Some one wrote below that Hindus constitute 99% of India-That's absolute non sense .
Who says brahmins who consitute the majority of BJP walaahs are 99% in India ?
Let alone the Sikhs,have you forgotten the muslims,tamils,naxalite movement,the north east states,kashmiris,SCs,STs,Communists etc who dont even like to be associated with Brahmanical BJP .
In reality the upper brahmin leadership of BJP constitutes a minority community and if an unbiased survey is carried out they may constitute a minority even less in number than many of the so called minorities in India .
It is this minority brahmanical elite which is taking whole of the Hindu community and as a matter of fact whole of India for a ride .We include Punjab CM Badal in this so called elite,who is now indulging in arrest and torture of Sikh youth just to please BJP.
During election time they try to find emotive issues to show 99% of India is with them ,which is not true . Last time it was Ram Mandir issue and now it is Ram Setu .
RE:Elitist brahmins dont constitute 99% of India
by sumit verma on Jan 01, 2008 11:56 PM Permalink
bhajee tusi congress de supporter ho ki? politicans sare iko jahe hunde ne ,kyon apna dimaag khraab kari jande ho ehna murkhan piche. baki tusi ik point chakeya c ki hindu punjabi nu apni maa-boli nahi likhde. kise hor da pata nahi meri family punjab ch minimum pichle 400 saal to reh rahi hai te sadi maa-boli punjabi hi hai te rahegi. even at the time of my interviews in armed forces i used to tell my mother tongue as punjabi during the times of militancy. so ik choti jahi gujarish , apne dil vichon sari galatfemiyan kadd deyo. we all are punjabis & indians te aapan pehlan apne punjab nu te fer apne desh nu sab to agge le jake khara karna hai taki mur kise punjabi nu koi behka na sake. duniyaan ch loki bathere par punjabiyan di shaan vakhri
Through terrorism we suffered very much till now. And, we need not further that annoy our brotherhood. Let there be many religious belivers in India. All religions guiding towards one path - humanity. We keep respect to all regiligions and live peacefully and happily. Wish you all a Happy & prosperous New year.
RE:Dear Brothers we remember Guru Nanak Dev
by H Singh on Jan 01, 2008 04:07 PM Permalink
Ramakrishna Panicker you are right.
Please for God's sake dont commit those very same mistakes for which Punjab had to suffer for so many years.
As it is,nothing has been done in Sirsa dera issue,1984 anti Sikh pogroms,the burning of thousands of unidentified bodies of Sikh youth by Punjab police etc .
These are over and above the other greviences listed by Kah S.
Hi all ,i'm a panjabi , a hindoo & an indian I request all indians that please dont spread false information amongst us,it's the traitars & enemies of our country who will get benefit of this division amongst us hind00-sikh brothers Please dont play into hands of enemies of our country I have lived all my life in Punjab & it was always a sikh that has been my best friend & still same is the case Even now i am in Canada but i'm unable to find a sikh who is against hindus in general & punjabis in particular So once again please keep ur rumours to urself,we punjabis(hindus & sikhs) have already suffered a lot & we dont want to suffer it again
RE:Please spare us
by ARYAN PUNJABI on Jan 01, 2008 12:38 PM Permalink
Hi Sudhir, Happy new year to you.
Your message seems to be written by you on my behalf, thanks.
But for your kind information, unfortunately there were and are some antinational (or anti-punjab ) elements in Sikh community.I was equally in Punjab in 80s and 90s.What was that all ?? Who were those people killing both Hindus and Sikhs, asking for Khalistan, killers of Prime Minister, their masterminds etc etc ???
RE:Please spare us
by ARYAN PUNJABI on Jan 01, 2008 12:38 PM Permalink
Hi Sudhir, Happy new year to you.
Your message seems to be written by you on my behalf, thanks.
But for your kind information, unfortunately there were and are some antinational (or anti-punjab ) elements in Sikh community.I was equally in Punjab in 80s and 90s.What was that all ?? Who were those people killing both Hindus and Sikhs, asking for Khalistan, killers of Prime Minister, their masterminds etc etc ???
RE:RE:Please spare us
by sumit verma on Jan 01, 2008 12:49 PM Permalink
If i give u dreams that u will have ur own country along with money then what will u do? I hope u have understood what i am saying? Please also look who created jarnail singh bhindrawala to counter akalis and then killed him. if u lived in punjab then u must be aware that everyone suffered during that time! so please dont start it again and there are anti-national elements in hindus also-for this we will never say that all hindus are bad.
RE:Please spare us
by sumit verma on Jan 01, 2008 11:28 PM Permalink
I believe u did not understand that or u did not know that own country dreams were shown by pakistan to sikhs who according to me are the simplest persons,they just do their work & never induldge in anything false till not provoked. You can see even in this message board that there are very few comments by them. u urself is saying that bhinda.... was created by Indira gandhi and so how come he met his fate in the face of death by his own creator. Similarly we can say that Indira Gandhi met her fate for doing this all & much more other things than this. And remember there are still controversies about murderer of Indira gandhi though i do not believe on them. Politics is not that simple my friend. Politicians thrive on our fight. Please remove this hatred from your heart & behave like a true indian. Religion is the biggest divider for us but at the same time religion is biggest force that support us psychologically during our trying times.
RE:RE:Please spare us
by sumit verma on Jan 01, 2008 11:30 PM Permalink
continued So please follow ur respective religions & do not interfere with other persons religions and faiths.
RE:Please spare us
by H Singh on Jan 02, 2008 05:14 AM Permalink
They were the Black Cats(Police cats) of the govt and IB used to infiltrate and decredit the genuinine movement. The very first killing of bus passengers near Tanda was done by these people with orders direct from central agencies,your IB and RAW. I remember myself reading repeated condemnations by the federation and other organisations when any incident of shooting used to take place.But since the cats had infiltrated the ranks of militants it was very easy for them to present violent acts as if carried out by the militants. It is now an open secret. The situation in Punjab at that time was not as simple as many people believe. There was much more to it than what met the eye. If you are still ignorant then you are not in Punjab. Unfortunately,Badal(BJP) has started the same trend in Punjab again starting with arrest and torture of Sikh youth . Whereas the murderer and rapist anti Sikh Sirsa saadh is moving around in z plus security which is given to so called VIPs. Had he been some common man he would have either been sentenced to life imprisonment or death for rape and murder. The case of 1984 anti Sikh pogroms and that of burning of thousands of Sikh youths as unidentified bodies(innocents who were killed in place of cats who are still alive ) by Punjab police are still pending. Who is discriminating against whom ? Sikhs have never forgiven any anti Sikh act though time in getting justice may be delayed. It is in Sikh History right from the time of Mughals to
RE:RE:Please spare us
by H Singh on Jan 02, 2008 05:16 AM Permalink
It is in Sikh History right from the time of Mughals to Congress and now Badal(BJP)-Sirsa Saadh. If punishing anti Sikh people and those who mess with and try to interfere in the Sikh religion is militancy then so be it.
RE:Please spare us
by Yerra Burra on Jan 01, 2008 02:38 PM Permalink
Well, have you been to the August 15, 2007 celebration in Dundas sq, Toronto? You would have certainly noticed the rag tag bunch of Khalistani jokers with the ripped Indian flag. It may be a rag tag bunch of jokers but they were certainly there.
RE:RE:Please spare us
by sumit verma on Jan 01, 2008 11:35 PM Permalink
dost u urself is saying that it may be a rag tag bunch. I believe that u have urself answered ur question. there are black sheeps in every community and a comunity is known by majority people not by minority. u would be wondering why i am supporting sikhs , this is due to the reason mentioned by sudhir dixit above that i am also a punjabi who is just not able to forget past ghosts and do not want to revisit those conditions.
1. Burning of sacred Guru granth sahib swaroops 2. Killing of 13 sikhs on Vaishakhi 3. Unconditional support to Nirankari by th govt. like they do now for Dera Sacha Sauda 4. Statements by Balram Jakhad... Wiping out 2 crores Sikhs for the rest of India 5. Threating statements by Indira... that Sikhs in other states should think of themselves(incase the ones in Punjab do agree to her terms). 6. Calling Sikhs as Hindus but when they demand or fight for their rights they are called Sikhs and not Hindu militants 7. Sending sikh hijackers to Jail whereas giving upper posts in governmnet to hindus hijacking plane for Indira Gandhi. 8. Brandising Sikhs as Criminals by Sardar Patel after Independence even though Sikhs were the ones who gave 93% sacrifices in Indian freedom struggle. 9. Unconstitutional division of the Punjab river to the non-riparian states under the Reorganisation Act. 10.Potraying all Sikhs as terrorists in indian television media and newspapers
All these had made Sikhs to feel like a second class citizen at that time.
RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by yaaro on Jan 01, 2008 12:17 PM Permalink
Congress is behind many of these.(BJP also wud have done something similar). There is nothing like hinduism. Thinking people shud call themselves as adherents to INDIAN RELIGIONS (which wud include all religions except ISLAM who may not want it to be called indian religions). As for massacres and riots I as a TAMIL can understand the pain of losing kith and kin. CONGRESS and RAJIV did to us in TAMIL EELAM. There should be ENQUIRY into IPKF atrocities in EELAM
RE:RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by ARYAN PUNJABI on Jan 01, 2008 02:32 PM Permalink
Yaaro,Hinduism is a way of life of people of South Asia/Indian sub-continent not an organised religion.All other organised religions directly or indirectly preach hatered and divide.Hinduism has respected, welcomed, hosted and absorbed all other religions of India and world. As of Tamil Eelam, I do not think if you know much about it.LTTE was funded and trained by then PM Indira Gandhi.LTTE was the only orgn whose cadres were imparted arms training in indian defence estb(College of Combat,Mahwoo).It was also to partially teach a lesson/avenge to Sri Lanka for providing refueling facility to Pak Air Force during 1971 operations. Disaster came when a Tamilian RAW officer of DIG rank,based at Madras responsible for RAW/LTTE joint operations in SL was trapped through a female CIA agent and all secrets went in the hands of CIA who had a plan to station US army near Indian waters.That is when India wanted a cover-up and Prabh.. was airlifted to Delhi to meet Rajiv and temporarily cease the operations and surrender weapons as a policy matter.Prabh.. did not agree.India had no option but to send IPKF overnight to thwart US plans.We agree and sympathize with you for atrocities which is a common happening in military operations more especially in a strange land and strange enemy.
RE:RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by yaaro on Jan 01, 2008 12:19 PM Permalink
Its true that SIKHS fought for whole india. Indian nationalism will be weaker if we neglect their contributions
RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by H Singh on Jan 01, 2008 03:54 PM Permalink
Kah S Well done ! You have given the gist of the problem which is 100% true . Those who are still arguing against these points are those who in those days called themselves Punjabis but wrote Hindi as their mother tongue during various surveys .This same psyche led to division of Punjabi suba into 3 states. It seems even after so much suffering by all sections of Punjabis during 1980/90' they have not learnt their lesson. I will once again say attack on the Sikh religion whether it is by Congress or Badal(BJP)either directly or indirectly(trying to assimilate ) will not be tolerated at any cost .
As regards the bomb blast at Ludhiana .Only a fool will believe that ISI(Muslims of West Punjab)will use Sikh youth to kill muslims of East Punjab(Remember the bomb blast was done on Eid day).
Punjab police is using the Ludhiana blast to arrest only Sikh youth.This all being is being done the get genuine Sikh political leaders who are bringing about awareness in the Sikh masses against Sirsa saad,RSS and others.Just yesterday a Sikh political leader from Patiala was arrested ,not by Punjab police but by police from the center .
So this shows the central agencies are directly involved in all this mess .
Why isnt the IB not investigating the role of Hindutva forces in the bomb blasts at Ludhiana and in mosques in Hyderabad and Ajmer ?
Cant anyone understand what is actually going on ?
There should be international investigation into the above incidences just like
RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by on Jan 01, 2008 08:41 PM Permalink
Hello, IMPARTIAL - Well u don't seem to be so impartial. It's true that many Hindu punjabis do report Hindi as their mother tongue, even though they live in Punjab and speak Punjabi. It may be because they associate %u2018Punjabi%u2019 with Sikhism and %u2018Hindi%u2019 with Hinduism. As juvenile this attitude may be, it seems to be true. Same as Pakistani Punjabis also write %u2018Urdu%u2019 as their mother tongue even if they speak Punjabi at home. Rather silly, but a mother tongue unites people on the basis of culture and geography, but some choose to associate it with religion instead.
Anyhow, Punjab was divided into three pieces in 1966, and this was to give Punjab a %u2018Punjabi-speaking%u2019majority, but since many Punjabi-speaking Hindu brothers chose to declare Hindi as their mother tongue, this created a discrepancy and the people who were non-Sikhs skewed the %u2018Punjab-speaking population%u2019 curve and therefore Punjab was carved and reduced further. It%u2019s possible that Punjab may still have been divided, but it would not have been as small geographically as it is today. The partition took place on grounds of religion and not culture, language, etc.
The Chandigarh issue also stems from this. After the 1947 partition, Chandigarh was to be the capital of the new Punjab, and Rajiv Gandhi even signed an agreement with Harchand Singh Longowal in 1985 that Chandigarh was to be transferred to Punjab, but even the Prime Minister%u2019s word is o
RE:RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by on Jan 01, 2008 08:43 PM Permalink
, but even the Prime Minister%u2019s word is of no value, because Chandigarh is still a union territory.
Now, I agree that IB is not local police, but as an intelligence agency, they certainly should and must investigate. If they can investigate and declare that Bhindranwale was a threat to unity of India, then why not investigate the elements that create tension that leads the Sikh community to feel alienated and detached from the rest of the Indian society. The Sirsa matter is still not resolved, even though this guy has openly insulted the Sikh faith and Gurus. He%u2019s a threat to India%u2019s unity also, but I don%u2019t see a Bluestar-like operation to bring him under control.
Bhindranwale has just become a scapegoat for all who can not solve India%u2019s issues but rather look to put blame elsewhere, whether it%u2019s the Central govt doing this or the Punjab govt or public at large%u2026 WHY SO? Because it%u2019s the easy way out%u2026 pick someone and label him a terrorist and all of a sudden we have someone to blame. We all jump on this bandwagon, because it gives us an escape mechanism. The grievances of Punjab still exist today as they did before Bhindranwala.
RE:RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by H Singh on Jan 01, 2008 03:56 PM Permalink
There should be international investigation into the above incidences just like pakistanis are demanding an international investigation into Benazir's assasination.
RE:Cause of Sikh militancy
by ARYAN PUNJABI on Jan 01, 2008 01:14 PM Permalink
Hi Kah S, Happy new year to you.
None of 10 of points you have raised bears authenticity.It is all just hear and say, rumours, misinformation, misinterpretation.
Nationalism,sacrifices,loyality,sincerity of Sikhs/Punjabis have never ever come under question in the history of India.
All the communities living in pre and post independent India have made a positive contribution to their capacity and expertise.
Conflict starts when a particular community tries to hijack the credit.
It were Sikhs who were sympathetic and reasoned with misguided (by ISI)Sikhs in Punjab from late 70s onward.So naturally and automatically they pushed themselves to second berth.
It were those Sikhs responsible for killing PM of nation followed by distributing sweets, celebrations,hurting the emotions and feelings of fellow citizens, responsible for riots in Delhi and elsewhere.
Sikhism as a religion and Great Sikh Gurus have not preached so.All Guru Sahiban were Hindus protecting Hinduism not asking Hindus to leave Punjab or face death !!! They did not collaborate with muslim invaders but fought against them sacrificing generations. They did not preach to kill fellow Indians for the waters of Yamuna,they did not ask for Punjabi Suba.Their India was from Nanakana Sahib to Mecca, from Anandpur Sahib to Nanded and so on.
Let we small people not disgrace our Great Gurus who were distinct Godly people and Saint Soldiers on this planet. Sat Sri Akal.
