He is the only person in BJP rank and file supported the deal ,President Kalam elected by BJP support also supported and I am sure if Atalji is allowed to talk by the present leadership of BJP then he will also support .The present leadership of BJP has forgotten RAM RAM and taken the chanting of mao Mao with the left .
pkl. afternoon, 1.50pm Wednesday, 16th July 2008. D. Goel. I for one find that the entire discussion now carried by the large number of knowledgeable scientists and diplomats tries to hedge the ugly fact that Indian Nuclear capabilities have not been adequately harnessed by our liberal policy makers. Perhaps , our scientists and design Engineers also have not shown greater commitment or application in harnessing vast Thorium minerals all these yrs. This is true that US designers wish to sell Their faded equipments, and outworn NPT and CTBT on us by the bait of this Nuclear largesse! We are still for all practical purposes treated as a non-Nuclear Weapon havenot state.There is no evidence of any especial concession in this socalled India Specific 123 nuclear Agreement. D. Goel
There is so much confusion on the whole issue particularly w.r.t. Hyde Act etc. which would be binding on India. Why should we stick our neck out to U.S.regulations. Just forget them and have the deal elsewhere or develop your own technology. This is what India should do. Never surrender our sovereignity.
Mishra there is no drinking water in your UP and Bihar and you want nuclear deal with America? Very Funny! The caste system is killing India specially the states of UP and Bihar. UP and Bihar are the most castiest states in India and hence their pathetic status. But the castiest elite in these states will continue to deny this fact and keep on living in a world of imaginary, self-declared greatness (which nobody else agrees with). These castiest elite in UP and Bihar are on track to become the new dalits of India. The caste system is on track in killing India. Indians should stop wasting time on China and Pakistan and instead focus on eliminting the caste system before it eliminates India.
RE:Mishra there is no drinking water in your UP and Bihar
by sumit mathur on Jun 16, 2008 10:08 PM Permalink
Mr Kumar, I cannot but laugh on your comment and other similar comments. How can you relate these 2 issues. Do you want the government to just work on 1 issue at a time? What were you thinking when you write this...? India should definately get Energy security now.. Don't wait on developing everything on our own. We got the money and we want the energy.If the terms of the condition does not harm us then go for it.
RE:Mishra there is no drinking water in your UP and Bihar
by Harimau Iyer on Mar 03, 2008 08:57 AM Permalink
The only way caste system is killing India is through affirmative action alias Mandal Commission- and Constitution-mandated Quotas for the Brain-Dead.
Just partially removing the shackles on business and industry imposed by Bandit Nehru and his spawn has improved the availability of goods in India.
If the Quota System for education and jobs goes and people are selected based on merit, you will see a similar resurgence in science.
No, writing code does NOT constitute intellectual activity.
China occupied parts of Ladakh which is a catchments area. China is claiming more Indian territories as its own. All the occupation of J&K, Pakistan's gift to China our territory and the effort to occupy Siachen glacier, should be seen as an effort to control the Indus water source by Pakistan. Pakistan is held in check in Siachen and we control these breathless heights. The South Asian chapter of the IUCN (World Conservation Union) has proposed that India and Pakistan jointly establish a Siachen Peace Park to protect the snow leopard and other endangered species. Pakistan is trying to control Siachen by its Siachen Park proposal. Siachen glacier and other glaciers in China occupied Tibet are the source of water for our major rivers. India cannot survive as a nation without these glaciers. Nehru took Kashmir issue to UN, tried to erase Bose%u2019s role in our independence struggle, allowed the creation of Pakistan, created anti Indian %u2018Indus water treaty%u2019 without consulting parliament, stole Gandhi surname for his daughter and planted a ruling family that is taken over by the Christian spy Sonia from Italy. International treaties should be approved by the Parliament to save India from traitors like Nehru and Manmohan.
RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by on Mar 05, 2008 11:54 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Surya Kiran,
The explicit details that you have given us look fictitious. I disagree on many points. Anyways, my stand is that India is a developing country and needs energy for growth. Given that there is not much internal technology growth in India, it should seek external help to meet its energy needs. India is 30 years behind US in technology. Why not get the deal done and grow faster and outpace the US in say 15-20 years?? Also let me remind you that you have no idea how costly solar cells are. Moreover, there are not many companies in India making them, so we have to import them. Given the costs involved, we can rule out that option.
Now how in the world will India sustain a GDP growth above 8% if we don;t meet the energy needs? If we had left our country in the hands of left parties then the country would have had the fate same as the former USSR countries........poverty & chaos. I think this government is doing well.
The things that needs improvement are: 1) Increased defence budget. 2) Strict approach to China on boarder issues. Arunachal pradesh and Ladakh are integral parts of India. 3) There should have more Savings schemes. As savings will increase, investments will and we will have a higher growth. (Nobel laureate Solow's growth model). 4) More emphasis on rural upliftment & growth.
With sustainable policies, India has the potential to grow above 10% every year until 2018.
RE:RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by surya kiran on Mar 21, 2008 03:11 AM Permalink
Fast Breeder Reactors are unsafe and unviable.
Kalpakkam Fast Breeding Reactor of 40 MW thermal capacity started in 1972 could achieve thermal yield of 13.4 MWt or one third of rated design around 2000 but has embarked on 1250 MWt or 500 MWe PFBR, a scale up of 31 times of design but 93 times of achieved results. He pointed out the scale up in N reactors is 4 usually. Indian N program is Worst Managed in the world. India consumes 2.4 to 3.5 times more Uranium to produce electricity than developed countries. The contribution of nuke power is very minimal and should be discontinued. Lack of experienced senior engineers were the reason for Cherobyl and Three Mile Island accidents. Good Engineers are not joining DAE for quite some time because of poor Class I salary. Kakkodkar was given three extensions and he is now putting women shift engineers in reactors due to shortage of staff. Women have all the ovum at the time of birth and due to radiation these shift engineer women may deliver genetically damaged children.
Country Elect. BU Uranium T. BU/1000 T. Prod. Factor India 15.6 978 & nbsp;16 1 Slovenia 16.6 ; 313 53 3.31 Germany &n bsp; 158.7 3332 47.6 2.97 Japan 291.5 7569 38.5&nbs p; 2.4 France 428.7 105 27 40.7 2.5 Canada 92.4 1665 55.5 ; 3.47 S Korea 141.2 3109 45. 4 2.84 Russia 144.3 &nb sp;3365 42.9 2.7 USA &n bsp;787.2 18918 41.6 ;2.6 World 2658 64615 & nbsp;41.13 2.57
Fast Breeder Reactors are unsafe and Indian Nuclear powerr Program based on FBR is unviable.
RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by on Mar 24, 2008 10:11 PM Permalink
Hmmm.............the points mentioned by you look interesting.
Given the small %age of GDP deployed to R&D, its difficult to pursue new indigenous nuclear power projects until and unless we develop a substantially new technology.
A higher pay scale incentives to the engineers & technicians in this field is warranted. Bright young graduates should be encouraged by the gov. to join the public sector.
We cannot depend on the costly non-renewable sources of energy. We need to either develop our own technology or get an external help. India is now a power thirsty nation.
RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by R Sharma on May 24, 2008 12:16 AM Permalink
Being a Nuclear engineer, I disagree with Surya Kiran. The thorium rectors are far away in future and until you have them [if it is under Nuclear Power Commission, it may never be built] you need Nuclear Power. In spite of not constructing any Nuclear Power Plant in USA, Westinghouse [Toshiba Owned now] kept on constructing mega-reactors [4000 Mwe each] in Taiwan and Korea. It was constructed in record time of 5 years on a turn-key basis. If our Private Sector gets involved [L & T took up a challenge in 1974 when Canada stopped supplying Calandria] we could get them constructed in 3.5 years. The best brains in Nuclear Power plants are retiring or have retired. Indian Companies can hire these great brains to work for them. Many of them have come to USA [I know because my boss, who is one of the brightest person is now here, as even though he was very keen to work there, but 60 is the magic age in India.
RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by surya kiran on Mar 21, 2008 01:14 AM Permalink
Please read Indus water treaty on the net and compare it with the standard format. Since I had drafted even international nuclear agrement that was signed, you can take it from me that Indus treaty was a treachery on India and so is the nuclear agreement proposed. For last 30years USA has not constructed a single nucelar power reactor and does not have engineers or scientis for helping us. USA has no nuclear fuel as USA is importing it from Russia and other nations. Our technology is based on Heavy water for which USA has no experience. TAPS II AND II given to us by USA was like Chernobyl. Thorium based technology is that india wants to go further. USA has no idea as to what it is.
123 MAIN POINTS
US gains right to unilaterally terminate cooperation at will. No provision for instituting alternate suppliers before terminating cooperation. India concedes to US unfettered %u201Cright of return%u201D. Agreement upholds supremacy of US law. India given reprocessing right only in principle. Actual right uncertain. Fuel-supply assurance subject to US right to terminate. No full cooperation. India accepts IAEA-safeguarded enrichment or reprocessing is %u201Cdual-use%u201D activity. Accord provides for fallback safeguards. Accord provides for end-use US monitoring. Sugar-coated provisions on consultations. Agreement turns unilateral test ban into bilateral legality. Through NSG, US intends to turn test ban into multilateral legality.
RE:RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by surya kiran on Mar 21, 2008 01:28 AM Permalink
Anil Kakodkar contradicted the politicians
Anil Kakodkar, Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission and Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy as per THE HINDU newspaper dated 24.11.2004 stated to the Newspaper that the Indo U.S Strategic Partnership, is of no use to India for developing India%u2019s nuclear power technology? INDIA is the top world expert in the Pressurized Heavy Water Reactor technology and we have 12 PHWR units running. PHWR and FBR are two key types of reactors for India. In the early nuclear days, reactors that used plutonium were promoted for offering a solution to the world's energy problems. Not only do they use plutonium as a fuel, it was said, but they even produce or breed more of it during operation. Over the years, all fast breeder reactor programs have turned out to be costly technical failures, whether in France, US, Japan, UK, or Germany. Germany has abandoned a completed fast breeder power plant due to safety considerations as fast breeders are inherently unsafe. The only fast breeder reactor operating today, with numerous technical problems, is the experimental BN-600 in Byeloyarsk, Russia. USA has none of the type of reactors we are interested or have experience in it.as a working nuclear reactor for power production. So it is very evident that the treaty is a treachery on India and is of much importance to USA.
RE:RE:Indo US nuclear treaty is like perpetual Indus water treaty 3
by surya kiran on Mar 21, 2008 01:30 AM Permalink
Nuclear Energy is not an option for India. US wants to take away around 35 billion worth of business from our firms. Ernest Moniz an MIT prof says electricity from nuclear plant in 2003 is 60% more costly than other forms of power Decommissioning of old radioactive plants are costly. Long lived high level wastes have to be safely stored for a million years, without getting in to the environment. . Germany is installing solar panels at the speed of light and Iceland is exploiting its geothermal and hydropower resources beyond its own needs to keep away from nuke power. Research shows that nuke power not needed to cut CO 2. Human cost of nuclear power could be around 130 crore killed maimed or diseased by nuclear power since it's inception. The industry's figures massively underestimate the real cost of nuclear power, in an attempt to hide its victims from the world. For five decades, humanity has been hoodwinked by the most poisonous confidence trick in history. After the Chernobyl disaster, some of the firemen employed to clean up the site after the explosion took huge doses of radiation during the task, and their story is a terrifying one. About 600,000 men were conscripted as Chernobyl `liquidators' farmers, factory workers, miners, and soldiers as well as professionals like the firemen from all across Russia. This was similar to the conscription of thousands of DAE staff from all over India, to work at US supplied TAPS I and II.. .
Nehru did not bother to extend the line of control between Pakistan and India up to Siachen or negotiated the return of POK in return for the Indus water treaty and instead took the Kashmir issue to UN on the insistence of Britain through his sex partner Edwina Mountbatten. The 47 mile long Siachen glacier is one of the longest outside of the poles. Pakistan sent its troops to occupy it apparently under the advice of the Americans (read as World Bank) who had funded all the projects down stream of Indus river area. In 1954 Pakistan became the member of South East Asian Treaty Organization (SEATO) and so got the support and guidance of the World Bank for the Indus Water Treaty. The involvement of USA is evident by the fact that the bank had provided financial assistance to Pakistan after the Indus treaty. Bank even gave $28 millions to the Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) government for the construction of water supply schemes in rural areas in 1992. World Bank provided $48 million for the development of rural areas in Azad Jammu and Kashmir in 2001. Again the World Bank in July 2002 approved four projects including POK project called AJK Community Infrastructure and Services Project: totaling US$236.5 million. Pakistan occupied J&K region by its aggression in October 1947 and gifted illegally some 2050 square miles of J&K in February 1963 to China which is now called as the China Occupied Kashmir.
Indus treaty with Pakistan is a perpetual one sided treaty favoring Pakis, that does not conform to the standard international treties existed at the time it was signed by Nehru without consulting the parliament. To hide the fact that we are giving somewhere near 86% of water to Pakis, the wording was such that ordinary person will not detect it. Treaty says 3 rivers for Pakis and 3 rivers are for India and the details are hidden in the addendum. Nehru had given away such national resources to an enemy nation, and Nehru can only be called a traitor of India. Now Manmohan is trying to give away our sovernity to USA with a one sided treaty. I had drafted many international treaties and what this criminal Manmohan is doing is what Nehru did with the Indus water treaty. Tibet is the principal watershed of Asia and the source of the Indus River and has its headwaters in western Tibet. Yet Tibet or China is not a party to the Indus treaty. GOI should appoint a commission on the role of Nehru in the Indus treaty and other items of national importance. M.A.Jinnah visited Jammu and Kashmir around 1926, 1936 and in 1944. He explained to Mountbatten on 17 May, 1947 that the K of the name Pakistan stands for Kashmir. The waters of the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab all of which flowed through Jammu and Kashmir territory, were essential for Pakistan and is undoubtedly Jugular vein of Pakistan.
