Raj, if the BCCI has a gag order, you and I would surely agree that in the interests of justice, for Harbhajan's benefit and for the benefit of all concerned, the BCCI might just find it in their power/willingness to lift the gag and instruct Sachin to publicly disclose his version of events.
Not only would this provide welcome clarification, it would also shame Proctor if Sachin says "I told Proctor that Harbhajan definitely did not utter the word monkey at any time as I was able to hear the entire discusion between him and Symonds".
Of course, if Sachin only says "I didn't hear the word said by Harbhajan" then that would speak volumes because he's not saying the word wasn't said, just that he didn't hear it. That, opposed to 3 Australians saying they did hear the word being said, is an interesting conundrum.
Some comments on Symonds will follow shortly. Cheers Michael
RE:Sachin
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:17 PM Permalink
imagine a scenario - next match, when the players are going to drinks. symonds is at it again. a "friendly banter". bhajji is at the drinks trolley alone surrounded by aussie team members and no cameras nearby. suddenly symonds starts shouting, and all the aussie team members run to the umpire and claim bhajjie has shouted at him and abused him racially.
now what stops the umpire from banning permanently, since there has been a precedence in just the previous match ? now, how will people ever know if this is the case in the first palce , thats this match ? since proctor only went by the australian version, much that he says he's trying to be fair and has heard in the indian side too, its totally unfair that he choses to listen to the australian side. thats the bone of contention. its an insult to sachin, since his testimony has been ignored.
RE:RE:Sachin
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:29 PM Permalink
Raj, we don't know the specifics of Sachin's testimony - and therein lies the rub, as they say.
With it, we're all in a position to (better) comment. As for your scenario, as odd as it is (because as a batsmen, I've never taken a drinks break without talking to my partner), I agree it could be difficult. But again, you'd have an appeal process and the usual avenues if players tried to conspire in such a fashion.
I think you'll also find a lot more cameras and microphones from now on which will lessen the chance of any such conspiracy theories!
if you see the footages i see symonds tapping bucknor on back after a successful over, what was he telling bucknor ? why the match same match refree did not step in as he had in rashid latif's case
As said by Prem Panicker that "India's cricketing wealth may be 50 times that of any rival, but that does not give that country the right to run the game", than why it is that ICC allows Adam Gilchrist to use spungy inner gloves which helps the wicket keeper to have a better grip on the ball and why is only ponting allowed to use a broader bat than any other cricketer and so why it is that Australian cricketers are allowed to do whatever they can, in other means Australia is not bounded by any rules and regulations made by ICC the rules and regulations are for all the other teams except Australia
imagine a scenario - next match, when the players are going to drinks. symonds is at it again. a "friendly banter". bhajji is at the drinks trolley alone surrounded by aussie team members and no cameras nearby. suddenly symonds starts shouting, and all the aussie team members run to the umpire and claim bhajjie has shouted at him and abused him racially.
now what stops the umpire from banning permanently, since there has been a precedence in just the previous match ? now, how will people ever know if this is the case in the first palce , thats this match ? since proctor only went by the australian version, much that he says he's trying to be fair and has heard in the indian side too, its totally unfair that he choses to listen to the australian side. thats the bone of contention. its an insult to sachin, since his testimony has been ignored.
RE:to all the aussie blokes here
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:28 PM Permalink
but we do not KNOW exactly what evidence was given. As pointed out by others, transparency would be of benefit to all and I for one would like the transcripts of the hearing released.
RE:to all the aussie blokes here
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:38 PM Permalink
sure, thats what im sore about proctor. there's zero transparency. thats why the indians are so sore for claiming to nail bhajji on hearsay.
Ok now we got bucknor out which is satisfying. But did we get what we need to keep india's pride?What if ICC bans Harbajan of racial reasons after the test seris? What would BCCI and india do after? If he charged and proved, then will it not affect our pride? Atleast now, we have the hold of threatening to boycott the series but after the series? Why ponting can't be suspended for his behaviour and a false catch appeal during the test? all why's? but who will answer?
RE:What if harbajan banned after the series?
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
So basically you are confirming the "blackmail" theory, is that correct? And what rules can Ponting be suspended for? Appealing for the umpire to make a decision? Firing back at a media who is calling him a cheat? Playing hard and tough? Conspiring with the ICC to rob India of a draw by creating a situation in which they would choke to a part time bowler in the final over?
RE:What if harbajan banned after the series?
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:16 PM Permalink
the media person didnt say he was a cheat fyi. its not blackmail its assurance that an inconsistent umpire should not be around. its an assurance required for punishing the aussie players too.
RE:What if harbajan banned after the series?
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:25 PM Permalink
come on raj, do you really think the reporter wasn't calling him a liar?
Look gentleman, now taht they have won the test and mostly the series [atleast they ahev ensured taht they cant lose],they wont mind falling at everyone's feet and we are all jumping like real monkeys now.PLEASE INSIST THAT THIS SYDNEY TEST RESULT IS NULL ND VOID TILL THEN ITS STILL A LOST BATTLE FOR INDIA NO MATTER WHETHER BUCKNOR IS REMOVED OR EVEN PONTING IS BANNED WE MUST GET A LIFE ALL INDIANS ACTING AS IF WE HAVE WON A GREAT WAR.ALAS,NO,WE HAVE NOT SO FIGHT FOR MORE,PRESSURISE BCCI AND EVEN THE PLAYERS SHOUD DO THE SAME.NOW WE HAVE ENDORSEMENT BY I.C.C. THAT THE UMPIRING COST US THE MATCH COME ON CONTINUE WITH THE FIGHT
RE:WE SILLY INDIANS,FIGHT MUST GO ON !!!!!
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:21 PM Permalink
And while you are on your high horse force the ICC to give england a win against you at lords. Works both ways my friend.
RE:WE SILLY INDIANS,FIGHT MUST GO ON !!!!!
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:43 PM Permalink
its pretty apparent who holds the reigns. it becomes apparent when things go against you dramatically, like in the sydney test.people calling for racial abuse without evidence, too many players lying in the name of uncertainty.
Australians have won last 3 world cups in a row. Wonderful!! Great acheivement!! They played wonderfully and won 99% of the matches they played in these cups. They beat us(I am an Indian Cricket fan) in one of the finals. Fair and Square!! No one questioned thier spirit or whatever. I still remember Ricky's great knock!! The result in the first match at Melborne in this same series is no different from the second one. Everyone blamed the Indian batsmen for their failure and no one whined about the umpiring or Aussies' spirit. But, lot of people have questioned it after the Sydney test. As Kumble said, it is there for everyone to see(The reason for questioning the spirit of the Aussies and the umpiring blunders). What about the 7 match one day series in India? Were there any umpiring blunders against the Aussies?
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by mmspm on Jan 08, 2008 08:06 PM Permalink
that doesnt matter for anti nationalists who wanna bring nations pride all the time by hook or by crook
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by Spinal Tap on Jan 08, 2008 08:16 PM Permalink
Did you read my posting entirely? Can you make your points more clear? I dont even understand whatever you are trying to say!!?
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:30 PM Permalink
@ spinal tap, yeah well, at least they wont consistently ignore one team and give a lot of wrong decisions. also the machines wont mock dravid !
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:20 PM Permalink
a lot of people said indians played well,l and but for those dubious decisions, india could have saved the match. they felt india wenret up to it in the first match. the second match they played good cricket, only to be cheated of a fair result by a bunch of liars taking advantage of the situation of an umpire who'd decisions in your favour as long as you appealed
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by Spinal Tap on Jan 08, 2008 08:22 PM Permalink
I say, bring on the machines. They will do mistakes like the human upmires. But atleast, they are not 'biased' like Bensen and Bucknor against 'some' team
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:42 PM Permalink
machines won't be used to umpire. The technology used is soooooo inaccurate. Hawkeye is an absolute joke, do you know how many variable would be needed to assess the course of a ball. Snickometer only detects the presence of a noise and can not distinguish noise sources. The only reliable technology is the heat sensor and that may be used one day. Even the cameras are dodgy for most decisions, depending on who you talk to interprets the questioned catches have differently. Some say caught, others grassed. In the end its always going to come down to interpretation, and always 1 party is not going to be happy with the interpretation.
RE:RE:Aussies' Spirit
by Spinal Tap on Jan 08, 2008 08:47 PM Permalink
It wont be this harder to accept the mistake of the machines and move on. This mistakes of B& B makes me think that they were biased towards the Aussies.
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by Dileep on Jan 08, 2008 08:29 PM Permalink
No one is complaining about the lost match. Aussies are still the better team and they may go on and beat us in the remaining matches. But the protest is against racism charges against Harbhajan which is based on a lie by Ponting & Symonds. Also protest is against poor officiating standards. It is not because India lost the match.
RE:RE:Aussies' Spirit
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 08:31 PM Permalink
relax, none of the aussies are on a mission to listen. they are spamming away what they feel is their version. i tried reasoning. but it wouldnt work. they'd very politley ignore the other side of the story! like how proctor did.
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by on Jan 08, 2008 08:51 PM Permalink
Raj - you say none of us are listening? Listening to what precisely?
1) I agree that the BCCI should appeal because on what has been made publicly available, Proctor shouldn't have found Harbhajan guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" 2) I disagree that India played "in the true spirit of the game" as per Kumble given its own slow over rates, over appealing, deliberate time wasting, own players not walking 3) I agree that Australia also did not play "in the true spirit of the game" given its slow over rates, over appealing, own players not walking 4) I want the BCCI to allow Sachin to disclose his exact testimony to give transparency to the decision 5) I want Indians to acknowledge and admit that Harbhajan did racially abuse Symonds in India (as proved by Mr. Panicker) 6) I want Indians to realise that the umpiring was the root of all evil in this match, as it facilitated the players losing their cool, control and making bad decisions re: appeals, walking and general decency. 7) I want INdians to acknowledge the umpiring was BAD, not BIASED, as evidenced by the anti-Australian decisions in Sydney 8) I want Indians to acknowledge the inconsistency and fallacy of their comments that it is an anti-Indian conspiracy, given the decisions by Bucknor at Lords last year, decisions throughout the recent ODI series in India and past history - rather that it is just poor umpiring generally.
I look forward to hearing from you Raj, or will you just ignore logic? Cheers Michael
RE:Aussies' Spirit
by Spinal Tap on Jan 08, 2008 08:44 PM Permalink
Dileep, Let me make something clear to you. I am with you and with India and not with the Aussies.
