There is a very good chance that US would honour the agreement to an extent. 123 is there just because US wants to sell some Reactors, and India needs those. And US's own laws was the hindrance. 123 is only an agreement which will guide us through installation of about half a dozen or so Power Plants in our country. No doubt it is a step towards our co-operation with the US. And we can always step back. Even after signing, if we do set up not even a single Reactor, what would be the significance of the Deal. And these hula bo would amount to a big zero.
We are all talking about the Violation of the agreement. Why should we not talk about its compliance by both the parties? There are provisions in the Agreement to take care of the Hypothetical and the Ifs & the Buts and in all probability none of these would arise in the entire life time of the agreement.
Having said so, I must say that the other party is very unreliable one and we have to make provisions and Safe Pits to fall back upon.
And who would make the US to comply, if it wishes not to honour any or all of the provisions of 123? And they are the only ones who can always say what is there in the agreement. And no one else. But there is no way India can do any such thing in the entire life of the agreement. columns.
RE:Compliance by US
by Chaman Chambu on Aug 17, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
abe chaman..who will pay for all that crap that we establish..kya kuch bhi likh dene ka? dimag ka kabhi to istemaal kar..once we put $50bn odd into these things, we are virtually tied to their ideology..that's one concern a lot of eminent scientists have
RE:Compliance by US
by Lalatendu Deo on Aug 17, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
Chaman Chambu, Who is that eminent scientist you are talking about? You must be sure about his name. You will apply your mind, only when you have to face a power cut of 12 hours in the midst of summer. It is the case in most of MP and UP now, and would be there in rest of the country very soon, if we are not producing energy.
If it is $ 50 billion, then let it be. If we can pay to get that for our comfort, there is nothing wrong in it.
My Fellow Countrymen... It is time we cut to the chase. There is no clause in the 123 Agreement that PROHIBITS India from testing a Nuke.
Here is the loop hole. There are provisions for cessation and termination of the agreement. The US is saying that IF India were to test a Nuke, that will be a reason for them to consider the provision for cessation/termination.
Two important points to consider,
1. Does anyone think that India will do a Nuke test after a successful test in 1998 ? My response is, we don't have to. We have already proved our Nuclear Capability, both to our Allies and our enemies. No point in saying the same thing again.
2. The agreement does not specify what would happen should India conduct a new nuclear weapons test. However, its states that should the nuclear fuel supply from the USA be cut for any reason - possibly because of an Indian test - Washington would help find third countries to supply alternative nuclear fuel. The agreement will initially remain in force for 40 years, but can be renewed for subsequent ten-year periods. The agreement also provides for the termination of nuclear cooperation between India and the USA with one-year notice period.
What is the problem here ? We need energy and in the last 60 years, our indigenious Energy industry and government policies have failed MISERABALY to provide that. Thats a fact and lets accept it.
There are certain concessions that both sides are making. Thats what an AGREEMENT means
Firstly, we did not perhaps tested the device just to show that we are capable (Dual Purpose). And if we test again, it would be purely for the scientific requirement of it. And perhaps there might not be any further requirement of it. It is not only US but also other countries including France, Britain, China, and Russia have already felt there is no need further. They have not closed the option. And India would also would not do that.
RE:Cut to the Chase...
by on Aug 19, 2007 08:39 PM Permalink
At first, if anyone does a serious search it internet, he should doubt the claim that indian thermo-nuclear and sub-kilo-ton devices are a successful. If u would mind to research, u would understand that russia/USA/china/france/britan has done more than 50 test while USA did about 1000s to make reliable simulation model. Now they gave to G5 and pushed for a CTBT. So I dont beleive we have all those suble equations with us. With last test we got something to work with. We will need to verify them with next test. And u will why we need a thermo !!! See, we have so many enemies, trust me, we need the right to do them (tests). No country had lived respectfully with just economy. See Japan the economic DOG of USA. Pakistan a dog of both USA/china. Why is china able to flex muscle with USA. Because they have MIRV/DF-31 etc which can reach USA. And from their tests USA knows it works. Same is the case for us with china. That country china is a barbarian country ruled by thugs, they wont mind a strike once they are really ready. I mean a blackmail strike. If we are equally strong military wise, only indirect black-mail will work. Be it USA or China. I am sure that USA dont want a nuclear India same as china. Their interest allign here. USA wants an India that counter china as an american DOG just as JAPAN a country that have no self-respect, unlike the germans who came out of the shakles of WWII. But it is unfortunate that we need energy or else too we are doomed. -mindgod
RE:Cut to the Chase...
by Lalatendu Deo on Aug 20, 2007 03:37 PM Permalink
My point is that there is a possibility that we might not requre any further test. And if we do, the consequence would not be catestrophic for us. It can not be worse than what it is now. As such the agreemnet does not speak of the nuclear test by India. So India will weigh the pros and cons before going for it at that time when it starts thinking about it.
But for now, saying that we will forgo the imminent electrical power needs through nuclear reactors, for a hypothetical possibility, is not done.
How will our lefties and others react if we reject the deal and the same is offered to Pakistan, Bangla Desh etc?
Many countries are desperate to get nuclear energy and technology including Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar etc. Pls pls, let us know where we stand clearly before taking any stand ,which we would regret later.
There should be limits to playing to the galary and somewhere down the line national interests have to take precedence.
Indian Communists are traitors of the highest order - instead of Moscow, they now take thier orders directly from Beijing, Karat et al's denials to the contrary nowithstanding. These two-faced Commie hypocrites have been blowing both hot and cold - first they say there will be dire consequences if UPA signs the N-Deal then goes on to say they will not pull thier support for the UPA govt in Parl, so why all the hot air - is this huge useless exercise in futility all just for show? For whose benefit? Anyone who takes these traitors seriously should go have thier brains washed out with sewer water - only lamebrained dimtwits with crap for brains will vote for these treacherous Commie cretins, who should all be dumped into the sewer where they belong.
RE:N-deal not prohibit testing?
by velraj ganesan on Aug 17, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
Dear friend... you should understand the fact that if the congress party had single majority then they would have not had discussions with any party and the deal would have over by now... And lets think of the consequences, the US nuk spokeman says india cannot do any further tests that our pm denies.. Do you still think that the communist parties are the traitors?!.. Why dont our PM simply say that he has surrendered our country to US ?!..
I feel really happy that the govt has no single majority to take any such bad decisions unanimously...
RE:N-deal not prohibit testing?
by Lalatendu Deo on Aug 20, 2007 03:23 PM Permalink
I shall like to amend your posting a bit. The US says that if India tests, that country may consider stopping fuel supply. And the decision is not Automatic. The incumbent President of US will decide as to whether it would stop the supply. So both parties are interpreting rightly. This means that there is a chance that US would continue to supply fuel even if we go ahead. Which further means that they are more interested to keep on supplying the uranium than to see that India does not test the devise again even though they wish India does not go ahead. They know very well that unless it is so, India would not go ahead and sign a non performing agreement. That, this is an admittance by US of India's Policy on the matter, as for US, if they say any thing contrary, India would not sign any agreement.
Simply, the US wishes to sell the fuel and there is a huge demand here. That is the reason why Australia jumped in and told the world that they were more than interested.
The very fact that the US is negotiating for the agreement says that we are not signing on a dotted line.
RE:The Neanderthaal occupying the Oval has to say so.
by Lalatendu Deo on Aug 17, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
Bharatvarsh will be in a tighter corner if we chose to reject this. Please tell me as to where are you staying, Chanakya? You might not be facing that Power cuts that is being a perennial problem in about 50% of India. Even today, there are about 50% of Rural India is not yet connected and the rest have only have 12 hours supply for only 50% of the days in a year.
The situation will be worse in coming days. The Nuclear Energy will only fulfil the requirement to an extent. We have a lot of thing to do.
RE:The Neanderthaal occupying the Oval has to say so.
by chanakya maurya on Aug 20, 2007 04:01 PM Permalink
Deoji, getting power cut may perhaps be a better option than getting the necks cut, or the noses cut !
As for Chanakya's abode he is supposed to be residing in every Bharatvasi's hearts.
Sofar its clear that N-tests by India and N-deal with USA both cannot go to gather. Its either-or scenario. If we conduct tests, deal is off and if we go in to deal, tests cannot be conducted.
At the end of the day US is our only sole helping country which gives us dollers and save our economy.So dont argue on n deal.Its like abusing father..... US have mercy on us thats why we survive today.
RE:US is mighty and God
by abhi on Aug 17, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
are u getting $ from US to servive > at least i am not getting . what nonsense comment have u written .
RE:US is mighty and God
by soni methi on Aug 17, 2007 04:02 PM Permalink
Yes its disgusting but true that we are leaving on US dollers and our govt is already sold to them.. lets accept this and be happy.what we get by discussing which is not any ways going to be changed for next 1000 years.
To know why Left is opposing 123 deal, one has to go beyond what Newspapers or these Political people say.US and India both acknowledge the threat of having hostile Pakistan and Strong China as Inda's neighbour.For obvious and other interests of US, It want to empower India to be able to keep check on both these countries. Nuclear power for peacefull purposes is totally shit thing. US is giving this name to resist opposition from its own people and world oppositon. China is totally aware of the situation and anybody who knows these Left parties can imaginge that China is thus bribing Left to oppose this deal so that this agreement is not signed. Left leaders are known traitors. Even if their doubts are true than what will happen if India conduct nuclear test after signing this agreement? Who will stop us to stop any test? At that time worst or worst US will withdraw their support and levey some penalties whcih will even in that case will be equal to today's situaiton, when we are facing Nuclear embargo even from our friendly countires. India only stands to win in any siutuation after signing this agreement.
RE:Left is a Traitor
by Ranjit Ahluwalia on Aug 17, 2007 04:01 PM Permalink
What stops you from believing this Sir? I had also shocked to learn the left role when China attacked us in 1962.
