In the Soviet Union, people were looked after from birth to death by the state. Education, housing, medical support, electricity, gas, water, childcare, pensions for old age were all free for everyone. Transport and basic foods( egg, bread and milk) have nominal price held constant since 1929 until 1989. There was no unemployment, no beggers, no homeless people.
Everyother East European countries, even Cuba, had the same system.
That is the system the LEFT in India wants for the Indian people, so what is wrong with that???
Or do you want Indian people to search for food from the dustbin, die without medical treatment, uneducated, living in Jhopris, for the next 100 years???
RE:What do you want???
by Tamal Das on Jun 10, 2008 02:16 PM Permalink
That is the system the LEFT in India wants for the Indian people, so what is wrong with that???
This is said by the LEFT to fooling their cader........only
RE:What do you want???
by Netra Maithun on Jun 10, 2008 04:23 PM Permalink
Dipak Bose, Get yourself checked up.... Your Adda theories doen not work in the world. The romance with communism is over and I hope that the allmighty gives you and your commie gangs understanding to grow up... You & ur Commie gang brought nothing but misery... A state, one the forefront in almost every sphare in india has benn ruined by the romance of Communism.... 30 years of stupidity is enough, don't you think???
If what you are saying is true, how come Communism collapsed all over the world? It collapsed because the Communists could not keep up subsidising everything from top to bottom - it came to a natural end.
Only ideal capitalism can save the world - but it does not exist anywhere. USA is not an example of Capitalism. In a proper capitalistic society pressure groups and lobbies have no place - USA is full of them. In a perfect capitalistic society only unfettered market forces dictate terms - not lobbies, Buildebergs, Windsor and other such cartels.
I like to compare Communism with disease - when one does not look after one's body disease sets in. Similarly when there are no perfect market forces in place, the natural outcome is Communism. After all, when one is forced to go hungry, one cannot think in terms of principles - Communistic ideology will appeal to that person. But in the final analysis Communism has no answer and is a failure.
RE:What do you want???
by Dipak Bose on Jun 10, 2008 02:52 PM Permalink
Balakrishnan: Communism has not collapsed because there was no communism, only socialism. Socialism has not collapsed but it was killed by people like Yeltsin who then stole all state properties to become multibillionaires to buy palaces all over the Western world, football clubs, and so on. If a good person gets robbed and killed is it his fault or the fault of the killer and robber?
Still you cannot show any alternative for the 80 percent of the people of India who are poor.
The likes of Yeltsin stepped in only because the Communism had collapsed by then. When the Romans lost control over the years and their empire collapsed, the hooligans moved in and finished the empire. In a no man's land only the muscle man can move in.
I still feel that if one can enforce a proper unfettered market economy, then that would be the way forward for our country, but, yes, I am doubtful that such a measure would be taken.
All I am trying to say is that Communism does not have a proper solution.
Jean Paul Sartre was a firm socialist to start with, but towards the end of his life, he said that if he has to choose between two evils - Capitalism and Communism - then he would tend to chose Capitalism.
We mortals have limitations. Perhaps that is the reason the exalted spiritualists leave all isms and retreat to Himalayas. But you and I cannot afford that luxury - hence we have to choose.
History has clearly shown that when free commerce is permitted, the country has progressed and the general well being of the masses follow. Typical examples are the reigns of Asoka, the Golden age of Guptas, times when Akbar ruled, etc. When the rulers follow a path in which they exercise raw power for their personal benefit, the populace languishes.
RE:What do you want???
by mahabodhi on Jun 10, 2008 10:55 PM Permalink
ANBalkrishanan Sartre went to Cuba in the '60s to meet Fidel Castro and spent a great deal of time philosophizing with Ernesto "Che" Guevara. After Guevara's death, Sartre would declare him: "Not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age" [2] and the "era's most perfect man."[3] Sartre would also compliment Che Guevara by professing that: "He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel.” [4 The discussion can be very long so for the time being thus for you !
What you have stated principally does not contradict what I have stated. I respect Sartre a lot. You may have read his plays and you would agree with me that they are highly thought provoking. His play named - FURIES- in particular is an outstanding master piece. His ideas on individualism and his particular way of describing existentialism are quite astounding - of course, he never termed his own ideas as existentialism, but nevertheless his ideas have been categorised as existentialism by the philosophical community.
Still, towards his end of life he was quite disillusioned with Socialism.
If you read my posting above you would clearly understand that my views are that Communism or Socialism is a natural outcome in an improperly run society - you are watching it occurring in Venezuela. But I am also firm in my conviction that Communism does not have an answer to the problem. They come down with lots of fanfare resulting in purges and instability, but with no positive outcome. See what happened in Cuba - the same Castro who spoke so much about freedom and equality has delivered neither. No communist country ever allows individual thought process so necessary for a free mind to exist - the thought processes are controlled by propaganda and mind control. See for yourself the state Cuba is in now - the populace languishing and impoverished.
Che Guevara was conveniently sent off by Castro because he was a threat to Castro.
RE:RE:What do you want???
by A N Balakrishnan on Jun 10, 2008 03:33 PM Permalink
Dear Mr.Dipak Bose,
The likes of Yeltsin stepped in only because the Communism had collapsed by then. When the Romans lost control over the years and their empire collapsed, the hooligans moved in and finished the empire. In a no man's land only the muscle man can move in.
I still feel that if one can enforce a proper unfettered market economy, then that would be the way forward for our country, but, yes, I am doubtful that such a measure would be taken.
All I am trying to say is that Communism does not have a proper solution.
Jean Paul Sartre was a firm socialist to start with, but towards the end of his life, he said that if he has to choose between two evils - Capitalism and Communism - then he would tend to chose Capitalism.
We mortals have limitations. Perhaps that is the reason the exalted spiritualists leave all isms and retreat to Himalayas. But you and I cannot afford that luxury - hence we have to choose.
History has clearly shown that when free commerce is permitted, the country has progressed and the general well being of the masses follow. Typical examples are the reigns of Asoka, the Golden age of Guptas, times when Akbar ruled, etc. When the rulers follow a path in which they exercise raw power for their personal benefit, the populace languishes.
RE:What do you want???
by Anil Gopinathan Nair on Jun 11, 2008 07:37 AM Permalink
Becuase of this overspending , russian economy crumbled and now even scientists are doing part time work, their wives, sisters are visiting other countries for flesh trade, my dear comrade, do you want the same thing to happen here
RE:What do you want???
by Dipak Bose on Jun 11, 2008 01:42 PM Permalink
If you have been to the Soviet Union in 1989, you would not say that Socialism has collapsed. It was still a very highly developed country with no visible problem at all. It was destroyed by very evil people who stole everything subsequently. Application of Capitalism on the former Soviet Union since 1991 mas made the people very poor but only a few corrupt politicians officers, just like in India, became very rich. This is capitalism.
West Bengal was ruined in 1947, when its population increased by 400 percent but there was no help from Nehru, instead Nehru asked the Hindu refugees to go back to Pakistan.
Then everything was shifted away one after another. Industries in W.Bengal could not get any permit/quota/license/contracts, so they went bankrupt one after another. Air-India does not touch Calcutta since 1967.
RE:What do you want???
by Prem Mohan on Jun 15, 2008 12:00 PM Permalink
1. I was also in the Soviet Union in 1989. What you saw was only the facade put up by the communist party. Do you remember the special stores for party members (bereiozkas)?
2. The Soviet Union, with all its land mass, could not grow enough food to feed its people and had to import foodgrains from the capitalist countries for all its 70 years. Do you remember that?
3. The Soviet Union was, and Russia is, a thirld world country with atom bombs. Russia survives by exporting oil and gas and importing finished products. Where are its own industries?
4. Air India has always touched down in Calcutta and continues to do so today. But why should an airline come when the state has abolished all industry and there are no passengers?
5. "Step-motherly neglect by the centre" : This was a convenient slogan to make the people believe in an external enemy. Have you seen the amount of PSU investment in Durgapur Steel Plant, MAMC, FCI, DVC and countless other projects. Much more than other states got. However, the communist government of West Bengal did not want private indusrry.
RE:What do you want???
by Dipak Bose on Jun 15, 2008 01:54 PM Permalink
Prem Mohan:
You are talking nonsense. The Soviet Union used to import food from Australia for the Far East, as it was chaper to do that than to supply the Far East from the European part of it. However, it could afford because of vast oil & gas and other natural resources. There was no poverty, or unemployment, homeless people, uneducated people as one can see in USA today. I am sure you have never been to the Soviet Union, but to new Russia perhaps, otherwise you cannot talk such rubbish.
Most industries were closed down in 1992 when capitalism was introduced and the Economists from USA/UK World Bank IMF advised new Russia to import, the economy was destroyed because of thse wrong advice. Air-India since 1966 never used to touch Calcutta, even today there is only one flight to London, which often does not work. Even Indian airlines flights are now replaced by highly expensive Jet airlines. Durgapur Steel plant was the compensation for shifting away the State Bank( then called Imperial Bank) from Calcutta to Bombay in 1955. MAMC was closed down many years ago, FCI is only for food distribution, it is not an industry. DVC was for Bihar, West Bengal has not benefitted from it but worse, due to it flood is a regular annual affair. There was no other big publec sector industries in West Bengal then. All private sector industries were destroyed during 1965-67 by the central government, as it refused to give any contract/ license/permit/import quota/foreign exchange
Only communist can run about barefooted and bare assed, without a roof over their heads, where there is only one apple for two and nevertheless cry out that they are in paradise!
