I am not very much religiously inclined but however compeletely disagree with idol worhsip. If you go by idol worship - man created god, better worship the man who created the idol, than the idol created by that man. Tell me which was the first idol of mankind and why it was created?? Was it sent by god??
RE:@Kris Iyer
by Kris iyer on Jun 05, 2008 02:00 PM Permalink
I tried to respond last evening. But rediff.com kept swallowing up my messages. There was even a "Reported for abuse" notice!! I can understand some individuals unable to accept "idol" worship. You can be a pious person without ever worshipping an idol. Many Indian "Sanyasis" do not pray at a temple daily. Even with Hindus, one cannot produce any "idol" of a male figure in a dhoti or a female one in a saree or a child and ask them to worship them. Every Hindu "idol" has a long tradition of appearance (the Siva, Vishnu, Ganesh, Krishna figures must be recognisable as such) narrations, stories, qualities about each "Vigraha" = "Established victorious owner of this House (temple)". It is only that BACKGROUND to each "Vigraha" (idol) that Hindu worshippers think of. ORIGIN OF IDOL WORSHIP: Earliest humans could not understand "death". They thought that the dead-person had "gone to another place". Food and drinks were left for the dead near the burial place. IDOLS WERE ALSO MADE OF THEM, to "guide them" !! I should imagine, those would have been the very first idols. Archaeologists say early humans worshipped a Mother Goddess, sometimes called a "Fertility Goddess". Childless couples, even now, pray at Devi or Santhoshi Ma or Amman temples. In France, they dug out an "idol" of this Goddess, dating it around 2,000 B.C. What is unjust is to accuse "idol worshippers" of worshipping the "Devil" and NOT GOD. That is both wrong and untrue.
RE:RE:@Kris Iyer
by JGN on Jun 08, 2008 08:10 PM Permalink
Mr.Kris iyer, there is no need to write reams and reams justifying idol worship. The ancient Sages of our Country believed that the Universe originated from a single primal principle called "SAT" and in whatever way we (Pl don't include me in this category)worship, the same ultimately reaches the said Primal Principle (SAT). That is the reason for the religious tolerance of the majority in our Country. Worshipping Jesus or Allah is also another form of worship for them.
The natives of India did not attack those who came to our shores for propagating their religion but allowed them to freely practice their religion.
RE:@Kris Iyer
by RightSaid Fred on Jun 06, 2008 11:57 AM Permalink
Just because an idol from 2000 BC was found, it does not justify Idol worship. Hindus must follow the ideals of Swami Dayanand Saraswati, who rightly rejected idols and talked sense.
RE:@Kris Iyer
by Kris iyer on Jun 06, 2008 06:40 PM Permalink
Rightsaid Fred, One can see your preference. Arya Samajists and Sikhs avoided "idol" worship after centuries of hearing Islamic criticisms against idol worship. That is fine. I was answering the question by lakubo above, "When was the first idol used or the first idol of mankind?" The French find may interest him, I thought. Majority of Hindus are not going to give up "Idol worship". You wd see this as a mistake. But, majority of Hindus would continue to lead good lives, become leading businessmen and businesswomen, get Ph.Ds and so on, although they continue with Idol worship at home or at a Mandhir. That is NOT going to hold them back. Idol worship is NOT turning them into stones!! As I have explained, it is not as negative as you guys think it is. What is it to you? You can carry on without idols, face an empty wall or the symbold "AUM", Hindus do not mind. They are NOT telling you, "You should worship idols, like us". They leave you alone, you should do the same with them.
RE:@Kris Iyer
by Cricket s on Jun 06, 2008 11:14 PM Permalink
How does it matter if one sees God thru an idol or one sees a God without an idol? Your way is not the ONLY way...just remember. Let people have freedom on how they want to pray and worship.
Re: RE:@Kris Iyer
by Calspadeaspade on Jan 09, 2009 07:29 PM Permalink
Whty should anybody justify any mode of worship if it does not harm any one. I can understand if you are critisising animal sacrifice which is barbaric. What is wrong with an idol. It makes worshipping a pleasant activity.It is easy for people to concentrate theirdevotion to God.
Re: @Kris Iyer
by Calspadeaspade on Jan 09, 2009 07:26 PM Permalink
What is the big deal about not worshipping idol. It is like revering a flag that represents a country. The same way God is projected on to the idol.
RE:@Kris Iyer
by JGN on Jun 08, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
Lakubo, pl download and read "The Necessity of Atheism" by Dr. D.M. Brooks available freely at "Project Gutenberg" to know more about the "noble deeds" of those who do not wroship idols!!
RE:@Kris Iyer
by Krishnan Hariharan on Jun 05, 2008 03:08 AM Permalink
There are different aspects to mental energy (i am separating them for the sake of clarity)
1. Emotional 2. Spiritual 3. Psychological
In the idols there are many varieties. The Emotional variety is the one that is prayed to by the Hare Krsna movement. The object reminds the *seer* of God. God is not stone, God is represented by the stone. It is a focal point, like the target for the arrow.
Spiritual variety is like that manifested by the Shiva Lingas, Saligramas, precious stones and such objects. These have vibrations of a very very subtle frequency and energised by some potent beings (or Siddhas) which harmonize with the energies inside the individual and elevate them. The lingam shape or form stores this energy for many millennia (YUGAS)
The psychological variety is those that are installed for welfare of people and often are accompanied by social service.
In all the cases, it is not to *insult God* that these are installed, but to *elevate the individual* to higher realms of the mind. So if one spends time talking, gossipping, looking at ladies etc. in the temple it is simply wastage of subtle energies. That is SIN. Because u can do these things outside the temple right?
But now, in India, a lot of people are asking us questions about idol worship. This is bad. Who gave them the moral right? It is our land. They have no business to come here and question our practices. If they are irritated seeing temples (which we consider holy), they can SCRAM!
RE:@Kris Iyer
by JGN on Jun 08, 2008 08:00 PM Permalink
Lakubo, put the words "animal worship" in any internet search engine and read the result to know how the system of worship originatedf.
Paraphrasing a sentence in the Bible, we could safely say that "man created god in his own image".
Who does not worship idols? The Christians worship the idols of Jesus on Cross, Mother Mary with infnat jesus in her hands, Mother Mary with infant jesus in hand with Joseph, numerous saints, etc. The Muslims worhsip the photograph of Kaaba and also at various Dargahs, the Sikhs worship their holy book (Gurugrandh Saheb), for the Buddhists who really do not beleive in any god, Gautama the Buddha himself has now become their god. Each and every religion in the world (at present there are more than 2000 the word over) indulge in some sort of Idol worship. If you detest idol worship, some others detest worship in any form. So it is the individuals choice.
The Indian gods are not as jealous as the West Asian gods (Yaveh, Jeshus and Allah) each telling the respective believers not to worship any other god. The Indian gods are more democratic and have no problem when some other gods (even the jealous West Asian ones) are worshipped!!!!!!
RE:@Kris Iyer
by Kris iyer on Jun 09, 2008 07:24 AM Permalink
Dear JGN, I admit my posts here turned out to be long - it is like an essay. Most of the posts are short and abusive!!! You are one of the exceptions!! BUT I have dealt with THREE major criticisms that missionaries of the two middle-east religions use against Hinduism. Your reference to "SATH" is correct. That being the only Truth, it simply IS. The rest being impermanent - "Maya". The concern over conversion is about "change of culture" along with religion. New converts move away from Indian culture in a number of small ways. In one case I heard about, a young Tamil girl was learning "Bharata Natyam". Due to some marital problems between her parents, the father converted to Christianity. He forced his minor daughter to give up on learning "Hindu Natyam", forbade her to sing "Hindu songs" and the use of Bindhi on her forehead. Needless-to-say he changed her original Hindu name also. His motive might have been to annoy his wife and all her relations - all traditional Hindus.
But, you see cultural allegiances change with change of religion. V.S. Naipaul says in his book, "Journey Amongst the Believers" [ an account of Pakistani society ] that although the Indian sub-continent has so many magnificent mountains, rivers and pilgrimage centres, along with so many Rishis, Sages and their profound teachings, to the muslims of the sub-continent, the "desert sands of distant Arabia alone are sacred" !! A telling remark.
