following point to be noted - 1- Good point to exclude creamy layer .. 2- Good point to not have in master degree ( you came though reservation till bachelore ) you had access to same resource now u get seat on basic of skill rather than mercy in master .
Improvemnet needed -
Revise Creamy layer and make anual income less than 1.5 L/a so poor OBC who realy need can get. in a country were 50% of population can't get 50Rs daily ..can not define 2.5 L./a as creay layer ...it shd be 1.5
Those pro reservationists who seek advancement in their careers on the strength of their caste certificates are perpetuating their "backwardness" by eschewing the option of effort and excellence. These losers need to be ignored.Effort and merit will always float to the top,the real creamy layer!!!
RE:obc reservations
by Arjun bharatiya on Apr 12, 2008 10:05 PM Permalink
Dear ms/mr sobti, merit and effort is not the prerogative of any caste. The point we are trying to make is that people from the present backward classes when given their due opportunity will be atleast as good as anyone else if not better. Beware these people are going to sweep you off your feet. Better pull your socks up now the competition is going to be tough for priviledged people like you as everyone will increasingly have an equal chance of making it big.
I think reservation & competetion are two different concepts. I think you are asking for resrvation because you can't compete in first place. If reservation could have improved lot of people than it would have happened during last 60 years. And its not as if people from lower castes have not reached to the top without reservation. Deserving people succceed in life any how. Reservation is not a solution to the problem of backwardness in India.
THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY IN INDIA. PEOPLE SAY INDIA WILL GO TO DOGS. INDIA IS ALREADY WITH DOGS. ONLY FOOLS CAN GIVE SUCH DECISAIONS. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM IF RESERVATIONS WILL BRING ANY PROGRESS? IF NOT, WILL THEY GUARANTEE, NO MORE RESERVATIONS IN INDIA FOR NEXT 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 YRS? IF RESERVATIONS WILL LEAD TO PROGRESS OF SC,ST,BC ETC., HAVE THEY ACHIEVED SO CALLED PROGRESS? IF YES, WHY ANY RESERVATIONS FOR SUCH SC,ST,BC, WHO HAVE ENJOYED RESERVATIONS & PROGRESSED? IF THEY HAVE NOT PROGRESSED, THEN WHY EVEN 1% RESERVATIONS? FURTHER, WHEN SC,ST,BC CAN GET INTO IAS,IPS,IRS ETC., THRU RESERVATIONS, WHY DO THEY NEED RESERVATIONS IN ENGINEERING, MEDICINE & IIMs? WHY SHOULD THERE BE RESERVATIONS TO GET INTO IAS ETC? WHEN AMBEDKAR HIMSELF ASKED FOR RESERVATIONS FOR 10 YRS, IF GOVT/SUPREME COURT IS EXTENDING RESERVATIONS BEYOND 10 YRS, IT IS DIRECT INSULT TO AMBEDKAR HIMSELF. HOW CAN SC,ST TOLERATE IT? SC,ST GO ON STRIKES, PROTEST ONLY WHEN IT FAVOURS THEM? WHAT ABOUT THIS INSULT? WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF REVIEWING AFTER 5 YRS? POLICY MAKING FOOLS MUST REALISE THAT 5 GENERATIONS OF STUDENTS, IN LAKS, WILL BE RUINED FOR EVER. AS MENTIONED, THE BEST THING FOR TALENTED FC PEOPLE, WILL BE TO GO TO US,UK & LIVE HAPPILY AS 3RD CLASS CITIZENS BECAUSE THEY ARE 4TH CLASS CITIZENS IN INDIA. SHAME ON POLITICIANS & POLICY MAKERS. IF REQUIRED THEY WILL EVEN MORTGUAGE THEIR WIVES, DAUGHTERS & SISTERS, TO STAY IN POWER. DID THEY HAVE RESERVATIONS IN US? THATS WHY THEY ARE ON TOP OF THE WORLD
When there is so much of turmoil and uproar in the entire country over the issue,why at all court should delay release copy of the judgment instead of giving room for all imaginations, wishful & whimsical interpretations of one's own according to their convenience and expedience.Is the honorable court not aware of the repercussions and the chaos likely to create on account of such storming verdict?The concept of creamy layer is confusing and may not hold good unless the income limits are revised in tune with the inflationary trends reducing the real value of money day by day.I think,since the judgment appears to be very exhaustive,it must have addressed all the possible doubts relating to working details of the income,order of reservations in the OBCs,stage of education at which they apply and certain other things which prima facie, may look insignificant but assume vital importance when left to the interpretation of the legal luminaries.It is,therefore,wise for all those- for and against reservations, to wait patiently for the judgment copy and chalk out their action plans in tune with the law of the land instead of instigating people with their interpretations made out of half-knowledge on the basis of information of the media which,of late,except news papers like Hindu,are mainly views makers-not news makers interested more in creating sensation for their own benefit.The hay day for the country's country's constitutional experts & legal luminaries are still ahead.
RE:Why court should delay release of the judgment copy?
by abhi on Apr 12, 2008 10:00 PM Permalink
why we need to reviees creamy layer ..do u mean to say people have income more than 2.5 L/a are poor...? what is this nonsense in a country where 60% of people cant earn more than 50 rs in day ....if u realy want progess lets get poor people get reservation . review creamy layer ..2.5 shd be bring down to 1 lac
RE:Why court should delay release of the judgment copy?
by mallaiah anchoori on Apr 13, 2008 06:07 AM Permalink
The creamy layer norm was fixed some time back in a different context as agreed by the minister for human resources himself and hence needs a revision,I meant.Any norm becomes stale with efflux of time warranting revision in tune with the changing situations and emerging needs please.
It is my personal experience that OBCs opress Dalits more than upper castes. Since my childhood I had several minor clashes with OBCs. They ask my caste, but when I say I am a Dalit, they used to talk despicably. They used to make comments on my caste. They used to talk about my caste with others on my back. Play loose jokes about my caste. I am not saying all OBCs are bad. But comparatively OBCs used to be ill-mannered, rude more often misbehave. Sometimes, I even had physical fights with them.
On the other hand I found upper caste people to be well-mannered, cultured, more imaginative, mentally resourceful, and more understanding. I even today feel more comfortable and home while I am in the company of upper caste people. On the other hand, if I develop close friendship with OBCs [or even other Dalits] it is bound to lead to a clash or unpleasantness. I cannot even communicate wholeheartedly with OBCs and other Dalits.
Since my childhood, even though I am a Dalit, I could not get along with low caste people--OBCs and even other Dalits. I usually maintain a formal--not too close--relationship with them. I don't look down anybody.
I AM UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT HAPPENS THAT WAY? CAN YOU TELL WHY IT HAPPENS THAT WAY?
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 09:49 PM Permalink
good story but doesnt have any effect. every body knows the major OBC in india muslims dont have any cast based backward or forward. even in mosque most of the time only those who are so called lower cast get the honor to lead the prayer. this will never happen in temple.. OBCs are the true freinds of dalits. they must unite and win their rights against so called upper cast and forward block of india.
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 10:10 PM Permalink
islam gives peace and life to human kind. keeps human on the right path and makes the society based on human equality and social justice. till now it is okay but the problem starts when islam asks to fight against the tyranny injustice and cruelty of people and these butchers who have been ruling and exploiting others for long are not able to do the same to msulims so suddenly muslims became terrorist and deth culth. islam provided peace to the world when whole wordl was crying with pain. islam terminated the war culture and made society based on equal rights for every one. a crime free society. every body please read the islamic history. just search for "historical role of islam" in google and you will the ebook which will give you full reference. may Allah guide us all.
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Sicilian on Apr 12, 2008 09:52 PM Permalink
Hey No one wants to be a Mullah or Pandit , what foolishness are you talking of? You can fool the Hindus on all this talks but not dalits ..You be the pope of islam and live happily, even the poorest uneducated dalit will laugh on you, for over the centuries they know what religion stands for..
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 10:05 PM Permalink
you are mistaking. you have no idea. every body wants to be a mullah in islam. mullah doesnt mean that he will simply sit in the mosque and read qauran and wil not do any other activity. actually this is the concept of being speritual in hinduism which is reflectin in you. i am a mu llah and i am an engineer too. a Ph.D. perhapsyou will not believe this. every muslim must be a mullah and must have some knowledge of islam. so that worldy life will not be able to misguide us. yes. there are some very pious people who have sacrificed their life for islam and they know much more than us and we consult them for every issues. they guide us based on Quran and Hadith. every muslim must be a mullah first of all. second, i dont want to fool any one. do you have any ideas why most of the dalits convert to islam. they know very well that they will get true rights here. no body will feel disgusting if they stand beside any other cast in the mosque, while poort fellow aer stil not allowed to drink water from some brahmins well and not allowed to enter in the temple. so the difference is very much clear and they too know this and two third of the total reverts in islam are the dalits and oppressed only.
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Sicilian on Apr 12, 2008 10:14 PM Permalink
Someday Dalits will Slaughter all you muslims, we are just waiting for the chance to get hold of India, then Pakis will get roasted with porks in our dishes :)
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Sicilian on Apr 12, 2008 10:09 PM Permalink
No Smart Dalit convert to any other religion, all this spirituality, God, Philosopy, Communism as age old tools of suppressions, thats why educated dalits only admire Buddhism .
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by anil s pillai on Apr 12, 2008 10:03 PM Permalink
Hello GOlden,stop your anti-Hindu,anti-nation stand
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 10:19 PM Permalink
i have no anti hindu no anti nation stand. i only fight for right and support the truth. by the way, have you ever said the same to these abusers who have learned nothing but to abuse and show their culture and family values every where? no matter which news comes,they will start abusing islam. and more they abuse and talk, more islam will spread. theri talk and use of disgusting language forces others to look into islam if there is something really so disgusting and this leads them to the truth and most of them accept islam. even in this small age of mine i have seen plenty of people reading pondering and embracing islam. truth finds its way. no body can stop it.
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 10:16 PM Permalink
so you are dreaming and trying to find the same in islam what you have in your culture... Malcom X made organiztion called Nation of Islam to take revenge from US whites and thought if whites hate black, black too must hate whites. and that is the equality and that is islam. poor fellow was very much misguided then he went for haj. and there he got the real islam. he writes: I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE A BROWN MUSLIM AND BLACK MUSLIM SITTING TOGETHER AND EATING WITH WHITE MUSLIMS. ACTUALLY THIS IS THE EQUALITY THE REAL EQUALITY OF HUMANITY AND WE MUST ENFORCE THIS IN OUR EVERY SOCIETY AND EVEYR SOCIAL SYSTEM. islam teaches the realy equality and humanity. any way your false allegatoni is very much clear to every body so i should not tell much. but i shall say one thing that even during the time of prophet (SAWS) a black was given the honor of calling azan and he was not abe to believe but that is islam. honor comes because of piety, truthfulness and God fearing character not just becauer you have take birth in a brahmis home or in a kshatriya home and this is the fact which attracts every body to ebmrace islam. truth prevails no matter what.
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 10:20 PM Permalink
i just dont know if your message is for me or what. if you are talking to me then i must say, you have taken me wrongly..
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Sicilian on Apr 12, 2008 09:47 PM Permalink
Everyone knows this, only Educated Dalits like B R Ambedkar, KG Balakrishna , KR Naraynan and some Brahmins are fair minded , all others just think of their caste and not of the country. Educated Dalits are the best leaders of our countries.
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Om Kapur on Apr 12, 2008 09:59 PM Permalink
but these dalits never got advantage of being dalits. They rose to those heights by dint of their own labour. Why not others learn from them?
RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Sicilian on Apr 12, 2008 10:03 PM Permalink
Because , the whole question is , why should dalits struggle (unfairly) to make it to the top ? And if we have to struggle, why not we have our separate homeland and struggle? After all there was no place in the history for them.. there are no bitter socially historical enemies on this planet (after jews and nazi) as that of dalit and all other castes..
RE:RE:OBCs OPRESS DALITS MORE THAN UPPER CASTES !!!
by Golden on Apr 12, 2008 09:51 PM Permalink
do you think that in so called brahmnins and others, all are educated ones. there are a few only who are educated. rest are just fooling the hindus and earning their bread by doing nothing. also they dont want dalits to get educated adn come forward that's why this quota is required.
The issue of reservation is a political issue and cannot be decided by courts forever. If anti-reservation activists are serious about countering the quota system, they should create a political party or make the issue so salient in the minds of upper caste voters that at least some of the existing political parties are forced to change their stance on the issue.
