It is not easy to judge the past. The cruel acts of British were nothing as compared to what the Muslim rilers did or what the upper caste Hindus did to the lower castes for milleniums.
The Brits should be lauded for modernizing and "creating" India. Hindu empires had ceased to exist a millenium ago. The scourge of Sati, thagi, jamindari and opression of the lower castes ravaged the land.
The contribution of Brits outshine their bad deeds: 1) Translated Sanskrit texts into English so that ordinary folks could finally find out what their religion actually said. 2) Wrote our history. 3) Abolished a plethoral of social evils. 4) Brought in the modern governance, education and technology (postal system, railways, modern cities and roadways) 5) Their mistreatment of Indians eventually led to the creation of national consciousness and ultimately led to the creation of a nation after 2000 years.
What is indeed a pity is that we have been unable to build significantly upon the systems that Brits brought since independence: governance, laws and planned infrastructure. No wonder many elderly people reminisce the British India so fondly.
RE:Britishers modernized India
by on Aug 07, 2007 11:32 PM Permalink
Well done Anurag..!! Few more people like you and India will rise n shine under gora raaj again!!! I don%u2019t deny the fact that the Brits got the postal system and railways..!! But the question is... did they do it for the betterment of the people i.e Indians or for their own purposes? The first railway line was built in roorkee to transport construction material for %u201CGovernment Offices". First passenger line was built in 1853 from bori bunder, mumbai to thane. Well this line was majorly used to move convicts to thane jail. Now, the postal system. It was "only" for Government purposes initially. Even during the independence struggle our soldiers did not use the postal system to pass messages only because it was the Government body and it was not safe. I think you forgot to praise the Brits for their excellent Prisons and soft punishments like Kala Paani. Have you ever been to Andaman? Do you know what our freedom fighters had to go through? Their life was far worse than any ill treatment you can think of. Coming to Britishers writing our History. And what do you think they did? Presented India as a land of snake charmers. Looking at the Political History, they always mentioned that Indians are a divided society, was there any good thing said about the society? No. Only the evils were highlighted, and how the Britishers helped the society to wipe out these evil practices. But Anurag let me remind you. It was this British Government that ruled us using the Divide and
RE:Britishers modernized India
by on Aug 07, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
It was this British Government that ruled us using the Divide and Rule policy. I don%u2019t blame them for that it was our weakness that they took advantage of, merely for their own profits. People who actually worked for betterment of the society were not Government Officers. No British Officer was supposed to work on Humanitarian grounds. The work was only for Official and Profitable purposes. And did you forget our own Surdas, Kabir, Ramdas and Raja ram Mohan Roy, Swami Vivekananda, and Gandhi from the recent times. Translated Sanskrit into English for ordinary folks..!! Ordinary folks like you and me who need English to learn about our own culture?? I know it%u2019s easy for us to understand English. And Sanskrit is way off our understanding. But why do you need English? We have all our scriptures translated in many Indian languages. If you are really so keen to understand and study our culture, don%u2019t you think a Sanskrit script or a native language would be the best source? Britishers did translate our works. Good that they wanted to learn about us, but dear that was for their understanding. Appreciate what you have, your mother tongue!! Their mistreatment led to national consciousness and creation of a nation. But at what cost? One nation Bharat was divided. And we are paying for it till date. I agree that no one can rule you unless you let them rule. And unfortunately we have people like you who still think the British raj came as a boon for the country. Don%u2019t let someone ru
RE:Britishers modernized India
by amit jaiswal on May 14, 2007 03:20 PM Permalink
gr8 buddy..your English is great, which is not your mother tongue. Thats itself a gr8 achievement..c english ppl(brits)...they were here for so long time..but despite of being so intelligent they couldnot learn to pronounce Hindi or Sanskrit correctly.
RE:Britishers modernized India
by Anurag Gupta on May 14, 2007 10:09 PM Permalink
Most Indians are unable to speak in the native accents of the west. Does it mean they are not intelligent?
RE:Britishers modernized India
by on Aug 07, 2007 11:37 PM Permalink
Their mistreatment led to national consciousness and creation of a nation. But at what cost? One nation Bharat was divided. And we are paying for it till date. I agree that no one can rule you unless you let them rule. And unfortunately we have people like you who still think the British raj came as a boon for the country. Don%u2019t let someone rule us again for another 400 years. Open your eyes take what is good from others but at the same time don%u2019t forget the price you paid for it.
- Asmita Deodhar.
(could not add it all in one reply had to split into 3 parts)
In 1857, what was the moral standard of British? Basically, intruder, dulpicity minded, set to loot the wealth og India.Why wont they be savage? THE PITY IS AFTER INDEPENDENCE NEHRU BOLDLY SAID' "I am accidentally born in Indis, I am educated in England...and so on" Are we not still in the clutches of British mentality by the Constitution and by shunning our RICH WISDOM because its all in Sanskrit" Who are to be blamed now? Its okay at that time they were ruling asnd so they savagely treated BUT NOW? Are Indians obligated to British? People should read details and put pressure on POLITICIANS to reinstate INDIAN WISDOM ONCE AGAIN!
As I look at the photograph with the caption: "Image: The Secundra Bagh after the slaughter of 2,000 rebels by the 93rd Highlanders and the 4th Punjab Regiment", I wonder why did the Sikh fanatically support the British? Is anyone aware of any literature giving a reason for this? Was it all about greed and lack of ethics?
RE:Why did the Sikhs support the British
by chandrashekhar subhash kulkarni on May 30, 2007 02:14 PM Permalink
Sikhs were against mughals who had killed Guru Tegbahadur and many hindus and sikhs.Naturally they didnt support 1857 movement as bahadurshah jafar was declared as the leader by the soldiers.Muslim soldiers mainly fought for islam.
RE:700 Years of OPPRESSION
by mohammed hasnain on May 10, 2007 07:42 AM Permalink
R we stil living ina age of barbarism???If you dont much about Isam,pls excuse and get out ur furstration on r servants..
Some of the posts suggests that these people have done their studies only for earning..... and NOT FOR LEARNING.
Please.... understand that.... Proper Study of Humanities and Society only can bring back the peace and Order which we have lost from our Lives.
Be it Bahadur Shah Zafar or Muslims or any Hindu leaders all fought against the British Evils and oppressions. and finally won the war of Independence under the wise Leadership of Congress (Gabdhi,Nehru, Azad etc).
It is the Anti-national elements like RSS and Co. which have been doing harms in society now. Then also they(mahasabha) conspired Brits.
These are actually Brahamanism tactics which were used to bring back the old Evil oppressive Power and Pride which Brahmins lost in 11 th Century to Muslims..
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by prashant kalantri on May 10, 2007 08:00 PM Permalink
it is known fact that all muslims are not terrorists, but it is also known fact that all terrorists are muslim.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by amit jaiswal on May 14, 2007 03:04 PM Permalink
From all above posts...its crystal clear that whatever brits wanted before leaving India is getting fulfilled by us...we r doing exactly whatever they thought to be done by us...its so clear and visible...they have successfully divided us...gr8 going guys...keep it up.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by mohammed sahim ahmed on May 14, 2007 03:29 PM Permalink
this one media-coined sentence does not make u a learned man. in fact it shows ur ignorance.
Todays LTTE and Naxals and IRA militants are not muslims. isnt it??????
In the past, George washington of US.... and Bhagat Singh and Subhash chandra Bose .. all were called Terrorists.... but u know the truth.
actually they were having a fighting spirit against injustices like The Muslims always had and today also they have.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by Shankar Panday on May 10, 2007 03:47 AM Permalink
British were a colonial power. Its bad we were enslaved by the British. But bear in mind that at the coming of the British India were practically under the control of Hindu & Sikh except for NW, Bengal, UP and parts of Deccan. None of the Muslim rulers presented any opposition except for Tipu Sultan. Islamic rule was evil and backward.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by daniel on May 10, 2007 08:15 AM Permalink
what absolute rubbish! are these replies just posted for the sake of it? please dont criticize each other with proof and knowledge. whats the base for example with which shankar pandey has said no muslim rulers presented any opposition and what is he trying to imply? the 1857 mutiny had majority muslim component. Its an established fact in history books. so is Mr.shankar trying to imply?
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by Ramprakash Naidu on May 10, 2007 04:45 PM Permalink
Hi All, Whatever happened has happened, we cannot and shouldnot judge the past with present knowledge and time, it will be grossly wrong. Everybody has his plus and minuses and every religion has its own points, according the societys it evolved in and the geographical areas it applied to......there is no universally correct religion.....pls understand this and refrain from hate comments on other religions and digging up old unnecessary issues....Jai Hind.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by amjad ansari on May 10, 2007 08:44 PM Permalink
It has been long acuisation against ISLAM that it has reached "EAST TO WEST" due to Force and conversion: Well let us explore the truth whether it is or not. According to Qur'an adam & Eve, Noah and other revealed Prophets & Avatar are Muslim who preached subbmission to Allah/God. If we are educated and studied the history then we should accept that earlier ( Medival Age or pre Christ era) was the era of Kings & Emporers, who had the sole right to do whatever s/he would like to do with the losers. Islam has came to save the humanity from Idol Worship and the oppressed people like , Dalits, Women, Blacks and etc etc. If my memory serves me in the right way then I must write that in India Muslims Ruled almost for 1000 years and still MUSLIMS are in minority.If they would have forced ( which No one would dare to oppose ) every one india now will be MUSLIM, even in Malaysia & Indonesia Muslims ruled, but with out any use of SWORD. Their majority is MUSLIM. Have you ever tried to think why so many religons has came out of Hinduism ? just because Hindu religion itself has the discrimination among the People but ISLAM Said that you are all "EQUALL" In Bhagwat Gita when Arjun refuse to fight against kauravas, Krishna encourage Arjun to fight even though they are your brother , if you wat to go to paradise : Chapter 2 Verse 31-35. Here I strongly believe that Kauravas are hindus too. Duryudhana even tries to molest "PANCHALI" You should be ever greatful to Islam which break the chain of Opression and unjust.I wish to remind the whole Hindu Intellet that Not Islam But Christians(So called Peace loving people)who attacked whole world and spread terrorism. Who is Hitler, Stalin, Massilon, who started the world war 1 & 2????. who invited Mohd of Ghazni & Mohd Gauri? Which religion stops dalit to enter the Temple ? Do ISLAM prevent any Poor or Rish muslim to enter Masjid? all are equal in form of Allah. Could you please let us know to Improve our Knowledge which practical Muslim ruler Raped Hindu/Christian Women? Which Practical Muslim ruler supported Mass Murder of innocent People? If fighting for Justice & for Noble cause breaking the opression of poorer people is terrorism then we should be proud to be a terrorist. When Hitler started killing thre jews whole Germany was supporting him , same like whole Gujrat ( Except handful of Hindus) was sopported MODI in 2002 anti Muslim riots. ISLAM does not permit riot ( Quran says : Kill the rioters whether he is Muslim or Non muslim) why have ypou forget the Role of Ulema's in Freedom struggle ? Muslim was the first to struggle with British, Name of few is ( Chand BIBI, Saiyid Ahmed in 1831. Yahya Ali, Ahmadullah, Amiruddin, Ibrahim Mandal, And Rafique Mandal. Beacause of few muslim you cannot blame whole religion. if that is the case we are proud to be the followers of Peace Loving religion called ISLAM. Since Christians are the one who enslaved whole world till 20th Century. I applogise if anyone's religious sentiments hurted.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by VIJAYA BUDDHIRAJU on May 09, 2007 04:19 PM Permalink
Absolute trash. What has Brahminism as you call it to with it. Islam is most suspected religion in view of its past and present actions against non-muslims. You are trying to write a history. Brahminism is not oppressive as you are calling. Islam was cetainly was. Brahminism, if you prefer to call,paved way for Buddhism, Jainism, Music, art, sculputre, beautiful philosophies, kavyas etc. Waht did Islamism create. Murder, rape, plunder, terror. Wake up. How did Muslim countries formed? with love!!
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 09, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
Dear Buddhi Raju, Why are you trying to hide the 5000 Years of Opression on Shudras... According to Vedas, Shudras are created from the Feet of God and Brahmin is created from the Head of God... The caste system in India is eliminated only after the arrival of Semitic Religions, otherwise still India would have been in the Deep Clutches of Un-Touchability and attrocities... YOu can win a country by Compulsion but you cannot Win the Hearts of People by compulsion.. Islam melted the Hearts of Millions in the World... If your Theory of Violence and rape is true means, do you want to say that Your Grand Mothers were hiding in caves for 1000 years of Muslim rule in India ?? and you retained Hinduism ??? What a joke, every Hindu in India is a witness that there was no compulsion in Islam...
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Shankar Panday on May 10, 2007 03:51 AM Permalink
Hindus dont go blindly by according to this and that..only Muslims do that these days Ibrahim sahab. Hinduism is a religion that evolves - the Vedas are eternal knowledge but are not to be taken as a Quranic verse which when it asks you to kill, u just go and kill the kafir. The Semitic religions hijacked God. Indias caste problem is not unique, but all ancient societies go through evolution. HIndus dont hv to get stuck in caste at all. At the end of the day the eternal truths of Hinduism comes up and that has nothing to do with caste or birth. Btw the class disparity among Muslims is far greater than in Hindus, because Muslims society is purely feudal.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by Aurijit Sarkar on May 10, 2007 02:33 AM Permalink
you really have to wake up, don't you, Ibrahim? I'm not saying that every muslim believes in those barbaric ideals, but history doesn't need to be rewritten to know that conversions were rampant during muslim invasions! even some Mughal Emperors openly endorsed forced conversions..
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by Prithvi Paul on May 09, 2007 10:47 PM Permalink
No don't say that Ibrahim,Islam is the only religion which has destroyed India ,and all the muslims in Indian sub continent are hindus thats enough proof of tolerance and love ,BS its the religion which is based on rape , plunder and slaughter , your fore fathers were converted with force period. even today look at all muslim majority countries , non muslims are treated very badly and no rights. So muslims were responsible and as to 1857 , with destruction and slavery for 800 years that probably was due , but needed some more blood and non stop violence against English , if Indians had revolted against muslims , which in history they did but gave up , may be india should have tried freedom from islam ,even today we need freedom from islam or india will become muslim majority and there will be mass murders of non muslims so before they do this we need to do something very soon.
RE:Freinds......... History is about... Learning Lesson.... and Keep Peace and Justice in Society
by archana on May 10, 2007 11:48 AM Permalink
Go through the history of Kashmir,there was a compulsion of Islam in Kashmir,all temples were tuned into mosques, hundreds of temples were destroyed.Kashmiri pandits were forced to adopt Islam, the biggest example is the temple priest of famous temple now called Shah Hamdan was forced to become Muslim. Who r muslims, Hindus who were forced to adopt Islam.
RE:[object]
by prashant kalantri on May 10, 2007 08:05 PM Permalink
pl. check the history of your forefathers, if you have resources or guts to face the truth, you will come to know that your forefathers were from the great religion -hindu
1. Rama Sethu to be demolished. 2. Temples in Kerala taken over by State Govt 3. In Andhra , State Govt fiddling in Tirupati 4. Karnataka Benny Hinn gives lecture with blessings of state and central govt. 5. Siddhivinayak trust interference in Maharashtra
and many more
WDalrymple is history repeating as you have said with the missionaries as in 1857?
if you want to learn the meaning of life you need to learn india first and the scriptures produced in this country. indians have to be proud of this becoz it is a global statement.
bharat as a country has always been wonderful. everybody wanted to loot this country, brits did it in the name of business, turks robbed this country for the riches.
india is so ancient tht it has undergone so many rapid changes, some were enforced on it, some came as the time has passed .
we had civilization when people in the western countries were hanging to tress like apes.
this country has seen everything and has everything.
instead of blaming one another for the recent bad past, if we move into the future with the values/ethics that our scriptures had taught us, our future generations will definitely enjoy a very bright future.
RE:india teaches the meaning of life
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 09, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
Mr. jayakrishnan, I appreciate your Vision... But one thing that I like to clarify is, before the Invasion of Muslims in India, India was not a single country, but divided into 300 small countries.. All these 300 countries never dwelt in Peace, even in a small state of present Tamilnadu, Pandyas and Cholas are fighting each other.. Today why India is a single country Bcoz, it is governed by Medieval Invaders as One country for 800 years and then taken by British.. If there was no invasion, then still India would have been 300 small countries... Everything is for your good.... Think about it
RE:india teaches the meaning of life
by Hindustani on May 10, 2007 02:29 AM Permalink
O IBRAHIM SHEIK Before ADVOCATING BARBARIC MUSLIM INVADERS......Just Go and Search For Your Identity !!!!! Whether You are A DESCENDENT Of CONVERTED Hindus or a Descendent of BARBARIC MUSLIM Invaders !!!!!
If You are Descendent of EVIL BLOOD then Continue with Your HATEFUL Teachings of KURAN and TAAREEF of ALLAH and Its FOLLOWERS !!!!!
Also When BRITISHERS THREW OUT Muslim RULERS and UNITED INDIA From Afganistan to BURMA.......Why Were YOUR MUSLIM Kings and MUSLIM Civilians....NOT HAPPY with BRITISH RULE !!!! If you have ANYTHING in your HEAD Except KURANIC BHOOSA .....You Will UNDERSTAND the PROBLEM of FOREIGN RULE !!!!!
SHAME on You Like People Who Justify the BARBARIC Acts of MUSLIM Invaders !!!!
RE:india teaches the meaning of life
by r patil on May 09, 2007 11:07 PM Permalink
You should little bit of islamic history a bit. India became more fragmenteddin muslim rule. They were many muslim rulers at a any given time,you are under wrong impression that all of india was under one muslim ruler.And by the way they were more bloody wars continues wars in muslim period with different muslim rulers and an between hindu rulers.Dont forget even the relatively considered peaceful mogul rulers like shahjahan was contantely under war nearly 1 war each year!!!Further more they bloody battles or murders within royal families killing 10's of prices.Muslim ruler bruality does not syop there they just did not fight wih the enemies army but also burned fields and houses of enemy citizen and killed thee civilians too.
This practise was of attacking villages ,civilians,crops,slaving females and children was never never practised in India before the muslim envasion.You can read this testamony from not only indian rulere rules but even from outside evidence from greek hisorian,travelers and chinese travels.
RE:india teaches the meaning of life
by Aurijit Sarkar on May 10, 2007 02:45 AM Permalink
ok.. i will agree that there were several kingdoms. however, there is a caveat in your theory! although there was no concept of India, there has been a concept for bharat for long before the earliest Muslim invasions. there is also a basis for what i'm saying. even though the neighboring kingdoms were vying against each other for farmland and resources, people from villages across borders were still visiting each other and calling each other brothers. there would be weddings across borders, and on occasion when the wedding was in the family of an important figure of the village, kings from both sides would visit the wedding and give their blessings to the couple! so you see, the "division" between the people was only political. in reality, you always had a sense of belonging between people across the entire country! as for "our own good", i think we as indians should start thinking in terms of developing the country, not our religions! if there is something in our religion that is hampering the progress of our Nation, we should change it. i don't mean to be offensive, but i think the days when it was wise to "reproduce and proliferate" are gone. it's more prudent to control our population for the sake of our country and its people. would you be strong enough to make a statement saying "I will accept birth control measures. I shall not be detrimental to my country's development and vow not to produce more than 2 children!"? If yes, then you would be patriotic..
RE:india teaches the meaning of life
by suvrat mahajan on May 10, 2007 02:54 PM Permalink
If u have read a little bit of History then u'll know that India was one unit under Muaryan and Gupta Dynasty long b4 there were any invasion
'The bitterest result of 1857 was Independence in 1947 for which the country was not ready in terms of a intellectually and emotionally mature leadership and look at the state of the country today.
RE:'The bitterest result of 1857
by Ascetic on May 09, 2007 02:33 AM Permalink
'State of the country today'... hm. We had unimaginable poverty even under British rule, except that even middle or rich class Indians were not given respect. So many Indians were slaves to English with no laws protecting them. We may not be a superpower today, but when the British invaded us they did not have an iota of interest in our development. All developments were made for their interest. So we may be suffering today, but we have self-respect. Being a poor and free is better than being poor and slave.
