitude matters a lot. Major threat is from China.. Chinese govt is surreptitiously planning to grab African resources.They want african markets too. But everywhere , Indian business men are there as an impediment to neo chinese Biz imperialism. So I guess there are some deft surreptitious instigation from them though this will not catapult to such big violence.
We could not learn from Uganda crisis.
I guess Indian govt should act proactively. Only People like Narendra Modi can handle any mishandling of Indians abroad... Probably I exaggerated a bit.. but there are some truth..honestly i have seen other spineless selfabsorbing indian politicians..Hope we find a solid leader like him..........Subrato Chaudhuri
RE:solutions
by Yerra Burra on Jan 10, 2008 07:15 PM Permalink
One more well written article from Mr. Srinivasan. However, I am disappointed that he has not touched upon the strategic importance of this country/continent to India and the moves of the Chinese over there. I think there is significant scope for the Indian govt to play a DISCRETELY active role and protect the interests of India.
RE:solutions
by Yerra Burra on Jan 10, 2008 07:18 PM Permalink
Another well written article from this seasoned diplomat. However I am disappointed that he has not touched upon the strategic importance of this country/continent to India. I think there is significant scope for India to play an discretely active role over there to protect India's interests.
RE:solutions
by Islamistruth on Jan 10, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
If modi given chance then hindus will kill muslims @ one place and muslims will kill hindus @ one place the result will be the harmony of the country will be lost
RE:solutions
by Kaushik Das on Jan 11, 2008 03:10 PM Permalink
Gujarat is the most harmonious state in India and wherever muslims live anywhere in the world, they cause disharmony. So, stop this bakwaas.
RE:solutions
by Yerra Burra on Jan 10, 2008 07:21 PM Permalink
Another well written article from this seasoned diplomat. However I am disappointed that he has not touched upon the strategic importance of this country/continent to India. I think there is significant scope for India to play an discretely active role over there to protect India's interests.
RE:RE:solutions
by Yerra Burra on Jan 10, 2008 07:26 PM Permalink
Another well written article from this seasoned diplomat. However I am disappointed that he has not touched upon the strategic importance of this country/continent to India. I think there is significant scope for India to play an discretely active role over there to protect India's interests.
On a broader time horizon, pl dont take unnecessary anxiety thinking that the country has gone to dogs !! it happens sometimes. Social equilibrium needs to adjust its Point of CG.. if the fulcrum goes beyond !!!
the article is amazingly well written.
Few indians there are not sacrosanct...Being an exporter , I know that there are few (indian) thugs too. All across Africa,some Indians are stinkingly rich , be in In Kenya, South Africa,Botsowana, Nigeria or DRC.But being brown coloured, mingling with dark skinned coloured local people does not come naturallyto us . Hence all the PR Problems.Indin softness matters a lot. Major threat is from China.. Chinese govt is surreptitiously planning to grab African resources.They want african markets too. But everywhere , Indian business men are there as an impediment to chinese Biz imperialism. So I guess there are some deft surreptitious instigation from them though this will not catapult to such big violence. I guess Indian govt should act proactively. Only People like Narendra Modi can handle any mishandling of Indians abroad... Probably I exaggerated a bit.. but there are some truth..honestly i have seen other spineless selfabsorbing indian politicians..Hope we find a solid leader like him..........Subrato Chaudhuri
RE:Not to worry much
by Islamistruth on Jan 10, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
If modi given chance then hindus will kill muslims @ one place and muslims will kill hindus @ one place the result will be the harmony of the country will be lost
I was born in Kenya and spent eight years of my life In Mombasa besides my father was more "Kenyan" than "Indian" having spent 27 years of his life in Mombasa and more fluent in "swahili" than "Hindi".My father expired recently as also my mother and i am sure dad would have been surprised at the violence in this "African Paradise" of work and enjoyment. I, personally had been to Mombasa in 1988 and couldn't decipher any hidden illfillings among the locals or indians since i mixed freely with them in discotheques and had casual conversation.No African robbed me, neither was i "Foreigner charged", hence this sudden burst of ethnic violence is hard to comprehend.
The writer can write on Kenya buy why not on Indian Politicians too. Politicians are born same in any part of the Country. Why do we forget the riots (so called) of 1984 & else where thousands of innocent sikhs were brutually murdered by the groons of the ruling party of that era. Let us first look into ourselves then worry about others.
Though I pity the situation in Kenya, I have just returned from there in early december before the elections & violence.
RE:Paradise in danger
by rajeesan chellappan on Jan 10, 2008 05:12 PM Permalink
You have written nicely.... lets rectify ourselves before we criticise others... I do accept... this violence in Kenya is temporary.... and African politicians have better ethics than indian politicians.. When it comes to looting... in Africa only poor for food and basic survival loot... in India.. all white collar politicians are looting our wealth.. and we all compensate that in the name of Hefty taxes.. Lets clean our face before pointing out at others.. your are very right friend I appreciate....
RE:Paradise in danger
by Sumeer Sharma on Jan 10, 2008 12:58 PM Permalink
Well said Rocky Singh. Other incidents to be remembbered are the Sikh massacre in Jammu and the never ending pogroms against the Hindus in J&K and North East.
RE:Paradise in danger
by Akram on Jan 10, 2008 01:56 PM Permalink
Rocky singh & sumeer were not mentioning about Gujarat Genocide 2002 sponosred by state government OR Mumbai riots 1992.
RE:Paradise in danger
by Rudresh Thakur on Jan 10, 2008 04:37 PM Permalink
they r neither blind nor hypocrite.. but my dear friend ur r reluctant to accept that u guys enticed the whole situation... and when things went out of control, and u guys were out numbered, u started blaming us now tel me who r "REAL hypocrite"
RE:RE:Paradise in danger
by Kaushik Das on Jan 11, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
1. which masjid? Are you trying to say that the dilapidated structure in ayodhya where no muslim prayed was a masjid? If you can kill for the bloodless ruin of such a building, there is something wrong with your sense of good and evil. 2. There was no such kidnapping. This story was propagated by muslims like you who wanted to justify their acts based on reutable 'provocations'. . Also, are you trying to say that muslims killing, when incited, is right and hindus killing, when incited, is wrong? This is again proof that your sense of right and wrong is dangerous for the world.
RE:Paradise in danger
by Ankush on Jan 10, 2008 02:02 PM Permalink
its hypocrites :-) and oaf, no government sponsored riot would have got rid of only a measly 750 odd Muslims in a 3 months long operation
RE:Paradise in danger
by Kaushik Das on Jan 11, 2008 03:14 PM Permalink
akram, your swingers are not working any more. 2002 was a reaction to your killing our children by burning them alive in a train. 1992 riots were started by muslims, not hindus. So, if you are trying to get in these incidents where they don't belong, i think you have some hidden agenda.
RE:RE:Paradise in danger
by rocky singh on Jan 10, 2008 05:22 PM Permalink
apne dharam ka theka rocky ne liya hai so usne mudda uthaya hai, Akram to apne dharam ka le le theka!
RE:Paradise in danger
by waheeda on Jan 11, 2008 12:55 PM Permalink
Mr Rokey singh ........ IF i show u some fact from religious book then will u accept : from the book gita ?? will and please tell me howmany people want to know the fact , with prove not like other you can fonfirm with holy gita and think ???
RE:Paradise in danger
by Gulrose on Jan 10, 2008 02:11 PM Permalink
Mr Rocky Singh and Mr Sumeer Sharma - Please dont misinterpret what Mr.Sreenivasan has written. Majority of the Indians feel bad about what happened to Sikhs in 1984 and also to Sikhs and Hindus in J & K and North East. Now Kenya is in news and many Indians are really affected as can be seen from the news. So just give a perspective of the Kenyan situation for Indian public Mr. Sreenivasan must have written. I dont find anything wrong in his evaluation of the present situation. Men accept criticism where it is due, be men.
RE:Paradise in danger
by Dev on Jan 10, 2008 04:41 PM Permalink
as know as i believe singapore is about 20-30sq km, where india is so huge with no. 1 populated in world :)
