I dont feel this reservation will be used properly. Most of the ministers are OBC's and they want to make their family and caste people to make full use.
So the main purpose of enlighting the under privilaged people will not be putforth.
I guess Mr Seshan inspite of being the former election commissioner is not aware of the situation or doesnt read ILO/UNO,etc reports...Reservation has definitely helped a lot of ppl coming with so many stats proving it including the BPL stats.Without reservation we wouldnt have seen ppl like Bhalchandra Mungekar,Deelip Mhaske,Thorat,etc coiming up...I think it should be known as deservation and not reservation as now education is not just the monopoly of the few upper castes.....Till the time there is blatant casteism prevalent reservation is one of the tolls to tackle it.
RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by raghvendra kumar on Jan 25, 2007 12:29 PM Permalink
i think education shouldnt be linked ti reservation.two students are getting education at the same place with the same teachers,but for jobs one is getting reservation and other is not.This isnt at all justified after 50 yrs of independence.Caste shouldnt be basis for reservations.
RE:RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by vinay shende on Jan 25, 2007 12:42 PM Permalink
two students are getting same place but the blot of casteism is still there.......Two ppl wish to enter the samw temple but one is forbidden from entering it coz he is a dalit.Dusnt caste come into picture there?Lower castes cannot get into any of the top english medium schools...You should look into rural India and know the reality...Dalits are not allowed to enter schools,fetch water from wells.BArbers dont cut their hairs....During the time of jobs their surnames are asked so that caste can be recognised...........When progressive countries like US,Africa,etc can adopt affirmative action on ths basis of race which is also a form of caste ,why cant we do it?dont marriages happen on the basis of caste?
RE:RE:RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by Deepak Bhatnagar on Jan 25, 2007 01:12 PM Permalink
There is not a single good English medium school in India which prohibits dalits to take admission, we all stay in INDIA and we are also aware of Indian reality. Even if there is any, proper way is to file complain against schools and bring this issue to media. And I think you are asking reservation at wrong place, you should ask for reservations in temples, water wells and barbers shops, where as per you dalits are prohibited, reservations in IIM and IIT will not solve this problem. Proper solution this is to provide basic and good education not only to dalits and pandits but to all. Which is still lacking behind and no one ever thinks of it. At present this caste system is only limited to rural India but with reservation you will spread it across the country.
RE:RE:RE:RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by vinay shende on Jan 25, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
For your kind information castesim is not just limited to rural India but also in Urban India.(read ILO report,the attrocities report of govt of India)...n btw majority of the population is in Rural India still......Till the time casteism is not stopped, reservation is still the best way forward for dalits wishing to study...n abt media the less said the better....The khailanji case is a simple example....Jhajjar case where dalits were lynched is also fresh...The VHP leader said openly that cow is more sacred to Hindus than Dalits......I come from a premiere Post graduate institute where i have see blatant casteism prevail ..even cos coming for recruiting have done this...And in the so called top private colleges we all know how rich upper castes get admission even though thy secure very less marks...look at all pvt engineering n medical colleges....has reservation affected the progress of USA where even harvard openly supports it?we still behave like ignorants without reading stats and knowing whats going i the world...various forms of reservation is there in almost 52 countries of the world....no wonder our human development index is more than 100.....till the time basic education good educaiton is not provided and our hoirrible caste system remains , reservation will continue to be the solution...
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by kapil kumar on Jan 28, 2007 03:20 PM Permalink
ya tahts true!I stay out of India...still indians always ask what is your sir name...whenevr discussion comes on reservation..upper caste guys will start abusing the lower caste people! If ur sir name is of upper caste people wont think about ur ability to work! otherwise people start saying becaz of being lower caste ..u cant do this..then u will have to prove this..in between..the raltionhips with other will end!!! so point is taht change the maintality of upper caste guys..all r not bad..but u will get some who really do this..
RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by biz Narayan on Jan 25, 2007 02:38 PM Permalink
My dear Shinde would be fighting Jehad for Talibans, or may be blasting of WTO to have virgins in heaven, or may be converting the fillipinos to empire of popes, save the ignorant upper castes, who never knew anything untill maoists and jnu hageograpgers introduced civility.
Let Shinde gets liberation by knowing by all these people who availed reservation.
RE:RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by biz Narayan on Jan 25, 2007 06:58 PM Permalink
Shinde seems to be secular, the type of guys who worked in british govt and conspired against Gandhi...the people who gets invitation from china these days. Specilizing in racial studies, where they need caste for a good thesis. Else he is one of the failed students from AIIMS. He wouldn't appreciate study in this life.
RE:another ignorant upper caste spkng out
by Purnanand Bhale on Jan 26, 2007 02:54 PM Permalink
Dear Shinde, Think impartially with the attitude of Nation First. I agree that reservation indeed supported the upcoming of the people like Bhalchandra Mungekar, Deelip Mhaske, Thorat etc. but do you think that once they achived the so called rich people status their children also need reservation which really meant for the needy and poor? The well to do families in backward class (Creamy layer) must be kept aside and there is no logic in calling them backwards. All sort of benefits will be cornered by a small number of people only. The other large number of people will not get any benefits. Think rationally. Be a true Indian. Support reservation for the needy and poor and not for the creamy layer.
Why it's necessary India to competitive globally while most of the peoples are running without food and shelter. The quote says, 'Should India continue with something that has not benefited the real needy for 50 years?' ofcourse more than 2000yrs of suppression (Slavery in all things) can't be completely liberated in just 50yrs. Even today peoples are below poverty level in NE states of India. These days people bother on Racism while castism is going on in the same country, 'Who bothers on it?' May be reservation is only a political gimmick to lure the voters but many peoples from below poverty is getting benefited. Does any one know Mr. Seshan is the heart throb for many upper class politicians.
RE:Thiru
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:20 PM Permalink
but in the past 50 years reservation cant change outlook of people like u then why should we continue with it. seshan is a person who has come up with his hard work. who r u?
RE:Thiru
by Sidhartha Agarwal on Feb 01, 2007 12:59 AM Permalink
What 2000 years of slavery you are talking about? This is sheer jingoism and falsehood. For last 200 years, we were under British rule, for 800 years before that under Muslim rule. If for 1000 years upper caste has not ruled, how can you now prosecute them under the garb of justice? Going further back, our God, Krishna, then many kings like Maurya, etc. were Dalits. So, all this talk of 2000 years of slavery is trash.
Why it%u2019s necessary India to competitive globally while most of the peoples are running without food and shelter. The quote says, %u201CShould India continue with something that has not benefited the real needy for 50 years?%u201D ofcourse more than 2000yrs of suppression (Slavery in all things) can%u2019t be completely liberated in just 50yrs. Even today peoples are below poverty level in NE states of India. These days people bother on Racism while castism is going on in the same country, %u201CWho bothers on it?%u201D May be reservation is only a political gimmick to lure the voters but many peoples from below poverty is getting benefited. Does any one know Mr. Seshan is the heart throb for many upper class politicians.
RE:Thiru
by Sidhartha Agarwal on Feb 01, 2007 01:01 AM Permalink
Not people from below poverty line, but same set of people is reaping benefits time and again. Most notable are President Narayanan's daughter, and sons and daughters of many Ministers.
Reservation is an affront by India haters. They say the british are equal under their queen, but all the problems in Nepal is due to a monarch, rather than decades of blood shed, funded by west and the chinese.
The british institutions tried to destroy Indian ones, they aim to follow the west... and reservation is merely an affront.
A certain percentage of thankless people get jobs and study using reservation. Why not they allow others to take their chance, implementing that creamy layer thing, where one ensures that the rich and westernized have their kids jobsless ?
RE:Reservation is meant to to be an affront by inimical
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:23 PM Permalink
yes. Muslims are now going to steal the reservation of OBC/BC/SC/ST. atleast the later was suppressed for centuries but muslims suppressed everybody. the entire logic of reservations goes wrong here and UPA's vote bank politics is exposed here.
RE:Reservation is meant to to be an affront by inimical
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:23 PM Permalink
yes. Muslims are now going to steal the reservation of OBC/BC/SC/ST. atleast the later was suppressed for centuries but muslims suppressed everybody. the entire logic of reservations goes wrong here and UPA's vote bank politics is exposed here.
We have 27.5% reservation for backword clasess (SC/ST). That is not utilized properly. Out of all backward class only a portion is enjoying this 27% over generations. There is no proper evaluation of how well the 27% reservation is utilized for the goodness of backword classess. Those who enjoyed the reservation in the family including daughter, son, wife this generation should reevaluated for the next generation and so on. Moreover there are crores of people who are not either upper caste or belong to upper caste or general caste category but live below the poverty level. Children from their families are very advanced in knowledge or better in education but just live as a poor. Should there be any reservation for them or our politicians only think for VOTE bank. I agree with Mr. Seshan that politicians heart does not beat for poor or backward class. Their heart beats for next election. This is the way Indian parliament are destroying the real creame layers and loosing our guts in global competition and also India is going backward since the way reservation is taken up by the Govt is a middle age mindset. One more think, Mr. Seshan missed in his conversation, I believe. A corporate sector may include backward class person but if they are not productive enough within years, a corporate can slash down their job and lay off. But what will happen in the jobs of Government Sectors, the qualified most efficient Doctors, Engineers etc.
RE:15% 7.5% of reservation is not utilised properly.
by biz Narayan on Jan 25, 2007 02:47 PM Permalink
Those whose contention is that reservation is not being utilized, essentially agree that it is the marxist or church propaganda institutions along with money that had burden of education.
The Brahmin was poor, untill he got job in JNUs/Brits empire or in some kingdoms. These poor ones kept a tradition that meant pride differently than selling oil, or waging Jehad.
I think reservation is working well, there is already loss of knowledge, though we gained money when everything has been moneytized.
much is talked about reservation in all quarters. the fact remains that the poor and really deserving are never aware that there is one such concession. that is why we see migrant labourers and their families go from state to state for livelihood. no party is bothered about them. it is common sense and logic, if in a que system, there is a byepass of allowing people by the people in the front, the fellow who is standing in the middle and last will never get his chance. this is what happening. this will never end since MLAs, MPs and MINISTERS and other affluent people who by virtue of caste, grab the chances which are due for poor. when it is a question of marrying someone for their wards, they are not prepared to accept the boy or girl from rural poor families. instead they advertise as caste no bar and looking for higher caste brides and grooms. where is the equality among the same caste who is literally stated as backward or scheduled caste.
The present system of reservation is only a political gimmick to lure the voters. But for how long politicians will keep fooling the people with such lollipops. had the intention of governemnt and political parties at large is truly upliftment of so called OBCs and other minorities. Then schemes like sarvshiksha Abhiyan, National literacy mission should have been taken up seriously and quality and equal education be imparted to all children right from nursery so that by the time they reach the age of competitions they are all at par for fair competition. Higher education should be based only on merit as only then India can shine and make aplace for themselves in the global market. A very strong will power is required to implement it. Try to remove the weak points at the root itself rather then when the plant is fully grown, its of no use. further government should make a clear and honest review of its reservation policy in place for last 60 years, after its evaluation only further strategy be developed.
Actual OBCs and other minorities are still not getting the benefit. God has made all human beings equal, only the opportunities given to a person and the capability of him to exploit those opportunities to the best of his ability decides abouthow effective a person is. The caste, religion and other criterias for reservation are only political gimmick. There should be only one criteria if at all reservation is to be done and that too only once is economic backwardness irrespective of class and creed. Politicians are using the excuse of reservation as crutches to win over the voters.
RE:reservation should no be on caste basis
by aniket waghmare on Jan 25, 2007 12:00 PM Permalink
i support your view that reservation should be on the basis of average income. but one more requirement than why do we require caste, are we hypocrat indians ready to abolish caste system and accept average income system. ARE U PERSONALLY READY TO ABOLISH CASTE SYSTEM
Swami Vivekanadna wanted 100 true soldiers to save the country and carry the motherland forward. Mr. T. N. Seshan was one of them. When Mr. Seshan wanted to bring an issue of photo indentity voter card, then Congress party, Communists party, RJD (Laloo), Mulayam's party etc. oppposed him and went to the street against him. Exception was BJP. Now see, present election commission is doing exactly what Mr. T. N. Seshan tried to do 12-15 years before. In many other way he tried to save India from political corruption. This is the time our motherland really needs 100 of T.N. Seshan to save the country and carry her forward and save her.
