Thanks to our great (Mahatama) Indian politicians the day is not far (may be 50 years) when India will be called Islamic Republic of India (No offense to my Indian muslim bros).
When I used to argue with my late father, he used to tell me that nothing can save India from disaster. If I raise my voice, I'll be killed and forgotten in couple of days. The only ray of hope is if some military commander revolts and take in the rein, at least temporarily to bring back the order and lock this secular politicans forever.
What so damn important to have lunch in Lahore and dinner in Kabul. Do we have to kiss their ass just so that they will not attack us out of mercy? Is this the reason.
That somehow we will show them through our blind love that there's more to life then jehadism or 'kafir killing'.
PM and his Masters should know that rest of India does not follow their appeasement policy.
Giving up on Siachen will show Pakistanis that we are weak, that or resolve crumbles under pressure. Once Pakis get control of Kashmir, then they will run down the hills to attack us. We will be surrounded by their attacks from the north and west.
Let the PM go and have lunch in Lahore. Seems like a nice place for mullahs to hangout, maybe he will like their brotherly love. But please spare us from this outrage, we don't want to go to Lahore and we don't like to have dinner in Kabul of all places.
I have a few suggestions to make that we must GET from Pakistan before we GIVE an inch:
1. How about 'Handing over Dawood Ibrahim'! If we were not 'give and give rashtra' but the 'take and take' USA, they would bomb first and talk later.
2. How about Demolishing terrorist camps in POK. This is where we should use our Satellites pictures to get pakistan - show them the POK terrorist training camps (that Mushy calls 'Strategic assets of Pakistan') and tell them that till we are able to get pictures of demolished camps from our Satellites we will not pull one Jawan from Siachen. This is a better approach than running to USA and crying with them Satellite images in hand. After they demolish the camps any withdrawal from Siachen is not going to be unilateral, but conditional on NO Terror training camp ever coming up anywhere on Pakistan soil. The day we see any terror training in Pakistan is going to be the day we go back to Siachen - has to be an iron clad clause in Siachen. This way those Pakis have something to lose by training terrrorists.
3. How about returning our soliders captured during 1971 wars that are still languishing in Pakistan prisons. Remember because of the 'We have to make peace with Pakistan' mentality we gave away 93000 Pakistan soldiers without getting one in return in 1971.
4. Because Pakistan is a histroy sheeter, it can not be trusted. There fore using some diplomacy to get its big brothers like US to stake their reputations as well. Get an assurance that for India's kindness ' of getting to vacate' Siachen ( even after Pakisatn has agreed to our conditions) we want a commitment from Nations giving aid / arms to Pakis, that any future trangression into Siachen or any support to terrorism in any form - should necesarily stop the aid to pakistan from USA / Japan and other nations. This serves three important purposes - A. Greater leverage, or pressure over, pakistan to honor its commitments. B. We have greater bargaining power over those countries like US / Japan in future. C. More importantly, when it is time to hit back at Pak position in Siachen (Kargil2) or on terror camps in POK, these other countries will not be able to say NO to India.
Now if we dont have the spine to ask the above from the Pakis, then lets atleast stock up on KY Jelly. It will make things less painful when the Pakis come calling through the rear door.
RE:Dont Sell out to the Pakis before applying KY Jelly
by on Feb 10, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
You mean, just weapon is not enough for India to counter Pakistan. Here you are justifying Pakistan's rear actions. So, you are telling Pakistan is stronger because of those rear view activities. So, the no-first-use policy is not hold good any more!!!
Let us conduct a meeting w/ World body & tell India's position. We are not a soft body any more. We suffered a lot by being soft body. Also, we take out the no-first use policy. What do you think?
SORRY NO PULL OUT FROM Siachen, India has a startegic advantage there and must keep it. As for pakis there will be NO TRUST EVER . Siachen is a good place to keep an eye over paki -china crossing point as well, so sorry pakis
It is sad that PM is so conciliatory towards 'democartic' dictator 'Musharraf' without getting anything in return - except the usual 'love talk'. We Indian' never learnt from our mistakes centuries ago - just as we refuse to learn from our mistakes of Kargil or earlier wars with Pakistan. All we need to become happy is some catchy airy fairy jingle like 'Hindi Chini bhai bhai' that we will keep singing as we are herded to the slaughterhouse.
Are we receiving, or even asking for, any tangible evidence of sincerity from pakistan before we vacate Siachen? I am sorry kind words like 'we shall live happily ever after' make good fairy tales - just not in the context of Pakistan's intentions!
So how about getting them to move things on the ground - instead of just their tongues.
1. How about 'Handing over Dawood Ibrahim'for starter! If we were not 'give and give rashtra' but the 'take and take' USA, they would bomb first and talk later.
2. How about Demolishing terrorist camps in POK. This is where we should use our Satellites pictures to get pakistan - show them the POK terrorist training camps (that Mushy calls 'Strategic assets of Pakistan') and tell them that till we are able to get pictures of demolished camps from our Satellites we will not pull one Jawan from Siachen. This is a better approach than running to USA and crying with them Satellite images in hand. After they demolish the camps any withdrawal from Siachen is not going to be unilateral, but conditional on NO Terror training camp ever coming up anywhere on Pakistan soil. The day we see any terror training in Pakistan is going to be the day we go back to Siachen - has to be an iron clad clause in Siachen. This way those Pakis have something to lose by training terrrorists.
3. How about returning our soliders captured during 1971 wars that are still languishing in Pakistan prisons. Remember because of the 'We have to make peace with Pakistan' mentality we gave away 93000 Pakistan soldiers without getting one in return in 1971.
4. Because Pakistan is a histroy sheeter, it can not be trusted. There fore using some diplomacy to get its big brothers like US to stake their reputations as well. Get an assurance that for India's kindn gesture 'of getting to vacate' Siachen ( even after Pakisatn has agreed to our conditions) we want a commitment from Nations giving aid / arms to Pakis, that any future trangression into Siachen or any support to terrorism in any form - should necesarily stop the aid to pakistan from USA / Japan and other nations. This serves three important purposes - A. Greater leverage, or pressure over, pakistan to honor its commitments. B. We have greater bargaining power over those countries like US / Japan in future. C. More importantly, when it is time to hit back at Pakistan in Siachen (Kargil2) or elsewhere including on terror camps in POK, these other countries will not be able to say NO to India (irrespective of the weapons or targets we choose to engage).
There is a great urgency in the Indian babu'cracy to come up with something soothing for Pakistan in Siachen as a precursor to lasting peace. The unilateral hurry with which we are rushing into it (remember, fools rushin where the Angel fear to tread!) with all sweet TALKS an no reciprocal Action on ground is a recipe for disaster that India Army jawans would pay for with lives and limbs.
Netas and babus can keep TALKING and clear out Siachen for Pakis to repeat Kargil. Then Jawans (who are not TALKING now) will be sacrificing their lives by the hundreds if not thousands to regain it - While patriotic TALKERS will tune on to thier TV sets cheering. When Kargill 2 is over, the TALKERs will be back in action - Netas, babus, patrakar and aam junta - all talking about giving petrol stations and compensation to the widows of Kargil2. Eight years later, these same widows will go with begging bowls in hand pleading for the gas stations that never materialised. And you know what, neither the Netas / babus will TALK to them, or the aam junta or patrakar will talk about them. Do you ever hear any political party or news media speak for the forgotten widows of Kargil? Or the still missing Prisoner of War from 1971 war that are in Pakistani prisons (Will we freed 93000 of pakistani prisoners of war!)!!! All that coward talkers can do is talk - Pakistanis know that.
After Pakistani diplomacy clears out Indian jawans from Siachen without shedding a drop of Pakistani blood, Pakistani Army would soon teach our netas and babus a valuable crash course on History. Dr. Manmohand Singh and other netas who romantically dream about 'Breakfast in Amritsar, Lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul' would be made to painfully recall that that the Ghouris and Ghaznavis had breakfast in Kabul, Lunch in Lahore and dinner in Amritsar as they plundered India year after year. Did we Indian learn then? No, on the rare occassions that we stopped or captured the Afghan plunderes, we invariably pardoned them. What did they do? They came back the next year - raping, looting, murdering with total abandon in a macabre annual ritual of Indian spinelessness and stupidiy. 'Breakfast in Amritasr, lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul' was a dream then. It is once again a dream today. Given the way we are genuflecting before the pakis on the negotiating table, history will repeat itself.
RE:All this for lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul!
by R Singh on Feb 10, 2007 01:38 AM Permalink
Your comments " Dr. Manmohand Singh and other netas who romantically dream about 'Breakfast in Amritsar, Lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul' would be made to painfully recall that that the Ghouris and Ghaznavis had breakfast in Kabul, Lunch in Lahore and dinner in Amritsar as they plundered India year after year."
RE:RE:All this for lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul!
by Setu Madhavan on Feb 10, 2007 02:01 AM Permalink
Thank your, R Singh. I agree with your viewpoint as well.
RE:All this for lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul!
by G S on Feb 10, 2007 12:15 AM Permalink
Setu, Appreciate and agree with your sentiments. But we have to start somewhere if we want Pakistan to show better behaviuor. At the sametime that start should not be from Siachin, as that is the place where India has advantage. India should never agree for vacating Siachin, let us first see progress in other areas.
RE:All this for lunch in Lahore and Dinner in Kabul!
by R Singh on Feb 10, 2007 02:15 AM Permalink
You seem like a good writer on current events. Why don't you setup your own site or a blog. I'll chip in for few side comments now and then.
Congress is a party of Muslims .. Irrespective of India or Pakistan ... They ruled india for 50 years now ..but from Nehru's Menifesto to Rahul Ghandi's Menifesto .. One thing is comman ..Ghar,bijali,pani,food ...How many ur generations want to win elections using the same words ..why don't u fix them permanently Congress is going to do whatever pakistan want - to get muslim votes in india and to remain in power .. Dirty people ... Congress is able to do this since most of the educated or uneducated hindu's don't go for vote on polling days ..so they feel Muslim's are the ones who go for vote ..Let keep them happy...if all of like to see the chnage next time go to the poll station ..instead cusrsing here later
Top height are very important for attacking the enemy. Enemy should not be considered as just pakistan alone. Now-a-days, we know that US can threat any country at anytime. So we should not agree for demilitarisation at a important places.
Pakistan and Musarraf .. Man known to ditch everyone .. Not Indians only ,,, 80%Pakistani's Amercans, Bristish and everyone ...and he thinks he has credibilty to put proposals to trust him ..Who can trust you ... Does you wife trust you ...You are made for trust ..Thinks where are you today and how are you here today ..then you will get the answer .. Land belongs to India ..weather we leave it or sit on it ..who the are you give any kind of comments
