indian democractic freedom is the main cause of downfall of country ,, there should not excessive freedom to criticise, but for more productive work,, this nation should of great worker not great socalled chor, corrupt and socalled sucular people ,
RE:indian democrartic freedom is main reason for downfall of nation,
by on Jun 29, 2007 11:13 PM Permalink
People in india are given too much of freedom....and they are so used to it that if any one tries to hold them is removed ......Kalam did propose the best thing for India....the Biparty election system......and see what he has to go thru with...
RE:RE:There are few people here who are blaming BJP for this! But they are keeping complete mum on mechanization of Musharraf!
by RightSaid Fred on Jun 29, 2007 06:57 PM Permalink
90% of the Comments here are from BJP/RSS tatttoos!
RE:There are few people here who are blaming BJP for this! But they are keeping complete mum on mechanization of Musharraf!
by Srinivas on Jul 01, 2007 08:38 PM Permalink
Fred, your tattoos will be seen in Italy not in India.
What do you think Indians will be fooled forever many Indians have realized the foolish tactics of Pseudo secularists.
anyway thanks for reading all the articles and giving the essence to everyone. Read more.
RE:There are few people here who are blaming BJP for this! But they are keeping complete mum on mechanization of Musharraf!
by prashant upadhyay on Jun 29, 2007 02:05 PM Permalink
Buddy what Bhaskar is saying is truth! It's matter of country's integration and not about being some party's tatto.
RE:There are few people here who are blaming BJP for this! But they are keeping complete mum on mechanization of Musharraf!
by Special on Jun 29, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
Prashant and pradeep,
do u guys think what advani did in pakistan acceping the babri case as wrong is good...
I think, it was the need of the hour to disclose the tapped conversation. It served the purpose of showing the world that the intruders were Pakistanis. It also served the purpose of making Nawaz Sharif what was going on against him. It also made all the Indian Citizens aware of India's capability in espionage whereby we could even catch an enemy-general online! By not releasing that tape then would not have made any difference because we KNOW that Musharraf would continue his gimmicks against India anyway and so we may not need anymore of his conversations in future tapped! But we gave hell of a shock to him at that particular time. I like that and so also the entire Indian population. It is a disgrace to Musharraf which we gave to him just one day before his visit to India. I liked that. It was some aggressive move by a nation teased as a soft state.
RE:RE:Release of Kargil Tapes
by Subhash Niyogi on Jun 30, 2007 06:52 PM Permalink
Bhaskar, Well said.I agree with you. What about Uncle Sam's hypocrisy during that time. Now we are seeing Sam in new avatar with his new nuclear burger wada paav for poor Indian chums.
The topic has not been debated by the author adequately. Intelligence is essential for having a strategy for long term solution to the problems facing the country. Seen in this light, the Kashmir Question if it is accepted by the Indian Govt., remains unsolved even today. Since, the strategy if there be one has not played out with any tangible result such as restoration of normal civilian life, or acceptance of India's governance alike other states or the willigness of the J&K region for the abrogation of Art 370 and many other pointers. If India does not accept the Kashmir Question then the Kargil Agression ought to have been pursued further in the International fora and Pakistan made to pay reparations for this adventure. Sadly, our country has chosen to bury this past, the wastage of precious lives notwithstanding. The Kargil tapes show how our country fails to exploit the advantage that it gave to us, although momentarily.It seems to have alerted future adventurers about the dangers of intercepted communication, we may not get a second chance again.Besides, lifting the veil on the way we use valuable intelligence, the gains of this operations are minimal. The Kargil Tapes operation seems to be a small sideshow in the entire drama of the Kargil operations and does not merit much publicity.
India is ruled by bureaucrats..believe it or not! The netas come and go. They are parasites...but the ultimate are the bureaucrats. RAW & IB all are run by bureaucrats in the typical risk-free style (blaming others)for everything. The Army at the senior level has become exactly like that. Juniors are (by God's grace) still patriotic and self-less. But the days are not far when they start realizing that no one (not the Netas, not the Bureaucrats, not the Senior Army Officials...and least of all the common citizens) is bothered for solving problems. We want to be safe---only personally-- I cannot write details because it is depressing knowing how much dirt exists in the system. But the bottomline is that we Indians are a bunch of irreverent, selfish, untrustworthy people. IF we just introspect, we may see it clearly that we are the only ones who do not have good relations with any of our neighbours. There exists no consistent foreign policy. We have never supported any neighbour in their crisis. Research and you will find that we have had a hand in all the crises in the neighbouring countries..the LTTE was trained by us...and then we send an IPKF. We never supported Russia through its crisis and sided immediately with USA as soon as Russia collapsed. We avoided Iraq (it was the only muslim country to support us on Kashmir) when it saw the bad times. In fact..we never even voiced our opinion. We are a bunch of ungrateful people! We get netas we deserve!
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 28, 2007 01:25 PM Permalink
Your views about India,its people,leaders,bureaucrats,army,army officers are so pathetic that it smells of bais.If you are so disillusioned and disgusted about everything Indian,why don't you just leave this country?Its easy to critisize.Try giving positive suggestions to improv the the situation.
RE:Root Cause
by pSSn hOMMe on Jun 28, 2007 01:51 PM Permalink
Dear Pankaj, Never once did I mention anywhere that I am disillusioned or hopeless. I only gave a picture of what things are. I am doing all in my power to make things better and have succeeded too. Have served the country in the Armed forces and am serving to my heart's content in the civil world too. But you see..Truth hurts...and maybe you have reacted this way because somewhere you felt it. BTW, What have you done for the country?
RE:Root Cause
by JGN on Jun 28, 2007 03:23 PM Permalink
Dear pSSn hOMMe, have you been working in the Armed Forces and now working as a civilian for the benefit of the country or to earn your livlihood? We all hear big talks about sacrifices for the country, etc day in and day out but the fact remains that individuals are basically selfish and every action is a culmination of the same. So please do not try to befool anybody. Consider mr. Pankaj also has contributed to the best of his ability.
RE:Root Cause
by pSSn hOMMe on Jun 29, 2007 02:02 PM Permalink
yes, have served the Army. And to tell you..you are 100% correct when you say that individuals are selfish..they are. Exceptions are there. I can tell you that the truth is hard to digest and thats why the likes of Pankaj live in their own worlds...closing their eyes to the problems around them. Being positive is one thing and being oblivious is another. HAving done a lot of work and still continuing positively, why cant I give you an insight to the filth prevalent in the form of redundant systems & corrupt leaders at all levels? We must know what happens around us.
RE:Root Cause
by Sanjay Bhakat on Jun 29, 2007 09:13 PM Permalink
Dear pSSn hOMMe, I agree to your views and things you have stated, my father, now retired, from Indian Army has fought in 1962, 1965 and 1971. I can only say as of now, please don't try to make these seemingly intelligent people understand that by burying ones head under sand the problems won't vanish, no use u trying to make them understand as they enjoy running away from problems and lending ears to good things of life howsoever adulterated it may be.
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 29, 2007 03:18 PM Permalink
why are you taking it personally,Sir?India dosen't have dirth of advisors.We find them dime a dozan here.And some of them claim to have served the army and are so courageous that they discuss under pseudo names.
RE:RE:Root Cause
by Soumendra Mookerjee on Jun 29, 2007 08:12 PM Permalink
Sir I am wating to hear more from you ... Please ... give us some valuable insight into these affairs particularly the corruption which is said to be so rampantly prevalant in the army...
RE:RE:RE:Root Cause
by Sanjay Bhakat on Jun 29, 2007 09:21 PM Permalink
u rossogolla .. why u r so interested to know abt corruption abt Indian Army?? U want to score some marks abt your GK in front of your wife!!! U moron ... or u want to have some sadist pleasure in propagating further as how low our country has got!!! Has anybody from your family ever thought of enlisting in Defence other than eating chop muri and rossogolla and doing useless adda!!! If u don't have something positive or constructive to say, keep ur fingers off from the keyboard.
RE:Root Cause
by zahid meer on Jun 29, 2007 03:11 AM Permalink
dear pankaj and jgn, fhy cant u people digest the facts presented by mr pssn home. he has given good insight into working of our system which is so much afflicted with corruption dishonesty , treachery and so much. you know why kashmir problem is not over because even these military officers are corrupt who take bribes to release dreaded militants and they also get away with it.we need to know about these issues so that we can do something to prevent it. indeed we are all capable of doing good to our nation and i believe all of us here in this discussion want this to happen thank u and be cool
RE:Root Cause
by Soumendra Mookerjee on Jun 29, 2007 11:53 AM Permalink
Politics in India is worse than you can imagine. It has been lurking in India not for just 60 years of our independence but for ore that 150 years. All these confusions and misgivings are culminations of the sins that have been commited not just during the Kargil was or 1971, but long ago. Whatever we have been taught about our struggle for independence, how many of you really believe that they are correct? Or just moulded according to the benifits of a selected few? To know about more authentic history of the facts of our struggle for freedom, try this site http://www.nathuramgodse.com/. Then try to pass your judgement on the current state of affairs. The question is not about who has done what for this country. If that is the question. what can we do as insignificant citizens of this country? How much power can we afford to excercise that have been bestowed to us by the constitution of India in reality? So what we can do the best is what we are already doing now. MUDSLINGING at each other exactly the way our respected leaders do in the public eyes. Forget the current situation. we as a country are surviving on our own for such a long time is a miracle in itself. Be happy with that. But I can tell you onething, looking at the fate of Satyendra Dubey and the family members of our Param Vir Chakra holders, atleast no person with some sanity left in his mind is going to do any sacrifice for this country.
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 28, 2007 03:17 PM Permalink
Dear pSSn... 1)You don't have to mention so,your whole script is shouting hoarse that you are sick of this country. 2)If you are serving this country in whatever way,I congratulate you for your efforts. 3)I have reacted to your negative approach,and not because I agree with your observations. 4)What I have done for the country?....is non of your business.
RE:Root Cause
by pSSn hOMMe on Jun 29, 2007 01:47 PM Permalink
You just don't seem to think rationally ..do you? You asked me what I have done for the country..I told you. Very simply..and I asked you the same question. I cannot see anything derogatory or sick in this. You may or may not choose to say. But you choose to get offended buddy. You just can't handle the dire reality , can you? And as far as giving suggestions are concerned ..I dont see any coming from you.
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 28, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
Dear pSSn... 1)You don't have to mention so,your whole script is shouting hoarse that you are sick of this country. 2)If you are serving this country in whatever way,I congratulate you for your efforts. 3)I have reacted to your negative approach,and not because I agree with your observations. 4)What I have done for the country?....is non of your business.
RE:RE:Root Cause
by Sanjay Bhakat on Jun 29, 2007 09:10 PM Permalink
Pankaj ... tuh kya pagal yea yera hei? Its eveident except for biting everybody around u ... u have not done much for the country and thats why ur reply was crisp ... what u have done for the country is nobody's business. Well said u creep.
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 30, 2007 10:12 AM Permalink
Your language speaks volumes about your level of intellegence and class.I repeat ,what anybody has doen for the country is nobody's business.Thats not a precondition to express your opinion.And if someone thinks that serving the army is the only way to serve the nation,he is living in fools paradise.
RE:Root Cause
by RightSaid Fred on Jun 29, 2007 06:54 PM Permalink
Prashant - Are you in the US or somwhere outside India? I wont be surprised if you are!
RE:Root Cause
by Manish Kumar on Jun 29, 2007 11:27 AM Permalink
dear pssn homme You need to understand a strange paradox in the life of a nation .Succesful Nations are born on idealism but Nations are not made succesful by idealism alone .There are and there will be situations where what you do will be seen as contradictory to the basic philosophy of the nation but still will be the best course of action in the larger interest of the nation .We need to look at all those actions in that light .In fact we are not doing so well because as a nation we are too soft and the "bad" examples that you have quoted are few and far in between . Surely some of these actions caused more dmage than good , but they are still better then no action at all .Complex but true .
RE:Root Cause
by Pankaj Gadkari on Jun 29, 2007 01:15 PM Permalink
I know there are many things, why,most things in this country are not right.We Indians are too accomodative and have too short memory.Worst still,we always tend to find solace by blaming the destiny. All I am trying to say is let's make an effort to set things right beginning at our end.India has seen worst times than this in the past.But we did come out of it.Very simply,if you don't like the present situation,its us who has to make a change.Nothing wrong in critisizing the establishment but please suggest an alternative.Let's shed the thought"Nothing happens here"
RE:RE:Root Cause
by Sanjay Bhakat on Jun 29, 2007 09:17 PM Permalink
u should frist make a begining by telling us one good deed u did for the country and we will follow u SIR other than prophecy and biting around all of us.
RE:RE:Root Cause
by pSSn hOMMe on Jul 01, 2007 03:57 PM Permalink
Thanx Shree! I believe that only if we start accepting a problem as it is, we are taking the first step towards sovling a problem. I spoke of the general state of affairs of our country. I did not want to create a negative atmosphere here. But the truth is almost always bitter. My simple question to all of you here is -- "If you lost your cellphone, how many of you would feel comfortable going to the Police Station to lodge an FIR?" . If you answer this question honestly, you would get the pulse of our administration. Not to talk of going to get your land registered, file a case in courts, getting an ellectricity connection...most of us pay bribes ..get connections at high levels to make calls..and what not..or else ..dhakke khaate rehte hain saalon tak! The same bureaucracy is there in the RAW & IB, what can we expect of them? I know exceptions are there but how many. I would like to hear from all you people to give one example of an honest & sincere public servant, businessman or anyone they know of..one who has been sincere in whatever he/she has done in life till now.I can say for myself. I have always worked for the organizations goals and never for my own self. Have sufferred but have not given up...and will never do. What I request is-if youngsters should take oath to try and not become corrupt as the system but try to change things. To rise to honesty we have to first accept & realize how much have we sunk into corruption.
The Kargil war was the continuation of the same old story that happened during the India-China war. Our leaders have too much of trust towards our neighbouring countries. Because of Nehru's negligence on the part of intelligence matters resulted in Indo-China war. Then because of NDA's(Vajpayee's)trust towards Musharraf and his negligence towards the intelligence reports resulted in Kargil war, thus inflicting heavy human loss on our side.
These politicians are never bothered about the safety, security and sovereignity of our country. They are always bothered about hoe they can cling to power by all means and how they can swindle money.
The pity is that they do not even have the pastoral prudence to know that they should always have an eye on the neighbours. Now they trust the US and Chinese too much. We do not know what kind of result this trust id going to yield.....????. Only God knows.
RE:The same old story
by Michael Raj on Jun 28, 2007 12:33 PM Permalink
Sorry mam. I wanted to compliment lucky. By mistake did the same to myself. The mistake is deeply regretted.
RE:RE:The same old story
by Madhan Raj on Jun 28, 2007 04:20 PM Permalink
o.k. your apology accepted. people tend to make mistakes. next time when you write some thing, ask permission from sveltlana and then write.
RE:The same old story
by Aris on Jun 28, 2007 12:03 PM Permalink
NRIs interferance in foriegn policy is dangereous to us. We don't trust China but our govenment trust US just because of NRIs pressure. The policies of nation should be our people residing in nation not for non residings. That shows money power in every decision
RE:The same old story
by harish shankar on Jun 28, 2007 08:36 PM Permalink
well I am with sino-indian business community... what matters to me n the business community is money.. nothing else. if think u India doesn't favour China think again... China is the second trading partner of India next to US that too in just 3-4 years. Tremendous growth.. don;t ever go by your nationalistic overtones.. reality is something else..
RE:The same old story
by Madhan Raj on Jun 28, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
The directions of one italian is plunging the country into oblivion. If we sell the country to the italians, then there will be nothing left than chaos and debris.
RE:The same old story
by Manjula A on Jun 28, 2007 01:34 PM Permalink
Now that you said this, I wonder if it's good to have one of those, not so good, not really dynamic Prime Ministers always. Nehru and Vajpayee are the only two Prime Ministers whom lot of people call really dynamic. They are supposed to be Statesmen, and not just politicians. They were seen to be ABOVE the Petty Politics. And they were the ones who seem to have goofed up. While all the others have been called Petty, Power hungry, bitchy etc. they have been able to protect India, mostly. Well! What an irony.
Makes me feel a little better about the so-called premier organization. However, neither this author or the other author address the failure of the intelligence to find out that the Army cheif in pakistan had sent soldiers until very late. They had taken the peaks and cost many precious jawans lives on our side. I would say overall, the intel under the direct supervision of several PM's is in poor shape
BJP just thought to make this war as major issue and collect money to use that money in election of 99..Why they delay usage of air-strike to hit the targets of intruders..100 intruders sitting on top of hills killed our soldier who were scaling up to fight..That was the plan our army have..laters BJP's minister caught in cascate scam in which they stole money from dead soldiers even..no one should forget these politician are those people who eve looking for money to allocate pumps to Kargil shaheed(Refer to Kargil Heights petrol pump of capt Anuj)..bast**d ministers collected moeny in the name of war and they use that money in their constituency to feed local goons for boooth capturing and buying votes..only chances indians have to get rid of these idiots was when they attack on parlianment..It was our hardluck that they faild to enter parliament and do the cleaning job for ..Had they have shooted 10-15 ministers ..India would have got some relief from these basta*ds politicians..When kargil war was going on Govt never mobilize more army ..they were having meetings...but when terrorist reach parliament to attack them then they mobilize army throught out western border..So soldiers life no meaning to them and their won life is very important to them..How many politicians have their relatives in army..if they have have any they get him transfered to some trainings capms thats it..never on border..
RE:Only BJP wins
by prashant upadhyay on Jun 29, 2007 02:21 PM Permalink
Lucky is totally out his wits. Encouraging attack on parliament can only be a lunatic's wish or a traitor's. His views are twisted and raw.
RE:Only BJP wins
by Harish Gurumoorthy on Jun 28, 2007 09:54 AM Permalink
Yaar Lucky, are you a Muslim? Because your hatred for BJP shines through your post. Remember, if the Congress were in power (like it was in 1962 when we lost miserably to China), we would have fared worse.
RE:Only BJP wins
by prabhat mohanty on Jun 28, 2007 10:42 AM Permalink
If I do not like BJP, I am not a Hindu? Wow! What self-fulfilling asumptions!!! And since India is Hindu predominant country, you think more or less the whole country is BJP supporter. May be with that assumptions, BJP went to election in UP? Got the befitting answer, I trust. (in UP election)
RE:Only BJP wins
by dega venkat on Jul 14, 2007 08:44 AM Permalink
hi prabhat, BSP could win becoz of hindu votes only. When all brahmins supporting BSP, how BJP can win? No matter who wins elections, Hindus are treated like 2nd class citizens in their own land. See this PM - Manmohan says - he couldn't sleep after seeing the pictures of crying parents of whoever suspected in glasgow incident, why he couldn't express such feeling when mumbai train blasts happened.
RE:Only BJP wins
by Harish Gurumoorthy on Jun 28, 2007 03:13 PM Permalink
Lalua and Prabhat, read the post before barking. The coffin scandal took place under George Fernandes the defense minister, who was from the Samata party. And do you think the petrol bunks would have been allocated faster if the Congress were in power?
RE:Only BJP wins
by prabhat mohanty on Jun 28, 2007 06:27 PM Permalink
"...Yaar Lucky, are you a Muslim? Because your hatred for BJP shines through your post...."
Dear Harish,
This was your quote. Wasn't it?
"...Lalua and Prabhat, read the post before barking..."
RE:Only BJP wins
by Harish Gurumoorthy on Jun 29, 2007 11:23 AM Permalink
Is that all you have Prabhat dear? No response to my statement? Well, I'm not disappointed because I didn't expect much in the first place..adios!
RE:Only BJP wins
by Lalua on Jun 28, 2007 10:14 AM Permalink
Harish Ji, You mean to say whoever is not supporting BJP blindly like you are not Hindu... Very good assumption. So according to your assumption Hindu population in India is just 22%...Thats what BJP got in the last election.
RE:RE:Only BJP wins
by Harish Gurumoorthy on Jun 28, 2007 04:41 PM Permalink
Yaar Lalua, don't be a Lalloo, the fact that Lucky spews venom at BJP even for the coffin scam for which as Defense Minister, George Fernandes of the Samta Party is more responsible, clearly shows that the man has a lot to learn about. But as a Muslim, he's programmed to hate the BJP.
Also, if you look at India's 60-year history, Congress is responsible for the sad plight of minorities, appeasing their leaders with positions and titles, and the general Muslim public with sops. Have they done anything useful for the Muslim community? Had they done anything, would Muslims find themselves languishing at the bottom of Indian society as they do now?
