Where the hell is the author of this article.now do we want a damned westerner to raise a topic on INDIAN history and disappear,come on fellow indians of RISING INDIA,let us learan from our past ,let us not fight or spill blood over these matters ,least the ones raised by a mindless historian.Remember that is the only way they will try ,if not succeed ,to divide india,well i mean rising INDIA.
RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by seek the truth on Mar 04, 2007 11:15 PM Permalink
if you believe you are right then visit : clikinfo.blogspot.com and see truth for yourself before you call other people names
RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 03:50 PM Permalink
Islam by definition can't live in peace with any religion or any kind of pluralistic form of government. It's idea of an ideal state is a totalitarian & theocratic one, and it's the duty of every Muslim to make it so, and Jihad is the prescribed methodology. It's quite baffling why this little fact escapes otherwise intelligent humans. That is exactly what Aurangzeb was doing, which is why "good & pious" Muslims find it impossible to condemn him.
RE:RE:RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 07:41 PM Permalink
Most people that say go read this or go read that haven't actually read it themselves. Do yourself a favour and read it for yourself.
RE:RE:RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
I learn from reading the Koran and the Hadith not preachers, the more I read the more intolerant it seems. After all, that is what Islam claims, read it for yourself. You place more faith in your local maulvi, thats fine.
RE:RE:RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 07:42 PM Permalink
OK the same applies to you folks. First clean your own community and religion. Make it tolerant. Do not state that non Islam lovers would perish. Of course if are are not tolerant do not expect others to show you tolerance.
RE:RE:RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 07:46 PM Permalink
Creaming on some one's name does not change the tuth. Please come to the real world and accept the tuth. I agree Mr Singh's view that there are Good Muslim's but again Islam teaches that no one should live if he is not one like Islam. That is completely foolish teaching. this needs to be erased and replaced with reformed tolerance. Do you guys have courage? I guess not, today you talk so big in support, tomorrow you would join hands to eliminate the one not like you.
RE:Where is FRANCOIS?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 09:03 AM Permalink
This view would be accepted Only if there is cent percent cooperation from Indian Muslims as well. We are divided for many generations. It would take many generations of sacrifice from Muslims to prove to Hindus that they are loyal and do not have any bad motives. But see what happens when India wins cricket. Or Vice versa. Such small incidents shows how much divided we are.
if and all he created all these (falsly alleged) then i dont understand from where these so many hindus are still roaming here and there in india. they must have got extinct till now. in fact there is not truth in the whole article. it has been writeen out of hatred and conspiracy rather than based on truth.
Don't know your ethnic background. But if your ancestors lived in India then your ancestoral tree would still exist. Just go to your ancestral village and ask some hindus were to consult and they will you your forefathers names etc. It's easily traceable in India. Then come back and tell.
Regarding hindus still roaming despite forcefull conversions. Dear Kashmir didn't have a smart hindu leader around 400 years back and the result is 95% of population became muslims.
Have you heard of sikh gurus? well read little bit of them.
The sikh history of become military fighters is only about 400 years old so more reliable than your islamic history.
Have U read Maratha history? Surelty you have heard about Shivaji the MAratha - UR Madrasa still can't understand him. Aurangzeb met his match in him. Just read Aurangzeb's last 20 years and you will understand the story.
Akbar as a King succeeded because he became friendly with most Hindu Rajput Kings. Aurangzeb let that policy go and therefore he is the last Mughal Emperor of any worth for Muslims.
RE:height of lies...
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 01:28 AM Permalink
You are dammn stupid. Many Hindus are still roaming here and ther in India because many Muslims are roaming in Pak.
If you try to hide what happened in past then refuse the existance of Aurangzeb. He was a know mass murder regardless. And you can not refuse this truth.
The dividsion of Pak got all these hindus in India. I am stillunable to digest, how come so many Muslims are left over India compared to very few Hindus in Pak and they are also forced to either convert to Muslim or their kids are forcefully married to Muslims and are converted then.
RE:RE:height of lies...
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 07:18 AM Permalink
Islam by definition can't live in peace with any religion or any kind of pluralistic form of government. It's idea of an ideal state is a totalitarian & theocratic one, and it's the duty of every Muslim to make it so, and Jihad is the prescribed methodology. It's quite baffling why this little fact escapes otherwise intelligent humans. That is exactly what Aurangzeb was doing, which is why "good & pious" Muslims find it impossible to condemn him.
RE:RE:height of lies...
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:53 AM Permalink
The British didn't divide India the Muslims did! Learn to take responsibility for your own actions.
RE:height of lies...
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:04 PM Permalink
Sanathana Dharma/Hinduism was not wiped out because of help from time to time by Gurus and Yogis - the Saptarishi, Raghavendra Swami, Sant Tukaram etc. The farmaans Aurangzeb issued to destroy temples and kill/convert Hindus by force can be seen by one and all in the museums Gautier mentioned - no manipulation happened here.
RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Golden on Mar 02, 2007 11:23 PM Permalink
you are looser and big mistaker. islam never loses and now islam will chase. till now it was only a reactionary but now it will chase and all those inhuman who oppose islam just because they will not be enjoy and crush the poor and weak people will perish.
RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 02, 2007 11:55 PM Permalink
Mr Golden,
Neither you are honest not there is any truth in your comments. Islam if really is helper of weeker then why so much bloodshed all around the world. Tell those fanatcics to bring peace first, stablize their own lives first and then think about helping any one....
Forget you are a fake person with fake name, fake personality and a total fake baseless belief.
RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Shameer on Mar 03, 2007 06:41 PM Permalink
Ask GW Bush to bring peace...coz he and Necon-Zeonist imperial US brought evil to this world.....U Islam haters (RSS...VHP...NRI US Slaves)
spreading hate . Good Job. Perfect partner for Bush...Kudos...
RE:RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 07:26 PM Permalink
Don't blame America, get over this victim hood syndrome. How come Islam terrorists are killing from the Phillip lines to the UK. First you attack then another community/country retaliates then you cry foul. Grow up, take responsibility for your actions.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 07:26 PM Permalink
Ok then what are you doing? Saving Islam. Why don't you ask your fellow brothers that what were they doing all around the world (exploding bombs in embassy, entering parliaments, hijacking planes etc) before idiot GW Bush decidde to separate from your fellow partners?
Be practical and follow the facts. Do not cry over spilled milk. When you play the music face the audiences. here is the time to face the audiences.
Since the music has been ongoing for several generation ofcourse the audiences would be at a wide level.
Good luck Mr. Shameer. Do not bring any irrelevant political party in your act of inhumanity.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 07:30 PM Permalink
Your religion has divided Shia and Sunni so even stupid Bush who supported Islam terrorism for so long and is now facing the rule "What goes around comes around" can not do anything to bring peace.
basically you guys can never live in peace amoung yourselves. Forget what would you do when you face other cultures and religion. basically you guys would eliminate because that is what Me. Golden said that all those who disagree with Islam would perish. Perish by how? By murder. So what is the basis of Islam? Of course "Kill" if no one becomes one lke you.
RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:37 AM Permalink
The biggest victims of Islam are Muslims themselves. I wager if they read the Koran and Hadith for themselves the intelligent and compassionate would not hesitate a second to disown Islam, a religion filled with hate and started by a pedophile.
Please go to http://www.faithfreedom.org and refute the above allegations and claim your 50000 USD prize. Yes that is 25 lakhs, you can not only make money but also prove Mr. Ali Sina wrong.
RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Shameer on Mar 03, 2007 06:53 PM Permalink
Come on Yaar...wht is this...only 50000...make it some millions...
Yes the more people read quran the more they fall in love with that...
countless times these allegations were answered...repeating woudnt make it any better.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 07:29 PM Permalink
How come the prize is unclaimed ? None of his allegations have been refuted. You can read the debates online and make up your own mind. Secondly Islam has killed many Sinas over the centuries not refuted them, unfortunately that is all Islam preaches, kill those that disagree.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Golu Gayani on Mar 03, 2007 07:38 PM Permalink
O, so are these each terrorist paid over this amount? I do not think so. I can bet that they may not be paid more then some laks of Pal currency and a Kings life promised for their family in Pak.
I guess this amount is way high to win and prove to the entire world that Islam is really cool. Even if it a little amount see the gain out of it.
Go ahead, challange and win. At least then you would be able to prove your point Mr. Shameer.
RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:54 AM Permalink
Typical Muslim when faced with facts they react with violence, how long does the world have to suffer these fools.
RE:RE:Tolerant Islam? Are you joking?
by Perv Sharma on Mar 03, 2007 05:34 AM Permalink
Golden
Islamic peace is brought by killing the one who doesn't agree to your point of view. A religion based on intolerance can't last for long as proved in history again and again. Only religions which are tolerant can last.
It was great for all of us to know some truths about history.unfortunately discussion always ends on religion.Though aurangzeb committed many atrocities during his rule but he is still considered as devout muslim because he did it in the name of islam,whether killing his own brotheror prisoning his own father.
RE:aurangzeb
by Golden on Mar 02, 2007 11:25 PM Permalink
if and all he created all these (falsly alleged) then i dont understand from where these so many hindus are still roaming here and there in india. they must have got extinct till now. in fact there is not truth in the whole article. it has been writeen out of hatred and conspiracy rather than based on truth.
Unfortunately for Aurangzeb Shivaji was born in his time. The military genius of shivaji saw Aurangzeb spend his almost last 15 to 20 years trying to chase the marathas because they kept the hindu flag flying and Aurangzeb kept chasing them round and round until he realised that it was time for Mecca (death) and he's dream unfulfilled of a complete conversion. because he had never thought that he would get so much resisitance from Rajputs/marathas/sikhs.
RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:35 PM Permalink
Sanathana Dharma/Hinduism was not wiped out because of help from time to time by Gurus and Yogis - the Saptarishi, Raghavendra Swami, Sant Tukaram etc. The farmaans Aurangzeb issued to destroy temples and kill/convert Hindus by force can be seen by one and all in the museums Gautier mentioned - no manipulation happened here
RE:aurangzeb
by Name on Mar 02, 2007 06:39 PM Permalink
Killing is the thing apart from Islam. He did wrong if he is killing. Why are u relating the religion.. Don't recognice a religion by looking its follower.
Muslims are best among the worst followers. Well said by some western philosopher as discussed on this page earlier.
RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:56 AM Permalink
I'm sure there are some decent human beings that follow this evil and intolerant religion. If these decent human beings actually read the Koran and the Hadith, they wouldn't hesitate a second to renounce this religion.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Perv Sharma on Mar 06, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
Unfortunately we can't take U back in time to your great grandfather but you can atleast read something from the times of your great grandfather since you believe in Quran which was written many many years before Aurangzeb.
Regarding conversions - in present times you need to go to Pakistan and find out about so called islamic ahmediyas.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:41 AM Permalink
Guru Tegh Bahadur. Banda Bahadur, his case is even more tragic, the muslims ripped his 4 year old sons heart out and stuffed it into his mouth when he refused. Such is their cruelty.
Which fantasy world are you living in you moron ? Islam is a vile and disgusting cult. Goto http://www.faithfreedom.org and refute the above charges and make your 50000 dollars.
Since Muhammad has already set an example for you by marrying a 6 year old and consummating that marriage when she was 9, later he even married his own daughter-in-law. We don't have to look at the West for such depravity. There must already be lots of Muslims in India that must be following their own leaders example.
You want to refute these charges go to http://www.faithfreedom.org and claim your 50000 USD if you can do so.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:32 PM Permalink
your forefathers were, unfortunately they're dead now. If you try to convert someone to Islam by force today, you'll get it back good (Eent ka javaab, patthar sey milega)
RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by In on Mar 02, 2007 06:57 PM Permalink
No no, its because of the cultural heritage from the like u people only.. and because people are all materialistic.. they don't study the religion and start practicing in their own terms.. And when they are cought (or just blamed) entire community is targetted.
If you only see the religion its far beyound ur thoughts and dreams... Its just pure in its original form... and Allah had taken the care of this book till the end of the world.. And this will not change; Unlike others who lost their original books by doing modifications..
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 12:16 PM Permalink
But the Islam prescribes death for non-believers, I can't see how you can claim any kind of peaceful intent in Islam towards non-muslims.
From the Koran : 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:18 PM Permalink
what cultural heritage - Indian or Arab? India's books were lost because of being conquered (Muslims destroyed the Indian books) - remember the books of Europe (including those of Greek and Roman times) survive even today
U want motivation for Gujarat - when more than 3 lac Hindus have been pushed out of Kashmir , breaking of Budha idols in Afghan and the last straw was the burning of the train.
The biggest problem with you islamic followers is you just shut your eyes when you see so much good from the Hindu culture. History is full of them. But most recent, 1971 war when more than one lac islamic soldiers of Pak were freed with dignity. Yeah ! unlike the way your christian brothers of pakistan treated the Iraqi pows and the Pakis treated the pows from India in Kargil. One day you will definitely get it back.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:29 PM Permalink
Shameer, both Christianity (European History is replete with instances of Christian atrocities) and Islam are fundamentalist. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism etc. are tolerant
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Chankya Pandit on Mar 05, 2007 03:06 PM Permalink
Some muslim tried to report 'abuse' . here is the message again:
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 12:34 PM |
Shameer,
In all honesty:
1. The Koran does contain verses that contain conciliatory messages I don't deny that but it also contains suras that call for the killing of kafirs "non-believers". I've read what you've quoted 10 times now and can't the context which justifies killing. The first line simply says it all, to rephrase "if they disagree ", the following sentences indicate death.
2. It was Muhammad who was indulging in banditry (looting their caravans) which is why the citizens of Makkah were chasing him.
3. So all you have demonstrated from Muhammads own life is that. First the muslims attack the non-muslims, when they retaliate, then the muslims cry foul. That is the context, you have only proved my point not refuted it.
4. Further you highlight some more barbaric prescriptions from Mr. God (which let me remind you is an Abrahamic concept alien to Hinduism). In case you don't know the old testament is also a Muslim holy book. Secondly if the new testament prescribes even more barbarous punishment, what does that have to do with non Christian Indians.
5. Regarding context, let me make a final observation, Islam divides the world into Dar-ul-Harb (India) and Dar-ul-Islam (e.g., Saudi Arabia), it is the duty of every good Muslim to bring Dar-ul-Harb into the fold of Dar-ul-Islam by any means possible. Now given the context please reread the Suras.
There are even more severe allegations against Islam you may want to check out http://www.faithfreedom.org.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 01:58 AM Permalink
What about the innocent people that were killed in the UK by Muslims, who were from well off Muslim families and the UK has an stellar record in Muslim appeasement.
RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 02:01 AM Permalink
Neither because they don't preach the same type of intolerance and hatred that is in the Koran.
From the Koran : 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
No which decent human being will want to follow this vile and intolerant religion that preaches hatred so openly.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:aurangzeb
by Shameer on Mar 03, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
WAH....U R NOT THE FIRST one who had seen that verse from Quran.....Mr. Secular...Don't spread hatred ....Quoting Quran out of context and spreading lies. I can qoute for the matter of fact any holy book and spread lies. A real hate monger...
now let me answer ur doubt .. The Quranic concept is very clear Qur-an 5:32 says ''..whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind..' Again Quran says "..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151) Ther shouldnt be any doubt on that. now to the verse u quoted. Read the complete verse... "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa' 4:89-91)
Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one any where? These verses were revealed by Allah to Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta'ala Alaihi Wa Salam) at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the "terrorist". These verses are not a permission for "terrorism" but they are a warning against the "terrorists." But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.
It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.
Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)
those were the days of military rule. subjects and citizens wished to have the strongest and the wisest as their ruler. everybody had got a right to prove himself to be the best ruler. and only war between the different candidates could judge, who would be the best. no matter what relationship the candidates had between themselves.
We know that a state, a kingdom or a government is for basically giving peace and justice in a society. Peace can be hampered for a while to bring a larger justice....like a situation of war. and again little injustice can be justified to bring and keep the larger peace around.....like a situation of curfew in any area.
and the expansion of an empire is also not unjust. Mughal emperors did it like Ashoka and Alexander-the Greats conquered lands and made empires. AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices of Brahmins on the lower castes.... and also towards the social/spiritual/physical evil acts/rituals that were prevalent in the temples of those days. he had got his own personality and methodology........ open to critism from all. but making this issue a tool of condeming all muslim kings and religion of Islam is a sheer foolishness.... and even dangerous for society as a whole.
when i say.....
AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices.........
i mean.... it's natural to be INTOLERANT towards larger INJUSTICES..... in fact it's desired..... ok??????
and so.... jehad is needed. JIHAD means organised effort/struggle to remove/kill the badness from SELF....SYSTYEM....SURROUNDING and if needed those MEN who comes on the way of that effort.... ok?????? GANDHI/BOSE/BHAGAT/TERESA/BABA-AMTE/MILITARY GENERALS.... all did or are doing JIHAD their own way... ok???????
We forget that AurangZeb took Zakat from Muslims as Jizya from NonMuslims. No Muslim king went to Kerala/Srilanka.... but think how Islam reached there... and in fact muslims are 30% in population. Same is the case for Indonesia and Malayshya.... where 40 crore muslims live.
Every body will say ....... this is the case of ONLY TRUTH PREVAILS..... whether Rome... india.... persia..... russia... africa etc.
and the EVIL had to go ..... like Ravanism... Chengism.. Temoorism.... Hitlerism... Stalinism... Britishism... Saddamism etc. In future also the EVIL will have to go.... Bush/CIA... Israel/JewishPlot.... Musharraf/ISI Modism/Advanism or any evil... all will go.
Only the good names of Taoism/Confucionism/Rama/Krishna /Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad/Hazrat Nizamuddin/Chishti Ajmeri/ BahadurShahZafar / Bose /Gandhi will remain and PREVAIL.
RE:Remember the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Secular Indian on Mar 02, 2007 07:03 PM Permalink
More crap by this crackpot, Aurangzeb was a Hindu reformist ? He had to kill Hindus in order to save them ? You have a serious mental problem.
RE:Remember the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by raghav bhatt on Mar 03, 2007 04:06 PM Permalink
Dear Friend Mohmad, You mean to say that Aurangzeb, with a great idea of saving the poor killed only Brahmins?& showed kindness to the other suppressed hindus? Forst you understand the basics & tell others. regarding the Jehad I think it is your own meaning not the meaning of Khoran or the Mslim Terrorists all over the world.
RE:Remember the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:40 PM Permalink
Aurangzeb was not the saviour of Dalits in India - it is a known fact that he did not help uplift Dalits who converted to Islam (Arzals etc.)
RE:truth all should accept
by In on Mar 02, 2007 07:11 PM Permalink
Read it and see your self.. the depth, the correctness, the accurary, the statistics, the medicines, the technology, the era, history, geography, Laws, and many more in the exact Arabic grammar - and that came out through a people to litterally didn't knew Arabic.
Arabic was as difficult to Mohammad (sas) and specking and writing chinese is as difficult to u when u start after 40 years of age.
--If this is not enought read yourself..
Ed Advertise aata hai na TV pe Melody khao khud jaan jao.
Regarding Veda you can ask the question to Pandit Veda Prakash on his site (search on net).
Few scanned pages I have in sanskrit but exactly I am also not sure what is its source; but sender claimed it is from Puran.
The name Muhammad came first, and it existed even b4 the existence of earth and Adam. All prophets had told abt Mohammad in their religious book. And if you read Vedas u will find this name there too. Do u want the scanned copies of the pages? Now u people started making and inventing new words w.r.t Islam in order to tease Muslims.
What's ur Dharma - U people can even abbriviate Allah to make another meaning, thats not difficult for 4 i know that... But see only Muslims don't interfare.. The Vishnu Bhagat was the part of the High religious studies done by Pandit Ved Prakash.
You beople says abt GOD. And if someone look frm other end it appear DOG. It depends upon the person mentality and his intension is. And definitely for a drunker both will be same.
Its not your fault, that the way u are brought up. Even its not late some people told u read correct and authentic w.r.t. any thing u read..
RE:Mohammad
by Pradeep Kumar on Mar 02, 2007 04:56 PM Permalink
One question Mohammad , Who came first ? Nabi Isa or Nabi Mohammad ?
Perhaps answer to this question will lead you to your beliefs and understandings.
I would best recommend everyone to read the origin about the man and how civilizations were formed . Then how Human being started to form beleifs and existence of the supernatural and their understanding of these supernaturals...
Perhaps therein lies our answers to regious dischord !
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:56 PM Permalink
Dear In, From intuitive dreams I can tell you that God has given each region a different religion according to their intellectual capabilities. While the Arabs got only Islam because of their Barbarism (they're still Barbaric aren't they?), India got Sanathana Dharma (Hinduism) & Meditation. The West (America, Europe, Australia etc.) have also reached great intellectual levels & are therefore accepting Meditation, Yoga, Past life regressions, telepathy, chakra balancing, karma clearing etc., because they find it useful & effective. E-mail me on dr_ramanand@rediffmail.com to learn these things, if interested
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by A Pandit on Mar 02, 2007 05:32 PM Permalink
a little correct here. they were messenger to human kind not God. yes they were from God. also prophet Isa was for his time only and for his nation only. he clearly mentions that "dont you go to gentiles, for i have come only for the lost ships of israel". but the last prophet of Islam (mohammad) was for the rest of the time till judgment day and for the entire humanity, not only for a small tribe or nation. if you read your own books then you will know more. i read out of my interest with the seeking of Lords pleasure. you must read it to.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:59 PM Permalink
Mohammad, Dajjal and Qayamat are only accepted by Muslims (and possibly Jews and Christians)
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:57 PM Permalink
From intuitive dreams I can tell you that God has given each region a different religion according to their intellectual capabilities. While the Arabs got only Islam because of their Barbarism (they're still Barbaric aren't they?), India got Sanathana Dharma (Hinduism) & Meditation. The West (America, Europe, Australia etc.) have also reached great intellectual levels & are therefore accepting Meditation, Yoga, Past life regressions, telepathy, chakra balancing, karma clearing etc., because they find it useful & effective. E-mail me on dr_ramanand@rediffmail.com to learn these things, if interested
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by A Pandit on Mar 02, 2007 05:28 PM Permalink
first of all Muslims dont accept the Genesis of Bible as you have misunderstood it. i have read the islamic faith and its books. they dont just extend any story from Bible. muslims and christians have entirely different faiths. in fact bible is still evoluting. there are so many versions have already came and lot more yet to come. so both the faiths are entirely different. regarding adams age and the age of earth. why you want to know this? what will you do by knowing this? will it serve any purspose to you and will take you to paradise? religion is not here to give you the coomplete ideas about this world and earth. it is here to guide you on the right path and give you a successful life. which you will attain by following it with careful eyes. as there are alot of evil people who are trying to misguide the common man by giving fake ideas as well creating their own books. but if you are truthful then you will get the guidance from your Lord and He will keep you on the right path. but you must have a pious heart to accept and apply the truth even if it is against your earlier belief.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 05:06 PM Permalink
India's books were lost because of being conquered (Muslims destroyed the Indian books) - remember the books of Europe (including those of Greek and Roman times) survive even today
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by In on Mar 02, 2007 06:59 PM Permalink
Other books are changed and are therefore lost. Therefore I referred to christian who actually had read the original Injeel (book frm god).
Only Quran is preserved in Original till now. And nothing is found wrong there till now. If you actually see the authentic one.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 02:21 AM Permalink
Koran is not only wrong but it contradicts itself in so many places that it leads credence to the claim that Muhammad made it up as he went along. Just a short example , please explain the Satanic Verses from the Koran, don't they encourage idolatry and polytheism. He added that verse when he had to appease the Qur'ash. Later when his followers admonished Muhammad for compromising Islam he claimed he was misled by Satan. Now that begs the question how do we know that the rest of the Koran is not dictated by Satan. History would certainly attest to that claim.
This is the 21st century please get your heads out of your backsides. The world has moved on from such primitive thinking.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 05:03 PM Permalink
the story of Adam is just a fabricated one, besides the world was not created in 7 days, like the religions of West Asia believe
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by In on Mar 02, 2007 07:04 PM Permalink
Both were messenger and both told whatever GOD told them to tell people...
Therefore Mohammad despite of not-knowing Injeel (Bible); brought down Quran very much similar to Injeel, (i dont know exactly but heard somewhere it to be 95% similar). And the differences may be because of people changing Injeel.
Moreover Allah said to stop going deep into the previous revealed books and this is the final book brought down as Quran. And GOD took his own responsibilities to preserve it till Qayamat, for good people/ muslims to get benefited
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 05:09 PM Permalink
Dear In, From intuitive dreams I can tell you that God has given each region a different religion according to their intellectual capabilities. While the Arabs got only Islam because of their Barbarism (they're still Barbaric aren't they?), India got Sanathana Dharma (Hinduism) & Meditation. The West (America, Europe, Australia etc.) have also reached great intellectual levels & are therefore accepting Meditation, Yoga, Past life regressions, telepathy, chakra balancing, karma clearing etc., because they find it useful & effective. E-mail me on dr_ramanand@rediffmail.com to learn these things, if interested
You meen to say Mohammed is the first name(word)which is Ohm as per Hindu beleif. If you are correct Mohammed will the ParaBrahma as per Hindu beleif from which whole universe was originated.
First time I am hearing about Vishnu Bhagat which is not a religious book of significance for Hindus.No Hindus in this world is following that book as a religious one. You will find millions of such books called Sruthis and Smrithies. Sruthi is some thing you heard from some where which is not authentic. Smrithy is some thing written from the memory of a person which is also not authentic.
The Vedas, Puranas, Ramayana and Bhagavata(Bhagavat Gita as part of Bhagavata) are the books of religious significance for Hindus.
I beleive you will admit Quran and Hadiths are authentic. Most people participated are quoting from Quran and Hadiths.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 02:10 AM Permalink
It wasn't helpful it's just the same crap repeated all over again. Just because you keep repeating things over and over again doesn't make them facts.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by In on Mar 02, 2007 05:01 PM Permalink
Head line is somewhat this:
Chicago: PROPHET MOHAMMED (PBUH) IN HINDUISM Pundit Vedaprakash Upadhyay, a Hindu professor, in his stunning book claims that the description of the "Avatar" found in the holy books of the Hindu religion, matches the Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH).
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 03:10 PM Permalink
From everything I've read now and I've tried locating references to find this elusive Pandit PVU. It's only the Muslim websites especially the ones sympathetic to Dr. Zakir Naiks claims that refer to this man. There is doubt that he even existed. It could all be a well organized fraud/fake not that the book contains anything even remotely close to believable but that is a different matter.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 05:22 PM Permalink
please understand that to date i am yet to see the proof that this great ved prakash upadhyaya ever existed. Even if he existed, let me tell you that no book called, "kalkiavatar aur muhammed sahib" has been ever written. If it has been written, give me the publisher's name or show me any web-site, it is listed in
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:50 PM Permalink
if such a book was published, give us the name and Publisher and where it is available
RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:49 PM Permalink
Om is also the sound the Universe makes according to scientists who've been in space
RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 04:47 PM Permalink
when Adam himself was just a concoction, how can we believe that the name Mohammed existed before that? Muslims are brought up to be robbers/thieves, terrorists etc., while Hindus are brought up to be good citizens
RE:Mohammad
by A Pandit on Mar 02, 2007 05:22 PM Permalink
i believe in the Muhammad being mentioned in all the holy scriptures. but i suspect if he is mentioned by all the prophets. even if islam is correct you need to do a lot of studies. please do that before you preach. you have a lot of misconception as well. by the way who told you that muhammad was the first name which was existed even before adam and eve? dont dream and put something from some fake scholers. if you can produce some proof from your holy book Quran and the saying of your prophet of Islam (Mohammad0 then just produce it otherwise stop misguiding to every one. already my hindu brothers are misguided here. non of them know anything about thier own religion and you are trying to give islam with your own (and of course fake) theory. stop it at once...
RE:RE:Mohammad
by biju nair on Mar 02, 2007 05:33 PM Permalink
Mr.In, You and Mr. pandit Ved Prakash? are trying to prove Muhammed is Kalki Avtar I assume.
For Your information Kali Yug started 5000 years back. Total span of Kali Yuga is 432000 years. Kalki Avtar is supposed to come at the end of Kali Yuga which is 427000 years away. So there is no question of Muhammed being the Kalki Avtar. Description of Kali Yuga says lot of false Gods and false representatives of Gods will come and misguide people.
The below pasted URL will give you an idea about Kali Yuga.
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by NAFASAT KHAN on Mar 02, 2007 06:16 PM Permalink
Is not this an absurd discussion.Please,Please,please............................limit the role of religion to moral ethics n code of conduct.Beyond that,already religion,particularly Islam n Christianity had made the mankind bloodbathed.The crusades/wars with persia/syria/byzantine!hell,make it any difference I am muslim or christian or hindu or baudh or this or that?If I am not a person sensitive to all,if for me the value of live of a person corresponds to his religious faith,I carry the medivel values like Aurangzeb!friends, try to become a good humanbeing,don't waste time on discussing such matters.Aurangzeb was a very cruel ruler,intolerant not only to hidus,but also to Shia muslims(rulers of deccan kingdoms-bijapur,ahmadnagar,golkundaetc.Bury him in History.Look forward.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 02:29 AM Permalink
But if its not discussed and determined what is it that led Aurangzeb to do what he did (all evidence seems to points to his inspiration from Islam), how can it stopped in the future.
"Good" Muslims are still defending what he did in the name of Islam, its pathetic. This leads one to assume that the threat is still very much for real. And where the Muslims will be in power and majority there many among the "Good" muslims who will do it again. Look at Pakistan and Bangladesh for a modern day example of what Aurangzeb did.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by biju nair on Mar 02, 2007 06:34 PM Permalink
Mr.Nafasat Khan,
You are right. All these discussions are point less. Let all religions and their beleivers respect other religions and their followers. Those religions who follows this rule will survive. Those who don't obey this rule will perish no matter how mightier they may be.
For Hindus you survived till now despite being the oldest in Earth and it is because you have some thing spiritual which others lack. Many new religions came and vanished. Lot of them will come in the future and will vanish also. many of the current ones will also vanish.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by raghav bhatt on Mar 03, 2007 04:31 PM Permalink
Dear friend, It is fine that you have taken some part & try to corelate with some meaning of the name. Ok I will accept. Pl. accept the rest of the parts of Vedas & Puranas & follow them. Is it possible for you? So, for your convinience dont try to interprate something.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Name on Mar 05, 2007 12:28 PM Permalink
I am not interpreting its been done by your own Pandits. I just broughgt the info. Its upto u if u dont want to learn.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 05:20 PM Permalink
please understand that to date i am yet to see the proof that this great ved prakash upadhyaya ever existed. Even if he existed, let me tell you that no book called, "kalkiavatar aur muhammed sahib" has been ever written. If it has been written, give me the publisher's name or show me any web-site, it is listed in
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by biju nair on Mar 03, 2007 04:39 AM Permalink
Dear Secular Indian,
It is futile to argue with these Guys. They don't have any strong religious foundation. Mohammed him self was knowing that. That is why he was repeating again and again it is from Allah. Allah wanted Muslims to protect their week religion. Which they does by Jihad.
Strong men doesn't need protection. Only week men and cowards need protection.
Muslims know they are already defeated spiritually and ideologically hence the physical aggression and holy wars to cover it up.
Let us see how long they can protect their weekest religion with media propoganda and violence.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Secular Indian on Mar 03, 2007 05:26 AM Permalink
Good point, it makes perfect sense, otherwise there wont be a need to resort to violence.
RE:Mohammad
by raghav bhatt on Mar 03, 2007 04:23 PM Permalink
Dear Friend, Pl.forward the pages which contain the name of mohamad .i want to see. Pl.dont send the pages of Bhavishya puran( as one can under stand after reading this,that this is written may be in the 19 th cenury-or at least updated).Vedas means out of 4 vedas Rigveda, yajurveda, Samaveda or Atharvanaveda, pl. show details about him
RE:RE:Mohammad
by sanjay Bhadury on Mar 03, 2007 08:10 PM Permalink
oh my god! are you guys fighting over gods( god is going to repent he created men). My view is all faiths are good as long as it do not harm others, specially good one( a catch).
RE:RE:RE:Mohammad
by Chankya Pandit on Mar 05, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
Hey Bhaduri! dont press the 'abuse' button. face the discussion. here is secular indian's message again:
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 03:14 PM | Hide message I don't really think anyone here is fighting over "GODS", the problem is trying to establish authenticity for a claim made by Dr. Zakir Naik that Muhammad's birth was predicted in the Bhavishya Purana and that this was written about in book authored by a certain Pandit PVU. That is all!
