I think you should all know that any opinion even slightly differing from the article is being deleted, well they are from me and others. When all I've done is politely pointed out a few important facts missing from the argument.
This site obviously doesn't feel it acceptable to display any other opinion other than their own. And seems to be the way all media outlets are heading unfortunately.
RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 06:21 PM Permalink
more over, yu applaud a certain gentleman for pulling up the case of symonds being abused by crowd and he said that was wrong. well, everyone feels the same about it. that section of the crowd has some bad behaviour and that was universally rejected by all the newspapers. it was covered in the front page.
now the case of bhajji - he is being held responsible for a comment he did not make. he was banned for lack of video/ audio evidence. and the worst of the lot, when sachin's the only person who's heard it - his evidence was rejected.
RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by Calvin Corser on Jan 08, 2008 06:36 PM Permalink
From what I understand the users report it, then the site takes it down it they see fit, but I'm open to corrected on this one.
But I'm disappointed that a fair percentage of people don't want to see the whole story and are deleted anyone who points that out.
Were the Australian cricket team good sports in this game? No not really. Did the break the rules? Except maybe by Hogg, no. That apart from a few missing facts about who heard the word monkey used. was my only point.
If the way the Australian cricket team played wasn't to a standard we feel acceptable, I'm all for changing the rules.
But the independent person in charge of the match felt Harbhajan did. How is that the Australian's fault or doing? For reporting something they feel unacceptable.
And just because the Australian cricket team are no angels, does that make Harbhajan innocent?
I feel it's a case were both are wrong, but one broke the rules, and the facts of that seem to be missing from most articles and comments.
RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 06:42 PM Permalink
prove me harbhajan is wrong.
yes, the site does take it down when its libelous or a troll or an inflamatory message too much like a spam. the aussie team were good with cricket, but cheap with spirit. its unpardonable to launch a tirade by the captain when he in fact grassed it. same with clarke. there's enough evidence to show they weren't in control, and yet they stay cocky and defiant. everyone knows who's into sledging, who started it all. now every other team does it. when sreesanth does it the aussie team is livid. same with bhajji.
bottomline is indians have never liked the way australians behaved. nor des any other country in the world.
RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by Calvin Corser on Jan 08, 2008 07:01 PM Permalink
Prove to me he's not.... That's my point, none of us know for sure either way, and so many claim to 'know' he's innocent.
All I wanted to do was point out was that he's done it before, was asked not to do it again, and now Symonds and 2 others believe he did it again.
Besides there was only 1 person this needed to be proved too, and he believed it was. And he's a South African.
RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by on Jan 09, 2008 08:40 AM Permalink
Innocent until proven guilty - Harbhajan is innocent because there is no proof that he said anything
RE:RE:C'mon delete my opinion again....
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 06:44 PM Permalink
also, check this: Rashid Latif was banned for claiming a catch which was actually grassed. Here Ponting appealed for Dhoni's catch after not only grassing it but also balancing himself with the help of ball touching the ground. A ban for five matches is consistant with Latif?
Firstly, the Australian team need to take a good, long look at how they conduct themselves on the field. Their sledging is very borderline and they appeal far too much. It is a gentleman's game after all. MUCH room for improvement!
India are not the innocent lambs either. Sreesanth was a total goose in the one day series. Harbhajan himself dishes it out - and his carry on after his dismissal of Ponting was not exactly humble.
If he called Symonds a Monkey after what happened in India then three games is consistent with Lehmann and Gibbs.
The idea that 'while he deserves to be listened to, his word alone has no evidentiary value' is misconceived in law and in common sense. It is direct, admissable evidence. Only Procter heard all the evidence and was able to assess the witnesses and their demeanour. In Australia we listen to ALL the evidence and make a decision. That is why, in the end, Haneef was given the benefit of the doubt AND it was upheld on appeal in a canter. Procter is not Australian anyhow.
India is entitled to appeal and must get a full and proper hearing. But the way they snipe at Procter and the decision is inappropriate.
IF the BCCI abandon the tour if the appeal fails then that is an absolute disgrace. Especially after its less than active response in India to the 'monkey' issue - its pious mouthings about racism must sound somewhat hollow to Symonds, who took a lot on the chin in India.
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by Mahesh Jagga on Jan 08, 2008 06:25 PM Permalink
"If Harbhajan called Symonds Monkey, three games is consistant with Lehmann and Gibbs" Agreed. No one other than Harbhajan and Symonds knows that and only person within earshot was Sachin. How did Proctor find the truth?
Secondly, if you remember Rashid Latif was banned for claiming a catch which was actually grassed. Here Ponting appealed for Dhoni's catch after not only grassing it but also balancing himself with the help of ball touching the ground. A ban for five matches is consistant with Latif?
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 06:43 PM Permalink
true. that should be highlighted, he was a brown skinned asian.
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by Adnan on Jan 08, 2008 06:26 PM Permalink
Todd Grant only an Indian can understand a fellow Indian.
I understand that you have no idea how it fells to be treated the way Umpires Match referee ICC an ill-spirited Australian team have done to the Indian cricket team YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND! YOU ARE NOT AN INDIAN!
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by Todd Grant on Jan 08, 2008 06:54 PM Permalink
Having lived in Japan - which is a great country but very monocultural in places, I can tell you I have lived as a racial minority and have been subjected to racism and discrimination and been pretty powerless to do anything about it. So, whilst it is true that I am not an Indian, and perhaps I cannot understand I am not totally without perspective.
But, with respect, I think saying someone cannot understand because of their race or nationality is a pretty poor argument...
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by on Jan 08, 2008 06:33 PM Permalink
percecution complex "YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND! YOU ARE NOT AN INDIAN!"
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by Adnan on Jan 08, 2008 06:39 PM Permalink
INDIANS ARE NOT A RACE. THEY ARE "CITIZENS OF A COUNTRY"...Mr. On.. you need some basic lessons.
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by on Jan 08, 2008 06:57 PM Permalink
Oh please. Leave it out. You sound like you are 5 years old.
RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 06:30 PM Permalink
todd, india only has suspended the tour. we dont care about your process. we care about the ICC process. if lehmann was nailed for evidence. it should be the same with indians. i will take sachin's word rather than "creative" people like ponting who can lie in front of a camera. so i will feel bhajjie is hard done
RE:RE:Everybody Needs to Take a Few Deep Breaths and RELAX
by Todd Grant on Jan 08, 2008 06:43 PM Permalink
Raj, you might be right about Harbhajan being hard done by. Maybe the ICC process was wrong. But Procter had to assess the evidence and, presumably, he did to the best of his ability. If he made an error, then it is important to correct it on appeal.
I know they have only suspended the tour, but there is a hint of uncertainty and the BCCI is now not covering itself in glory in how it has attacked the decision - it could have been handled with more dignity and Procter does deserve better. The BCCI is, to use a football term, 'playing the man and not the ball' at the moment. I hope the BCCI calms down its attacks and rhetoric and lets the appeal process go through. Whilst the ICC is often about as useful as 'tits on a bull' one would hope they would handle this appeal carefully and appropriately.
I agree that I'm not sure how Procter would find against Harbhajan beyond reasonable doubt if it was Symonds word against Harbhajan and Tendulkar - assuming Ponting's second hand evidence was ignored. But, the point is, we weren't there so we don't know exactly what the actual evidence was.
The above says it all the SMS was not sent Sacin has come out and said it. I do note that Australian player have come out and supported there version of events but heard nothin from Indian players.
Storm in a tea cup, something was said, something may have been misinterpretted. Are these guys men or children.
Bring on Perth and put this saga behind us. Indian cricket has not been without it's contraverseys in the past.
That was really enlightening, and I must say - gave a point for point clarification of the Indian view point on this whole issue!! And I really feel that Prem should be given a shot at being BCCI spokesman - you'd do a great job. The news channels have been running the Aussie tour debacle from many angles - it'd be nice if someone came up with all the bad decisions Bucknor has to his credit, aginst India - which cost us crucial games. And this test was definitely one of them. If he had given Symmonds out - this match would have had a different result! As things happened the fire in the Indian bellies died down, and we just caved to the pressure from the 14 man Aussie team. Bucknors biggest problem with the Indians I feel - is that he feels we appeal unfairly, or probably for anything or everything [something Ponting would allude to as cheats!]. It would do Bucknor a lot of good and sense to take a look at the decisions [once he reaches his hotel room], he has been forced to give or just keen to give in favour of the Aussies. In fact the country which has benefitted the maximum from Bucknors largesse, are the Aussies. No wonder thay feel he is a champion Umpire, & make sure he officiates for most matches they play. And he has definitely given the Indian team the 'finger'. In the end more than the BCCI or ICC or the Indian public. I feel the person who made the biggest impact on this issue was non other than our 'little master'. Most of us wouldn't have expected Sachin to
RE:The disaster down under
by Abed Jani on Jan 08, 2008 07:26 PM Permalink
The problem is not only Bucknor, it is also with Benson. That they believe when australian players are appealing it must be out, when Indian players are appealing it must be false. Same for Procter. If Aust players say that Harbhajan said something, then believe it, if Indians say that Harbhajan did not say it, do not believe it. Do you see the problem now?
No matter how we spin this, the fact of the matter is that our crowd called Symonds "monkey". Why was Symonds chosen and not Ponting? In our culture it is perfectly acceptable to make fun of someone for their dark complexion (Kalu, Kaalia). We do not make fun of people's lighter complexion. I do not think that Mr.Panicker's example, of his wife calling him "monkey", applies to the situation at hand. However, I'm not entirely sure if the crowd was being racist or simply displaying appallingly bad taste. The same benefit of the doubt can not be extended to cricketers who represent our nation. They are pretty much our ambassadors, and any racist comments should be thoroughly deplored.
For anyone who wonders why we do not have an Umpire of International caliber, peruse Mr. Panicker's column. Emotion triumphs over objectivity and journalism. This is not necessarily a bad thing in India (rhetoric could actually help one's career) - however it is seen as lack of professionalism in other parts of the world. "Sissy schoolgirl" indeed - not as bad as using "Golliwog" in a previous article, but pretty close. Yellow journalism at its best.
RE:No spin
by anand kumar on Jan 08, 2008 06:08 PM Permalink
Monkey by any standards is definitely a bad word. Unfortunately, we Indians have a tendency of criticising our own selves which they feel as a style. When Ponting utters such words, we call its their way of playing cricket and when one retaliates he is abused and not backed by our own countrymen. whatta hypcrcy. amen
RE:No spin
by Sri Sri on Jan 08, 2008 06:11 PM Permalink
Why can't the benefit of doubt be extended to our players? How can you so sure that Bhajji has made a racist comment? Your statement seems to assume that it is a fact whereas it is not confirmed from any independent source. Finally, if you still are having difficulty between and emotions and objectivity after reading a column that has pointed out the real cause for the distraughtness of the Indians, you have to try harder to improve your reading abilities.
RE:No spin
by Calvin Corser on Jan 08, 2008 05:53 PM Permalink
I'm glad to see as I thought, there are people on the other side of the fence who can see things as they really are, not just interested in pushing their own agendas. Your words are actually one the most heartening things I've read over this whole issue, and what I would love to see people really take to heart. And would be a real way forward.
RE:No spin
by Calspadeaspade on Jan 08, 2008 07:16 PM Permalink
Symonds also had the white lipstick and the crowd behaved badly. Lot o west Indies players have played in India. No body complained of any racism. bad behaviour may be. This is a new thing that South Africa and Australia are trying to slap the Asian countries with. Australian officials complained about Symond being called racial slur immediately after South africa lodged a complainr against Pakistan. A slur is a slur whether racial or otherwise. So infuture all the asian countries should also protest every slur Aussies make in the form of gamesmanship. So far they had ignored them and Aussies got away with them.
Some people term the West Indies to be courteous, sincere, honest, etc. Please note that in the 5th Day's play against South Africa, West Indies and the umpires (includes simon tauffel) played a great part of their honesty. Amla;s catch gymnastically taken by Gayle (that's what they claim) was of a no ball and no one noticed it. Secondly, Smith's catch taken by Gayle in second slip was grassed by Gayle in similar fashion of Michael Clarke's however, it was given out and no one went inside this sh1t.
In fact, least anyone bothered about these instances, as South Africa were cruising towards a solid victory and relied on the other batsmen to come for their rescue. West Indies enjoyed their slice of luck as any wicket that had come in their way was a jackpot for themselves!!
