India was never a manufacturing base and the land has more people who will not take any risk at all..slaves and slaves who will lick the masters boots but will starve and die rather than take any inititive to help himself. even today 99.9% of our Young men prefer to lick someones boots rather then to use a brush to shine ones own shoes...our moms wash our plates at our homes while we get ready to wash the whitemans plates in a foreign land..lol and claim there even in my own home i never used to wash vessels..hahahaha. Now what do u expect from such races....entrepreneurship ...
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by hitender singh on Feb 01, 2007 02:19 PM Permalink
Couldn't agree more, "a country of billion slaves". or rather say clerk factory
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 01, 2007 02:27 PM Permalink
if say someone helps a "gora" raise his profits and makes good money, how is it any different from doing your own business? he is serving his needs, and so are you, is it not? Thay analogy of "goras" is not right at all. Why a lot of talent works for goras is because they pay them better and offer them a better life style. It's not about being a clerk, it's about the fact that they are paid more and offered better perks. So would you say an employ working for you is your "slave"?
RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 03, 2007 04:32 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Alok, Thanks for the comment. By Goras I meant western civilisation. You see, Japan is the second largest economy as of today. And the Japs use American software and Western people prefer Japanese cars, becuase they find mutual advantage in foregoing the alternative. Japs have not invented a second microsoft reason being they know its no use re-inventing the wheel. Now take the case of India, except for Tally in Finance, I-Flex in Banking softwares, its hard to find a software which is at least 90% Indianised and developed. Now, you cannot say the people working for Tally or I-Flex are not paid well. Now where does the difference comes from, it comes from the vision and the forward perception one needs to imbibe within the culture. A decade ago, Taiwan was the backyard of semi-conductors manufactirers of western world, the Taiwanese are intelligent and they realised this cost advantage cannot continue forever, so they evolved and today we have AMD as the competitor to Intel and they are gradually eating Intel's share. So, what we have now in Taiwan, they have a back-up system up and running and had they kept themselves sleeping ... they would have been nowhere today, isn't it? Thus, the point to drive all of us into is, where are we with our BPO's, KPO's GPO's, and all these Process Outsourcing?? Do we see ourselves fighting with other economies to process only or to develop something new as a self-sustaining mechanism thriving on its own? The answer is right in front of you. Business is not only owning it, they like an employee u too become a slave of customer, business is all about innovation and extrapolating in future and thats where the Goras, I mean the western civilisation is far ahead of us. And as for your logic that innovation comes with better pay - its not very correct. Most of the innovators from any country has come from poor and humble background - Thats rests our case. You can always reach me at sanjay.businessindia@gmail.com
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 12:55 PM Permalink
thanks for your reply, yes it is not that people in iflex and tally are not well paid, it is how much they will hire as their capacity. There are as may jobs as there can be..correct? Now if there is a person X who is good at say making web sites and microsoft or xsoft or ysoft sees him fit for the same (most indian companies do not venture into the content business) i believe it is fine for him to work in that domain. It is a matter of interests. I work for a wholly indian IT company, I have worked with another Indian software giant but then again I do not see anything wrong with friends who left to persue their intersets with non Indian MNCs. Now also remember, most small business still use excel and lotus 123 a lot more than tally :), is that not correct? Tally if you use it seems to be a simple coded out description of the typical accounting methodology: ledger, books of records, credit , debit, balance sheet etc. Do we not get freeware for the saem, yes we do, do we need it, no we used to account before it, is it innovation: NO!, we do not make chips and disks and drives, we simply made a faster calculator which follows the rules of the book. Microsoft "innovates" with software, tells you a new way to do something, we do not do so, rather indian companies do not do so. DBase worked as well as lotus 123 and lotus 123 scripts/macros with some inline code in turboC worked as well as tally.
RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 03, 2007 04:50 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Alok, In continuation to your refering, I shall give u a live example, I am a decently educated from Finance. Now, one of my colleague got her MBA from a very reputed Insitituion (within 1st 5 in India) and I asked her what u want to do after your MBA? And her reply was, I want to work for an MNC and then I asked her why is that so? Her reply was they pay well and I can learn new processes. I again cajoled her what is the aim, will u start a new business for that u need to learn new processes? Her reply was blunt, 'Stupid who wants to have a business, so many headaches'. Now you tell me, if a person after graduating from one of the best of top 5 Management Institutes comments like that, Are we not manufacturing a generation of COOLIES for MNC's? Now the cream of story. I asked her what u expect your starting salary to be? He reply was Rs XX per month, I said okay I will pay you Rs xx/2 per month and with profit sharing on top of that. And should you continously be prudent, U can become a member of directors as well. And in case you make losses, I shall bear it and will provide training, her response was, why take all these headaches yaar. If this be the answer who knows the probably all the business models, cash flow and almost all constraints and variables of business, then imagine the case of Indians. Now what do i do and think? You again have the answer in front of you.
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 01:31 PM Permalink
there you go: http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=153762
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 01:03 PM Permalink
Yes but how many people with xx/2 will you hire? say I am an electronics engineer, my strong areas are industrial automation and power electronics, and I wish to work in this domain and I dont mind designing robotic control systems for the rest of my life. Now can you name me one private organization which has the same motivation, and one private organization who is willing to invest in the products i make? Zilch, ill tell you why, because all these sectors are heavily controlled by the govt in India. they produce their stuff, have the labs, the mechanical fabrication units in place and the budget for the same. Small scale consumer items can cheaply be imported from china whereas heavy industry is a totally different game where numbers are high. products like iflex and tally have a gap they can fill in, they are "smaller" in scale and can be made larger with time, the same is not true for people from a engineering background. The investments are huge, and the biggest spender in this segment is the govt. So if you think i should persure my interests what should i do? Waqt waqt ki baat hai, market mein zyada financial software nahi hai so tally and iflex can fill the gap (iflex i blv is a citibank india software division's spin off so they already had a customer) what about places where the investment is huge? Now neither can i realize my dream biz, nor can i work in the same domain in India, so the best option is to be good at what you get and drop your dreams and chill out like your xx/2 friend. for example Not everyone becomes a singer in India, inspite of being heavily talented..
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by gajendra kumar on Feb 03, 2007 01:54 PM Permalink
rightly said, but blame on our system, we indians are low risk takers and so is our education system which nips off any crteativity which is one of the important essence of an entrepreneur. still one cannot jump into conclusions at this juncture. gajendra.s.kumar.r.g.
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Seshadri on Feb 03, 2007 06:24 PM Permalink
Dear all,
The perception that Indians are willing servants is indeed gaining ground amongst many of us. To understand this, one has to see throught the mindset of the average Indian. What are his goals? How well is his family - both in terms of finance and literacy. For, the majority of our people do not enjoy the western comforts of life; this creates a craving to acquire the luxuries at any cost within a short span of time. Politicians have played on casteism blindly just to fatten their vote banks. It is also because of the culture differences and inherent fear about job security that an average Indian willingly accepts any abuse from the "Westerners". However there are also smart and sensible Indians who can match wits with any "Westerner" - in any sphere. Facts point in both the directions with the weightage favouring the negative. As discussed in earlier posts, there are other factors like education system, risk awareness, cultural inhibitions which play a crucial role. Those who dare may reap success in their way!
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 01, 2007 11:25 AM Permalink
Dear Mr. Varghese, I fully agree with you, see our politicians, all SYCOPHANTS, and see the culture we are breeding around. We are jumping up and down abt India's IT prowess, but has anybody paid an attention what exatcly we are doing, we are just helping the Gora's to leverage on us for their profit by saving cost. Product line wise we don't even know how to develop a new product. All that our IT knows is to write codes for some MNC's and answer calls for them. And we bragging ourselves India is am emerging TIGER and all those.
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 01, 2007 01:20 PM Permalink
the problem is that most CEOs are never good architects or solution finders. When you start a company you have a vision to do something, when you have people working for you, and technology moves fast you start realizing that while you may still have your free spirit of experimenting, you are answerable to the families of people who work for you, and that makes it hard. I used to work for one of the largest organizations in India (IT) and it was always fun to talk to the old timers on how they used to really play on the "front foot" to get their way going, but then those were the days they wore jeans to office and carried a spare attire with ties to meet customers....
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by on Feb 03, 2007 02:07 PM Permalink
Dear Sanjay, You are absolutly right on lack of Product knowledge or no knowledge on products among Indian IT People.We are just like building construction workers, who doesn't have a clue how a building looks like and what the plan is....IT People are well paid "Kooli"
Satisfaction is something high above being an employee or employer. It is subject to individual triats weather u want to do something on ur own. The money as good as ur hefty package can be earned in own business as well, but for some ppl its extreemly important 'how u earn it'. Its all the fire within to hammer the chalenges and stand in the market.Money is not the only criteria.....
The best time to take risk is at early stage of your career. One will be having very less commitments. For example if an engineering grad has good final year project he can convert into an startup with his friends. These days many of the college has incubation centers. By starting your comapny in the college will provide you help from the college/faculties etc. You wont feel alone in the battle of success. You will always be in touch with all knowldege base your college. Once your company is stabilized then take it to next level.
I have studied birth of US silicon valley in detail. Majority of the starups in the silicon valley are from fresh college grads from stanford university. What this tells is experience is a relative term. If you have a great idea, a mastermind team, and some VC or angel investors then no one can stop you from starting your company.
In India, mentally of people is get experience and then start your company. I dont say it is wrong but even fresh college grads can venture into starups. Even if they fail it will be a great learning experience which is more valuable then working for years in a established company. There are about ~27000 hitech companies in the silicon valley. It means every day one or the other company takes birth in silicon valley! In India people beg the MNC's to start a shop in thier city, rather then provididng full support for the home grown entrepreneur. Remember India can generate huge employments after 5 to 10 years only when the support and scope for home grown startup is more.
I am Mechanical engineer(2005), in another 2 months I will be starting my own company back in my college. My college is supporting me in this.
Just an adivce for freah passed out grads, if you want to be an entrepreneur then better look back to your college for incubation support. Catch hold of some final year students to develop your product, they will work as their final year project and later commercialize your product. This type of startup model will prove to be a easy approach for software/small hardware startup.
What I belive is a great college, a brilliant idea, an hardworking team, access to VC/angels and some good restaurants nearby is an ideal receipe for starups[:-)]
My best wishes to all the young entrepreneur. Belive in yourself, read success stories of silion valley startups. And plan well before your venture into startups.
RE:Fresh College grads should venture into startups
by sandeep chakravarthy on Feb 01, 2007 10:34 PM Permalink
Best of Luck..for your venture..
India is tipped to beat Japan in Quality and US in Service n Support...u think Final years students will have enough exposure n mental growth to achieve this level of committment. For small Enterprises starting with late growth visions ... u can use college incubation centres....
But I would support Amar Deep ... because exposure to handling small small things, and different pressures and processes are very crucial for a Healthy n growing company.
Experience in people management is very crucial n exposure to Industry processes n procedures are very necessary....
But if you r into creative n innovative Product development or Service Delivery...then u can leverage on experience factor...
Anyways,
All the Best for your venture...
Even I am a Mechanical Engineer (2004) strating my comapny by March.
RE:Fresh College grads should venture into startups
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 01, 2007 11:44 AM Permalink
Dear DJ, I have read your write-up and is really impressed. I am an NRI based in UAE and I am interested in looking into your project, probably if you are interested. Should you find you would like to give a thought, lets communicate in my email id sanjay.businessindia@gmail.com with the caption "DJ from Hubli". Regards and God Bless. Sanjay Bhakat
RE:Fresh College grads should venture into startups
by Amar Deep on Feb 01, 2007 02:47 PM Permalink
Dear DJ
Not to discourage you, I have done this in 1996 and didn t work, the market was not big those days too and i lacked experience in market. I was a new tech grad from College then, after 4 years of work in Desi and so called MNCs. I got to reventure out again with my saved income as capital. It is 2 years now and im doing good. Now what i advice you is that you still need to know the market and its dynamics which typical Indian grad Lacks because he would not have delivered couriers/ news papers/ worked in Mac s and in dormitories like an average american Kid, THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE HE ALREADY KNOWS THE WORLD AND ITS DYNAMICS. you need to think of this before your next STEP. A Marwari boy is a trained in his fathers / Uncle s shop from his childhood days so they turn out to be better entreprenuers in Tech/ engg/ consulting field the only addition is their Education unlike his parents lack that. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS IF YOU ARE A FIRST GENERATION ENTREPRENUER. - AMANDEEP
NOTHING WOULD BE DIFFICULT IF YOU KNOW WHAT U WANT TO DO IN LIFE. I AM DOING A JOB FROM LAST 3 YEARS, BUT I AM SURE ABOUT MY FUTURE, THAT I AM GONNA START MY OWN BIZ AFTER 2 YEARS.
RE:Anything : JOB or BIZ.
by sankey jain on Feb 01, 2007 02:24 PM Permalink
yes dear u r right .one should have their own thinking and it should be positive
Whatever said and done. It is always better that one starts his own company only after he gets certain work experience. You can run a show with profits only after learning about it. The learning can happen either at your company or at the place you work.
You can learn at you own company at a heavy cost. If you are ready to bear it I think one can go ahead and start his own company even before he gets employed
I did my MBA 12 years ago from USA and came back to India and worked for 5 years for someone else before starting my own company. The work ex helped me a lot in my start-up and I managed to get good contracts overseas and made good money for last 3-4 years. However, times seem to be changing now as job market is very good, pay packages are going through the roof and in India running a small business is becoming tougher due to intense competition, risks of non-payment of dues going up and runaway inflation leading to higher costs with respect to property rentals, high cost of materials and labour/staff, etc. I have seen both sides of the coin and it is not an easy decision at all to be in a job or on your own. Both have their merits and one should choose as per one's own temperament and risk-profile.
It is my strong belief -born out of experience- that entrepreneurship can be taught and training or a method to entreprenuership can be devised. Our MBA programs have been designed towards creating white collar jobs taking few things for granted-even in case studies. We certainly require training programs for entrepreneurship. We imagine children of Baniya's or busines or industrialist family are born with spirit of entrepreneurship. To some extent it is true but largely the environment and father training son has more to do with this.Indians by nature prefer self employment than jobs for that reason we have huge tiny and small industry's as well as family owned enterprises. these people and the new entrants need to be trained to think globally and devise methods to their enterprise.
RE:RE:We need to train for entrepreneurship
by on Feb 01, 2007 11:06 AM Permalink
Most sensible response....but instead of thinking of something overhead and expecting schools to do it...there will be some or the other way to work it out our way.....
I vote for Job..and i recomend for Handsome pay Job.. becoz i am inot business from 5 yrs in IT & other types of businesses..This is lot of tension, mental torture, investments, bills, salaries ,, etc, etc...Should be mentally Sound to control all these.. BUT A JOB GIVES A REGULAR PAY CHECK, HOLIDAYS, PERKS, ON FIXED DATES...NO PROBLEM AT ANY CASE...PRESSURE IN JOB??? OF COURSE...Job pressure is very less than a business...HELO YOUNG GUYS..DONT JUMP INTO BUSINESS...TAKE CARE....There is a lot to bear in biz...not easy as regular pay checks...
RE:Strong Agree to Vote for Job...
by Jaya Simha on Jan 31, 2007 12:11 PM Permalink
Hi Jayasimha, You are right ...i am too in business..Not as good as Job..and not safe as a Job. Thanks rediff..
if it is for only money u r sure to fail with time....
Remember,,,
Money doesnot multiply by Volume of sales but it does by multiplying your Relations established both among customers n vendors....n above all Employees
RE:RE:Strong Agree to Vote for Job...
by manojkumar K on Feb 01, 2007 11:39 AM Permalink
Wonderful. I remember a small business man working his way up saying, ``Log jodo, paisa khud chal ke ayega.'
RE:Strong Agree to Vote for Job...
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 01, 2007 12:02 PM Permalink
Dear Jaya Simha, What i can surmise from your write-up is your acute lack of correct attitude. Success is not abt how u handle tension or how many things u have to maintain to take care of things. Its abt your attitude. When u said that Job gives a regular pay check and u thought without any tension??? Arey in your business u pay the bills on time for your own good and in job u pay the bills of somebody for his good!! In ur business each ounce of your effort brings in reward with extra business or reduced cost, and in job it is interpreted as chamcha giri. I have worked in MNC's as well in small companies. The bottomline is, have passion in whatever u do, life will be a dream of roses, despise what u do ... life will remain a hell for u whatever, wherever and whenver u do.
I work for the top most IT company but still feel that working for self is too good an option..I have started few things on the net at a small scale..and would like to grow them over a period of time as earnings from them excites me the most
RE:working for self is anytime better..
by sandeep chakravarthy on Jan 31, 2007 04:09 PM Permalink
hey dats great Vikas...this is the way to go MAn....Keep up your dreams....
