RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by keyswest on Apr 05, 2007 10:02 PM Permalink
Dear JAGBIR SINGH,
I really don't want to sound rude, but your analysis is not sound. Hope you are not an analyst by profession. When Mr. Aryaputra says that Tendulkar is not a match winner, he is absolutely right. A match winner is supposed to win games for one's country single handedly against all odds. Now you said out the 31 instances he scored a century, India has won. What you should have done is, continued the analysis further by determining how many of those centuries were against minnows, how many helped the team dig out of the hole and win the game, how many other team mates scored a century along with him. In simple words I am asking you to analyze the circumstances behind the 31 centuries. I have not done this analysis, but I can guesstimate that probabaly less than 5 out of 41 centuries helped India win in a difficult situtation. This includes his innings in Sharjah. so think about wat I penned down. Hope you see the same thing I see
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by rahul on Apr 05, 2007 10:33 PM Permalink
mr jagbir u have given records of just 10century.bu he has scored 41 tton so wat abt rest31?
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by Shekar on Apr 05, 2007 10:56 PM Permalink
The common sense is, when a player scored a century means in most of the times, the team would have sored good and won the match. Now you take any player in the world who scored some centuries, you can 60-90% times their team would have won the match. Now, no matter to say that 31 times out of 41 times he won matches, simply it happens with any player. Rest of the issues are common like, against strong opponents, playing abroad, in finals, etc.
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by JAGBIR SINGH on Apr 05, 2007 09:18 PM Permalink
Dear Friend,
Pls go through on these analysis and then think again :
People have often criticised Sachin for not being a match winner. Here is a compilation made by a big sachin fan Source : Message on rediff message boards When many people say how many of Sachin's hundreds have come for a winning cause, I decided to check the Cricinfo stats and here are the results. Out of the 41 hundreds, 11 hundreds have gone in vain. I will try to analyse each of them.
1. 137 off 137 balls Vs SriLanka at Delhi in 1996 World Cup. India scored 271/3 in 50 overs. The only other 50 score was from Azhar. SL made 272 in 48.4 overs. Manoj Prabhakar had 4-0-47-0. He also opened in the innings with Sachin and scored 7 of 36 balls.
2. 100 of 111 Balls Vs Pak in Singapore- Apr 96. India 226 all out in 47.1 overs, When Sachin was out score was 186/4. Pak had a reduced target of 187 from 33 overs. 3. 110 of 138 Balls vs Sri Lanka In Colombo - Aug 96. Again India 226 for 5 in 50 overs, Only other 50 score from Azhar (58 of 99 balls).Sachin has also bowled 6-0-29-1, the second most economical bowler and the only wicket taker (SL were 230/1 in 44.2) of the match next to Srinath. 7 bowlers were used by Azhar.
4. 143 of Balls Vs Aus at Sharjah, Apr 1998. This was chasing under lights. The qualifying match before the final. The whole world knows about this match. Still one interesting point, when Sachin was out India were 242 at 5 at 43 overs. Target was 276 in 46. Still India finished at 250/5 scoring just 8 of the next 3 overs. Great performance indeed.
5. 101 of 140 Balls against SL at Sharjah in Oct 2000. Indian score was 224/8 in 50 overs. (No other 50 score). SL got 225/5 in 43.5, Sachin also bowled 5-0-22-0, better economy rate than everyone except Srinath.
6. 146 of 153 Balls against Zimbabwe at Jodhpur - December 2000 India made 283 / 8 in 50 overs. Sachin was the last man to be dismissed, score was 235/8 at 46.3 overs when he was out. Agarkar and Zaheer Khan propelled India to 283 in the last 3.3 overs. When Sachin has scored 146 of 235 in 46.3 overs, you can guess what the other 8 great batsmen were doing against the World class Zimbabwe attack. Second Highest scorer was Zaheer Khan with 32. Zim got 284/9 in 49.5 overs. Agarkar bowled the last over. Sachin also got 6-0-35-1
7. 101 of 129 Balls Vs SA at Johannesburg - Oct 2001 India got 279/5 in 50, Ganguly made 127 of 126 balls. When Ganguly got out, the score was 193-1 in 35.2 overs. Sachin was the last man to get out at 263. SA got 280 in 48.4 overs. Sachin bowled 9-0-51-0, second best in economy rate next only to Agarkar (10-0-45-1)
8. 141 of 135 balls Vs Pak at Rawalpindi, March 2004. India were chasing 329 and were 317 all out in 48.4 overs, 8 balls to spare. No other batsman made even a 50 (when chasing 300 ) and when Sachin was out, India were 245-4 in 38.4 overs. They needed 85 from 68 balls with 6 wickets in hand.
9. 123 of 130 Balls vs Pak at Ahmedabad, April 2005. India made 315/6 in 48 overs (48 over match), again no other 50 score. Second highest was Dhoni 47 of 64 balls, (third highest was extras - 39). Pak made 319 in 48 overs. The three quicks (Balaji, Nehra and Khan went for 188 runs from 26 overs between them taking only 2 wickets). Sachin bowled 6-0-36-1. No Harbhajan and no Kumble.
10. 100 of 113 Balls Vs Pak at Peshawar, Feb-2006. India were 328 all out in 49.4 overs. Pathan and Dhoni got 60 each. When Sachin was out when India were 305-5 in 45 overs. Managed only 23 in the last 5 overs. Pak scored 311/7 in 47 overs and won by D/L method. Could have been anybody's game. Sachin did not bowl. 11. 141* of 148 balls vs WI at Malaysia. India made 309 /5 in 50 overs. Sachin was not out. Pathan was the only other 50 scorer. WI made 141/2 in 20 overs and won by D/L method. Again could have been anybody's game.
In the other 31 instances India has won 30 times and once there was no result.
Now, please think again when you say sachin's 100s were in the losing cause and that he is not a team player. It is a fact that for the entire 90's India played International cricket with 1 player and 10 jokers.
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by Kannan SivaramanViswanatha on Apr 05, 2007 09:40 PM Permalink
Friend, great statistics! The question is, whether he has been a matchwinner in the last three years? Nothing to cheer about. I said "three years", giving a wide allowance to Sachin in keeping with the typical Indian mindset. In strict parlance, if anyone has not performed for more than six months, he has no right to stake a claim in team selection. The guy has been given a long, long rope. Enough is enough!
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by yadav on Apr 05, 2007 09:44 PM Permalink
Jagbir, ur compilation is great. Indian team depended on him for many years, but the fact is since 2 years are so sachin is not contributing much to the team. we can not keep him in the team on his past records. Every body knows that he can not play as he used to play 5 years before.If we compare today's Sachin with Ponting, hayden, Jaya Surya, lara, who are still playing good game sachin is not fit to play now. He can quit one days and continue in tests for few more years. A young player like Karthik or Raina can be made in to a good player instead of giving Sachin more chances.
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by sssss rrrrrr on Apr 05, 2007 10:09 PM Permalink
Jagbir my good man ! I'm afraid you've put your foot in your mouth , inspite of such a wonderfully compiled table !
Since you're so good with stats, pray tell us that of the 30 victories just HOW MANY were in CRITICAL GAMES? Finals, must win games etc...the answer : ALMOST NONE, IF ANY AT ALL!
Here's a quick FYI : we played 20-odd finals on the trot & lost all of them...Sacin played all of them - hmm, now wouldn't you want your "best batsman in the world" to do it for you when it really matters ? Like the Dravids, Pontings, Waughs, Richards, etc always do...fact remains that withe exception of Sharjah '98 Sachin HAS NEVER done it for us when we need him to. And as a comparison, think back to all the important victories that India has had in the past 7-8 years : you'll see that a certain Mr. Rahul Dravid has always showed up in those games ! Ah, and how we keep reaping accolades on Sachin, simply a passenger since the WC 03...
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by nitika mangal on Apr 05, 2007 10:51 PM Permalink
Very True!!! And as regards the Sharjah win, it was only coz he had promised his wife that he wud bring home the Man of the Series award car!
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by S on Apr 05, 2007 11:00 PM Permalink
AND SO HAVE YOU PUT your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH..or whosevers..the fact is no one stepped up ..not even your Mr.Dravid...you mentioned " Here's a quick FYI : we played 20-odd finals on the trot & lost all of them...Sacin played all of them - hmm, now wouldn't you want your "best batsman in the world" to do it for you when it really matters ? Like the Dravids, Pontings, Waughs, Richards, etc always do...fact remains that with the exception of Sharjah '98 Sachin HAS NEVER done it for us when we need him to" well while praising your fav Dravid you forgot one thing ..that even dravid was part of that very same team ..which ...failed to win finals.. so yea he showed up just like tendulkar..bottom line nobody stepped up.. they all lack mental toughness or whatever
RE:Tendulkar a matchwinner?
by Paddu Iyer on Apr 05, 2007 10:07 PM Permalink
And if you look at his statistics at Home and Abroad, you will see that the bulk of his average comes from Home matches or closer to sub-continent.
