RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:03 AM Permalink
Sameer, the first statement doesnt make sense. He cannot be ouside the creation as this creation is endless from the logical point of view. He cannot be outside because of the fact that that ouside has to be created forst before he can start residing in that outside.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:07 AM Permalink
that is true if you assume that everything is bound by space and time. If not then there is a term called self existent i.e an existence not bound by space.
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:08 AM Permalink
If that state exists, is is perfectly ok to assume that he minifested in the creation.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:11 AM Permalink
yes that I agree. The t=0 state before when time and space began is the existence that we are talking about i.e singularity.
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:14 AM Permalink
If you are talking about t=0, it is t=sometime for HIM . You are bringing in time for GOD. Remember he is not bound by time.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:15 AM Permalink
a thing like t=0 cannot make sense .. coz a lame man like me can ask what was there before t=0 ... t=-1?
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:13 AM Permalink
"He cannot be ouside the creation as this creation is endless from the logical point of view. " ... constructing my house from scratch while standing inside the house?? ... samjha nahi :)
RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:10 AM Permalink
.. think abt this ... God always existed ..that is eternal and we too always existed !
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:14 AM Permalink
Unfortunately the always existed is the problem. Everything as humans we know has a begining and an end. Thats why you have to go back to t=0 to reach a state called begining.the begining could have been a spirit without space or time what we call God.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:15 AM Permalink
If you are talking about t=0, it is t=sometime for HIM . You are bringing in time for GOD. Remember he is not bound by time.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:18 AM Permalink
Correct what I meant was t=0 for the observable universe ,before that it is a spirit not bound by space or time called God.It's not a physical form. At some point time began t=0
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:26 AM Permalink
before t=0 , God is a spirit visualize it like a ghost that has no physical form and does not exist in space or time.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:20 AM Permalink
"It's not a physical form." ... so God is giving a form to Himself ... its nice to think so ..concept sounds fragile though :)
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:23 AM Permalink
What was GOD doing before this t=0? When you said GOD created, you are bringing in time . Because the process itself is timebound. So, external GOD of no timebound, no space bound doesnt make sense.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:18 AM Permalink
may be we are talking same ... the point is if I'm constructing a house its a wierd to say i'm standing inside the house and constructing it... creation and creator aka God have to be seperate .. makes sense ..atleast for me :)
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:21 AM Permalink
In the house example.. you started constructing at t=0,i.e the universe began , what scientist call sinularity, before that you existed in a non physical form not bound by space or time called spirit or God.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:23 AM Permalink
God has to be visaulized as a spirit a spirit is not physical i.e like a ghost it exists but cannot be touched or felt of is bound by space or time
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 07:11 AM Permalink
No there will be a time when the universe will end or die correct .. but then the spirit always exist not bound by time or sace.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:33 AM Permalink
Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist ****yet***** ... you mean there is something superior to God who the 'Spirit' and pushed into the limits of space and time? ... #### when you are attributing time factor to God know one thing that T can again become ZERO .. so with this concept we are annihilating God :)
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:37 AM Permalink
"Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist yet."
So you mean there exists something Greater than GOD .. which pushed God ..the initial Spirit into the bounds of Time.... BTW remember one thing .. when we attach time with anything .. there has to be a beginning and end .. that implying there will be a day when God will dye !!
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:34 AM Permalink
...mmm sorry ... God is not Atma ... God is Parama-Atma :) ..only one.. individual souls ..we... are Atma.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:26 AM Permalink
"God has to be visaulized as a spirit?" ... Why? .. are we not imposing limitations that way?
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:29 AM Permalink
God is what hindus call Atma i.e a form of spirit not bound by space or time, tahts why its difficult to comprehend as we exist in sapce and time and our thinking is limited by it.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:27 AM Permalink
Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist yet.
Have you heard the term Holy spirit that some christians use or hindus use?
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:20 AM Permalink
Your are talking about a house which cannot produce itslef. But I am talking about the living thigs that can reproduce and dont need external GOD.
RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:50 AM Permalink
i've one at home with those 5 elements waiting :D.. so ttyl ... btw .. after long time i got good folks on rediff to discuss with :) ...keep your inquisitiveness alive ... trust me ...there is LOT to know and ofcourse un-know !!!!
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:28 AM Permalink
Well living beings need body which is composed of 5 elements of nature .. and to maintain that body we need to continue maintaining the balance of these 5 elements !.. so we are always dependent of the nature..aka creation ..dont we?
