The most shocking thing as per me is the fact that the converted muslims of Subcontinent defend Islam and its evil prpagators like Aurangzeb more vehemently than teir counterparts elsewhere.
And dont forget the pain that Indian Muslims ancestors might have gone through when they were forcibly converted to Islam. There are so many refernces in our history where it is cited that 'In one hand was the sword, in The other Quran, and those who accepted the Quran were spared the sword'.
How can we deny the fact this is how our 20 Crore Muslim population has come into existence?
RE:No one notices the most shocking thing!
by hindustani on Feb 17, 2007 11:21 AM Permalink
Mr. Prashant Sharma to get your facts and statement right i wanna make onething clear We Muslims are thankful that we have been forced to accept Islam one religion where the Preist and slave go the same place of Worship unlike your religion where in you guys have different Gods and different Temples for your so called countless caste."The One Who Stays In Mirror House Cannot Pelt Stones On Others. Emma
RE:RE:No one notices the most shocking thing!
by Bipin Musale on Feb 17, 2007 12:09 PM Permalink
what about the Ashraf and Azalaf discrimination?True equality does not exist at all and embracing a particular faith does not make any difference.
RE:RE:No one notices the most shocking thing!
by prashant sharma on Feb 17, 2007 11:41 AM Permalink
dear hindustani, first of all thanks fr calling yourself hindustani. secondly the influence of islam is such that one doesnt think twice before crashing an aeroplane into a building full of children and human beings! (9/11) so your fanaticism towards islam is totally justified.. Lastly we hindus admit we have our problems, but you have no problems right? so this means you can never reform, right? and that is why you are a fanatic.
RE:No one notices the most shocking thing!
by mohammed uddin on Feb 17, 2007 03:14 PM Permalink
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE RESISTANCE TO CHANGE Is my reply to this article. I would not have made my comments on this article, had I not seen VANDE MATARAM, if vandemataram describes the MOTHER LAND as NATION IS GOD, or I PRAY LAND, or I BOW BEFORE LAND then I do not sing that rubbish. I do distinguish the diff. between GOD and LAND, though I am ready to sacrifice my life for the protection of my BIRTH LAND but I am not stupid to call the LAND AS GOD, I am firm believer that HUMAN BEING is superior among all creations / creatures, rest all are servants of HUMANBEING. I do not pray, SUN, MOON, EARTH, STAR, FIRE, WATER, LAND, TREE, STONE, GENETALS. If this gets clear, then the article itself nullifies Assuming that my forefather had I forcible conversion, I do not mind, because now at this age I equally distinguish the difference in between ISLAM and other religion, and I got pride to be a MUSLIM, because ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY is my GOD who is free from all SHAPES, I need not have to give shape to my GOD so as to concentrate, if I am doing that I am distorting the image of GOD at my whelms and fancies whom I have not seen. Coming to AURANGZEB When INDIA obtained INDEPENDENCE under its CONSTITUTION it was written that STATUSQUO shall be maintained, that mean if a structure on that day of independence is a TEMPLE, then shall remain as temple, and if a structure is a MOSQUE shall remain so, irrespective of that building%u2019s or land%u2019s history. This clause is mature enough while viewing MASS and dealing with, because how long one can live in the past ??, how for some one can go back, and find the history and authenticity of the history??. Today it%u2019s a mosque yesterday was a temple day before could have been a mosque or a Buddhist temple???. Therefore STRIKING POINT is essential, and was successfully done at the time of INDEPENDENCE OF INDAI, by the people with knowledge, foresight and value based politicians. What all happened in ayodhya has gone endless, and created hatred in two communities. This proposed exhibition will not yield good result, except added hatred. I DO NOT ADVOCATE ALL DOINGS OF AURANGZEB
Coming to JAZIYA the tax, every nation has same practice, in the form of SALES TAX, INCOME TAX, ENTERTAINMENT TAX, and all DIRECT and INDIRECT TAXES. At the era of Aurangzeb MUSLIMS were paying ZAKATH and non Muslims JAZIYA.
Author of this article is praising WOMEN WITH OPEN FACE, WATCH TV, FILMS
MODESTY IS personal choice, its good to be house lady than a Fashion Model Does any religion advocates a lady and a gentleman to act as wife and husband, once they are not, even on screen ???. SOCIENTAL EVILS ARE ROOT CAUSE OF FILMS. Should I prolong saying that how our Indian females are giving off their clothes oflate, is this not the gift of WATCHING TV, and FILMS???.
It appears that the fight is between two radical group between hindus and muslims. The truth is something else.I fail to understand despite 9/11,Osama-bin-Laden,muslim terrorist,potrayal of muslims as monster by Bush and the Neo-cons,Taliban,atrocities on so called Kashmiri hindus why Islam continues to be fastest growing religion in the USA which is the nucleus of anti-Islam movement.he annual growth rate of conmerted muslim is around 264% where as the next is christianity around 84%.There must be something in it which attarcts men of all caste creed and community all over the world and certainly not inducement as our frien Togadia,Modi et. al believe. It is fight between truth and false propoganda.
RE:RE:Whether Islam or Aurangzeb
by dawood shaikh on Feb 17, 2007 11:09 AM Permalink
You seems like from VHP, Bajrang dal Brigade or driven by the idealogy of Bush.
No matter how much communal people like you hate the spread of Islam, Its gonna spread. so dont worry, you do what u people can.But remember, Truth has to stand out, and falls will perish. I will suggest you to read the HOLY QURAN. Good Luck
RE:RE:RE:RE:Whether Islam or Aurangzeb
by mohammed uddin on Feb 17, 2007 03:16 PM Permalink
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE RESISTANCE TO CHANGE Is my reply to this article. I would not have made my comments on this article, had I not seen VANDE MATARAM, if vandemataram describes the MOTHER LAND as NATION IS GOD, or I PRAY LAND, or I BOW BEFORE LAND then I do not sing that rubbish. I do distinguish the diff. between GOD and LAND, though I am ready to sacrifice my life for the protection of my BIRTH LAND but I am not stupid to call the LAND AS GOD, I am firm believer that HUMAN BEING is superior among all creations / creatures, rest all are servants of HUMANBEING. I do not pray, SUN, MOON, EARTH, STAR, FIRE, WATER, LAND, TREE, STONE, GENETALS. If this gets clear, then the article itself nullifies Assuming that my forefather had I forcible conversion, I do not mind, because now at this age I equally distinguish the difference in between ISLAM and other religion, and I got pride to be a MUSLIM, because ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY is my GOD who is free from all SHAPES, I need not have to give shape to my GOD so as to concentrate, if I am doing that I am distorting the image of GOD at my whelms and fancies whom I have not seen. Coming to AURANGZEB When INDIA obtained INDEPENDENCE under its CONSTITUTION it was written that STATUSQUO shall be maintained, that mean if a structure on that day of independence is a TEMPLE, then shall remain as temple, and if a structure is a MOSQUE shall remain so, irrespective of that building%u2019s or land%u2019s history. This clause is mature enough while viewing MASS and dealing with, because how long one can live in the past ??, how for some one can go back, and find the history and authenticity of the history??. Today it%u2019s a mosque yesterday was a temple day before could have been a mosque or a Buddhist temple???. Therefore STRIKING POINT is essential, and was successfully done at the time of INDEPENDENCE OF INDAI, by the people with knowledge, foresight and value based politicians. What all happened in ayodhya has gone endless, and created hatred in two communities. This proposed exhibition will not yield good result, except added hatred. I DO NOT ADVOCATE ALL DOINGS OF AURANGZEB
Coming to JAZIYA the tax, every nation has same practice, in the form of SALES TAX, INCOME TAX, ENTERTAINMENT TAX, and all DIRECT and INDIRECT TAXES. At the era of Aurangzeb MUSLIMS were paying ZAKATH and non Muslims JAZIYA.
Author of this article is praising WOMEN WITH OPEN FACE, WATCH TV, FILMS
MODESTY IS personal choice, its good to be house lady than a Fashion Model Does any religion advocates a lady and a gentleman to act as wife and husband, once they are not, even on screen ???. SOCIENTAL EVILS ARE ROOT CAUSE OF FILMS. Should I prolong saying that how our Indian females are giving off their clothes oflate, is this not the gift of WATCHING TV, and FILMS???.
Its really amazing to note how a self claimed student of Indian history can talk rubbish without knowing the facts. I would request him to have a look at a book titled "temple desturction in india: myths and reality". simply bashing leftist/marxist historian doesnt make something true. moreover, it is in vogue these days to bash at everything Muslim and Aurangzeb has always been the TOAST of right wingers.
RE:RE:Get your facts right Mr. Francois Gautier
by mohak chaudhary on Feb 17, 2007 10:48 AM Permalink
mr. mairan mairan it seems tht ur one of the nicker wallas,go and spread ur hatred somewhere else..bye the way who says hindus r peaceful-when u r not at peace with ppl within ur own society(dalits,sc's,st's,caste system) then how can u be at peace with others.hindus were peaceful coz they were for the last 1000 yrs under the stick of foreign rulers.if hindus get even the slightest chance(when the ratio is in their favour)they do not hesitate o commit even the henious of crimes as is evident from 1984 anti sikh riots(don't call it congress sikh riots we all know) and 2002 gujrat riots..say wht???
RE:RE:RE:RE:Get your facts right Mr. Francois Gautier
by Irfan Khan on Feb 17, 2007 11:36 AM Permalink
Hindus are very peaceful. In Mahabharat and in Ramayan they dont kill one human? they dont kill dalits in khairlanji or other parts in India? they dont destroy babri masjid? they dont kill mahatma gandhi?
RE:RE:RE:Get your facts right Mr. Francois Gautier
by dr neerja kamal on Feb 17, 2007 11:46 AM Permalink
Well. what use to happen in Iraq & how you have different sects in your own community & why your religion is the most insecure religion on earth ? atleast hindus learn from their mistakes & not under the so called stick. how many hindus you will find in Pakistan & if so how many are in the powerful position this might be able to tell you who is inherently peaceful & who is not. by the way dalits are no more dalits & muslims are no less powerful than any other its all a political agenda
RE:RE:RE:Get your facts right Mr. Francois Gautier
by Shivaram Shastry on Feb 17, 2007 11:38 AM Permalink
The killing of innocents is evil...be it Muslims in Gujarat(2002) or Sikhs in punjab (1984) or of buddhists (11 century AD north India) or hindus (in pakistan and bangladesh)
We have to understand that despots are despots regardless of religion
1)Hinduism cannot lay claim to be the best religion unless it addresses the equality of Dalits, OBCs, etc
2) Islam too cannot lay claim to be the best religion as muslims cannot live peacefully with any other religion (be it hinduism in India/Pakistan/ Bangladesh or judaism in israel or ethnic chinese in Ulghir province of china or with christians in US/UK/Russia
3) If spreading equality was the only motive of islam than how is that the muslim hordes laid waste to Takshashila and nalanda which were populated by buddhists... buddhism treats everyone equally unlike Hinduism
Why did muslims occupy the temple mound in Jerusalem and build the Al-Aqsa mosque there?
Why did muslims occupy Constantinople and convert churchs into mosques???
Why do muslims discriminate between shia/sunni??
Why are ahmadias not considered as muslims in Pakistan???
Why does the baburnama boast that thousands of temples were desecrated and mosques were built upon it??
I can quote similar examples for all religions
The blunt truth is that all religions are great... it is the radicals, dictators and despots who use religion for their selfish ends
So instead of hurling abuses at each other let us strive to reform ourselves irrespective of our religion
RE:RE:Get your facts right Mr. Francois Gautier
by Abrar Asrar on Feb 17, 2007 12:15 PM Permalink
Hi Brother. You seem to be a student of comparative religion. It is good to see people in today's world keeping so much interest in religions. But being your well wisher, I will advice you one thing. When you learn about other religions, don't read it negatively. OUR AIM SHOULD BE TO GET THE TRUTH. If you are damn sure that you are going right then I would like to request you to visit www.IRF.net and post your query where your every query will be answered properly. YOU VISIT THIS SITE ONLY IF YOU WANT TO GET THE TRUTH. Otherwise if you think that what you are thinking is absolutely right then no need to visit anywhere. Take care brother. May Allah Ta'ala guide you a right path.
Old History Rewriten by rediff to the young India IT Savvy people to waste there time and fight with each other for stupid things which is all frame by politician and recall for ther vote bank.
Now indian r recognize all over the world not for relegion but for there IT development , sport and scientific research.
RE:Come on friend
by on Feb 17, 2007 10:38 AM Permalink
"May the Spirit of Dara Shikoh come back to India and bring back Islam to a more tolerant human face", by stating this the narrator means to convey that the today's muslims in India are untolerent.Donot close your eyes from the tragedies of Gujrat, if a group of Hindus perform anti social activity they are referred as "MOB" if the same is done by a muslim he is a terroist. WHY we muslims have to proof everytime that we are the integral part of India.In today's world one look forward to have harmony and peace not that extracting darker side of past and exhibiting it and trying to get reasons to have a conflict.The True face of a peaceful India is by dispute resolving not by dispute building
The author should go to Banaras Hindu University Museum and read the Firman (the author incorrectly calls it Farhan) from Aurengzeb. These Farmans strictly ask prople not to destroy the hindu religious places. I do not want to defend Aurengzeb, but I guess he was not the monster he has been made. Whatever happened during his reign was more political than religious in nature. The author pokes his nose in Kashmir and lies about the migration forced by the government. Hindus from Kashmir have made money, got sympathy, nomination to various professional colleges, but hundred thousand muslims have been killed by both millitants, Indian army and paramilitary forces. He should comment on the fake killings of innocent Kashmiri muslims, just because the forces want to have more stars. If Kashmir muslim would be communal, how come hundreds of thousands of Indian Hindu laborers and beggers are making thier fortunes. Sunni or Shia Islam do not believ in annihilation of other religions; both believe in co-existence. How many more lies from this author who just wants to create friction between different communities in India. He better go abck to France and lecture them about how brutal French were to North Africans. Does he have the guts to do that? One more note. The place is called Chrari-Sharief (it is not Sharari-Sharief), that was burnt.
RE:Truth About Aurengzeb
by Bikram Banerjee on Feb 17, 2007 10:37 AM Permalink
Stop covering the truth of Islamic fundamentalism in the period of Aurengzeb. Don't be sudo-secular. You are just trying to hide the truth intentionally.
Its sad that people don't properly research Islam and spread views about the so-called, "different interpretations of Islam". A similar attempt has been made by the author. Sufism is a part of Islam, its not different from Sunni Islam. There have been great Sufis among the Sunni muslims, Imam Ghazali, Khwaja Mohiuddin Chisti, Hazrat Nizammudin Aulia e.t.c., for example. Sufism is about meditation , prayer, introspection, a fundamental part of every religion, its not a different interpretation of Islam. Its not that one interpretation of Islam is tolerant and another is not, Islam itself is tolerant, any interpretation that contradicts this fundamental feature is wrong. I would suggest to every thinking Indian, to try and learn about the spirit of Islam honestly instead of listening to canards, lies and suppositions.
RE:sufi and sunni
by Fighter on Feb 17, 2007 09:18 AM Permalink
If Islam is so tolerant, then why Islam took millions of innocent lives in world. Why Guru Tegategbahur was beheaded. Why Bhai Matidas' was sawn alive.Saw was applied to his head and complete body. Why Bhai Dyal Das's hands and feet were tied firmly and he was thrown into a cauldron of boiling water. Bhai Sati Das, who was the younger brother of Mati Das, was ordered to be torn into pieces. Why Chhatrapati Shabhaji faces brutal death which can not be imagined by humanity.?
RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by narmi deys on Feb 17, 2007 09:32 AM Permalink
Do not bring your RSS agenda in here. Whatever your saying is not from your mouth. It's RSS mouth. Leave that RSS organization. YOu will be better off in your life. Whatever hate you have is because your orginazation RSS/VHP/Shivsena poisoning your minds. May God save from those organizations. Even I can ask u the same question, why Bhudhist were prosecuted by so many hindu kings. why were u prosecute dalits and till this date u prosecuting them, why ur RSS/VHP etc organization killed so many muslims in Gujurat, mumbai, etc, why did u hindus killed Australian chirstian staines (by Dara singh). So there is no end to these questions. I can also bring infinite number of questions. Nobody gains anything from these. Learned to live in peace without hatred towards any community.
RE:RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by Sarat Nori on Feb 17, 2007 10:22 AM Permalink
Mr Whatever, Understand some things which you might not have known. RSS/VHP/ShivSena are the only organisations who brought the truth about India and her history. If you go back to history, right from the Mughals, hinduism faced so many troubles. As you said, Gujarath, Mumbai etc, were sparked by muslims. Imagine in any muslim country, same incident which sparked Gujarath, had been happened, it would even more disastrous than what you say so called Gujarath. Without any argument, any body can say this. As you said,Dara singh, those Australians instead of doing social service, luring those people, and forcibly converting. Remember, No hindu, or for that matter, in hinduism, nobody, does harm intentionally, All hindus are peace loving. But,incidents like this, can enrage, anybody. Hope you understood.
RE:RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by Bikram Banerjee on Feb 17, 2007 10:42 AM Permalink
But truth is that Islam is not religion of peace it is religion of violence and it is against humanism. Accept the truth about Islam don't divert from the real point.
RE:RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by dr neerja kamal on Feb 17, 2007 11:09 AM Permalink
Thats what everybody is trying to say,to live in peace. dont quote isolated incidences of hindus . accept what majority of islamist think & do to their own people & others & learn from that. that might bring some peace. provided you really want peace.
RE:sufi and sunni
by V H on Feb 17, 2007 09:02 AM Permalink
If what you say is true then why can't you follow this tradition instead of involving in savagery and terrorism all around the world?
RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by narmi deys on Feb 17, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
Mr.VH why don't u follow same thing. why r u guys from RSS/VHP Shivsena are creating so many problems in India killing people all over the india. Why can't u stop that. Look at the image Gujurat in the foreign world. People still see Gujaratis as brutal people just bcoz few hate mongers who are responsible those riots
RE:RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by Cyber hinwa on Feb 17, 2007 09:16 AM Permalink
READ THE REAL QURAN FROM THE POINT OF AN EX-MUSLIM .......... YESSS THERE ARE MILLIONS WHO ARE EX-MUSLIMS .
DOWNLOAD THE BOOK BY FOLLOWING THE LINKS AS BELOW :
RE:RE:RE:sufi and sunni
by Subramanian P on Feb 17, 2007 11:14 AM Permalink
hello narmi In today's scenario, Just bcoz RSS/VHP/Shivsena are all there, hindus are protected and able to breath relief. Otherwise, muslims wud have disintegrated this country into pieces, as they did Pakistan.
RE:The real Aurangazeb
by SUBRAMANIAN RAMAKRISHNAN on Feb 17, 2007 09:11 AM Permalink
A spirited and erudite defense indeed, of Aurangzeb. However, why don't you mention Dara at all. Or Aurangzeb's imprisonment of his own father, Shah Jahan? Pray, by which Islamic canon is a man, who is guilty of fratricide and imprisoning his own father, still considered pious? You deliberate silence on these questions, Janab Syed, tells me that your rejoinder to Francois is the age old phenomenon of the "pot calling the kettle black"!
RE:The real Aurangazeb
by Fighter on Feb 17, 2007 09:26 AM Permalink
Mr Zia syed Can you reply these.???
Why Bhai Matidas' was sawn alive.Saw was applied to his head and complete body by order of Aurangjeb. Why Bhai Dyal Das's hands and feet were tied firmly and he was thrown into a cauldron of boiling water by order of Aurangjeb. Bhai Sati Das, who was the younger brother of Mati Das, was ordered to be torn into pieces by order of Aurangjeb. Why Chhatrapati Shabhaji faces brutal death which can not be imagined by humanity.?
RE:The real Aurangazeb
by Fighter on Feb 17, 2007 09:20 AM Permalink
You are talking about Marxist scholars. Who distorted Indian history to suit their Ideology.
