Women most certainly are Human Beings. It appears that some Persons/Faiths/Sects can carry superstition to an extreme. All sane persons should be against all prohibitions that come between God and any Man or Woman.
The temple rituals and practices are observed and respected by all devotees since they are ancient practices and keep up the sanctity of temple.A temple is a place where a group of people assemble for a religious purpose.Individual whims and fancies cannot be encouraged in the name of democracy. Social taboos could be opposed but certain norms have to be respected and observed. People like Jayamala need to spoil the traditions of our land.Such people can avoid visiting these temples. By committing such acts they bring disgrace to themselves not to the deity, who is above all. It is better than we take it as a cheap publicity and ignore unless it throws-up the corruption in holy places since Jayamala's entry into the temple cannot be without the knowledge of the temple officials or the priest.
RE:Women's entry at Sabarimala Ayyappa Temple
by Gayathri Chakravarthy on Jul 10, 2006 03:31 PM Permalink
Well said Kiran.. a job done well.
As for the likes of Babu and Srivathsan, who are into their second childhood when they are hardly out of their first, they shud clearly understand that they arent the only Hindus around.. Sacrilege ?? I need to wipe tears around my eyes and stop before I split my sides !! These guys think that women entering the temple downgrades the sancity.. SATI no more surprises me..
RE:Women's entry at Sabarimala Ayyappa Temple
by Pallavi on Jul 07, 2006 11:39 AM Permalink
We are in 21st century, thats why we are giving the best to our new generation. We are allowing them to get best education & career. In our relation of great grandpa\'s, women are not allowed to go anywhere or not allow to go in community, and most of them are not getting education and all. But now-a-days women are engineers, airhostes, fighter plain poilet, and now we are on the issue of to enter the women temple or not. God made pepople and people made traditions. Womens menopause is natural thing. Why to make issue of that?
RE:Women's entry at Sabarimala Ayyappa Temple
by Raghavan on Jul 08, 2006 01:36 AM Permalink
Mr. ganapathy, you speak of tradition.do you follow tradtion now? have you got a tuft or cropped your hair. are you in dothy and towel or wearing a pants and shirts and wris watches? Is your house cemented or plastered with mud and cow dung or cement and morter? Bette parctice before preaching . Can you cite any authorit from and scripture that women should be barred from entry into temples? Understnd first ,that he ban her is specific for the age group 10 to 50 only. WOMEN ARE NOT BARRED. the reason is that women in periods might spread infectiion.The ban is not religious . It is hygeinic. Does anybody know that Jayamala was in period while she entered the temple a decade back? Even if she was in period,a disinfection process / ceremony should have been done then and not now. as no harm has resulted by e entry and touching , it is simply foolish to do any ceremony on religious ground. It is an insult to the country, the Great religion ,the presidig deity, keralites,and womanhood in general. Does anybod want to prove tha worsipping ayyappan would bring only misfortune to the worsipper?The tantrics and priests who are ignoramuses should be sent out of the Great temple.
In my opinion, women have every right to enter temples. In the eyes of god, every living being is a devotee who sincerely prays to him. So, it is really shameful on the sabrimala authorities not to allow women to enter the temple. They have to rethink on this issue and frame new rules and procedures.
RE:women devotees at sabrimala
by Ramanath Babu on Jul 05, 2006 07:12 PM Permalink
Oh! How did you borne as a Nair? It is shameful to the entire community.
It may not be entirely your fault. Your parents should have taught you what Hindusim is all about, especially our traditions.
RE:women devotees at sabrimala
by Kiran G Parihar on Jul 08, 2006 05:57 AM Permalink
Kudos Ajit, Atleast one real Hindu on my side. & as for Ramnath Babu, I am still waiting for your replies of my previous question. & I know you will not be able to reply because you are "LAKIR KA FAKIR". Since it was done by my forefathers, it has to be done now - is the kind of your thinking - stale and stagnant. I rememebered a story for you kind of guys. - Once there was a famous temple & people from all over the neighbouring village used to visit the temple for Bhajans in the evening. The priest of the temple had a cat who used to disturb him during the bhajans. So he started tying the cat to a tree just before the bhajans. When the cat was not in sight, he used to tell some one to look out for her & tie her. This thing continued for a long time. Then one day the priest died. A new priest came in and guess what people still tied the cat to the tree. Then one day the cat died. People bought another cat and used to tie around the tree. So a new tradition formed. A CAT HAS TO BE TIED BEFORE BHAJANS. Not all but many of our traditions are formed in this way. This tradition in later ages are exploited by people who has vested interests. I hope you understand these things
RE:women devotees at sabrimala
by Ramanath Babu on Jul 08, 2006 04:39 PM Permalink
Kiran,
I don't write on anything and everything. I think twice before putting my views.
If you are so sick of rituals and traditions, why do you want to go to temple at all? After all, temples are also built by men. You can worship God from your home also if you belive in HIm. Going to the temple and doing poojas all are rituals.
Observing traditions and rituals come later. First you decide whether you really believe in God or not. Secondly, thnik what you know about religion, whether it is Hindu religion, Christian or Islam or any other religion. If you look at the universe and assess yourself as to where you stand in this universe, you will come to know that you are nothing but just like a drop of water in the ocean or a peace of pebble.
EVen those who think that he is the wisest on this world will realise that he knew very little. But to make such a self assessment, you should first shed your ego.
RE:women devotees at sabrimala
by Kiran on Jul 09, 2006 02:43 AM Permalink
Mr. Babu Thanks for your advice. I agree with you but not wholly. As for wherein I stand in the Universe, I do not consider myself as a drop in ocean but the ocean itself. That's what my Hinduism teaches me "Tatva mashi, Soham, Aham Bhramsvi". Mandir are built by man, but for me MANDIR means "MAN ANDAR" - a calm & peaceful mind & body wherin God dwells. Temples are best indication how one should be from inside & outside. The problem & issue of contention here is you tend to look & brighten the outside walls of the temple(human body - male or female) & I look for inner cleaning (mind - wherein God actually dwells). Nevertheless, outside cleaning & purity is also important but we generally tend to neglect the inner one, for which the whole universe is created. And regarding picnic at temple, I believe that we all are here in this world on a short picnic, wherein we have to realize ourselves and let God express himself through our bodies. So whats a big deal in Picnic in temple. Should not we enjoy good things in life??? And if something divine that sabrimala can do as a part in this whole drama, then why to bar a certain section of Womens. I hope I am not caustic this time.
RE:women devotees at sabrimala
by Srivathsan. on Jul 05, 2006 07:58 PM Permalink
Mr. Ajit,
Please know how to respect tradition and other's long-held beliefs. If you knew the kind of regulative principles that are to be upheld for Ayyappa darshan, you wouldn't have uttered these words. If you did not know, you would've said these as you would have had nothing to lose. It's the others whose sentiments are hurt. And as a modern and LIBERAL-MINDED human being, you will move on with your business.
Hinduism has tolerated enough to survive the onslaughts of so many attacks. Please think enough / more than once before saying anything. The comforter's head never aches; it's the bereaved's that does.
No women should enter the premises of Lord Ayyappa. Why dont Jayamala tell this 18 years before?
the truth is-> she did not enter. She said she was pushed by devotees and fell on the feet of Lord Aiyappa. This is rubbish. How come she was not visible to the eyes of lakhs of Devotees? Every devotee to sabarimala knows women (10-50 years) should not visit Lord Aiyappa.
When devotees climb the 18 steps everyone will have their shirt/towel removed. How could jayamala go in that case? what? people can\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t even recognise a person as a male or female after their shirt been removed!!!!!?
sir, I feel that where women are prohibited entry that needs to be respected as this practice hasnt started overnight and has been existing since ages. People say practices should change according to time. Time hasnt changed any thing its people who are changing I strongly believe that ladies should not go where they are not allowed and spoil the sanctity. Let ladies gain respect thus.
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by Binil on Jul 05, 2006 05:41 PM Permalink
What do u mean by sanctity. I do not know the basis of this practice, but I feel a male dominated society created such a ' rule '. Can any one think that God is averse to women and God does not like them visiting their worship place. Does this practice imply that all men vsisting the holy place are pure and does not affect the sanctity of the place.
In historic periods killing a enemy country person was a heroic activity. That was the mentality of the people. Now people are educated, argue for the equality of all, give 50 % reservation to backward people to bring them forward, but still we wish in our mind the old concept of keeping backward people backward itself, women in kitchen and home.
If we insist of maitaining the old practices for the sake of its tradition, then the women folk will be in darkness for ever. We will be cruel in the eyes of God if we do not accept the women, whose life is entirely devoted, dedicated and sacrificed for her parents, husband & children.
I do not ask for a change in the tradition in Sabarimala, but it is happening in all walks of life. We must, at least, have a thought on the problems faced by women and how their life can be improved.
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by KIPA on Jul 08, 2006 05:35 AM Permalink
Subject: Mr. Ramnath Babu
4. & how can you forget the age old wise saying \"Man Changa to Dil mein Ganga\". Pl. ask why a particular trend or tradition was set, get the answer & most of the times I am sure it would be quite logical. Do not follow blindly any tradition or trend that was created centuries ago & depended on Desh (country), Kaal (time) & Paatra (person). These discriminatory rules were never created by God. It is high time that all the people of India understands these things and not be taken for a ride. We should try to break these customs which divides us further in the name of Caste, Creed & Gender. kirangparihar@rediffmail.com
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by M.Praveen on Jul 05, 2006 04:33 PM Permalink
How come when a woman enters the temple ,sanctuaty is lost.Durga/kali,Saraswati etc are being placed beside Vishnu,SriRam etc and being workshipped.????
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by seema on Jul 06, 2006 01:36 AM Permalink
When we know there is discrimination, we should try and change it. Slavery was considered ok for many decades in the US, but I don't think you would want to defend it in the modern world.
Similarly, it is silly to prevent women from entering into the temple. Obviously, God should be powerful enough, not to give into temptation be the entry of a women, if that is the concern!
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by KIPA on Jul 07, 2006 05:01 AM Permalink
Mr. Ramnath Babu I disagree with the detailed description given by you of the requirements for the persons to worship a particular deity. Let me put up a pointwise argument and I expect the answers for the same. 1. "Purity" is indeed required for performing pooja or other ceremonies. But can you guarantee that a person will be pure in 41 days. Can't it take little less or more time. And how are you going to measure the purity. Logically your explanation holds no water. 2. Mental "Purity" can also be achieved by dettaching the mind from world & attaching to the GOD. I pray to god for acheiving purity, serenity & moksha. You can never achive your so called mental purity by being celibate or vrat or other things that are related to body. If somebody can explain me how, I am ready to take the test. 3. M.C is a nature of Woman's body which in itself is created by God. In olden days(when such rules were framed), women during their M.C's did not have products that could keep them clean & hygenic as nowadays. They were separated from the rest of the family for that period even in house, leave alone some women going out of the house or to the temple. Do these things apply now.
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by Sabyasachi on Jul 05, 2006 05:36 PM Permalink
Can you explain how entry of ladies can defile a place? And why do ladies need to gain respect from people who mthink that they can defile a place simply by setting their feet there?
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by ayush on Jul 06, 2006 03:45 PM Permalink
mehdi, will u teach me english. seriously.no kidding.when and where can we meet.please do send a line.
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by karuna on Jul 06, 2006 10:58 AM Permalink
from ur name i feel that u r a woman and u too support ban on entry of women in temples. i would say shame on such women coz todays times are such when all women need to be united and fight for themselves and people with such opinions become the cause of suffering of women.
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by Gayathri Chakravarthy on Jul 10, 2006 02:46 PM Permalink
Hey Ranbir,
Though you need to pick on your vocab, I have yet another comment to make.. For the lady who gave you birth, fed you day & night to make you stand and walk, she certainly should be ranked equal to GOD. Mebbe women need contemplate leaving male children on the steps of Sabarimala temple..wat say everyone there ??
RE:views on women entering the shrine where they are prohibited
by Ramanath Babu on Jul 06, 2006 03:32 PM Permalink
Before ccommenting, people like Karuna should know whatn are the traditions of Sabarimala. To enter into the temple through the 18 steps, one has to take up 41 days strict penance (vrat. During this period, one is supposed to drink even a drop of water only after taking bath in the morning. Even Malayalees live in NOrther part of India (in Delhi & elsewhere) take bath twice a day, during DEcember-January when temperature down to 4 or 5 degree in North. As part of Vrat, one is expected to abstain from sex, and complete purity both physically and mentally has to be observed. A fertile woman can never undertake such vrat, as her period cycle is 28 days and therefore, she will not be able to complete the 41 days vrat. The fact that girls below the age of 10 and women of over 50 are allowed entry into the temple is ample proof that it is not an issue of gender bais.
RE:So What ?
by megha on Jul 05, 2006 08:08 PM Permalink
dude..the lady meant women are human beings before god as in women are human beings in the eyes of god or in frnt of god
RE:So What ?
by Mendi on Jul 05, 2006 10:40 PM Permalink
You need to learn English. The meaning of word before isn't "ahead of" or "better than", the meaning is "in the eyes of".
RE:So What ?
by Mendi on Jul 05, 2006 10:59 PM Permalink
Sir, You need to learn English. The meaning of word before isn't "ahead of" or "better than", the meaning is "in the eyes of" or "in front of" or "in the presence of". Example, a criminal is presented before judge.
Jayamala's claim on her entry into sabarimala temple and touching Lord's idol are totally bluffing. It is her, who is creating controversy and is adding fuel to the fire.
RE:Jayamala's claim
by Viji on Jul 05, 2006 07:58 PM Permalink
First of all one must understand Hinduism. Many Hindu temples are not mere centres for praying. They have their own concepts. Shabarimale Ayyappa is dearer for Brahmacharis. Any human being should be allowed to enter the temple if he/she is not going hurt or disturb Brahmacharis feelings. Hindus will welcome if a temple is built exlusively for feelings of women.
There is another case of Meera Jasmine entering Hindu temple. Reason behind the protest is that in British rule non-Hindus used to enter temple wearing shoes etc. Now things have changed but mindset hasn't. It is ignorance of Hindus about their own great religion.
RE:Jayamala's claim
by Anirban on Jul 05, 2006 07:16 PM Permalink
Women not allowed to enter in Temple.Is that what India is in 21st Century!!! I thought in India we worship women as Lakhsmi and respect them.Is that temple somewhere outside India or is that place inhabited by uneducated people!!
Jayamala should again enter the temple.....and why only her I urge all women to enter the temple unless they are given the reason for not entering the Temple.Women are also human beings.
