The quota system atleast provides an helping hand in such situations. The Merit and Fair-ground based arguments are missing the central point. A BC student if scores even 65% marks against all odds (a lack of education in family and hence lack of any guidance from elders, the absence of atmosphere favourable to higher education in family, leg-pulling by UC bosses and colleagues) then that BC candidate is as good as or better than an UC candidate who has scored 90% with all the favourable conditions and guidance.
Think why reservation really exist. If upper-caste people stop practising casteism, there wont need for reservation. The real problem is not reservation the real real problem is the casteism and casteist mindset of many upper caste people. If politicians are evil then selfish upper caste group is a bigger evil indeed. Atleast the selfish politicians will facilitate some benefit to deserving needy backward caste candidates somewhere.
RE:Reservations The economic factorReservations The economic factor
by akhil kommadath on May 17, 2006 07:38 PM Permalink
How on earth do you judge the caste of the members in your Interview Panel ??? And which Interview panel is going to ask you your caste ? Agreed that the backward castes required some empowerment, but reservations are not the right way. The basic problem is that Indian society had been divided by castes, and instead of breaking the barriers, we are re-inforcing the age-old sins. I am an OBC and I oppose the Quotas !
RE:Reservations The economic factorReservations The economic factor
by Pulkit on May 17, 2006 07:28 PM Permalink
after this round of reservations, I am at highest point of my frustration. I will ensure that here on I will deal with, do business with, talk with, eat food only from upper cast person. I am constitutionaly seperated. I will teach my kid to understand cast as they utter first word. I dont need india, its constitution and its governance for continuing my life becuase in british time it was 'No dog and Indians are allowed' and in post Independence it is 'No dogs and Upper cast allowed'. Thank you.
The real problem is the urban UC is not able to understand the difficulties faced by BCs in rural India as well as cities. Guys there is so much hidden and subconscious bias practised by upper class colleagues and bosses you have no idea about. The protesting UC students in cities havent really seen the real picture of Indian society. They are too focused on their own future, security and have little compassion and understanding of the sufferings of BCs. True that there are going to be few culprits who will misuse quotas but at the same time there will be a genuine benefit going towards much larger portion of deserving BCs. Taunting, victimisation, back-stabbing and leg-pulling of BCs is very common. I suggest the UC guys, go to an interview in a private company where the usually all the members of interview board are from UC. Portray yourself as a BC with good marks. See if you get selected or not. Do this couple of times. The experiences and treatments you are given will change your attitude towards reservation forever and will help you understand why reservation really exists.
RE: Reservations The economic factor
by Pulkit on May 17, 2006 07:23 PM Permalink
I conduct Interviews for recruiting people very often. I have never seen cast of any person while doing interviews. Does not make sense. Please drop this 50's bull****.
RE:
by PP on May 17, 2006 07:09 PM Permalink
Accepted the point that a BC securing 65% marks against all odds is better than a UC with 90% marks with all the facilities. But then, the assumption you seem to be making is that all BCs are in rural India where there are no facilities and all UC people are in urban areas where all the facilities are available. Do you have a logic to support your argument if there is a UC who has secured 75% marks against all the odds that a BC has faced and is denied admission?
Guess, Indians should grow up. If the government wants to improve the socio-economic status of the country, the reservations should be based on the economic status of the person and not on the basis of caste. Caste is no indicator of who should be eligible for a reserved seat. Hope the politicians understand this and stop the divide and rule approach they are using.
I hope this message comes up. Or atleast the editors will see this. I dont understand why the rich 'minority' institutions do not have reservations but others should. This is totally absurd. Already hindus face aparthied and discrimination in states like Kerala where rich Christian and muslim institutions show favoritism and partiality. Politicians are blind to this. Education in public sector should be strengthened and poor should benefit instead of aiding aparthied colleges run by minorities. There are numerous institutions , commissions for minorities. Is there a single commission to look after the poverty and suicide (kerala is no. 1 where christian loan sharks push poor to suicides) of the real poor? NO. This comment will be cencored or will never get published since this has facts. Kudos to Rajiv..we need real journos like him to expose the truths.
The way reservation is implemented , it is not going to help.
Suppose A gets admission to a good institute and then gets a good job (thru quota or on his own merit) , his children will have an edge over another whose parents are illiterate - unless some greater merit is prescribed for 2nd generation ,& still greater merit for 3rd generation beneficiaries, so that by the 4th generation A's descendants are brought to the general stream. Unless this is addressed the no. of first generation beneficiaries will rapidly reduce and though crores of people may benefit the majority (the truly backward) are likely to stay backward.
Of course if backwardness is not perpetuated our politicians will become 'economically backward' - so this may not be acceptable. That is also an important consideration!!!
RE:how come..
by ram on May 15, 2006 08:30 PM Permalink
Please tell this guy we cannot practice reservation for getting published in rediff message board.he feels his articles never show up.when we say "merit",it also means equal accomplishment.now, can we say in atheletics wecan ask OBC guys to run only 75 mts whereas FC's should run 100 mts and whoever finishes first wins the race.We want every facilities to be provided for SC/ST's and OBC's economically ( this was happening for 50yrs) and if you guys want to take it easy further, go to hell.There are lot of FC's families below poverty line without a bread winner.Whats the solution for them?
Just because a handful for SC/STs have reached a middle class status - and are sending their kids to colleges - doesn;t mean the creamy layer is usurping all the engg/medical college seats ( anyway, why do you guys always want to do only engg/medicine; where is your individuality? anyway thats a separate topic of its own..).
If you go to any engg college - you will notice the 6-8 guys in the last bench wearing the most wretched clothes and not too communicative and with the bad haircuts and fidgetive, non-confident gestures are the guys who made it through the reservation quota. They are the guys from the villages, not the creamy layer. Everyon has seen them, they will just not mention them on this forum.
They are not there through your goodwill or the govts largese; they are there because the need to be there. Its not just you and your generations - with your cars and fat TV sets - that need to live the good life and perpetuate iniquity on the scale that it is done in india, and keep complaining still for a few govt jobs.
If merit is what you have bred in your castes, at least have the graciousness to show it in your arguments here.
RE:contd..
by A.B. on May 16, 2006 04:17 AM Permalink
I think we should strive for 100% reservation for SC/ST/OBC/Muslims in educational institutions and employment. All upper caste Hindus need to die of hunger for the sins committed by their anscestors. It may even be a good idea to enforce reservations in buses, railway, cimemas etc... Who the hell cares about a person's abilities, caste and religion is all that matters. Who cares if you grew up in the slums or a 'dalit' collector's bunglow. The only good upper caste hindus are dead ones.
If you think you have abilities, show them to the world. If the goras can make use of them, you will get your bread. India is a country with great potential. India will remain a country with great potential. End of the story. No point wasting yourself on a country which does not consider you one of its own. I pity the poor soldier who spills his blood for this country. But why should the country care, the poor solder was an upper caste Hindu and joined the army with his ability. If he got in through the reserved quota, it would have been sad. Patriotism is a farce. Long live Arjun Singh! Long live reservations!! Death to Merit!!!
RE:contd..
by gita on May 19, 2006 11:00 AM Permalink
let the progeny of of upper caste pay for the sins of forefathers till the equation is reversed. Thats the best way for revenge and bring about social justice.
As for the question of reservations the same people who are crying hoarse about the drop in "quality" and the waning of "merit" do not seem to pause to think that there have been "reservations" in India for thousands of years. All the positions of privilege - from educational, administrative, military, or (oohhh... ) priestly have been held by people claiming to be from "superior" castes - sanctified by the authority of religion and the religious heads, enforced by the force of kings and warriors. During all these centuries, the oppressed were not only subjected to wanton discriminatioon, atrocities, and alienation, but actively vilified as embodying all the wrong qualities, banished to separate dwellings, prevented from using common facilities etc..
Suddenly to claim that "upper castes" are suffering reverse discrimination due historical wrongs, is to totally ignore all the historical, and social, and economic deprivations the really "oppressed' have suffered. How many people do you think are writing on these forums who are from the dalit village outside your ancestral home?
To bemoan that "merit" is going to hell, and that "brain drain" will affect our competitiveness and economy, is just so much hogwash.
For all the years that the IITs have been there, there has not been any substantial research that has been path-breaking coming out of the IITs ( anyway all the guys leave for the US). At a basic level, the people laying the roads, or building the bridges ( basic infrastructure ) are from second , or maybe third rung diploma colleges. And exactly how much insight into the indian condition, political, economic or social ( since they cannot engineer any engineering marvels locally) have we had from our IITians. None. We have had recently some useless books from people like chetan bagat, incestuously extolling the IIT mileau. A self-congratulatory excercise in exhibiting some low-level vanity.
For institutions that are being praised sky-high, "temples" of education, that are not to be tampered with , by, god forbid, those hateful reservations, the IITs are just a bunch of ostentatious white elephants.
RE: Bull Shit
by SECULAR on May 21, 2006 01:27 PM Permalink
Your write-up stinks.
If IITs are doing nothing good, then why the hell you want Reservation to join the same IITs?
Reservation/Quota is the stigma to the modern Secular and democratic Society and shd be rooted out.
What kind of Social Justice you are talking abt when the son of a SC Director in a PSU, scoring 45% marks joins a top Institute, while the son of the Secretary of the said SC Director, scoring 85% marks is denied admission to the same Institute?
The fault ( as oer the SC/ST/OBC folks) is that the great grand father of the Sc Director was ill treated by the great grand father of the poor Secretary. This is Nonsense!
If the people and the Political Parties are really concerned to uplift the weaker sections, then start with setting up Model schools in each Panchayat, to impart quality education free of charge to the students of weaker sections and enable them to join Main Stream with Dignity.
The slogan that the OBCs were oppressed by the haves, was designed by the Missionaries to convert the Gullibles to Christianity with incentives/false promises during the British Rule and do not fall prey to such slogans.
