Is it human beings that create and develop the foetus inside mother's womb.
When we can't create we don't have any right to terminate. Either they should have used Condom or abort as early as possible. Who can say categorically that the child will born unhealthy. Are we stopping cricket matches when the opponent team scores 390 runs in 50 overs. When there is remote chance we even allow a stupid game to continue why not GOD's creation. Atleast GOD is the one who creates his creations with 6 sigma quality level and there are many diseases that disappear magically where doctors express their surprise.
Let the Government take care of the medical expenses for this child (case by case basis). We are all paying too much taxes that just vanishes into politicians pockets than this expense.
If the parents can't see the pain let the Government take the child to ashram or gave the child for adoption. There will be so many in this country who would love to be with the god's most beautiful newest creation to the world. The foetus is simply not a shirt or paper that can be disposed off.
By extending the same logic, when there are so many indians below poverty lines struggling everyday with so much illness...and living feeding garbage....can we go ahead and kill them all citing it relieves them of their pain and our pain in seeing them struggling.
RE:Are we GOD?
by SSSSS on Aug 04, 2008 07:36 PM Permalink
Yes. Do you know some of the decisions taken by developed countries some years ago? They flaoted away ships of handicapped people. Poor and Disabled hamper the growth of a country. Hence giving birth to healthy child is very important. There is no God to tell have child. Its part of natural reproduction, and in nature fittest survive. I suggest Mr. Arun, instead of speaking so long here, you volunteer to take care of that child if it is physically handicapped. Also no parents wish to see their child suffer.
Court is so foolish. It didnt think aborting a child was better for parents, child and the country. This is fate of our country for brining people on reservation rather than talent for judiciary too...
Mr Arun, you read it isnt it? Volunteer and take care if it is handicapped. because people like you are reason for India slipping into under-development everyday. Emotional fools...
RE:Are we GOD?
by SSSSS on Aug 04, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
I dont think giving example for person like you is necessity. But still for others curiosity, check with someone in UK/Germany how they produced strong breed 50-100 years ago.
RE:Are we GOD?
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 07:55 PM Permalink
LOL ... that's different. Producing a strong breed is different from shipping away handicapped to other countries, like you earlier claimed but failed to prove.
RE:Are we GOD?
by Arun Sambandan on Aug 04, 2008 07:53 PM Permalink
Okay...I volunteer and take care of this child to the best of my abilities...if our state and the entire indian population doesn't give a damn for this.
This ownership attitude on child (or other beings/things on earth) comes due to the feeling that it is they who make the kid/anything survive. There are so many trees, grass and insects survive in this world not due to anybody. The person who planted the tree/grass will take care of it (I meant GOD). We are just gardeners at best not the creators.
You should think - this foetus was already a winner among 10 lakh sperm and neven today as it is trying to survive inside womb against so many people who is baying for its blood.
RE:Are we GOD?
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 07:57 PM Permalink
Are we God, you ask. No, *we* didn't give this innocent fetus a debilitating heart condition. God did. Given what god's already done to this poor innocent future-baby (no doubt because it had bad karma or some such thing) why not do what *we* think right for a change instead of groveling in fear like this?
RE:Are we GOD?
by Arun Sambandan on Aug 04, 2008 08:21 PM Permalink
Even now in the remotest corners of the world, there are so many births happening without even having basic medical facilites. How many cases where there are scans done often to check the foetus health. Do you think you or your father/mother or grandfather/mother had been subjected to all these scans and the doctors 'debilitating heart condition' findings. And are we or they are not leading normal lives. There are so many kids in poorest of living conditions among filth and surviving. If we can do anything positive preserve the environment rather than talking about re-boot/re-start of foetus...this is not a computer game.
RE:Are we GOD?
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 08:36 PM Permalink
"And are we or they are not leading normal lives."
You do realize these places where there are no checkups and diagnostic services are precisely the parts of the world where the life expectancy is terrible. You want India to stay like Somalia , say so. But stop arguing that human beings have good health in the state of nature. Naturally, God or karma made it so one in fifteen women died in childbirth.
RE:Are we GOD?
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 07:33 PM Permalink
yes. I partially agree. Let the state pay the medical bills while the child stays in the care of his/her parents
It is both the parents who can only decide if they want to proceed or abort. We went through the same and we know what trauma it brings. But why not stop that for the benefit of the newborn as well as yours..when for sure you know that new born is NOT going to sruvive after few mnths. What happens to the attachment u grwo..while knowing at the same time it is for few mnths only...Will teh COURT come and help then? why not rely on medical science in thsi case when they confirm trisomy/genetic disorder in foetes? but at the same time it is OK to rely on it an go thru chemo when it says u have cancer..? what happens if the baby survives bit with utter mental disorder..will state help? NO So I think COURT has NO RIGHT in this case. Reading it it makes me relive those days of ours...but here in USA luckuly there was no intervention by state. state can only make sure ppl dont misuse it.
Let us pray and hope that the child will be born - normal; and will bring tears of joy to the parents rather than the anticipated sorrow and anguish! May the child have a long healthy and happy life along with the parents!
RE:Niketa and her to be born child
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 06:59 PM Permalink
and what happens if your prayers are not answerred? do remember to send a check to the parents so they can pay the medical bills.
Now that the child will be born and lead as normal a life as possible, can one imagine what trauma it will go through when it learns that its parents tried to abort it??
RE:Bombay HC refuses abortion .....
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 08:40 PM Permalink
I don't think it'll be that big a deal. I know I myself was almost aborted because my family had severe financial constraints at the time - they only didn't because some astrologer told them (incorrectly) they could have only one child. Doesn't mean I think my parents don't care for me now or that they love my sister more. Children do understand that people often face very difficult decisions and that life is hard. These parents will just have to tell their child in the right way, at the right time.
RE:Bombay HC refuses abortion .....
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 06:52 PM Permalink
and what if the child lives a life of misery? I think that the parent are torn in this decison making ... if they prefer abortion, it's because they want to spare the child from a lifetime of sufferings .... and don't forget the medical bills ... only those who pay know how much they hurt.
It is a DOCTOR who can decide better whether a child with such abnormalities should be born or not. Hon'ble judges are not the right person. No one will take future responsibilities (including financial) of that child. If a team of expert doctors is saying to do so.....then why not?
RE:PL
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 06:46 PM Permalink
read this "The court took into account the opinion of a three-member panel of doctors of JJ Hospital .... "
Although I agree that the judge must give more weightage to the recomendation of the woman's doctor than to the experts. The experts have no stake here. Even their license to practise will not be touched if the child is born and lives a life of misery.
NO SUPREME COURT OR PARENTS HAVE RIGHT TO MAKE ON THE JUDGEMENT ON GOD'S GIFT. STOP CRUELTY, THINK POSITIVE, TAKE CORRECT ACTIONS IN LIFE so that u don't need any judgement, U R THE BEST JUDGE OF UR LIFE
RE:STOP , THINK and then DO
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 06:55 PM Permalink
yes, parents should have the right to choose and should be allowed to abort a pregnacy rather than bring a child to world who may forever have to live with heart problem, always dependent on others and lives a hellish life.
RE:STOP , THINK and then DO
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 07:02 PM Permalink
I believe in karma. Karma is above God. I think what Bhagwan Krishna said in Geeta is above whatever the pandits and pujaries in sanatan dharma have been chocking down the throats of Hindus all these years.
RE:STOP , THINK and then DO
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 08:44 PM Permalink
Fine, lets leave it to God. If God doesn't like it he can stop the MTP machine from working. This isn't about what God wants. This is about YOU thinking everyone should do what YOU want. Very easy for you...you don't have to suffer like these parents or this child that'll be very sick.
RE:Termination of pregnancy after 20 weeks
by DIJENDER SAINI on Aug 04, 2008 07:06 PM Permalink
and what if Mehta don't get a pacemaker surgery done after the child is born because they can't afford it. Will they be charged of murder. In India so many die because they can't afford expensive medical treatment. Abortion would have been a much less traumatic...
At this point of time ...I want to bring the Quote of the mother teresa here..
" THE BIGGEST TERROR ACT IN THIS WORLD...IS ....ABORTION...SINCE THE OWN MOTHER KILL HER CHILD...AND THERE IS NOTHING BETWEEN U KILLING ME AND I KILLING U"
SO IT REALLY SHAME TO HAVE THE LADY LIKE THIS....IN THE SOIL WHERE MOTHER TERESA SERVED FOR THIS COUNTRY...
RE:Terror act...
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 06:57 PM Permalink
Mother Teresa served the needy first ... the needy who their own people did not serve. So, vatican or catholisism comes later.
Besides, our constitution affords every citizen the right to practise, preach and profess any religion.
RE:Terror act...
by Milind on Aug 04, 2008 07:05 PM Permalink
See my order: The needy, the Vatican and her own need to be famous.
Regarding our Constitution: Right to practice a religion does not constitute right to convert by coersion! Can you got to Vatican and try to convert Christians to Hinduism or Islam ? There should always be reciprocity!
RE:Terror act...
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 07:22 PM Permalink
No one was converted by coercion ... no one put a gun to someone's head to convert. People convert when either they believe in the new order of religion or they think that the benefits of being a christian far outweigh those of being a Hindu.
We Hindus do not let shudras near the temple ... in some places they can only see the deities from a distance and that too not at sunrise or sunset ... for such Hindus, converting to christianity or any other faith is no brainer.
RE:Terror act...
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 08:06 PM Permalink
1. Opposing inter caste or inter racial marriages are OK ... I have no problem with people marrying within their caste or sub-caste, or people not socializing with people of other caste or race.
2. There are separate churches within whites for different orders of faith ... yet, black churches and white churches do not prohibit an inter racial audience. everyone is welcome. this is again a "socializing" thing. you socialize with those who you feel comfortable with.
Discrimination based on color happened in the US until around the mid 60s and then it was outlawed. It may still happen, but is illegal.
RE:Terror act...
by Milind on Aug 04, 2008 07:55 PM Permalink
Agree with you regarding Hindus treating other Hindus such as Shudras. Caste system should be completely eliminated and be made illegal to use the word 'caste' in public. Feudal System, Racism & Slavery practiced in the West is their form of 'Caste system'. 1. How is 'White parents disapproving marriage of their kid to a Black' different from 'Brahmin parents disapproving marriage of their kid to a Shudra' ? 2. How is 'Seperate church for Whites & Blacks' different from 'Shudras being not allowed in Temples' ?
Dont be so naive regarding the coersion tactics of the evangelicals. Offering a bag of rice and some temporary job offer for converting is called coersion. Believing that my religion is better than other religion in itself is unacceptable to me. If Christmas can be celebrated in Saraswati Mandir High School, shouldnt Ganesh Utsov / Diwali be allowed in Convent Schools. This disparity irritates me. On top of that if I raise my concern, I am reffered to as RSS/VHP. That really aggravates me. Maybe I should be one.
RE:RE:Terror act...
by Loan Shark on Aug 04, 2008 08:13 PM Permalink
you can tell saraswati mandir to stop celebrating christmas but you can't use that argument to force a catholic school to celebrate diwali ... it's their choice afterall. It's like telling a muslim that since my son married a muslim girl, your son should marry a Hindu girl. LOL
Offering a bag of rice is not coercion. The person can refuse rice or employment. When Hindus fail to give you a grain of rice and show apathy for your needs, a bag of rice sends the message that your religion is really good for nothing. Enough incentive for someone to switch. This is not coercion.
Human life is created as soon as an egg is fertilized ... the 20 month old foetus has as much right to live as a 20 year old person, sick or otherwise. Abortion must be banned in the country . This has nothing to do with any religion but pure extension of logic that humans have no right to take away the life of another unless that individual's existence is threat to other human beings ( like someone who has committed murder or is an enemy soldier threatening lives of our citizens)
RE:Abortion is murder
by Bullish on Aug 04, 2008 07:00 PM Permalink
I don't know if to agree or disagree with u but medical science should be given a chance and The govt of India should bear all the expenses as such childs may require complicated surgeries the bill generally runs into crores in super speciality hospitals of mumbai and delhi.
RE:Abortion is murder
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 06:46 PM Permalink
"Human life is created as soon as an egg is fertilized"
How clever. A single cell embryo as as gloriously human as my skin cells and hair cells are. Should I stop shaving in the morning because all cells are sacred?
RE:Abortion is murder
by Secular India on Aug 04, 2008 06:49 PM Permalink
what are you saying ? you have not even understood what was written. Removing dead cells is not the same as killing human beings.
RE:Abortion is murder
by eskinol on Aug 04, 2008 06:54 PM Permalink
No, you're defining embryos as full fledged people, though they're just cells. By *your* logic skin cells are people too. The conclusion is silly, but it's your position that leads to it.
RE:Abortion is murder
by Kunal Rai on Aug 04, 2008 09:22 PM Permalink
By the way, a 20 week ols embryo is just not one cell. Its got all structures like you have in your body. Remember they identified "heart" problem at this stage.
