You made a rather sarcastic remark- and this is what you said >>>By the way who is this Razi ??? a Lavoiser or a Rutherford ?? why his discoveries have not been mentioned in science books>>
There is a difference between science of scholors and popular science.I dont want to get into the detals of that.As far as telling you who Razi is here is the refernence
because Razis fundamental contribution,the Princeton University put up his image on the glass window of the Chapel to commemorate the contributions of Al-Razi to the science of medicine for the whole world
Search for the word Razi web.princeton.edu/sites/chapel/hisandarch.html
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 04:03 AM Permalink
who is a greater authority in chemistry than the chemical heritage foundation.It says
..Muhammad ibn Zakariya Al-Razi was born around 864 in the city of Rayy (in present-day Iran). A versatile mind, he was well learned in mathematics, astronomy, astrology, music, and medicine. In this last field Latin translations of his works%u2014 together with Avicennas Canon%u2014became the basis of the cursus studiorum for European students of medicine...
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 11:01 PM Permalink
RE:Iran a big zero by Nostra Damus on Apr 30, 2008 04:10 PM The Arabs were doing fine as long as they followed Islam with intelligence and compassion. That is why they were able to invent so many navigation instruments, conquer half of Europe, yet did not molest christians or jews. The day they started becoming fanatics, they lost their compassion, their learning and the ability to govern instead of killing
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 04:07 AM Permalink
For details on Razi and when he stand along Lavoiser you can find this from the Journal of the American Chemical Society
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
Your thousand words cannot justify the actions we are witnessing. 167 Jews won Nobel prizes while only 6 Muslims did the same. Ancient time have passed we are in modern world. Stop blaming the West for all your problems. Is the West blaming you for theirs?
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 03:54 AM Permalink
This is from Michael A. Flannery, Associate Director for Historical Collections of University of Alabama at Birmingham
.. Indeed, pharmacy can trace much of its historical foundations to the singular achievements of this ninth-century Persian scholar (Abu Bakr Mohammad Ibn Zakariya al-Razi)
uab.edu/reynolds/rhazes_pharm.htm
Such a towering figure who is credited for the very foundation of pharmacy doesnt have a single reference in our school text books.All the modern chemical processes such as crystallation,distilliataion etc are due to him.
what do you want to call his ommission a bias or a a mistake?
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by Surya Kanishka on Apr 30, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
Cmon man, crystallation and distillation have existed before 6th century. Whom you are fooling around ??? if distillation didnt exist how they use make alcohol, salt for crystallation.
You seem to be a narrow minded and religious cocktail injected to the bone bigot. You are frog in the well and jaundice infected person. Getout of this web of religion see the other man as a human being but not to which religion he belongs.
If every religionist like you becomes a bigot we are going to kill each other to the end. Hypocrites like you have sowed the seeds of hardened religious feeling in others to foment and cus trouble.
You will not achieve nor anyone only the civilisation on whole gets affected. Lastly, you come with no religion stamped on your back until your parents pour it in your heart, mind and soul. If your parents would have told you you are hindu you would become a hindu, a christian a cristian and a muslim a muslim. Stop your blabber of supremacy, let some sense prevail in your mind.
RE:@Surya Kanishka
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 03:59 AM Permalink
By the way Razi is a iranian whom you guys are busy abusing here.You are ready to embrace laovoiser as the father of modern chemistry.He did contribute ,but do you know Jabir Ibn hayam?
The American Chemical Society Journal published an article about Jabir Ibn Hayyan (Geber) .It was written by Joan Selverstone, who is the editor of American Chemical Society and an award-winning professor of chemistry and biochemistry at University of California, Los Angeles
...This extraordinary scientist, who lived in the late 8th or early 9th century, not only made many fundamental discoveries in inorganic chemistry but very likely was also the originator of the methods of modern chemical research....
balaord Maybe, we got to rest religion in peace. This is where some nations keeps religion and governance separate. Though the election of Bush had lot to do with south biblical belt and it hurt USA.
Separation of religion and state, this is how we can forge a better Asia. Do you know, the Arabs/Afros prefer Ghora sahabs for high pay and manager jobs. The Ghora recruiters then send Southies to serve Ghora managers, kyoo kheey they know very well how to kiss up to ghoora sahab jhinhooneey unhein angrezi kaaha ghulaam bhaanaya. Now they accept no other as the sahab.
balaord Maybe, we got to rest religion in peace. This is some nations keeps religion and governance separate. Though the election of Bush had lot to do with south biblical belt and it hurt USA. This is how we can forge a better Asia, Do you know, the Arabs/Afros prefer Ghora sahabs for high pay. The Ghora recruiters send Madrasi to serve Ghora managers kyoo kheey know it very well world they kiss up to ghoora's quite very well.
RE:RE:balaord , you have a point, just leave history/religion and that is how things will work out
by Anita on Apr 30, 2008 03:16 AM Permalink
Please dont limit yourself by saying, I belong to this particular place, I am from that culture or I belong to this religion. It is like children saying, My dad is better than your dad, or My toy is better than your toy. I think most people around the world are stuck in that mental age group, just the toys have changed. Adults say, My country is better than your country or my religion is better than your religion.
A Christian will say, The Bible is truth, and a Hindu will say, The Vedas are the truth. They are very ancient. Muslims will say, The Koran is the last word of God. We attribute glory to something just because we are from that culture, not for what it is.
If one could take credit for all that exists throughout the ages and feel as though It belongs to me, then, that is maturity. This is my wealth because I belong to the divine.
The Divine, according to time and space, gave different knowledge in different places. One becomes the knower of the whole universe and can say all the beautiful flowers are from my garden.
The whole evolution of man is from being somebody to being nobody, and from being nobody to being everybody.
Have you observed that young children have that sense of belonging that oneness, that innocence? As we grew up we lost that innocence and became more cunning. The innocence of an ignorant man has no value, and the cunningness of an intelligent man also has no value.
Good Human is a rare combination of innocence and intelligence.
RE:balaord , you have a point, just leave history/religion and that is how things will work out
by Animesh Naskar on Apr 30, 2008 03:21 AM Permalink
Good message. From where u quoted?
RE:balaord , you have a point, just leave history/religion and that is how things will work out
by smita pazhayattil on Apr 30, 2008 06:59 AM Permalink
I have been following this debate and I see that members in the debate have matured and reached a stage where every body is ready to leave the enimty the accusations behind and see the future. I think there is hope for world still. guys I think it is time to stop fighting for spot on top about religion,nationality and super power and think together about saving the natural envt around us for a change start thinking outside the circle.
RE:RE:SHAME ON Rediff..
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 03:02 AM Permalink
I mean , Even when no one has marked them for abuse. there is something fishy going on.
Were the internal bickerings of the UPA less comical that you also brought Ahmedinejad in to make it a non-stop comedy? Ohhh my India...you never fail to amuse thy well-wishers!
RE:Was The UPA Less Comical...?
by kancj on Apr 30, 2008 03:02 AM Permalink
what is wrong with bringing him......india shld independant foriegn policy.......ofcourse this iranian president unfortunately is specimen but doesn't mean we break withiran
RE:Was The UPA Less Comical...?
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 03:19 AM Permalink
This subject is not about being independent in foreign policy matters. This is about how you go doing it. The UPA has proved highly inept on the Chinese and N-deal fronts due to the pressure exerted by the left partners. Now they are making a joke of themselves by allowing Ahmedinejad to speak crap from Delhi. The Iranian prez is a known bigmouth, and they should have dealt with him more carefully. Although, this news doesn't make any headline elsewhere, so one should have doubts about Rediff's motives as well.
The work has begun. Within the next decade or so, we will see new nations formed by ethnic groups in today's Iran. Do you know that only 50% of Iran is Persian? And the other 50% are beginning to assert themselves and questioning why their languages are not allowed in schools.
Having said that, I think this guy is doing a tremendous job of telling the world that the USD is an emperor with no clothes.
RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:47 AM Permalink
I am not a propgandist Man. This is the antidote for the popular bias that crept into the psyhci of people about Muslims. Dont you think some one should have the right to reply when his religion is called anti-science?after all I am just refering to authroities in the field (just read my references)and not making unsubstantied arguments to support my case
RE:RE:@BALAORD
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 02:51 AM Permalink
bala man u make up ..and u give half truths...u claim Arabic translations of Greeks and Indians as Islamic work..wat is islamic shcolarship anyways..if some happens to be Muslim its islamic?/ its like claiming Pele to Newton as glory of Christianity..such narrowmided Islamic bigotry is destroying ur society.
RE:RE:RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:59 AM Permalink
There is another aspect to the growth of science-that came directly from Muslim religious needs.
This is from Institue of history and science museum -Italy
..In the Islamic world, the study of astronomy was closely linked to religious practices. The faithful had to determine the times of the five prayers prescribed by the Koran. They also had to find the direction of Mecca in whatever region of Islam they happened to be. These calculations could not be performed accurately without applying spherical trigonometry and studying the Ptolemaic celestial model..
RE:RE:RE:RE:@BALAORD
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 08:14 AM Permalink
There are enough Balaord in Arab world that justifies the folly of the governments in those places that covers every part of their lives. That's why the region is a stinking place in terms of knowledge. God bless them if Oil is not there, what will they do? God is gracious to them! Perhaps they will thank Allah for the same reason. There are many sick people like Balaord there - the level of the intellectuals in those countries. A very sorry state indeed.
RE:RE:RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:57 AM Permalink
ofcourse not.Even some of the great scientists like RAZI (who is credited for for so many chemical breajthroughs ) is actually a heretic.and there are many example of people lived in Muslim civilizatiosn were non-muslims. But this doesnt take away the fact that islam gave intense incentive to the pursuit of science because the fundamental quranic principle is you can belive in the unity of god only by understanding the nature and its creations.
RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:41 AM Permalink
The contributiosn have every connection to the world we live in.You are probably mistaken of my intention of refering to these articles.I dont claim exclusivity.I know for a fact that our own India contributed heavily in mathematics-especially the survya siddhanta. Aryabhatta is the first one to show sine is a function of angle,and the Muslim abul wafa is the first one to to tabluate the values for tangent. But today the west is show casing it in the popular science as if it invented all these things.The truth is India as well as Muslims have made a great contribution to humanity. I am for alliance of civilizations not for the clash.It is the idea of people who thrive in hate
RE:RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 03:04 AM Permalink
You are partially right.Infact some of the great scientists like RAZI who is credited for for so many chemical breakthrough in Islamic civilization is actually a heretic.and there are many example of people lived in Muslim civilizatiosn were non-muslims. But this doesnt take away the fact that islam gave intense incentive to the pursuit of science because the fundamental quranic principle is you can belive in the unity of god only by understanding the nature and its creations.
RE:RE:RE:@BALAORD
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 08:10 AM Permalink
So, how many? Razi was yes. But how many. Muslims are worried only about Islam and have no time for modern science. When the religion became the only force, no more scientific discovery nor modern day development takes place in Arab world. Its a pity. Its not the people, it is the form of the governments that are SICK in Arab world.
RE:@BALAORD
by Surya Kanishka on Apr 30, 2008 03:33 AM Permalink
By the way who is this Razi ??? a Lavoiser or a Rutherford ?? why his discoveries have not been mentioned in science books ?? you will claim bias ?? who is Ibm batuta and why is mentioned in the books ?? bias disn't work here ???
RE:@BALAORD
by deepak on Apr 30, 2008 02:47 AM Permalink
Ya he doesnt use bad words...like Daniel Pipes indentified 3 types of Islamists who work hand in glove for the Islamofascist cause...the suicide types, and then you have the middle of the road types who are apologists for the suicide types by obfuscating and putting up a religion of peace front..the other type just go along...the second type is Bala..most dangerous - the one you cant fight but wants to create friction n ur society. Everything is from Islam is their point of view...they will claim even a good sportsman for the glory of Islam..just like our Balaord claiming all scholarly work as Islamic..wehreas we know that Muslims societies r the dumbest ever.
RE:RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:53 AM Permalink
If you have read my references - you will actually see that it doesnt simply claim Muslims alone did it,It will always point out that islam was the vital bridge of all civilizations. How can I argue only certain people can do certain things when I belive that GOD created every one equal? What the world owes to Islam is the bridge between east (india) and west(greek) and for eliminating the philisophical boundries that obstrcuted the pursuit of science (for example treating celestial bodies as gods and not subjecting them to critical scrutiny) I will not claim any group or ethinicity as dumpbest or the brightest.I have great minds who are hindus,jews (I temporrarily live in US) and christians.
RE:RE:@BALAORD
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 03:01 AM Permalink
NO you are wrong many intellecutal theft happened and here is the proof from europes highest mathemcatical body- School of Mathematics and Statistics University of St Andrews Scotland
It says
...Recent research paints a new picture of the debt that we owe to Arabic/Islamic mathematics.Certainly many of the ideas which were previously thought to have been brilliant new conceptions due to European mathematicians of the sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth centuries are now known to have been developed by Arabic/Islamic mathematicians around four centuries earlier. In many respects mathematics studied today is far closer in style to that of the Arabic/Islamic contribution than to that of the Greeks.....
RE:@BALAORD
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 03:42 AM Permalink
balaord , I'll make it simpler for you. Take Dubai for example, and let me know how tall buildings could they make from the ancient knowledge you spoke about, had it no been the Western corporates conducting their business in that emirate?
RE:@BALAORD
by Pankaj Mohan on Apr 30, 2008 03:36 AM Permalink
balaord, give me a simple answer. Why did the West gain from the so-called Arab knowledge that you have quoted in so much detail, and not the Arab world itself?
RE:REMEMBER THE PAST .. 200 Years back.
by Anita on Apr 30, 2008 02:38 AM Permalink
Please dont limit yourself by saying, I belong to this particular place, I am from that culture or I belong to this religion. It is like children saying, My dad is better than your dad, or My toy is better than your toy. I think most people around the world are stuck in that mental age group, just the toys have changed. Adults say, My country is better than your country or my religion is better than your religion.
A Christian will say, The Bible is truth, and a Hindu will say, The Vedas are the truth. They are very ancient. Muslims will say, The Koran is the last word of God. We attribute glory to something just because we are from that culture, not for what it is.
If one could take credit for all that exists throughout the ages and feel as though It belongs to me, then, that is maturity. This is my wealth because I belong to the divine.
The Divine, according to time and space, gave different knowledge in different places. One becomes the knower of the whole universe and can say all the beautiful flowers are from my garden.
The whole evolution of man is from being somebody to being nobody, and from being nobody to being everybody.
Have you observed that young children have that sense of belonging that oneness, that innocence? As we grew up we lost that innocence and became more cunning. The innocence of an ignorant man has no value, and the cunningness of an intelligent man also has no value.
Good Human is a rare combination of innocence and intelligence.
RE:REMEMBER THE PAST .. 200 Years back.
by rajesh chauhan on Apr 30, 2008 02:37 AM Permalink
Koi Mulla vapas hindu nahin banega, saare hindu aur tu bhi medal ke bheek maangte huey jaayenge.
RE:RE:REMEMBER THE PAST .. 200 Years back.
by JaiHanumaan on Apr 30, 2008 02:49 AM Permalink
Kyon be chauhan, jaichand ki beti Sanyogita utha ke yon legaya, tharxxkee. Tere ghar pe maa behan nahi hai kya, musalmaan se kam kameexxna nahi tu bhi.
Teri sulxag kyon gayi, zara khul ke bol. Mari hui awaaz mei kya keh raha hai pataa nahi.
you proved again that you are a bhow bhow with no canines ?? go to USA man compare what is Iran with it. By the way US is not Bush nor you are Iran you are just politicians. Lastly, can you stop your people flocking to the land of homey and bread ? just see the line in dubai's USA Consulate 95% the applicants are Iranis, why so ???
RE:What is new ??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:44 AM Permalink
These are reply to people who brush Muslims as enemies of west.before critizing me,did you see who first provoked it here??
RE:What is new ??
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 11:05 PM Permalink
There are enough Balaord in Arab world that justifies the folly of the governments in those places that covers every part of their lives. That's why the region is a stinking place in terms of knowledge. God bless them if Oil is not there, what will they do? God is gracious to them! Perhaps they will thank Allah for the same reason. There are many sick people like Balaord there - the level of the intellectuals in those countries. A very sorry state indeed.
RE:What is new ??
by Surya Kanishka on Apr 30, 2008 02:48 AM Permalink
why cant people criticize him ?? he lacks basic sense ?? this man is half mad and much more dangerous.
RE:RE:What is new ??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:28 AM Permalink
What Muslsim did from washinton post article
...shows how these great forgotten empirical thinkers of Islam helped lay the foundation for the rise of Europe and the West, and today-s global digital civilization. Whether good or bad, virtually all of today%u2019s science, technology, medicine and all the material benefits that accrue from it has its roots in the empirical method...
RE:RE:What is new ??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:29 AM Permalink
The UK's channel4 -The leading televsion channel of UK says in its article how islam kept Europe out of dark ages
...Until recently, the era has been glossed over by historians who happily leapt from the fall of the Roman Empire straight to the Renaissance. But it is time for the West to recognize its debt to those Islamic scientists of the past, who forged ahead while Europe stagnated...
RE:What is new ??
by balaord on Apr 30, 2008 02:26 AM Permalink
The so called great westv was actually resuced by Muslims during dark ages.Read this washington post artcile on this
RE:RE:What is new ??
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 11:06 PM Permalink
by Bei on Apr 30, 2008 08:14 AM There are enough Balaord in Arab world that justifies the folly of the governments in those places that covers every part of their lives. That's why the region is a stinking place in terms of knowledge. God bless them if Oil is not there, what will they do? God is gracious to them! Perhaps they will thank Allah for the same reason. There are many sick people like Balaord there - the level of the intellectuals in those countries. A very sorry state indeed.
RE:What is new ??
by rajesh chauhan on Apr 30, 2008 02:39 AM Permalink
Very well said, saari malaayee khaani bhi hai aur doosron ko gaali bakni bhi hai.
